Canadian Politics Redux

DarthMaeglin

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

so it's Trudeau's fault that PP became Con leader. haha. That's a new one. 

He's not flip flopping. He's trying to reason with a fucking chimp. There's a lot of nuance in walking that line. His campaign "rhetoric" was reinvesting, literally and figuratively, in Canada. How is he not doing that? 

Elbows Up turned into kissing ass.

I’m done with you, kindly don’t reply to my posts moving forward.

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

when was Scheer a traitor, exactly? I don't recall that being a thing

Check your memory or do some research before shitting on the points of view of others.

he's not kissing his ass. he's being diplomatic while keeping our interests at the front. 

you can put me on ignore if you don't want to see what I have to say. But I'll respond to whomever I like. 

This wasn't shitting on anything. I literally don't recall that being a thing. If you don't want to engage, fine, but it's a discussion forum. You post a point, expect to be asked for receipts. Jeez. This isn't new. 

If you can’t respect my politely expressed request, you prove that I’m not the problem here.

HughFreakingDillon

click on my profile. click on the little person next to the message button, and choose "ignore". There, now you won't have to see if I've disobeyed you or not. 

DarthMaeglin

HughFreakingDillon said:

click on my profile. click on the little person next to the message button, and choose "ignore". There, now you won't have to see if I've disobeyed you or not. 

You really want me to get myself in trouble again it seems. We’re not allowed to call spades shovels around here.

Sea

Please take personal arguments off the forum.  If you cannot get along with someone please put them on your Ignore list. You are not ignoring the person if you are replying to them.  Please do not put your posting privileges at risk. Thank you.

Lerxst1992

HughFreakingDillon said:

when was Scheer a traitor, exactly? I don't recall that being a thing

Happens here also, (at times) shadow quoting to take the original comment out of context, which was likely hyperbole being aggressively reinterpreted as literal, it seems.

I certainly don’t appreciate that tactic in the US topics and interesting to find the same  here. Yes it’s Adhering to the literal rules of the forum but breaking the spirit. Take an extreme version of another’s comment and manipulate facts and shadow quote away. Zero attempt to get at the intended meaning to reach a point where we can have reasoned and polite debate (at least once in a while), which was the owners intention when creating A Moving Train. 

Nope, those that disagree are always having false memories or poor fact retention or we are just dumb. I’ve been down that path here often.

so I did a little research. I understand what Darth was saying and I admit knowing nearly nothing about my neighboring country’s politics. A point that is good advice that many on this forum can benefit from, especially NY politics. 

I clearly understood Darths comment once I did a five second google, and based in my experience with these debating tactics, I’m sure their comments were understood at the time of the above reply as well. But conveniently, it’s not here. 

HughFreakingDillon

Lerxst1992 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

when was Scheer a traitor, exactly? I don't recall that being a thing

Happens here also, (at times) shadow quoting to take the original comment out of context, which was likely hyperbole being aggressively reinterpreted as literal, it seems.

I certainly don’t appreciate that tactic in the US topics and interesting to find the same  here. Yes it’s Adhering to the literal rules of the forum but breaking the spirit. Take an extreme version of another’s comment and manipulate facts and shadow quote away. Zero attempt to get at the intended meaning to reach a point where we can have reasoned and polite debate (at least once in a while), which was the owners intention when creating A Moving Train. 

Nope, those that disagree are always having false memories or poor fact retention or we are just dumb. I’ve been down that path here often.

so I did a little research. I understand what Darth was saying and I admit knowing nearly nothing about my neighboring country’s politics. A point that is good advice that many on this forum can benefit from, especially NY politics. 

I clearly understood Darths comment once I did a five second google, and based in my experience with these debating tactics, I’m sure their comments were understood at the time of the above reply as well. But conveniently, it’s not here. 

"remember when it was treasonous that Scheer held dual citizenship". Being treasonous is being a traitor. How did I take that out of context? I didn't. Again with the "shadow quoting". Give it a rest. I get tired of the endless scrolling through the forums because of all the quoting. I quote if my reply isn't obviously a direct reply to a comment. This was obviously a direct reply. This isn't difficult. 

It's a discussion forum. I don't show other's work. No, I don't recall that being a thing. I didn't know if he meant here, or in the public sphere. A simple answer would have sufficed. I was legit interested. Cuz, and I know this will shock you, I like I challenge my own biases. But instead I get some weird out of place aggression based on past grievances. 

HughFreakingDillon

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

click on my profile. click on the little person next to the message button, and choose "ignore". There, now you won't have to see if I've disobeyed you or not. 

You really want me to get myself in trouble again it seems. We’re not allowed to call spades shovels around here.

I honestly don't know what I did that hit a nerve. I sincerely wasn't trying to do that. I was asking legit questions. But I am not going to be bullied by "polite requests" who to respond to and who not to respond to. 

HughFreakingDillon

Sea said:

Please take personal arguments off the forum.  If you cannot get along with someone please put them on your Ignore list. You are not ignoring the person if you are replying to them.  Please do not put your posting privileges at risk. Thank you.

See? It was a normal suggestion. 

HughFreakingDillon

Parksy said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Parksy said:

PJ_Soul said:

I am not a fan of Doug Ford either, and am legit worried about him becoming PM someday - I actually think he might have a good shot at it, which is disturbing. But I don't mind saying that I do kind of like how he deals with the Trump issue. 

To put it very mildly, I'm no fan of Trump.  But like chess, you have to understand your adversary. Based strictly on numbers... if Trump maintains his trade war with Canada, he wins. Who he hurts, etc. doesn't matter, especially to him. But by the numbers, he wins. So... we find ourselves at that disadvantage. If I'm Ford... or Carney.. and I don't like what Trump is doing...  you have to navigate delicately or you'll be undoubtedly burned. 

I'm sure they understand him very well. Ford knew there was going to be blowback. But it boosted his own popularity in the process, which I'm sure was mostly the point. That idiot is so volatile with his stupid threats that I don't know if the Reagan ad moved the needle that much. He threatens harsher tariffs more often than he takes a McDump. 

I know Carney had no choice but to apologize for it, but I still thought it was funny. 

Granted but... the temper tantrum made us pull the ads. The $75M we paid for the ads was given to who? If I understand correctly some or most of it went to Fox.  So we paid $75M to temporarily run ads that kind of blew up in our face and a lot of that money went to the Trump propaganda machine that is Fox.  If I'm Trump, I'm laughing my ass off. 

And there are a lot of people who support the ads... but I can't understand why.  This ad debacle only showcased how we didn't think two steps ahead. 

Only analogy I can think of is that Canada is a good hard working person working at a company with a doosh-bag boss.  And while every one wants to put the D-Bag in his place...  it costs you your job. So you have to look big picture... in my opinion. 

Also.. it's not lost on me how awful this shit storm is because of Trump.

I think some support the ads because of this new found Canadian patriotism, however humble we're still trying to be about it. 

I think Doug Ford did think two steps ahead (not fond of giving that guy credit, however). I think he got out of it what he wanted. While Carney took the heat. Kind of like a hockey fight. Sometimes an enforcer will deem it's necessary to light a fire, even if it means the coach takes it on the chin after in the post game presser. 

Parksy

HughFreakingDillon said:

Parksy said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Parksy said:

PJ_Soul said:

I am not a fan of Doug Ford either, and am legit worried about him becoming PM someday - I actually think he might have a good shot at it, which is disturbing. But I don't mind saying that I do kind of like how he deals with the Trump issue. 

To put it very mildly, I'm no fan of Trump.  But like chess, you have to understand your adversary. Based strictly on numbers... if Trump maintains his trade war with Canada, he wins. Who he hurts, etc. doesn't matter, especially to him. But by the numbers, he wins. So... we find ourselves at that disadvantage. If I'm Ford... or Carney.. and I don't like what Trump is doing...  you have to navigate delicately or you'll be undoubtedly burned. 

I'm sure they understand him very well. Ford knew there was going to be blowback. But it boosted his own popularity in the process, which I'm sure was mostly the point. That idiot is so volatile with his stupid threats that I don't know if the Reagan ad moved the needle that much. He threatens harsher tariffs more often than he takes a McDump. 

I know Carney had no choice but to apologize for it, but I still thought it was funny. 

Granted but... the temper tantrum made us pull the ads. The $75M we paid for the ads was given to who? If I understand correctly some or most of it went to Fox.  So we paid $75M to temporarily run ads that kind of blew up in our face and a lot of that money went to the Trump propaganda machine that is Fox.  If I'm Trump, I'm laughing my ass off. 

And there are a lot of people who support the ads... but I can't understand why.  This ad debacle only showcased how we didn't think two steps ahead. 

Only analogy I can think of is that Canada is a good hard working person working at a company with a doosh-bag boss.  And while every one wants to put the D-Bag in his place...  it costs you your job. So you have to look big picture... in my opinion. 

Also.. it's not lost on me how awful this shit storm is because of Trump.

I think some support the ads because of this new found Canadian patriotism, however humble we're still trying to be about it. 

I think Doug Ford did think two steps ahead (not fond of giving that guy credit, however). I think he got out of it what he wanted. While Carney took the heat. Kind of like a hockey fight. Sometimes an enforcer will deem it's necessary to light a fire, even if it means the coach takes it on the chin after in the post game presser. 

I agree.  My fear is that our new found patriotism is also turning into our new found stupidity. 

ally12

What a wild week for our politics. 

They almost have the budget passed.

anyone here a public servant? 

PJ_Soul

Parksy said:

PJ_Soul said:

Parksy said:

PJ_Soul said:

I am not a fan of Doug Ford either, and am legit worried about him becoming PM someday - I actually think he might have a good shot at it, which is disturbing. But I don't mind saying that I do kind of like how he deals with the Trump issue. 

To put it very mildly, I'm no fan of Trump.  But like chess, you have to understand your adversary. Based strictly on numbers... if Trump maintains his trade war with Canada, he wins. Who he hurts, etc. doesn't matter, especially to him. But by the numbers, he wins. So... we find ourselves at that disadvantage. If I'm Ford... or Carney.. and I don't like what Trump is doing...  you have to navigate delicately or you'll be undoubtedly burned. 

This goes way beyond Trump, ultimately. I expect the US to sink farther and farther into the abyss over time. It is not going to reign over the world's economy forever. I am excited that all of this, including Trump's temper tantrums against Canada, is finally forcing Canada to begin its shift away from the US economically. I know it will be painful, but Canada has to slowly start making that economic shift now rather than later, because ultimately, over many generations into the future, as the US continues its inevitable decline, Canada will be in a better position. That ad helped that in its own little way. 

I very respectfully disagree.  And that may be because I'm clinging onto hope that America smartens the fuck up. Not that it has a great history or track record to begin with but Trumpism is just insanity. 

A good relationship with America is the best path forward for Canada. For obvious logistical and military reasons, but also cultural. I understand why a lot of people don't want to hear that now... but looking ahead it makes sense. 

And what we're doing or planning on doing is also just odd.  We're 'diversifying' our trade relations sure, which is good. But our best dance partner seems to be China. Last I checked, they're not exactly a shining diamond compared to America. Amongst the long list of reasons that makes them shitty, they also recently tried to manipulate our elections etc.

Sad to say... but the world is getting fucked by a lot of assholes with money, power, and big weapons. 

Disclaimer: I understand the following comment is purely theoretical... however... 

Canada is unique in a few ways looking ahead to say 2050. We have oil, land, and critical minerals. We also two other things that I think will play a role in the future due to climate change. Fresh water and the arctic passage.  If... If things keep going the way they're going... rising temperatures, melting ice etc.... two things will happen up north:  1. Ecosystems will go bye-bye. (the common person cares, but governments and corporations do not.) 2. The northwest passage will become accessible for trade.  Canada becomes the new Panama. Speaking plainly, we either have now or will in the future have what other people want. I know the way Carney speaks now is very positive which is good. But... I just don't think we're powerful enough to make ourselves the great nation we could be. We don't have the people and we really, really, really don't have the military.

I hear, but i just don't have that hope that America will smarten the fuck up. I think it's slowly going down the drain, I want Canada to start getting ahead of it now. I appreciate that Trump's insanity is kickstarting it. America's probs aren't going away when Trump kicks the bucket. If anything, the Christian nationalists will get a tighter stranglehold, and there are few things I want less than Canada having a really strong economic relationship ship with that... Not that I don't also have all kinds of problems with the future of Canada's economic relationship with China. That is just my pessimistic opinion. 

HughFreakingDillon

PJ_Soul said:

Parksy said:

PJ_Soul said:

Parksy said:

PJ_Soul said:

I am not a fan of Doug Ford either, and am legit worried about him becoming PM someday - I actually think he might have a good shot at it, which is disturbing. But I don't mind saying that I do kind of like how he deals with the Trump issue. 

To put it very mildly, I'm no fan of Trump.  But like chess, you have to understand your adversary. Based strictly on numbers... if Trump maintains his trade war with Canada, he wins. Who he hurts, etc. doesn't matter, especially to him. But by the numbers, he wins. So... we find ourselves at that disadvantage. If I'm Ford... or Carney.. and I don't like what Trump is doing...  you have to navigate delicately or you'll be undoubtedly burned. 

This goes way beyond Trump, ultimately. I expect the US to sink farther and farther into the abyss over time. It is not going to reign over the world's economy forever. I am excited that all of this, including Trump's temper tantrums against Canada, is finally forcing Canada to begin its shift away from the US economically. I know it will be painful, but Canada has to slowly start making that economic shift now rather than later, because ultimately, over many generations into the future, as the US continues its inevitable decline, Canada will be in a better position. That ad helped that in its own little way. 

I very respectfully disagree.  And that may be because I'm clinging onto hope that America smartens the fuck up. Not that it has a great history or track record to begin with but Trumpism is just insanity. 

A good relationship with America is the best path forward for Canada. For obvious logistical and military reasons, but also cultural. I understand why a lot of people don't want to hear that now... but looking ahead it makes sense. 

And what we're doing or planning on doing is also just odd.  We're 'diversifying' our trade relations sure, which is good. But our best dance partner seems to be China. Last I checked, they're not exactly a shining diamond compared to America. Amongst the long list of reasons that makes them shitty, they also recently tried to manipulate our elections etc.

Sad to say... but the world is getting fucked by a lot of assholes with money, power, and big weapons. 

Disclaimer: I understand the following comment is purely theoretical... however... 

Canada is unique in a few ways looking ahead to say 2050. We have oil, land, and critical minerals. We also two other things that I think will play a role in the future due to climate change. Fresh water and the arctic passage.  If... If things keep going the way they're going... rising temperatures, melting ice etc.... two things will happen up north:  1. Ecosystems will go bye-bye. (the common person cares, but governments and corporations do not.) 2. The northwest passage will become accessible for trade.  Canada becomes the new Panama. Speaking plainly, we either have now or will in the future have what other people want. I know the way Carney speaks now is very positive which is good. But... I just don't think we're powerful enough to make ourselves the great nation we could be. We don't have the people and we really, really, really don't have the military.

I hear, but i just don't have that hope that America will smarten the fuck up. I think it's slowly going down the drain, I want Canada to start getting ahead of it now. I appreciate that Trump's insanity is kickstarting it. America's probs aren't going away when Trump kicks the bucket. If anything, the Christian nationalists will get a tighter stranglehold, and there are few things I want less than Canada having a really strong economic relationship ship with that... Not that I don't also have all kinds of problems with the future of Canada's economic relationship with China. That is just my pessimistic opinion. 

we don't survive having no/little economic relationship with the US. full stop. while I do think the US is in decline, although not as quickly as you do, I also don't see another trump coming down the pike. once he's gone, there will still be broken craziness down there, but not what it is now, I don't think. 

Gern Blansten

static111 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Kat said:

DE4173 said:

I ❤️ Canada

I was born in Detroit and they are my neighbors. I Canada too.

Thanks, PJ_Soul.

I was also born in the D....William Beaumont Hospital in Royal Oak

My kids aren't impressed because we moved to Louisville when I was one.

Royal Oak is not Detroit.  My mother was born in actual Detroit as were a number of my older family members.  No one considers royal oak, ferndale grosse point etc the D!

Don't question my Dness.

Immediately after birth I was driven to my parents home in the D so therefore, I'm from the D...I learned to walk in the D dammit

static111

Gern Blansten said:

static111 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Kat said:

DE4173 said:

I ❤️ Canada

I was born in Detroit and they are my neighbors. I Canada too.

Thanks, PJ_Soul.

I was also born in the D....William Beaumont Hospital in Royal Oak

My kids aren't impressed because we moved to Louisville when I was one.

Royal Oak is not Detroit.  My mother was born in actual Detroit as were a number of my older family members.  No one considers royal oak, ferndale grosse point etc the D!

Don't question my Dness.

Immediately after birth I was driven to my parents home in the D so therefore, I'm from the D...I learned to walk in the D dammit

Well damn I didn't know you lived there.  Most people born in royal oak live there.  I didn't realize your parents took you to the suburbs just to be delivered lol.

Gern Blansten

static111 said:

Gern Blansten said:

static111 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Kat said:

DE4173 said:

I ❤️ Canada

I was born in Detroit and they are my neighbors. I Canada too.

Thanks, PJ_Soul.

I was also born in the D....William Beaumont Hospital in Royal Oak

My kids aren't impressed because we moved to Louisville when I was one.

Royal Oak is not Detroit.  My mother was born in actual Detroit as were a number of my older family members.  No one considers royal oak, ferndale grosse point etc the D!

Don't question my Dness.

Immediately after birth I was driven to my parents home in the D so therefore, I'm from the D...I learned to walk in the D dammit

Well damn I didn't know you lived there.  Most people born in royal oak live there.  I didn't realize your parents took you to the suburbs just to be delivered lol.

Yeah my Dad was a veterinarian and we lived above the vet clinic he worked at which was right off 8 Mile Road...probably just closer to the hospital where they were at

Kat

Gern Blansten said:

static111 said:

Gern Blansten said:

static111 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Kat said:

DE4173 said:

I ❤️ Canada

I was born in Detroit and they are my neighbors. I Canada too.

Thanks, PJ_Soul.

I was also born in the D....William Beaumont Hospital in Royal Oak

My kids aren't impressed because we moved to Louisville when I was one.

Royal Oak is not Detroit.  My mother was born in actual Detroit as were a number of my older family members.  No one considers royal oak, ferndale grosse point etc the D!

Don't question my Dness.

Immediately after birth I was driven to my parents home in the D so therefore, I'm from the D...I learned to walk in the D dammit

Well damn I didn't know you lived there.  Most people born in royal oak live there.  I didn't realize your parents took you to the suburbs just to be delivered lol.

Yeah my Dad was a veterinarian and we lived above the vet clinic he worked at which was right off 8 Mile Road...probably just closer to the hospital where they were at

Mount Carmel Mercy Hospital for me. Early days we lived near Fenkell and Wyoming. Dness. Go Lions.

Gern Blansten

Kat said:

Gern Blansten said:

static111 said:

Gern Blansten said:

static111 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Kat said:

DE4173 said:

I ❤️ Canada

I was born in Detroit and they are my neighbors. I Canada too.

Thanks, PJ_Soul.

I was also born in the D....William Beaumont Hospital in Royal Oak

My kids aren't impressed because we moved to Louisville when I was one.

Royal Oak is not Detroit.  My mother was born in actual Detroit as were a number of my older family members.  No one considers royal oak, ferndale grosse point etc the D!

Don't question my Dness.

Immediately after birth I was driven to my parents home in the D so therefore, I'm from the D...I learned to walk in the D dammit

Well damn I didn't know you lived there.  Most people born in royal oak live there.  I didn't realize your parents took you to the suburbs just to be delivered lol.

Yeah my Dad was a veterinarian and we lived above the vet clinic he worked at which was right off 8 Mile Road...probably just closer to the hospital where they were at

Mount Carmel Mercy Hospital for me. Early days we lived near Fenkell and Wyoming. Dness. Go Lions. :smile

Not too far from where I lived...I always followed the Lions but never got into the Tigers

PJ_Soul

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

Parksy said:

PJ_Soul said:

Parksy said:

PJ_Soul said:

I am not a fan of Doug Ford either, and am legit worried about him becoming PM someday - I actually think he might have a good shot at it, which is disturbing. But I don't mind saying that I do kind of like how he deals with the Trump issue. 

To put it very mildly, I'm no fan of Trump.  But like chess, you have to understand your adversary. Based strictly on numbers... if Trump maintains his trade war with Canada, he wins. Who he hurts, etc. doesn't matter, especially to him. But by the numbers, he wins. So... we find ourselves at that disadvantage. If I'm Ford... or Carney.. and I don't like what Trump is doing...  you have to navigate delicately or you'll be undoubtedly burned. 

This goes way beyond Trump, ultimately. I expect the US to sink farther and farther into the abyss over time. It is not going to reign over the world's economy forever. I am excited that all of this, including Trump's temper tantrums against Canada, is finally forcing Canada to begin its shift away from the US economically. I know it will be painful, but Canada has to slowly start making that economic shift now rather than later, because ultimately, over many generations into the future, as the US continues its inevitable decline, Canada will be in a better position. That ad helped that in its own little way. 

I very respectfully disagree.  And that may be because I'm clinging onto hope that America smartens the fuck up. Not that it has a great history or track record to begin with but Trumpism is just insanity. 

A good relationship with America is the best path forward for Canada. For obvious logistical and military reasons, but also cultural. I understand why a lot of people don't want to hear that now... but looking ahead it makes sense. 

And what we're doing or planning on doing is also just odd.  We're 'diversifying' our trade relations sure, which is good. But our best dance partner seems to be China. Last I checked, they're not exactly a shining diamond compared to America. Amongst the long list of reasons that makes them shitty, they also recently tried to manipulate our elections etc.

Sad to say... but the world is getting fucked by a lot of assholes with money, power, and big weapons. 

Disclaimer: I understand the following comment is purely theoretical... however... 

Canada is unique in a few ways looking ahead to say 2050. We have oil, land, and critical minerals. We also two other things that I think will play a role in the future due to climate change. Fresh water and the arctic passage.  If... If things keep going the way they're going... rising temperatures, melting ice etc.... two things will happen up north:  1. Ecosystems will go bye-bye. (the common person cares, but governments and corporations do not.) 2. The northwest passage will become accessible for trade.  Canada becomes the new Panama. Speaking plainly, we either have now or will in the future have what other people want. I know the way Carney speaks now is very positive which is good. But... I just don't think we're powerful enough to make ourselves the great nation we could be. We don't have the people and we really, really, really don't have the military.

I hear, but i just don't have that hope that America will smarten the fuck up. I think it's slowly going down the drain, I want Canada to start getting ahead of it now. I appreciate that Trump's insanity is kickstarting it. America's probs aren't going away when Trump kicks the bucket. If anything, the Christian nationalists will get a tighter stranglehold, and there are few things I want less than Canada having a really strong economic relationship ship with that... Not that I don't also have all kinds of problems with the future of Canada's economic relationship with China. That is just my pessimistic opinion. 

we don't survive having no/little economic relationship with the US. full stop. while I do think the US is in decline, although not as quickly as you do, I also don't see another trump coming down the pike. once he's gone, there will still be broken craziness down there, but not what it is now, I don't think. 

Oh, I don't think it's going to happen quickly at all. I'm talking the long game. And I know Canada couldn't have no economic relationship. I said I don't want it to have a really strong one, like it does now. Finally, I also don't see another Trump coming down the pike. I see something just as bad or worse coming though. Not immediately, necessarily, but it's coming.