Canadian Politics Redux

DarthMaeglin

Parksy said:

Here's the thing too man... if you want to be the one to come on here and spread the word of the Toronto Sun and Pierre Polievre, feel free to answer for it with insight. What is toxic woke identity politics?   

Read what I wrote. I never once said the image was either Trudeau and acknowledged that it’s credibly established that it isn’t, despite PP’s claims. I also defined how I (admittedly only in part) see toxic woke identity politics.

 The only question I think I didn’t answer is how I feel about PP making false claims and I don’t condone it and it does undermine his credibility.  I could further editorialize but I’ll leave it at that.

HughFreakingDillon

DarthMaeglin said:

Parksy said:

Here's the thing too man... if you want to be the one to come on here and spread the word of the Toronto Sun and Pierre Polievre, feel free to answer for it with insight. What is toxic woke identity politics?   

Read what I wrote. I never once said the image was either Trudeau and acknowledged that it’s credibly established that it isn’t, despite PP’s claims. I also defined how I (admittedly only in part) see toxic woke identity politics.

 The only question I think I didn’t answer is how I feel about PP making false claims and I don’t condone it and it does undermine his credibility.  I could further editorialize but I’ll leave it at that.

the problem though, as I see it, as that even when you acknowledge that something PP said was inherently false, you trip over yourself trying to still tie it to JT and make it sound nefarious.

"...though it needs to be acknowledged that that is imagery that is associated with pere Trudeau that the younger has worked to tie to himself (he canoed into an announcement, I think even wearing his dad’s frilly leather jacket)"

he paddled in on a canoe. the only thing more Canadian would have been if he rode in on a moose covered in syrup. 

Original_Shifty

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

Parksy said:

Here's the thing too man... if you want to be the one to come on here and spread the word of the Toronto Sun and Pierre Polievre, feel free to answer for it with insight. What is toxic woke identity politics?   

Read what I wrote. I never once said the image was either Trudeau and acknowledged that it’s credibly established that it isn’t, despite PP’s claims. I also defined how I (admittedly only in part) see toxic woke identity politics.

 The only question I think I didn’t answer is how I feel about PP making false claims and I don’t condone it and it does undermine his credibility.  I could further editorialize but I’ll leave it at that.

the problem though, as I see it, as that even when you acknowledge that something PP said was inherently false, you trip over yourself trying to still tie it to JT and make it sound nefarious.

"...though it needs to be acknowledged that that is imagery that is associated with pere Trudeau that the younger has worked to tie to himself (he canoed into an announcement, I think even wearing his dad’s frilly leather jacket)"

he paddled in on a canoe. the only thing more Canadian would have been if he rode in on a moose covered in syrup. 

Not quite the same effect of Stockwell Day riding a jet ski onto the beach of Okanagan Lake though. 

DarthMaeglin

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

Parksy said:

Here's the thing too man... if you want to be the one to come on here and spread the word of the Toronto Sun and Pierre Polievre, feel free to answer for it with insight. What is toxic woke identity politics?   

Read what I wrote. I never once said the image was either Trudeau and acknowledged that it’s credibly established that it isn’t, despite PP’s claims. I also defined how I (admittedly only in part) see toxic woke identity politics.

 The only question I think I didn’t answer is how I feel about PP making false claims and I don’t condone it and it does undermine his credibility.  I could further editorialize but I’ll leave it at that.

the problem though, as I see it, as that even when you acknowledge that something PP said was inherently false, you trip over yourself trying to still tie it to JT and make it sound nefarious.

"...though it needs to be acknowledged that that is imagery that is associated with pere Trudeau that the younger has worked to tie to himself (he canoed into an announcement, I think even wearing his dad’s frilly leather jacket)"

he paddled in on a canoe. the only thing more Canadian would have been if he rode in on a moose covered in syrup. 

And that’s a fair point, though in my defence I’m FAR from the only one who does that. And I’m one of the only ones willing to eat crow I’m ashamed to point out.

ekwipt

Historically the longest our country can stomach any Prime Minister is 10 consecutive years. It’s not at all surprising that people are ready for a change. It’s damn disappointing though that that change may well come by way of a complete grifter like PP. 

ekwipt

There’s been some discussion about the Canada Post strike in the mystery box related threads on The Porch so I suggested that be moved here as long as no one has any objections. 

ekwipt

ekwipt said:

There’s been some discussion about the Canada Post strike in the mystery box related threads on The Porch so I suggested that be moved here as long as no one has any objections. 

I want my mystery box to arrive as much as anyone but I’ll gladly wait if it means 55,000
workers get a reasonable contract. 

Zod

I did see that reply to my post, so I thought I would reply in this thread.

Yes Canada Post doesn't negotiate well and plays hard ball tactics.  At the same time the Union had all year to go on strike.  They chose when they did because it has maximum impact (the busiest time of the year).

I still feel it's a bad long term move.  Canada Post becoming unreliable at Christmas means more packages get sent via couriers and private services.    Canada Post already got behind the eight ball on parcel delivery over the last 10 years.    If they don't reopen in time for Christmas Delivery (which I mean people start their Christmas Shopping on Black Friday), that's going to be significant business that shifts to other courier services and doesn't come back.  That won't cause Canada Post to close, but the lower mail/parcel volumes you have, the less staff you need to operate it.  I suspect it result in a reduction in the workforce over time.

I'm not defending Canada Post, I'm just saying the tactic of waiting to call the strike until the busiest time of the year is most likely to have further long term negative results.

Maybe the next government will look at Canada Posts mandate and make reductions.  

I also have a question I'm hoping someone knows the answer too.  If Canada Post is run quasi-privately, how to do they fund their debt?  At what point does it cause them to implode?

HughFreakingDillon

I agree, obviously CP chose this time to strike for max impact. But it is, I also agree, a risk. No one would have cared if they called it in October. While they are still a necessity, that necessity is diminishing. I still do get some packages through mail, but a lot of my deliveries are from private couriers. Most of my mail from CP is flyers. 

ekwipt

Zod said:

I did see that reply to my post, so I thought I would reply in this thread.

Yes Canada Post doesn't negotiate well and plays hard ball tactics.  At the same time the Union had all year to go on strike.  They chose when they did because it has maximum impact (the busiest time of the year).

I still feel it's a bad long term move.  Canada Post becoming unreliable at Christmas means more packages get sent via couriers and private services.    Canada Post already got behind the eight ball on parcel delivery over the last 10 years.    If they don't reopen in time for Christmas Delivery (which I mean people start their Christmas Shopping on Black Friday), that's going to be significant business that shifts to other courier services and doesn't come back.  That won't cause Canada Post to close, but the lower mail/parcel volumes you have, the less staff you need to operate it.  I suspect it result in a reduction in the workforce over time.

I'm not defending Canada Post, I'm just saying the tactic of waiting to call the strike until the busiest time of the year is most likely to have further long term negative results.

Maybe the next government will look at Canada Posts mandate and make reductions.  

I also have a question I'm hoping someone knows the answer too.  If Canada Post is run quasi-privately, how to do they fund their debt?  At what point does it cause them to implode?

Cheers 🍻! I’m sure the Americans & Europeans in the other threads don’t want to hear about this 😂 

The strike began when the corp. changed working conditions on Nov 15th. They shut off health benefits that workers had paid for all year and removed all protections workers had against unmerited layoffs and firings. The union could not allow its members to continue working under those conditions. Believe me, no one wants to be on strike in this cold weather with no income heading into the holidays but the corp. really forced it. Typically the union would engage in rotating strike days which irritate the corp. and pressure for fair bargaining but has little impact on delivery to the public. Unfortunately that was not an option after Nov 15. and prior to that there was no reason to strike as the working conditions of the previous contract were still in place. 

Much of the supposed financial problems at Canada Post are being manufactured. They had 6.9 billion in revenue last year but are spending it even faster than it comes in. Why does a company claiming declining volumes need to spend billions on massive new processing plants and upgraded vehicles? Why would any company in supposed dire straits be quietly continuing to dish out executive bonuses annually instead of holding their CEO and upper mgmt responsible? It benefits the corp. in the court of public opinion to appear to be in financial trouble when dealing with contract negotiations. 

Canada Post has a mandate to deliver to all Canadians at a reasonable price and to provide good jobs in communities across the country. They are not meant to be run as a for-profit business with shareholders to answer to.
It speaks volumes that the Minister in govt responsible for Canada Post, Jean-Yves Duclos, made public statements recently reminding the corp. of their mandate. While he will likely never give details about what’s happening with negotiations behind closed doors his statements were very telling about the mismanagement that has been going on.

This mandate certainly has challenges. It is not profitable to deliver to the extreme rural corners of this vast country. It is vital though that all Canadians receive mail and parcel service. None of the private major delivery companies will service those areas. They subcontract all that work to Canada Post. 

As for how the corp. handles and funds its debts I am not privy to that information and I expect few are. 
I can say with certainty though that Canada Post takes no money whatsoever from taxpayers. They are completely funded by income from the services they provide and revenue from the distribution of advertising from private companies. 

I suspect it has come as a bit of a surprise to the corp. that the govt is not quickly intervening with back to work legislation and binding arbitration. This still may happen but they likely gambled it would come more quickly when they revoked working conditions and forced a strike. 

UPS (America) workers last contract tops workers salary at $49US/hr and they are still thriving. It’s amazing what happens when a company isn’t completely mismanaged. 

Zod

ekwipt said:

Zod said:

I did see that reply to my post, so I thought I would reply in this thread.

Yes Canada Post doesn't negotiate well and plays hard ball tactics.  At the same time the Union had all year to go on strike.  They chose when they did because it has maximum impact (the busiest time of the year).

I still feel it's a bad long term move.  Canada Post becoming unreliable at Christmas means more packages get sent via couriers and private services.    Canada Post already got behind the eight ball on parcel delivery over the last 10 years.    If they don't reopen in time for Christmas Delivery (which I mean people start their Christmas Shopping on Black Friday), that's going to be significant business that shifts to other courier services and doesn't come back.  That won't cause Canada Post to close, but the lower mail/parcel volumes you have, the less staff you need to operate it.  I suspect it result in a reduction in the workforce over time.

I'm not defending Canada Post, I'm just saying the tactic of waiting to call the strike until the busiest time of the year is most likely to have further long term negative results.

Maybe the next government will look at Canada Posts mandate and make reductions.  

I also have a question I'm hoping someone knows the answer too.  If Canada Post is run quasi-privately, how to do they fund their debt?  At what point does it cause them to implode?

Cheers 🍻! I’m sure the Americans & Europeans in the other threads don’t want to hear about this 😂 

The strike began when the corp. changed working conditions on Nov 15th. They shut off health benefits that workers had paid for all year and removed all protections workers had against unmerited layoffs and firings. The union could not allow its members to continue working under those conditions. Believe me, no one wants to be on strike in this cold weather with no income heading into the holidays but the corp. really forced it. Typically the union would engage in rotating strike days which irritate the corp. and pressure for fair bargaining but has little impact on delivery to the public. Unfortunately that was not an option after Nov 15. and prior to that there was no reason to strike as the working conditions of the previous contract were still in place. 

Much of the supposed financial problems at Canada Post are being manufactured. They had 6.9 billion in revenue last year but are spending it even faster than it comes in. Why does a company claiming declining volumes need to spend billions on massive new processing plants and upgraded vehicles? Why would any company in supposed dire straits be quietly continuing to dish out executive bonuses annually instead of holding their CEO and upper mgmt responsible? It benefits the corp. in the court of public opinion to appear to be in financial trouble when dealing with contract negotiations. 

Canada Post has a mandate to deliver to all Canadians at a reasonable price and to provide good jobs in communities across the country. They are not meant to be run as a for-profit business with shareholders to answer to.
It speaks volumes that the Minister in govt responsible for Canada Post, Jean-Yves Duclos, made public statements recently reminding the corp. of their mandate. While he will likely never give details about what’s happening with negotiations behind closed doors his statements were very telling about the mismanagement that has been going on.

This mandate certainly has challenges. It is not profitable to deliver to the extreme rural corners of this vast country. It is vital though that all Canadians receive mail and parcel service. None of the private major delivery companies will service those areas. They subcontract all that work to Canada Post. 

As for how the corp. handles and funds its debts I am not privy to that information and I expect few are. 
I can say with certainty though that Canada Post takes no money whatsoever from taxpayers. They are completely funded by income from the services they provide and revenue from the distribution of advertising from private companies. 

I suspect it has come as a bit of a surprise to the corp. that the govt is not quickly intervening with back to work legislation and binding arbitration. This still may happen but they likely gambled it would come more quickly when they revoked working conditions and forced a strike. 

UPS (America) workers last contract tops workers salary at $49US/hr and they are still thriving. It’s amazing what happens when a company isn’t completely mismanaged. 

Wait I tried to google information about the change of working conditions on November 15th was a response the strike notice issues on November 12th? Not that the strike was the result in a change of working conditions?  Are you able to cite something, I couldn't find anything to back that up.

I also assumed the new sorting facilities was part of the plan to become more competitive in parcel delivery.   Lettermail has dried up.  There's still things that use it, but compared to all the christmas cards, birthday cards, letters, bills etc... that used to get mailed and no longer do, they need to generate money from somewhere?

I suppose they could not have tried to ramp up parcel delivery as a response to waning lettermail volumes, but if the government's not increasing subsidy, they need to find a better revenue source?

I suppose it's tough all around.  I think the employees are going to feel the outcome of this one big time.  Regardless of whose fault the strike is :(

ekwipt

Zod said:

ekwipt said:

Zod said:

I did see that reply to my post, so I thought I would reply in this thread.

Yes Canada Post doesn't negotiate well and plays hard ball tactics.  At the same time the Union had all year to go on strike.  They chose when they did because it has maximum impact (the busiest time of the year).

I still feel it's a bad long term move.  Canada Post becoming unreliable at Christmas means more packages get sent via couriers and private services.    Canada Post already got behind the eight ball on parcel delivery over the last 10 years.    If they don't reopen in time for Christmas Delivery (which I mean people start their Christmas Shopping on Black Friday), that's going to be significant business that shifts to other courier services and doesn't come back.  That won't cause Canada Post to close, but the lower mail/parcel volumes you have, the less staff you need to operate it.  I suspect it result in a reduction in the workforce over time.

I'm not defending Canada Post, I'm just saying the tactic of waiting to call the strike until the busiest time of the year is most likely to have further long term negative results.

Maybe the next government will look at Canada Posts mandate and make reductions.  

I also have a question I'm hoping someone knows the answer too.  If Canada Post is run quasi-privately, how to do they fund their debt?  At what point does it cause them to implode?

Cheers 🍻! I’m sure the Americans & Europeans in the other threads don’t want to hear about this 😂 

The strike began when the corp. changed working conditions on Nov 15th. They shut off health benefits that workers had paid for all year and removed all protections workers had against unmerited layoffs and firings. The union could not allow its members to continue working under those conditions. Believe me, no one wants to be on strike in this cold weather with no income heading into the holidays but the corp. really forced it. Typically the union would engage in rotating strike days which irritate the corp. and pressure for fair bargaining but has little impact on delivery to the public. Unfortunately that was not an option after Nov 15. and prior to that there was no reason to strike as the working conditions of the previous contract were still in place. 

Much of the supposed financial problems at Canada Post are being manufactured. They had 6.9 billion in revenue last year but are spending it even faster than it comes in. Why does a company claiming declining volumes need to spend billions on massive new processing plants and upgraded vehicles? Why would any company in supposed dire straits be quietly continuing to dish out executive bonuses annually instead of holding their CEO and upper mgmt responsible? It benefits the corp. in the court of public opinion to appear to be in financial trouble when dealing with contract negotiations. 

Canada Post has a mandate to deliver to all Canadians at a reasonable price and to provide good jobs in communities across the country. They are not meant to be run as a for-profit business with shareholders to answer to.
It speaks volumes that the Minister in govt responsible for Canada Post, Jean-Yves Duclos, made public statements recently reminding the corp. of their mandate. While he will likely never give details about what’s happening with negotiations behind closed doors his statements were very telling about the mismanagement that has been going on.

This mandate certainly has challenges. It is not profitable to deliver to the extreme rural corners of this vast country. It is vital though that all Canadians receive mail and parcel service. None of the private major delivery companies will service those areas. They subcontract all that work to Canada Post. 

As for how the corp. handles and funds its debts I am not privy to that information and I expect few are. 
I can say with certainty though that Canada Post takes no money whatsoever from taxpayers. They are completely funded by income from the services they provide and revenue from the distribution of advertising from private companies. 

I suspect it has come as a bit of a surprise to the corp. that the govt is not quickly intervening with back to work legislation and binding arbitration. This still may happen but they likely gambled it would come more quickly when they revoked working conditions and forced a strike. 

UPS (America) workers last contract tops workers salary at $49US/hr and they are still thriving. It’s amazing what happens when a company isn’t completely mismanaged. 

Wait I tried to google information about the change of working conditions on November 15th was a response the strike notice issues on November 12th? Not that the strike was the result in a change of working conditions?  Are you able to cite something, I couldn't find anything to back that up.

I also assumed the new sorting facilities was part of the plan to become more competitive in parcel delivery.   Lettermail has dried up.  There's still things that use it, but compared to all the christmas cards, birthday cards, letters, bills etc... that used to get mailed and no longer do, they need to generate money from somewhere?

I suppose they could not have tried to ramp up parcel delivery as a response to waning lettermail volumes, but if the government's not increasing subsidy, they need to find a better revenue source?

I suppose it's tough all around.  I think the employees are going to feel the outcome of this one big time.  Regardless of whose fault the strike is :(

Union issued 72 hr strike notice & the corp also issued 72 hr lockout notice. Neither of these necessarily mean a strike or lockout will definitely happen in 72 hrs. Work can proceed under normal working conditions as negotiations continue if the company allows. The company did not allow it and revoked major working conditions. No decent union would allow its members to continue working under the conditions that Canada Post issued for Nov 15 onwards. Google will never be a relevant source of information for any labour dispute. You’ll get tidbits maybe but real investigative journalism is a dying breed. The majority of what is reported is just parroted from corporate press releases which are about the furthest thing from an unbiased source of news. I’m offering some truth. You can believe or disbelieve. Doesn’t much matter to me. I don’t expect to change anyone’s opinion who is anti labour/anti union/anti Canada Post. Just shedding some light on the situation from decades of experience because people are discussing it. 

Lettermail volumes have declined over the years. There is no debating that. There is also no debating that it still generates annual revenue in the billions. No other delivery company in Canada has regular lettermail revenue. There are many nefarious reasons (a whole other conversation) the corp. is constantly feeding the press with the message that lettermail is somehow a burden. Please sign me up for a multi billion dollar burden of income anytime 😂.

As for parcel delivery it’s not as simple as just ramping up delivery. It is a highly competitive industry whereas lettermail is essentially a monopoly. Private companies get to choose who they contract parcel delivery to. Companies like Fedex sign massive major corps. to exclusive delivery contracts so Canada Post has no access to large chunks of market share. The private sector delivery companies would obviously benefit massively if Canada Post was out of their way completely. They are happy to use the Amazon sales model where they loss leader large contracts just to undercut Canada Post and take over market share. For years the private sector has been drooling over the possibility of Canada Post shuttering or being privatized so they can also get their hands on the lettermail market. They’d raise prices tenfold and cut out all the unprofitable delivery areas across the country and boom! Cash cow 💵 
They have no mandate to serve all Canadians. Profit is their only responsibility. 

The union and workers have long been petitioning Canada Post to expand into new revenue generating services. Canada Post has perhaps the most vast network of retail counters nation wide. They service communities that other businesses do not exist in. Why not utilize that network? Why not offer banking services to communities that don’t have a bank? There is so much potential there but the corp. isn’t interested. They are hellbent on deteriorating service and slashing labour. They are doing their best to ignore their mandate. Canadians should be angry about Canada Post but it is not the ground floor workers they should be angry at. They should be angry that their public post office is being eroded to pay for an absurdly top heavy management structure. They should be angry that the execs running CPC are eager to see a majority conservative govt come to power who are gleefully willing to not hold them to their mandate so they can continue on their destructive path at a more rapid pace. 

Zod

ekwipt said:

Zod said:

ekwipt said:

Zod said:

I did see that reply to my post, so I thought I would reply in this thread.

Yes Canada Post doesn't negotiate well and plays hard ball tactics.  At the same time the Union had all year to go on strike.  They chose when they did because it has maximum impact (the busiest time of the year).

I still feel it's a bad long term move.  Canada Post becoming unreliable at Christmas means more packages get sent via couriers and private services.    Canada Post already got behind the eight ball on parcel delivery over the last 10 years.    If they don't reopen in time for Christmas Delivery (which I mean people start their Christmas Shopping on Black Friday), that's going to be significant business that shifts to other courier services and doesn't come back.  That won't cause Canada Post to close, but the lower mail/parcel volumes you have, the less staff you need to operate it.  I suspect it result in a reduction in the workforce over time.

I'm not defending Canada Post, I'm just saying the tactic of waiting to call the strike until the busiest time of the year is most likely to have further long term negative results.

Maybe the next government will look at Canada Posts mandate and make reductions.  

I also have a question I'm hoping someone knows the answer too.  If Canada Post is run quasi-privately, how to do they fund their debt?  At what point does it cause them to implode?

Cheers 🍻! I’m sure the Americans & Europeans in the other threads don’t want to hear about this 😂 

The strike began when the corp. changed working conditions on Nov 15th. They shut off health benefits that workers had paid for all year and removed all protections workers had against unmerited layoffs and firings. The union could not allow its members to continue working under those conditions. Believe me, no one wants to be on strike in this cold weather with no income heading into the holidays but the corp. really forced it. Typically the union would engage in rotating strike days which irritate the corp. and pressure for fair bargaining but has little impact on delivery to the public. Unfortunately that was not an option after Nov 15. and prior to that there was no reason to strike as the working conditions of the previous contract were still in place. 

Much of the supposed financial problems at Canada Post are being manufactured. They had 6.9 billion in revenue last year but are spending it even faster than it comes in. Why does a company claiming declining volumes need to spend billions on massive new processing plants and upgraded vehicles? Why would any company in supposed dire straits be quietly continuing to dish out executive bonuses annually instead of holding their CEO and upper mgmt responsible? It benefits the corp. in the court of public opinion to appear to be in financial trouble when dealing with contract negotiations. 

Canada Post has a mandate to deliver to all Canadians at a reasonable price and to provide good jobs in communities across the country. They are not meant to be run as a for-profit business with shareholders to answer to.
It speaks volumes that the Minister in govt responsible for Canada Post, Jean-Yves Duclos, made public statements recently reminding the corp. of their mandate. While he will likely never give details about what’s happening with negotiations behind closed doors his statements were very telling about the mismanagement that has been going on.

This mandate certainly has challenges. It is not profitable to deliver to the extreme rural corners of this vast country. It is vital though that all Canadians receive mail and parcel service. None of the private major delivery companies will service those areas. They subcontract all that work to Canada Post. 

As for how the corp. handles and funds its debts I am not privy to that information and I expect few are. 
I can say with certainty though that Canada Post takes no money whatsoever from taxpayers. They are completely funded by income from the services they provide and revenue from the distribution of advertising from private companies. 

I suspect it has come as a bit of a surprise to the corp. that the govt is not quickly intervening with back to work legislation and binding arbitration. This still may happen but they likely gambled it would come more quickly when they revoked working conditions and forced a strike. 

UPS (America) workers last contract tops workers salary at $49US/hr and they are still thriving. It’s amazing what happens when a company isn’t completely mismanaged. 

Wait I tried to google information about the change of working conditions on November 15th was a response the strike notice issues on November 12th? Not that the strike was the result in a change of working conditions?  Are you able to cite something, I couldn't find anything to back that up.

I also assumed the new sorting facilities was part of the plan to become more competitive in parcel delivery.   Lettermail has dried up.  There's still things that use it, but compared to all the christmas cards, birthday cards, letters, bills etc... that used to get mailed and no longer do, they need to generate money from somewhere?

I suppose they could not have tried to ramp up parcel delivery as a response to waning lettermail volumes, but if the government's not increasing subsidy, they need to find a better revenue source?

I suppose it's tough all around.  I think the employees are going to feel the outcome of this one big time.  Regardless of whose fault the strike is :(

Union issued 72 hr strike notice & the corp also issued 72 hr lockout notice. Neither of these necessarily mean a strike or lockout will definitely happen in 72 hrs. Work can proceed under normal working conditions as negotiations continue if the company allows. The company did not allow it and revoked major working conditions. No decent union would allow its members to continue working under the conditions that Canada Post issued for Nov 15 onwards. Google will never be a relevant source of information for any labour dispute. You’ll get tidbits maybe but real investigative journalism is a dying breed. The majority of what is reported is just parroted from corporate press releases which are about the furthest thing from an unbiased source of news. I’m offering some truth. You can believe or disbelieve. Doesn’t much matter to me. I don’t expect to change anyone’s opinion who is anti labour/anti union/anti Canada Post. Just shedding some light on the situation from decades of experience because people are discussing it. 

Lettermail volumes have declined over the years. There is no debating that. There is also no debating that it still generates annual revenue in the billions. No other delivery company in Canada has regular lettermail revenue. There are many nefarious reasons (a whole other conversation) the corp. is constantly feeding the press with the message that lettermail is somehow a burden. Please sign me up for a multi billion dollar burden of income anytime 😂.

As for parcel delivery it’s not as simple as just ramping up delivery. It is a highly competitive industry whereas lettermail is essentially a monopoly. Private companies get to choose who they contract parcel delivery to. Companies like Fedex sign massive major corps. to exclusive delivery contracts so Canada Post has no access to large chunks of market share. The private sector delivery companies would obviously benefit massively if Canada Post was out of their way completely. They are happy to use the Amazon sales model where they loss leader large contracts just to undercut Canada Post and take over market share. For years the private sector has been drooling over the possibility of Canada Post shuttering or being privatized so they can also get their hands on the lettermail market. They’d raise prices tenfold and cut out all the unprofitable delivery areas across the country and boom! Cash cow 💵 
They have no mandate to serve all Canadians. Profit is their only responsibility. 

The union and workers have long been petitioning Canada Post to expand into new revenue generating services. Canada Post has perhaps the most vast network of retail counters nation wide. They service communities that other businesses do not exist in. Why not utilize that network? Why not offer banking services to communities that don’t have a bank? There is so much potential there but the corp. isn’t interested. They are hellbent on deteriorating service and slashing labour. They are doing their best to ignore their mandate. Canadians should be angry about Canada Post but it is not the ground floor workers they should be angry at. They should be angry that their public post office is being eroded to pay for an absurdly top heavy management structure. They should be angry that the execs running CPC are eager to see a majority conservative govt come to power who are gleefully willing to not hold them to their mandate so they can continue on their destructive path at a more rapid pace. 

From the outside looking it, it looks like what Canada Post did was a response to the strike notice being given.  Just the crap that happens between employees and corporations when things start going south.

https://www.mynelsonnow.com/60375/news/kootenay-news/canada-post-issues-employee-lockout-notice/

The revenue of lettermail is meaningless, without also stating the cost of delivering it.   For example, if you're revenue is 100m, but it costs you 150m to operate the service, then it's not a good thing.   There's a reason couriers don't offer lettermail.  Actually I think many of them do, they just don't do it for a buck.  You can courier a letter. I also think lettermail will continue to drop, as older populations that prefer lettermail continue to age out, and younger generations that do things online replace them.

Maybe Canadian's aren't mad, because the majority of Canadians barely use the service.   All my bills are online.  I really only get junk mail and flyers through lettermail, which is horrible for the environment and get immediately get placed in the recycle bin.  Most of my online packages come from couriers.    Mostly just the odd international thing that shows up via CP.

To me it seems like both sides have issues.   Again regardless of who is at fault, I do believe having this strike when it is, and missing the Christmas season, it's going to do irreparable harm due to a loss in faith in the service.   I think both the corporation and employees are both going to lose out.

ekwipt

Again, strike notice doesn’t mean strike. Just like their lockout notice doesn’t mean lockout. Both sides issued notice. Didn’t mean it would happen. Didn’t mean working conditions had to change. That was a decision the corp made. A bullying tactic to try to get their bad contract offer signed. 

Like I said, just trying to shed some light. Not trying to change the world. Too many take a blurb on the news and think they know what’s going on and play armchair quarterback when they have no clue. Seems like the most vocal critics tend to have little or no experience working in a union, engaging in labour relations, writing massive collective agreement contracts etc. etc. etc. Not at all directed at you. None of this has been. Always found you to be intelligent & very kind. Just sharing what I know in the hopes it may enlighten some. The corporate propaganda machine is a beast and truth rarely escapes its shadow.

*That article has some serious errors about the contract offer that CPC has on the table as of now. They have just parroted CPCs press release about the details as I mentioned before is the norm. Stuff like that is a huge part of the problem. 

HughFreakingDillon

ekwipt said:

Again, strike notice doesn’t mean strike. Just like their lockout notice doesn’t mean lockout. Both sides issued notice. Didn’t mean it would happen. Didn’t mean working conditions had to change. That was a decision the corp made. A bullying tactic to try to get their bad contract offer signed. 

Like I said, just trying to shed some light. Not trying to change the world. Too many take a blurb on the news and think they know what’s going on and play armchair quarterback when they have no clue. Seems like the most vocal critics tend to have little or no experience working in a union, engaging in labour relations, writing massive collective agreement contracts etc. etc. etc. Not at all directed at you. None of this has been. Always found you to be intelligent & very kind. Just sharing what I know in the hopes it may enlighten some. The corporate propaganda machine is a beast and truth rarely escapes its shadow.

  

ekwipt

One reminder for those interested in the topic. Canada Post is a public service with a mandate to service all Canadians and provide good jobs nationwide. It takes no money from taxpayers and no government handouts. No one talks about the profits or losses of Service Canada, Passport Canada, Parks Canada, Canada Coast Guard, Revenue Canada  
and other such govt agencies. There is an agenda behind pushing a narrative of a failing post office (and mismanaging it into failure).

Zod

ekwipt said:

Again, strike notice doesn’t mean strike. Just like their lockout notice doesn’t mean lockout. Both sides issued notice. Didn’t mean it would happen. Didn’t mean working conditions had to change. That was a decision the corp made. A bullying tactic to try to get their bad contract offer signed. 

Like I said, just trying to shed some light. Not trying to change the world. Too many take a blurb on the news and think they know what’s going on and play armchair quarterback when they have no clue. Seems like the most vocal critics tend to have little or no experience working in a union, engaging in labour relations, writing massive collective agreement contracts etc. etc. etc. Not at all directed at you. None of this has been. Always found you to be intelligent & very kind. Just sharing what I know in the hopes it may enlighten some. The corporate propaganda machine is a beast and truth rarely escapes its shadow.

*That article has some serious errors about the contract offer that CPC has on the table as of now. They have just parroted CPCs press release about the details as I mentioned before is the norm. Stuff like that is a huge part of the problem. 

I've worked union jobs.  We got locked out once but we flinched first.  3 of of the stores of the chain i worked for gave notice and the companies response was a full scale lock out.  It's what happens.  Moves and Countermoves.  It wasnt simultaneous.  We gave notice in a few stores and the company issued full on lock out the same day.

I'm not trying to argue anything in Canada Post favour.  They're using underhanded tactics.  I'm arguing about the timing.

They did it when they had maximum leverage, but the timing is going to hurt.  Now the timing has misfired.  Missing Christmas season is going to sting, and after missing it they have less leverage in the post christmas quiet season.  Over the long term its less mail through Canada Post requiring less people to sort and deliver it.

Im not against Canada Post being subsidized if it came to that but there should be limits and what not.  We have a similar problem in BC with our ferries being fake private.   Government subsidizes some of it, but its not really enough, but the question is how many of your tax dollars do you actually want to allocate to it.  Would those tax dollars be better served going to health care, affordable housing, mental health supports etc.  Its tough out there.

Also you keep hinging your arguement that Canada Post gave lockout notice at the exact same time the union gave strike notice.  All I find are articles that discuss the lockout was a reaction to the strike notice. Could you please provide a link or source for the information you are providing that says it was simultaneous.

Another article from global news:

Globalnews.ca/news/10865138/canada-post-strike-notice

Companies are usually going to respond when strike notice is issued.  My Dad got locked out of his mill job for over 6 weeks when they gave strike notice, and company responded with a lockout.

It's not rocket appliances.  The moment you threaten to shut down the business its game on for negotiation tactics and Canada Post is pretty underhanded with the layoff notices and cutting health benefits.  That cold.

brianlux

Thoughts on what the outcome might be here?  (Kudos to Trudeau for trying)

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/nov/30/trudeau-in-florida-to-meet-trump-after-tariffs-threat-reports

Trudeau in Florida to meet Trump after tariffs threat – reports

Canada’s PM to dine with US president-elect at Mar-a-Lago resort, news reports say, days after Trump threatens 25% tariff on Canadian imports

The Canadian prime minister, Justin Trudeau, has arrived in Palm Beach, Florida, ahead of a meeting Donald Trump at his Mar-a-Lago resort, according to media reports, days after the US president-elect threatened the US’s neighbour with import tariffs once he takes office.

The Canadian prime minister’s public itinerary does not list a scheduled visit to Florida. Neither Trudeau’s office nor Trump’s representatives immediately responded to requests for comment.

Canada’s Globe and Mail newspaper, citing two unidentified sources, reported that Trudeau was in Florida to meet with Trump. Trump was going to have dinner with Trudeau on Friday night at Mar-a-Lago, CNN reported later, citing a source.

Canada’s public safety minister, Dominic LeBlanc, was travelling with Trudeau, the Canadian Broadcasting Corp reported.

Trump threatened on Monday to impose a 25% tariff on imports from Canada and Mexico until the countries clamped down on drugs, particularly fentanyl, and migrants crossing the border.

Officials from Mexico, Canada and China, along with major industry groups, have warned that the hefty tariffs threatened by Trump would harm the economies of all countries involved, cause inflation to spike and damage job markets.

Any hit to the Canadian economy would add to Trudeau’s woes at a time when his popularity has sunk in part due to a slowing economy and a rapid surge in the cost of living over the past few years. Polls show Trudeau’s Liberals would lose to the opposition Conservative party in an election that must be held by late October 2025.

Trudeau this week pledged to stay united against Trump’s tariffs threat, and called a meeting with the premiers of all 10 Canadian provinces to discuss US relations.

Canada is the world’s fourth-largest oil producer and sixth-largest natural gas producer. The vast majority of its 4m barrels a day of crude exports go to the US.

Trump’s plan did not exempt crude oil from the trade penalties, two sources familiar with the plan told Reuters on Tuesday.

More than three-quarters of Canadian exports, worth C$592.7bn ($423bn), went to the US last year, and nearly 2m Canadian jobs are dependent on trade.

A government source said Canada was considering possible retaliatory tariffs against the United States.

Some have suggested Trump’s tariff threat may be bluster, or an opening salvo in future trade negotiations. But Trudeau rejected those views when he spoke with reporters earlier in Prince Edward Island province.

“Donald Trump, when he makes statements like that, he plans on carrying them out,” Trudeau said. “There’s no question about it.”

Choccoloccotide

Little Justin getting in line I see 👀👀

ekwipt

Zod said:

ekwipt said:

Again, strike notice doesn’t mean strike. Just like their lockout notice doesn’t mean lockout. Both sides issued notice. Didn’t mean it would happen. Didn’t mean working conditions had to change. That was a decision the corp made. A bullying tactic to try to get their bad contract offer signed. 

Like I said, just trying to shed some light. Not trying to change the world. Too many take a blurb on the news and think they know what’s going on and play armchair quarterback when they have no clue. Seems like the most vocal critics tend to have little or no experience working in a union, engaging in labour relations, writing massive collective agreement contracts etc. etc. etc. Not at all directed at you. None of this has been. Always found you to be intelligent & very kind. Just sharing what I know in the hopes it may enlighten some. The corporate propaganda machine is a beast and truth rarely escapes its shadow.

*That article has some serious errors about the contract offer that CPC has on the table as of now. They have just parroted CPCs press release about the details as I mentioned before is the norm. Stuff like that is a huge part of the problem. 

I've worked union jobs.  We got locked out once but we flinched first.  3 of of the stores of the chain i worked for gave notice and the companies response was a full scale lock out.  It's what happens.  Moves and Countermoves.  It wasnt simultaneous.  We gave notice in a few stores and the company issued full on lock out the same day.

I'm not trying to argue anything in Canada Post favour.  They're using underhanded tactics.  I'm arguing about the timing.

They did it when they had maximum leverage, but the timing is going to hurt.  Now the timing has misfired.  Missing Christmas season is going to sting, and after missing it they have less leverage in the post christmas quiet season.  Over the long term its less mail through Canada Post requiring less people to sort and deliver it.

Im not against Canada Post being subsidized if it came to that but there should be limits and what not.  We have a similar problem in BC with our ferries being fake private.   Government subsidizes some of it, but its not really enough, but the question is how many of your tax dollars do you actually want to allocate to it.  Would those tax dollars be better served going to health care, affordable housing, mental health supports etc.  Its tough out there.

Also you keep hinging your arguement that Canada Post gave lockout notice at the exact same time the union gave strike notice.  All I find are articles that discuss the lockout was a reaction to the strike notice. Could you please provide a link or source for the information you are providing that says it was simultaneous.

Another article from global news:

Globalnews.ca/news/10865138/canada-post-strike-notice

Companies are usually going to respond when strike notice is issued.  My Dad got locked out of his mill job for over 6 weeks when they gave strike notice, and company responded with a lockout.

It's not rocket appliances.  The moment you threaten to shut down the business its game on for negotiation tactics and Canada Post is pretty underhanded with the layoff notices and cutting health benefits.  That cold.

There seems to be a misunderstanding or miscommunication here. I’ll do my best to clear it up but discussion via text is always tricky because no one is present to address how what is read is personally perceived. 

-I am on the inside of this dispute and have been on the inside of every CPC/CUPW negotiation for decades. 

-I never stated that strike notice and lockout notice were simultaneous. If memory serves they were around eight hours apart. I never stressed the timing of notice issued for either party because it is relatively irrelevant. Notice issued is like 2 cats growling at each other. It’s not a real fight (strike/lockout) until someone takes a swing.

-In past negotiations sometimes CPC & CUPW have continued working for weeks under multiple 72 hr notices issued and certain minor working conditions revoked (such as all planned vacation leave being cancelled). I understand your family has experienced immediate actual strike and lockout when notice was issued but that is not the way every labour dispute goes. This time the working conditions CPC revoked were major and unacceptable for workers to continue working under. A full strike was called Nov 15 as that was the day the workers would have had to work under the new, unacceptable working conditions. This is the first full strike in over 20 years. 

-I’m sharing facts from inside the dispute. I don’t need news articles to tell me what is happening. I’m living every minute of it. Take all news articles about any labour dispute anywhere with a grain of salt. All they do is re-write what the companies and unions have released. Naturally both sides publicly release only statements that make themselves look good. The last Global one you posted isn’t horrible but again has incorrect info in it, particularly about the current contract offer on the table. I don’t think I’ve even seen a story yet that talks much about what the current major sticking point is (it’s currently the details and rules surrounding an expansion to year round weekend parcel delivery). 

-I’m not here for a debate. I know far more about what is happening day to day than you’ll find in the news. I’ve shared some of it because people seemed interested & chatter started. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and belief about the situation. I’ve offered nothing but truth. There is no deception here. There would be nothing to gain by posting misinformation about a Canadian labour dispute on an American rock band’s forum. There is nothing to gain by posting truths either. It’s just facts. I doubt if more than 10 people have even read any of it. Hopefully the situation will wrap up soon but that is something only a small group of people from both sides back east can decide.