I'm a huge supporter of referendums on issues that are deemed necessary for resolve by the public. (Separation of Quebec for instance) It shows leadership when the gov't can give the decision back to the people once in awhile and admit they need some help from the public to solve a problem. As far as cost? Doesn't bother me. It's the cost of business to run a country. It takes an incredible amount of resources to ensure every citizen in the country you lead is aware of and given the opportunity to vote in a referendum.
I completely agree with both of you that the way their salaries and benefits are self-determined is an absurd situation, though PJ Soul nails it that they need to keep such things at a level that will attract capable candidates to run for office.
Personally I'm a fan of more "direct" democracy (through referendums and the like), and while the costs may be prohibitive right now, I'll suggest technology may (soon?) make such things more feasible (as long as proper safeguards against fraud can be enacted as well). Whether or not the populace are reasonable enough be given such a responsibility remains a point of debate as well (I'm not so sure given the current hyper-partisan political climate).
We are more than capable, it's the elitists who don't think we are. As far as salaries go, there high now, when are we going to attract candidates that are qualified...
Well, I do my best to be non-elitist, but I also firmly believe that the mob (the electorate) are inherently selfish and stupid (as a whole, not as individuals), and think we've still got some ways to go until the masses can really be trusted with such responsibilities (especially in the areas PJ Soul highlighted above). Part of why Ontario's suffered 13+ years under the Liberals is Dalton was the only one promising everyone an extra day off work (the laughable Family Day).
It would also be nice if better candidates were brought in to run for office, though I suspect that may have as much to do with the way the parties are set up (and the way they function within the system).
"The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
I'm a huge supporter of referendums on issues that are deemed necessary for resolve by the public. (Separation of Quebec for instance) It shows leadership when the gov't can give the decision back to the people once in awhile and admit they need some help from the public to solve a problem. As far as cost? Doesn't bother me. It's the cost of business to run a country. It takes an incredible amount of resources to ensure every citizen in the country you lead is aware of and given the opportunity to vote in a referendum.
I think a referendum can be appropriate, and yes, the separation referendum was one of those. But to have constant referendums for all kinds of things on a regular basis? No. It's just not practical, nor do I think it wouod enhance anyone's life.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I completely agree with both of you that the way their salaries and benefits are self-determined is an absurd situation, though PJ Soul nails it that they need to keep such things at a level that will attract capable candidates to run for office.
Personally I'm a fan of more "direct" democracy (through referendums and the like), and while the costs may be prohibitive right now, I'll suggest technology may (soon?) make such things more feasible (as long as proper safeguards against fraud can be enacted as well). Whether or not the populace are reasonable enough be given such a responsibility remains a point of debate as well (I'm not so sure given the current hyper-partisan political climate).
We are more than capable, it's the elitists who don't think we are. As far as salaries go, there high now, when are we going to attract candidates that are qualified...
Well, I do my best to be non-elitist, but I also firmly believe that the mob (the electorate) are inherently selfish and stupid (as a whole, not as individuals), and think we've still got some ways to go until the masses can really be trusted with such responsibilities (especially in the areas PJ Soul highlighted above). Part of why Ontario's suffered 13+ years under the Liberals is Dalton was the only one promising everyone an extra day off work (the laughable Family Day).
It would also be nice if better candidates were brought in to run for office, though I suspect that may have as much to do with the way the parties are set up (and the way they function within the system).
When I say elitist I'm referring more to the politicians, no one here comes across as elitist...
But when I read that politicians like May of the GP doesn't think we should have a referendum on changing the electoral system, that's elitist. What's makes her more qualified than any of us, and now it looks like Trudeau is waffling on that.
Of boy, I was hoping never to hear Dalton McGuintys name ever again...lol, now a poll indicates that many think Wynne will step down, she's polling at 14% in personal popularity...fun times in ontario
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I completely agree with both of you that the way their salaries and benefits are self-determined is an absurd situation, though PJ Soul nails it that they need to keep such things at a level that will attract capable candidates to run for office.
Personally I'm a fan of more "direct" democracy (through referendums and the like), and while the costs may be prohibitive right now, I'll suggest technology may (soon?) make such things more feasible (as long as proper safeguards against fraud can be enacted as well). Whether or not the populace are reasonable enough be given such a responsibility remains a point of debate as well (I'm not so sure given the current hyper-partisan political climate).
We are more than capable, it's the elitists who don't think we are. As far as salaries go, there high now, when are we going to attract candidates that are qualified...
Well, I do my best to be non-elitist, but I also firmly believe that the mob (the electorate) are inherently selfish and stupid (as a whole, not as individuals), and think we've still got some ways to go until the masses can really be trusted with such responsibilities (especially in the areas PJ Soul highlighted above). Part of why Ontario's suffered 13+ years under the Liberals is Dalton was the only one promising everyone an extra day off work (the laughable Family Day).
It would also be nice if better candidates were brought in to run for office, though I suspect that may have as much to do with the way the parties are set up (and the way they function within the system).
When I say elitist I'm referring more to the politicians, no one here comes across as elitist...
But when I read that politicians like May of the GP doesn't think we should have a referendum on changing the electoral system, that's elitist. What's makes her more qualified than any of us, and now it looks like Trudeau is waffling on that.
Of boy, I was hoping never to hear Dalton McGuintys name ever again...lol, now a poll indicates that many think Wynne will step down, she's polling at 14% in personal popularity...fun times in ontario
Sorry, didn't mean to imply you were saying anyone here's an elitist, didn't take it that way myself. Just wanted to clarify my own views before saying something that could easily be read that way (the mob being selfish and stupid), lol. Unfortunately for our collective memories, I had to raise the spectre of Dalton as a prime example, I'll try not to name he-who-shall-not-be-named again, lol.
I completely agree that IF electoral reform moves forward it pretty much needs to be put to a referendum, but Trudeau's pretty much said since taking office that he doesn't want to hold one.
As I said above, I'd much rather they look into recall legislation, but no self-serving politician (read: most, in my opinion) want to consider such a thing, though I firmly believe safeguards could be put in place to prevent abuses of such a process. I suspect it might even produce a more civil atmosphere in politics, and give people a viable recourse in situations like Rob Ford, Ontario's Liberals or the "evil Harperites". How to get actual traction on such a thing is beyond me (especially with Hockey Night on the tv and Zeppelin blasting, lol).
"The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
I completely agree with both of you that the way their salaries and benefits are self-determined is an absurd situation, though PJ Soul nails it that they need to keep such things at a level that will attract capable candidates to run for office.
Personally I'm a fan of more "direct" democracy (through referendums and the like), and while the costs may be prohibitive right now, I'll suggest technology may (soon?) make such things more feasible (as long as proper safeguards against fraud can be enacted as well). Whether or not the populace are reasonable enough be given such a responsibility remains a point of debate as well (I'm not so sure given the current hyper-partisan political climate).
We are more than capable, it's the elitists who don't think we are. As far as salaries go, there high now, when are we going to attract candidates that are qualified...
Well, I do my best to be non-elitist, but I also firmly believe that the mob (the electorate) are inherently selfish and stupid (as a whole, not as individuals), and think we've still got some ways to go until the masses can really be trusted with such responsibilities (especially in the areas PJ Soul highlighted above). Part of why Ontario's suffered 13+ years under the Liberals is Dalton was the only one promising everyone an extra day off work (the laughable Family Day).
It would also be nice if better candidates were brought in to run for office, though I suspect that may have as much to do with the way the parties are set up (and the way they function within the system).
When I say elitist I'm referring more to the politicians, no one here comes across as elitist...
But when I read that politicians like May of the GP doesn't think we should have a referendum on changing the electoral system, that's elitist. What's makes her more qualified than any of us, and now it looks like Trudeau is waffling on that.
Of boy, I was hoping never to hear Dalton McGuintys name ever again...lol, now a poll indicates that many think Wynne will step down, she's polling at 14% in personal popularity...fun times in ontario
Sorry, didn't mean to imply you were saying anyone here's an elitist, didn't take it that way myself. Just wanted to clarify my own views before saying something that could easily be read that way (the mob being selfish and stupid), lol. Unfortunately for our collective memories, I had to raise the spectre of Dalton as a prime example, I'll try not to name he-who-shall-not-be-named again, lol.
I completely agree that IF electoral reform moves forward it pretty much needs to be put to a referendum, but Trudeau's pretty much said since taking office that he doesn't want to hold one.
As I said above, I'd much rather they look into recall legislation, but no self-serving politician (read: most, in my opinion) want to consider such a thing, though I firmly believe safeguards could be put in place to prevent abuses of such a process. I suspect it might even produce a more civil atmosphere in politics, and give people a viable recourse in situations like Rob Ford, Ontario's Liberals or the "evil Harperites". How to get actual traction on such a thing is beyond me (especially with Hockey Night on the tv and Zeppelin blasting, lol).
I agree about Zeppelin and hockey night, however tonight was about college football and penn state shocking Ohio state, as a wolverine fan that was great.
Yes I would love recall legislation, your right politicians would never put that in place. Referendums are used quite regularly in Switzerland and work really well and I've heard they have one of the best democracies on earth. Personally I believe all we do is elect our dictators, the worst part of our political system is the so called majority, when's the last time a government in Canada has achieved a true majority...usually around 40% of the vote gives a party a so called majority, then you factor in the amount of eligible voters who vote it's usually under 25% of eligible voters who put the government in place. I would like proportional representation, doubt we'll see it, because PM sunny ways doesn't want to lose the power he holds...why I figure the flip flop is starting. I find it funny that his policies are not much dlefferent than Harper, or better yet he's essentially doing as Harper would, yet his polling numbers are good ... so my guess is he has nice hair and that got him elected...hahahaha.
Anyways I really like the recall legislation idea, could be put to a referendum...hahaha. I support referendums, always will...
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I should state that I even agreed with McGuinty when he called the referendum on electoral reform in Ontario, it failed and status quo remained, but I'm fine with it because the people said no...
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Just in case anyone is interested... teen killer, Kelly Ellard, is pregnant while serving a life sentence. The situation is calling for a policy review regarding inmates and visitations.
The 'life sentence', as demonstrated in this case, isn't actually a sentence for life in Canada (that's just tough talk). Many think she will be released in 2017 when she comes up for parole again. Reena Virk's family isn't going to fight the parole applications anymore.
The father? Another convict currently incarcerated.
Just in case anyone is interested... teen killer, Kelly Ellard, is pregnant while serving a life sentence. The situation is calling for a policy review regarding inmates and visitations.
The 'life sentence', as demonstrated in this case, isn't actually a sentence for life in Canada (that's just tough talk). Many think she will be released in 2017 when she comes up for parole again. Reena Virk's family isn't going to fight the parole applications anymore.
The father? Another convict currently incarcerated.
Just in case anyone is interested... teen killer, Kelly Ellard, is pregnant while serving a life sentence. The situation is calling for a policy review regarding inmates and visitations.
The 'life sentence', as demonstrated in this case, isn't actually a sentence for life in Canada (that's just tough talk). Many think she will be released in 2017 when she comes up for parole again. Reena Virk's family isn't going to fight the parole applications anymore.
The father? Another convict currently incarcerated.
Yeah, really disgusting. I had no idea that she was allowed enough freedom for this to happen, with a fellow criminal no less. And wtf is going to happen to the baby??? Is the system going to actually let this sociopath raise it but releasing her at her next parole hearing?? Some are talking about how they hope her having a baby will make her rethink her ways... Uh, yeah right! She'll simply fuck up another life - her kid's. I will be horrified if she is allowed out of prison to raise this poor baby.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Just in case anyone is interested... teen killer, Kelly Ellard, is pregnant while serving a life sentence. The situation is calling for a policy review regarding inmates and visitations.
The 'life sentence', as demonstrated in this case, isn't actually a sentence for life in Canada (that's just tough talk). Many think she will be released in 2017 when she comes up for parole again. Reena Virk's family isn't going to fight the parole applications anymore.
The father? Another convict currently incarcerated.
Yeah, really disgusting. I had no idea that she was allowed enough freedom for this to happen, with a fellow criminal no less. And wtf is going to happen to the baby??? Is the system going to actually let this sociopath raise it but releasing her at her next parole hearing?? Some are talking about how they hope her having a baby will make her rethink her ways... Uh, yeah right! She'll simply fuck up another life - her kid's. I will be horrified if she is allowed out of prison to raise this poor baby.
I'm not overly up on the prison system ... it seems to me I thought some female prisons were equipped for the possibility of a pregnancy and particular wards for these types of cases, but I believe it was only allowed until the baby was beyond the breastfeeding stage...but this privilege could be reserved for minimum security institutions...
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Just in case anyone is interested... teen killer, Kelly Ellard, is pregnant while serving a life sentence. The situation is calling for a policy review regarding inmates and visitations.
The 'life sentence', as demonstrated in this case, isn't actually a sentence for life in Canada (that's just tough talk). Many think she will be released in 2017 when she comes up for parole again. Reena Virk's family isn't going to fight the parole applications anymore.
The father? Another convict currently incarcerated.
Yeah, really disgusting. I had no idea that she was allowed enough freedom for this to happen, with a fellow criminal no less. And wtf is going to happen to the baby??? Is the system going to actually let this sociopath raise it but releasing her at her next parole hearing?? Some are talking about how they hope her having a baby will make her rethink her ways... Uh, yeah right! She'll simply fuck up another life - her kid's. I will be horrified if she is allowed out of prison to raise this poor baby.
I'm not overly up on the prison system ... it seems to me I thought some female prisons were equipped for the possibility of a pregnancy and particular wards for these types of cases, but I believe it was only allowed until the baby was beyond the breastfeeding stage...but this privilege could be reserved for minimum security institutions...
Yes, there are at least some women's prisons set up for this to that the babies can breastfeed and bond with their mothers when they are very young, but as you say, babies can't be raised in prison long term. So my worry is that the parole board will release her so that she can be a mother.... And I don't think that it is at all safe to let her out of prison. The chick gets pregnant from a convicted gang member when she is in prison, just imagine who her friends will be on the outside. I can't see her becoming Suzie homemaker or a productive member of society at all. I think she is sociopath through and through. Hell, she might have actually done this on purpose specifically because she knows that pregnant women and young mothers are often given lenience.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Just in case anyone is interested... teen killer, Kelly Ellard, is pregnant while serving a life sentence. The situation is calling for a policy review regarding inmates and visitations.
The 'life sentence', as demonstrated in this case, isn't actually a sentence for life in Canada (that's just tough talk). Many think she will be released in 2017 when she comes up for parole again. Reena Virk's family isn't going to fight the parole applications anymore.
The father? Another convict currently incarcerated.
Yeah, really disgusting. I had no idea that she was allowed enough freedom for this to happen, with a fellow criminal no less. And wtf is going to happen to the baby??? Is the system going to actually let this sociopath raise it but releasing her at her next parole hearing?? Some are talking about how they hope her having a baby will make her rethink her ways... Uh, yeah right! She'll simply fuck up another life - her kid's. I will be horrified if she is allowed out of prison to raise this poor baby.
I'm not overly up on the prison system ... it seems to me I thought some female prisons were equipped for the possibility of a pregnancy and particular wards for these types of cases, but I believe it was only allowed until the baby was beyond the breastfeeding stage...but this privilege could be reserved for minimum security institutions...
Yes, there are at least some women's prisons set up for this to that the babies can breastfeed and bond with their mothers when they are very young, but as you say, babies can't be raised in prison long term. So my worry is that the parole board will release her so that she can be a mother.... And I don't think that it is at all safe to let her out of prison. The chick gets pregnant from a convicted gang member when she is in prison, just imagine who her friends will be on the outside. I can't see her becoming Suzie homemaker or a productive member of society at all. I think she is sociopath through and through. Hell, she might have actually done this on purpose specifically because she knows that pregnant women and young mothers are often given lenience.
She should serve her full term, did not realize she was coming up for parole so soon ... mother with baby, what are the odds the parole board keep her locked up?
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Just in case anyone is interested... teen killer, Kelly Ellard, is pregnant while serving a life sentence. The situation is calling for a policy review regarding inmates and visitations.
The 'life sentence', as demonstrated in this case, isn't actually a sentence for life in Canada (that's just tough talk). Many think she will be released in 2017 when she comes up for parole again. Reena Virk's family isn't going to fight the parole applications anymore.
The father? Another convict currently incarcerated.
Yeah, really disgusting. I had no idea that she was allowed enough freedom for this to happen, with a fellow criminal no less. And wtf is going to happen to the baby??? Is the system going to actually let this sociopath raise it but releasing her at her next parole hearing?? Some are talking about how they hope her having a baby will make her rethink her ways... Uh, yeah right! She'll simply fuck up another life - her kid's. I will be horrified if she is allowed out of prison to raise this poor baby.
I'm not overly up on the prison system ... it seems to me I thought some female prisons were equipped for the possibility of a pregnancy and particular wards for these types of cases, but I believe it was only allowed until the baby was beyond the breastfeeding stage...but this privilege could be reserved for minimum security institutions...
Yes, there are at least some women's prisons set up for this to that the babies can breastfeed and bond with their mothers when they are very young, but as you say, babies can't be raised in prison long term. So my worry is that the parole board will release her so that she can be a mother.... And I don't think that it is at all safe to let her out of prison. The chick gets pregnant from a convicted gang member when she is in prison, just imagine who her friends will be on the outside. I can't see her becoming Suzie homemaker or a productive member of society at all. I think she is sociopath through and through. Hell, she might have actually done this on purpose specifically because she knows that pregnant women and young mothers are often given lenience.
She should serve her full term, did not realize she was coming up for parole so soon ... mother with baby, what are the odds the parole board keep her locked up?
I think she's been up for parole for a long time. She just hasn't been granted it yet. Yup, this is something new for her to present to the board... pretty clever I suppose. God I hate that psycho. She's just the worst.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
she should be kept locked up and her daughter put in foster care, or with family if suitable/available. you don't let out a convicted killer (or any convict, really) early because they managed to get knocked up.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
she should be kept locked up and her daughter put in foster care, or with family if suitable/available. you don't let out a convicted killer (or any convict, really) early because they managed to get knocked up.
No, but I find myself just assuming that is exactly what the parole board will do because I have no faith in it. On the other hand, maybe they will use their brains and look at this pregnancy as a reason why they absolutely should NOT let her out. I mean, to me, getting knocked up with a convicted gang member while you are in prison is the definition of being a really terrible and irresponsible decision-maker and a rotten human being. Can you imagine having this woman as your mother??? Talk about humiliating.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I think... if past history has revealed anything... parole boards in Canada are very eager to release people convicted of horrible crimes.
In all fairness... this crime was committed by a 15 year old. Of all the cold blooded, ruthless, sadistic pieces of sh*t parole boards have rubber stamped for parole... she is actually one candidate I could see giving parole given her status as a youth offender at the time of the crime.
Don't get me wrong... I'm not feeling sorry for her in prison by any stretch of the imagination. I'm saying Canadian parole boards have given the benefit of the doubt to much worse.
I think... if past history has revealed anything... parole boards in Canada are very eager to release people convicted of horrible crimes.
In all fairness... this crime was committed by a 15 year old. Of all the cold blooded, ruthless, sadistic pieces of sh*t parole boards have rubber stamped for parole... she is actually one candidate I could see giving parole given her status as a youth offender at the time of the crime.
Don't get me wrong... I'm not feeling sorry for her in prison by any stretch of the imagination. I'm saying Canadian parole boards have given the benefit of the doubt to much worse.
The problem is her behaviour while in prison. Over the years I have read about plenty of reasons why this person poses a danger to society. She is fucked up.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I think... if past history has revealed anything... parole boards in Canada are very eager to release people convicted of horrible crimes.
In all fairness... this crime was committed by a 15 year old. Of all the cold blooded, ruthless, sadistic pieces of sh*t parole boards have rubber stamped for parole... she is actually one candidate I could see giving parole given her status as a youth offender at the time of the crime.
Don't get me wrong... I'm not feeling sorry for her in prison by any stretch of the imagination. I'm saying Canadian parole boards have given the benefit of the doubt to much worse.
The problem is her behaviour while in prison. Over the years I have read about plenty of reasons why this person poses a danger to society. She is fucked up.
I hear you.
From what I've come to understand... she's never admitted to fault- unlike her male companion that was extremely remorseful.
In the end, this fact will mean very little to- repeating myself- a very eager parole board anxious to parole her.
Well, we don't know what the parole board will decide in the future but we do know that they denied her request for day parole this May, so they don't seem that eager to let her out so far. She's not eligible to apply for day parole again until next May, at which point she will have had the baby and it will be five or so months old.
Since she is a federally sentenced inmate, she is potentially eligible to be transferred to a mother-child program, where a child can live with his/her mother until the age of 6. That would depend on the assessment of whether she might pose a risk to her child or not. As such, there is no particular pressure for the parole board to release her based on any argument around bonding with her child or taking on a care-taking role.
And from everything I've read, she seems to be at the least incredibly narcissistic and likely psychopathic. This is her quote to the parole board at her hearing in May 2016: "I’ve done everything and then some. Enough is enough,” she said. “It’s time for this to be done.”
Yup, that's remorse.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
Well, we don't know what the parole board will decide in the future but we do know that they denied her request for day parole this May, so they don't seem that eager to let her out so far. She's not eligible to apply for day parole again until next May, at which point she will have had the baby and it will be five or so months old.
Since she is a federally sentenced inmate, she is potentially eligible to be transferred to a mother-child program, where a child can live with his/her mother until the age of 6. That would depend on the assessment of whether she might pose a risk to her child or not. As such, there is no particular pressure for the parole board to release her based on any argument around bonding with her child or taking on a care-taking role.
And from everything I've read, she seems to be at the least incredibly narcissistic and likely psychopathic. This is her quote to the parole board at her hearing in May 2016: "I’ve done everything and then some. Enough is enough,” she said. “It’s time for this to be done.”
Yup, that's remorse.
Or some serious sociopathic game playing and lying. One of the two.
"It's time for this to be done?" Oh. Okay. Sure. Reena has long since decomposed. We should all just put the past in the past, eh? Have a nice life, Kelly. Try not to kill anyone again okay? And sorry we made you do such hard time for your mistake. It must have been so tough not able to have sex more than you did.
Who pressures parole boards into releasing inmates such as these? The overwhelming majority of people I know don't want violent offenders released back into the public so it isn't the majority of Canadians from my perspective. Is it a problem of overcrowding and creating space? Or is it an attitude where people wish to empathize with such offenders and offer them another opportunity to live like a normal human being?
I'm curious about the opinions of those on here about Warren Glowatski. He took full responsibility right from the start, participated in all programs available to him, including a restorative justice program with the Virks, was a model inmate in custody, and got full parole in 2010. I tried to do a quick search to find out what has happened with him since, and absolutely nothing came up, which suggests he hasn't been in any trouble, at least. So, do people think his release was justified, or should he have remained in custody?
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
Thirty - I'm not sure anyone pressures the parole board to release people. Most of the time the pressure is going the other way. And I suspect none of them empathize with Ellard, anyway, given her attitude and behaviour. There are probably other inmates that they empathize with in different circumstances and different attitudes. But they do have a mandate to make parole decisions based on risk to the public and whether the individual can reintegrate into society successfully and productively.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
Thirty - I'm not sure anyone pressures the parole board to release people. Most of the time the pressure is going the other way. And I suspect none of them empathize with Ellard, anyway, given her attitude and behaviour. There are probably other inmates that they empathize with in different circumstances and different attitudes. But they do have a mandate to make parole decisions based on risk to the public and whether the individual can reintegrate into society successfully and productively.
To which... their track record is a failing one. Recidivism rates are too high and the hopeful or optimistic event of a successful reintegration shouldn't trump public safety (rolling the dice and crossing your fingers at some innocent person's risk).
I'm curious about the opinions of those on here about Warren Glowatski. He took full responsibility right from the start, participated in all programs available to him, including a restorative justice program with the Virks, was a model inmate in custody, and got full parole in 2010. I tried to do a quick search to find out what has happened with him since, and absolutely nothing came up, which suggests he hasn't been in any trouble, at least. So, do people think his release was justified, or should he have remained in custody?
They were very young at the time. From all that I can recall from this case, Warren was extremely remorseful and apologetic. To me, given his age and relative level of stupidity and immaturity... he was a candidate to be released with a second chance. I know the family thought so too.
I don't think the family is 'feeling it' for Ellard.
If we're using recidivism rates as a measure of success (and of course we should), then by any way you look at it the Review Board process for managing individuals found Not Criminally Responsible by Reason of Mental Disorder is a raging success. Really low recidivism rates for any crimes, and the rates for recidivism in any violent crime (including minor assaults) is tiny. Just thought I'd put that out there
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
I misread your first submission. When you said: 'she seems to be at the least incredibly narcissistic and likely psychopathic'... I thought you were suggesting 'she seemed to be the least'... which I disagreed with.
I misread your first submission. When you said: 'she seems to be at the least incredibly narcissistic and likely psychopathic'... I thought you were suggesting 'she seemed to be the least'... which I disagreed with.
Sorry.
Glad you reread. I wouldn't want to be thought to hold the opinion you thought I did. From the limited amount I've read and heard, I personally see her as high risk.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
I'm curious about the opinions of those on here about Warren Glowatski. He took full responsibility right from the start, participated in all programs available to him, including a restorative justice program with the Virks, was a model inmate in custody, and got full parole in 2010. I tried to do a quick search to find out what has happened with him since, and absolutely nothing came up, which suggests he hasn't been in any trouble, at least. So, do people think his release was justified, or should he have remained in custody?
I think that rehabilitation is totally possible. People can turn their lives around, and I think there are ways to evaluate that their rehabilitation is real or not. This all depends on the crime of course. I don't think pedophiles can be rehabilitated, so I support court ordered chemical castration. I obviously don't think that psychopaths can be rehabilitated, so if they have committed violent crimes they should stay in prison forever. But yeah, rehabilitation of people without those kinds of anti-social personality disorders is possible and I support giving people a second chance if they reasonably show that they have changed and are no longer a danger to society. I just don't think for one second that Kelly Ellard is rehabilitated. I think she's a sociopath.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Comments
It shows leadership when the gov't can give the decision back to the people once in awhile and admit they need some help from the public to solve a problem.
As far as cost? Doesn't bother me.
It's the cost of business to run a country. It takes an incredible amount of resources to ensure every citizen in the country you lead is aware of and given the opportunity to vote in a referendum.
It would also be nice if better candidates were brought in to run for office, though I suspect that may have as much to do with the way the parties are set up (and the way they function within the system).
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
No not constant referendums just when the public feels like things aren't moving along with certain issues.
But when I read that politicians like May of the GP doesn't think we should have a referendum on changing the electoral system, that's elitist. What's makes her more qualified than any of us, and now it looks like Trudeau is waffling on that.
Of boy, I was hoping never to hear Dalton McGuintys name ever again...lol, now a poll indicates that many think Wynne will step down, she's polling at 14% in personal popularity...fun times in ontario
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I completely agree that IF electoral reform moves forward it pretty much needs to be put to a referendum, but Trudeau's pretty much said since taking office that he doesn't want to hold one.
As I said above, I'd much rather they look into recall legislation, but no self-serving politician (read: most, in my opinion) want to consider such a thing, though I firmly believe safeguards could be put in place to prevent abuses of such a process. I suspect it might even produce a more civil atmosphere in politics, and give people a viable recourse in situations like Rob Ford, Ontario's Liberals or the "evil Harperites". How to get actual traction on such a thing is beyond me (especially with Hockey Night on the tv and Zeppelin blasting, lol).
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
Yes I would love recall legislation, your right politicians would never put that in place. Referendums are used quite regularly in Switzerland and work really well and I've heard they have one of the best democracies on earth. Personally I believe all we do is elect our dictators, the worst part of our political system is the so called majority, when's the last time a government in Canada has achieved a true majority...usually around 40% of the vote gives a party a so called majority, then you factor in the amount of eligible voters who vote it's usually under 25% of eligible voters who put the government in place. I would like proportional representation, doubt we'll see it, because PM sunny ways doesn't want to lose the power he holds...why I figure the flip flop is starting. I find it funny that his policies are not much dlefferent than Harper, or better yet he's essentially doing as Harper would, yet his polling numbers are good ... so my guess is he has nice hair and that got him elected...hahahaha.
Anyways I really like the recall legislation idea, could be put to a referendum...hahaha. I support referendums, always will...
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
The 'life sentence', as demonstrated in this case, isn't actually a sentence for life in Canada (that's just tough talk). Many think she will be released in 2017 when she comes up for parole again. Reena Virk's family isn't going to fight the parole applications anymore.
The father? Another convict currently incarcerated.
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/bc-killer-kelly-ellards-prison-pregnancy-spurs-calls-for-policy-review/ar-AAjm4ok?li=AAggFp5&ocid=edgsp
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
-EV 8/14/93
Can you imagine having this woman as your mother??? Talk about humiliating.
In all fairness... this crime was committed by a 15 year old. Of all the cold blooded, ruthless, sadistic pieces of sh*t parole boards have rubber stamped for parole... she is actually one candidate I could see giving parole given her status as a youth offender at the time of the crime.
Don't get me wrong... I'm not feeling sorry for her in prison by any stretch of the imagination. I'm saying Canadian parole boards have given the benefit of the doubt to much worse.
From what I've come to understand... she's never admitted to fault- unlike her male companion that was extremely remorseful.
In the end, this fact will mean very little to- repeating myself- a very eager parole board anxious to parole her.
Since she is a federally sentenced inmate, she is potentially eligible to be transferred to a mother-child program, where a child can live with his/her mother until the age of 6. That would depend on the assessment of whether she might pose a risk to her child or not. As such, there is no particular pressure for the parole board to release her based on any argument around bonding with her child or taking on a care-taking role.
And from everything I've read, she seems to be at the least incredibly narcissistic and likely psychopathic. This is her quote to the parole board at her hearing in May 2016: "I’ve done everything and then some. Enough is enough,” she said. “It’s time for this to be done.”
Yup, that's remorse.
"It's time for this to be done?" Oh. Okay. Sure. Reena has long since decomposed. We should all just put the past in the past, eh? Have a nice life, Kelly. Try not to kill anyone again okay? And sorry we made you do such hard time for your mistake. It must have been so tough not able to have sex more than you did.
Who pressures parole boards into releasing inmates such as these? The overwhelming majority of people I know don't want violent offenders released back into the public so it isn't the majority of Canadians from my perspective. Is it a problem of overcrowding and creating space? Or is it an attitude where people wish to empathize with such offenders and offer them another opportunity to live like a normal human being?
I don't think the family is 'feeling it' for Ellard.
I misread your first submission. When you said: 'she seems to be at the least incredibly narcissistic and likely psychopathic'... I thought you were suggesting 'she seemed to be the least'... which I disagreed with.
Sorry.