Canadian Politics Redux

Parksy

Just forecasting here... 

It's going to be Carney's Liberals vs. Jagmeet's NDP vs. Pierre's Conservatives. 

In general, what do we think is going to happen? 

If I absolutely had to put money on it right now... I would say Conservative minority. 

HughFreakingDillon

I think a con majority is PP’s to lose at this point. There is simply so much liberal/JT fatigue out there, the liberal attempt to paint him as Trump Light has largely failed as far as I can tell. I think people want a government that can get shit done, and might be willing to put all their chips in on this one. 

He’s confident, he’s a good speaker, he’s good looking (yes, I’m sorry, that has an affect). Not to mention people likely see him as someone who csn foster a decent relationship with Trump, stroking his ego just enough for him to give us what we want/need. 

I could see the NDP gaining support from liberals moving away from the party, but not willing to vote con. I don’t know public sentiment of Jagmeet enough though to know. 

Spunkie

I was wondering if we could just up our energy prices to the US in response to the tariffs and it looks like Doug Ford is also throwing our critical minerals on the table, too. What about water? Can we hold that over their heads?


I guess we are throwing that on the table as much as Alberta wants their money... How about that water? 




Americans view Canada as a kind of “51st State” for mineral supply purposes https://aheadoftheherd.com/water-the-next-us-canada-trade-irritant/



It looks like electricity, oil, and critical minerals are on the table thus far.

Zod

Something I don't get, is how is USMCA (or whatever the acronym is for the new NAFTA) still a binding agreement if Trump tariff's everything?   The agreement protects Canadian water, we can't sell it, because if we do the agreement says our water becomes free game.  Companies that bottle water like Nestle, we charge them a small administration like charge and that's it.

I'm not sure how trump implements tariff's without pulling out of the new NAFTA.  If he pulls out of NAFTA, then we can start charging for our water?  To the best of my knowledge that would really only impact the companies that take it and bottle it here, but hey why not.

I also completely agree with Ford.   I don't want to see manufactured goods targetted, and raw materials exempt.   We should most definitely slap export levies on our raw materials.

erebus

Canada would be on a better position if we manufactured more finished product and refined our own oil instead of just shipping out the raw materials. 

We should have been diversifying our trade with other countries as well as we are too reliant on the US. 

Of course they will always be our largest trading partner, but we do get stung once and awhile by this.

Spunkie

It's too bad there's orchards full of dead apples on trees because it cost as much to pick them then they're worth....

Alberta: no support for tariffs on our energy or other products, nor do we support a ban on exports of these same products.

Threatening to block 1/5 of US energy. Balls.

Zod

erebus said:

Canada would be on a better position if we manufactured more finished product and refined our own oil instead of just shipping out the raw materials. 

We should have been diversifying our trade with other countries as well as we are too reliant on the US. 

Of course they will always be our largest trading partner, but we do get stung once and awhile by this.

Yah, it's crazy.  I guess we don't build refineries because no one wants to create the pollution, so we send the oil to Washington State, they refine it, charge even more to us when they send it back as gas.

To be fair I don't think Gasoline refineries get built in either country now.  They cost billions to make and need to operate for something like 50 years to pay off the debt taken out to build them.  With the electric thing gaining steam, the question for companies is can they run that long to pay back the cost.

I agree though, it's crazy we export our raw materials to other countries, have higher pollution standards, and then the other countries develop them because they don't care.

If we could figure out to to utilize canadian goods and resources and sell them to Canadian customers that would be brilliant.

Parksy

Just watched a fascinating clip from the Jordan Peterson / Pierre Polievre interview. My distain on here for Peterson is well known lol... and Pierre cozying up to him speaks volumes about him.

The clip.. and to me this goes along with my earlier gripe about Pierre's letter to Trudeau about "toxic woke identity policies"... it quite literally stuns me to the point where it makes me sad that people, quite a few people, buy this garbage. 

Pierre (who is now on record saying this) stated that wokeness is the cause of racism in Canada and that it is because of wokeness that hate crimes have gone up 250%. 

To the group here I ask...  are Pierre and Jordan at all correct here? 

HughFreakingDillon

I haven't watched the clip, as I loathe peterson, but based on what you wrote...pure idiocy. 

ekwipt

Parksy said:

Just watched a fascinating clip from the Jordan Peterson / Pierre Polievre interview. My distain on here for Peterson is well known lol... and Pierre cozying up to him speaks volumes about him.

The clip.. and to me this goes along with my earlier gripe about Pierre's letter to Trudeau about "toxic woke identity policies"... it quite literally stuns me to the point where it makes me sad that people, quite a few people, buy this garbage. 

Pierre (who is now on record saying this) stated that wokeness is the cause of racism in Canada and that it is because of wokeness that hate crimes have gone up 250%. 

To the group here I ask...  are Pierre and Jordan at all correct here? 

First time I ever remember hearing the term woke was late 80s/early 90s hiphop. It’s so bizarre that it has now somehow been taken by old, white, conservatives and used for fear mongering. 

Parksy

This is mostly for Ontarians... 

Fordsy is calling an early election.... and using Trump's tariffs as the key wedge issue going to the polls.  (This explains his dumb hat of late) 

Our provincial politics like our federal politics is to me just another toilet full of feces.  That said... I'm no fan of Ford. Never have been. 

dignin

Fuck Trump and any tool that voted for that criminal.

Putin's puppet is doing everything he can to tear apart western democracies.

Looks like we are going down the hard road of eliminating our economic dependency on the US.

Our neighbors to the south can no longer be trusted.

Spunkie

I'd happily pay more for goods if it meant that we would crack down on all the East Indians in my city that are killing us Canadians with fentenal. I guess they must boat it in and then run it down the line? 

oh wait - that's your scam to get around nafta. 

fuckers to the south. 

BF89905

Parksy said:

This is mostly for Ontarians... 

Fordsy is calling an early election.... and using Trump's tariffs as the key wedge issue going to the polls.  (This explains his dumb hat of late) 

Our provincial politics like our federal politics is to me just another toilet full of feces.  That said... I'm no fan of Ford. Never have been. 

This Ontario provincial government may be the most corrupt over the past 25 years. I can't understand why someone would vote for the PC's as they've literally prioritized access to alcohol over the 6.5 years more than public healthcare, autism supports, public education, and social services funding.  They've literally been funneling our public tax dollars to private institutions and businesses, which is disgusting. 

A list of PC stupidity:
1) There's the moving of Service Ontario centres into some Staples stores.
2)Paying hundreds of millions of tax dollars to break the Beer Store and LCBO contracts early to push alcohol into gas stations and every where else.
3) The destruction of the Science Centre despite the roof's engineering company saying they'd fix it for free. 
4) Turning over the natural green space lands of Ontario Place to the international company, Therme, for a private spa resort
5) Dofo's premier office staff encompasses 48 people at $6.9 million dollars
6) The Green Belt Scandal..... What the heck is the RCMP doing regarding their report? Based on all the great investigative journalism that was done prior to the RCMP announcing their investigation - this was a slam dunk example of corruption.
7) They're purposely underfunding public healthcare,  public education, and autism programming. Truth be told, that's exactly where I expect the largest share of my tax dollars to go.
8) This party spends more money on advertising commercials than actually helping common people, which is all the reason I need to vote against them.


Nothing has improved under this PC Party. If someone feels differently that is fine. *Please share what I'm missing.

I really hope people get out to vote on February 27th. The turn out last election was 38%. I've heard that there's only going to be three days for advance voting, which is less than ideal.

I'm cautiously optimistic that people vote against the PC's at the end of the month.

Zod

This is pretty crazy.   I've never felt this way about the US before.  I've spent my entire life hopping the border and adventuring in the US.  Exploring new places, attending concerts, meeting new people.   I've always looked fondly on going there.

This put's a worse feeling in the pit of my stomach than when covid started.   Our biggest ally turned on us.  I'm pretty concerned that it go could beyond economic.   If the same people that voted him in, are coerced by their media that we're the bad guys.  Holy crap :(

PJ_Soul

Zod said:

This is pretty crazy.   I've never felt this way about the US before.  I've spent my entire life hopping the border and adventuring in the US.  Exploring new places, attending concerts, meeting new people.   I've always looked fondly on going there.

This put's a worse feeling in the pit of my stomach than when covid started.   Our biggest ally turned on us.  I'm pretty concerned that it go could beyond economic.   If the same people that voted him in, are coerced by their media that we're the bad guys.  Holy crap :(

I don't think we should underestimate this move, that's for sure. None of us know where it will lead obviously, but anyone who thinks it is impossible that this could be the beginning of the US turning Canada into an actual enemy to conquer is being naive IMO. I think it is a realistic possibility given the way things are going right now. If it isn't a direct path to it, the seeds have at least been sowed. Of course I'm not suggesting the American Reich will be marching across the border anytime soon, but damn... i see no reason not to be imagining it anyway, you know?

Spunkie

^don't worries Z. I'll switch from minute maid to sun rype and everything will be A okay.

brianlux

PJ_Soul said:

Zod said:

This is pretty crazy.   I've never felt this way about the US before.  I've spent my entire life hopping the border and adventuring in the US.  Exploring new places, attending concerts, meeting new people.   I've always looked fondly on going there.

This put's a worse feeling in the pit of my stomach than when covid started.   Our biggest ally turned on us.  I'm pretty concerned that it go could beyond economic.   If the same people that voted him in, are coerced by their media that we're the bad guys.  Holy crap :(

I don't think we should underestimate this move, that's for sure. None of us know where it will lead obviously, but anyone who thinks it is impossible that this could be the beginning of the US turning Canada into an actual enemy to conquer is being naive IMO. I think it is a realistic possibility given the way things are going right now. If it isn't a direct path to it, the seeds have at least been sowed. Of course I'm not suggesting the American Reich will be marching across the border anytime soon, but damn... i see no reason not to be imagining it anyway, you know?

I know you both know this, but a huge number of us- me included- think Canada is a wonderful country, and our Canadian friends (yeah, you and you!) are fine people.  I have good memories of Mexico as well.  Be glad you're not on this side of the fence.  Many of us are literally sickened to death by what is happening here.  And it just gets worse every day.  Today was majorly bad.  The people who voted for this may not think so- but that's like standing under a falling piano and saying, "I got it!".  Yeah, right, we'll see how that turns out.

Anyway, take good care of yourselves.

dignin

The Canadian government has been warned if we retaliate the US will hit us harder.

Chin up fellow canucks. Fuck them and let's dig in.

brianlux

dignin said:

The Canadian government has been warned if we retaliate the US will hit us harder.

Chin up fellow canucks. Fuck them and let's dig in.

So, does that mean "fuck you" to all of us in the U.S., even if we are strongly against the tariffs, even if, as I just did above, acknowledge our feeling friendly toward Canada and Canadians, even if we abhor what is being done.  Great, just a big "fuck you" to all of us?  Jesus Christ, man.  Fuck that.