Hillary won more votes for President

PJ_Soul

I agree it's by far the worst that I'm aware of. It's nuts. I can't believe the politicians let it get to this point.... Now that they've basically hit rock bottom, the only direction now is up... right???

BS44325

On hacking...

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/07/us/hillary-clintons-email-was-probably-hacked-experts-say.html?_r=0

rssesq

What our current choices are have me longing for the days of outstanding candidates like Gore v. W. Those were the days, when only one idiot was running

Free

rssesq said:

What our current choices are have me longing for the days of outstanding candidates like Gore v. W. Those were the days, when only one idiot was running

Kat

BS44325 said:

On hacking...

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/07/us/hillary-clintons-email-was-probably-hacked-experts-say.html?_r=0

More speculation and smear without a fact to be presented. How far the media have fallen to take that and make it a news story. Sad.

Cliffy6745

While there is speculation that Hillary's email was probably hacked, it is a fact that the State Department's email was hacked....

BS44325

Kat said:

BS44325 said:

On hacking...

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/07/us/hillary-clintons-email-was-probably-hacked-experts-say.html?_r=0

More speculation and smear without a fact to be presented. How far the media have fallen to take that and make it a news story. Sad.

You are a looking away from what is obvious.

Another story that laws are for the little people

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/08/14/hero-marine-nailed-for-sending-classified-report-from-personal-email.html

PJ_Soul

Cliffy6745 said:

While there is speculation that Hillary's email was probably hacked, it is a fact that the State Department's email was hacked....

Good point. Yeah, government files are not safe no matter what Hillary did or didn't do. http://motherboard.vice.com/read/fbi-flash-alert-hacking-group-has-had-access-to-us-govt-files-for-years

mrussel1

BS44325 said:

Kat said:

BS44325 said:

On hacking...

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/07/us/hillary-clintons-email-was-probably-hacked-experts-say.html?_r=0

More speculation and smear without a fact to be presented. How far the media have fallen to take that and make it a news story. Sad.

You are a looking away from what is obvious.

Another story that laws are for the little people

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/08/14/hero-marine-nailed-for-sending-classified-report-from-personal-email.html

A few things:

1. He wasn't charged with a crime, he was being discharged. Those are two different things. I don't see him sitting in Leavenworth.
2. The UCMJ is not the same as civilian law. You don't know the differences, nor do I unless you are a part time JAG.
3. His discharge has been delayed for at least 8 months while a Federal judge reviews the decision along with the Naval department.

You're short on all the facts. http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/story/military/2016/03/09/embattled-marine-wins-temporary-reprieve-fight-save-his-career/81521984/

Cliffy6745

I get the point of the AC rally today and I think it was a smart move and is very fitting. That said, I'd like Hillary to take her foot off the gas a bit on the Trump attacks, talk about policy (while pointing out Trump has none), and leave the Trump bashing to Obama, Bill, Warren and the likes. Show that she is smart, capable and presidential. Leave the dirty stuff up to the other popular folks.

Kat

What is obvious is that the Director of the FBI recommends no charges be filed.
Also obvious, Secretary Clinton haters will never accept that fact.
I would not prosecute that marine for his mistake. I hope the powers that be find another way to handle his error with the classified material. In general, I tend to feel that good people shouldn't be severely punished for an honest mistake. If they did it repeatedly, that's another story. In judging others, it should be fair and reasonable, right?

what dreams

Dirtie_Frank said:

Gern Blansten said:

Dirtie_Frank said:

Here is the bottom line. Classified emails DO NOT belong on a unclassified server. Whether it is state.gov, Gmail.com or HRC.org (Not sure what she used), Classified belongs on classified networks, like sgov or smil. There is a reason these things are not allowed on normal computer networks. Whether it was her or her staff that sent the first email classified, CONFIDENTIAL, SECRET or TOP SECRET, it should have ended then. The sender or receiver should have contacted their Staff Security Officer to report the violation, however they continued on. There continued disregard is what has people pissed, you can call it politics, it is the truth. I have worked for and with the government to know that these things should not have happened or continued. Comey stated it in his speech yesterday that anyone that works with classified should have known this was not allowed. At the very least Clinton and her staff should have their clearance revoked.

Right...so if someone decides to put classified information in a non classified email and does not mark it as such (this was Clinton's argument...that none of the items received or sent were "Marked" classified) then how could they possibly prosecute?

You can argue that she should have known some information was classified....but how is the receiver to know exactly? As mentioned...a lot of times these people were travelling and it just wasn't possible to use the secure systems.

She should have reported it. People who work in classified environments know, especially people who are in charge.

The compromise of Top Secret information is expected to cause “exceptionally grave damage” to our national security. Hillary Clinton mishandled 8 Top Secret emails with 7 at the Special Access Program level which may include black projects, nuclear info, ect. This is the absolute highest level of our nations guarded secrets.

Out of the 110 classified emails, 32 chains contained Secret information. This is the second highest classification that could cause “serious damage” to our national security.

Finally, she mishandled 2,000 additional emails which were up-classified with 8 being classified at the time. These are the lowest level which would still cause irreparable harm and “damage” to our national security if disclosed.

So, assuming this "grossly negligent conduct" occurred, I would expect the next news story to reveal the national security catastrophe that resulted from her sending/receiving the 8 Top Secret emails. My reasonable inference is that if these Top Secret emails were somehow compromised and caused a national security crisis, we would have heard about that.

So please tell us: exactly which national security crisis are these e-mails responsible for? What do you know about their content that the rest of us don't? Who died? When, where, how? Which military secret is no longer a secret?

My guess is: nothing. The email exchange resulted in nothing. At least nothing that has changed -any- of our lives at all.

mrussel1

Kat said:

What is obvious is that the Director of the FBI recommends no charges be filed.
Also obvious, Secretary Clinton haters will never accept that fact.
I would not prosecute that marine for his mistake. I hope the powers that be find another way to handle his error with the classified material. In general, I tend to feel that good people shouldn't be severely punished for an honest mistake. If they did it repeatedly, that's another story. In judging others, it should be fair and reasonable, right?

Kat - few things...
He wasn't being prosecuted for a crime, he was being discharged. Now that might affect his pension, standing, etc. so nothing to sneeze at, but nothing with a felony on the record, jail time, etc.
Second, posted another link from this year showing that his case is being reviewed and he hasn't been discharged yet. There's a lot of criticism against the two generals or JAGs that presided his case.

mrussel1

Cliffy6745 said:

I get the point of the AC rally today and I think it was a smart move and is very fitting. That said, I'd like Hillary to take her foot off the gas a bit on the Trump attacks, talk about policy (while pointing out Trump has none), and leave the Trump bashing to Obama, Bill, Warren and the likes. Show that she is smart, capable and presidential. Leave the dirty stuff up to the other popular folks.

Agreed.. that's usually left for the VP candidate. You're right, it's time to go positive.

what dreams

Kat said:

Dirtie_Frank said:

Here is the bottom line. Classified emails DO NOT belong on a unclassified server. Whether it is state.gov, Gmail.com or HRC.org (Not sure what she used), Classified belongs on classified networks, like sgov or smil. There is a reason these things are not allowed on normal computer networks. Whether it was her or her staff that sent the first email classified, CONFIDENTIAL, SECRET or TOP SECRET, it should have ended then. The sender or receiver should have contacted their Staff Security Officer to report the violation, however they continued on. There continued disregard is what has people pissed, you can call it politics, it is the truth. I have worked for and with the government to know that these things should not have happened or continued. Comey stated it in his speech yesterday that anyone that works with classified should have known this was not allowed. At the very least Clinton and her staff should have their clearance revoked.

Here's the thing that I can't get past. If it's such a horrendous horrible and major issue and the people yelling about it the loudest really cared, I mean seriously were in such a frenzy over the issue of emails and their security,...why, WHY is it only about Hillary's emails?
http://www.newsweek.com/2016/02/19/colin-powell-emails-hillary-clinton-424187.html

Oh wait, I know the answer.

Thank you! The part of Comey's statement that struck me the most was when he said one consideration is to account for previous behavior. That would mean if Clinton is indicted, so must be Powell. And we know THAT will never happen. He's male, he's black, he's a former general. The GOP would never in a million years go after him.

mrussel1

what dreams said:

Kat said:

Dirtie_Frank said:

Here is the bottom line. Classified emails DO NOT belong on a unclassified server. Whether it is state.gov, Gmail.com or HRC.org (Not sure what she used), Classified belongs on classified networks, like sgov or smil. There is a reason these things are not allowed on normal computer networks. Whether it was her or her staff that sent the first email classified, CONFIDENTIAL, SECRET or TOP SECRET, it should have ended then. The sender or receiver should have contacted their Staff Security Officer to report the violation, however they continued on. There continued disregard is what has people pissed, you can call it politics, it is the truth. I have worked for and with the government to know that these things should not have happened or continued. Comey stated it in his speech yesterday that anyone that works with classified should have known this was not allowed. At the very least Clinton and her staff should have their clearance revoked.

Here's the thing that I can't get past. If it's such a horrendous horrible and major issue and the people yelling about it the loudest really cared, I mean seriously were in such a frenzy over the issue of emails and their security,...why, WHY is it only about Hillary's emails?
http://www.newsweek.com/2016/02/19/colin-powell-emails-hillary-clinton-424187.html

Oh wait, I know the answer.

Thank you! The part of Comey's statement that struck me the most was when he said one consideration is to account for previous behavior. That would mean if Clinton is indicted, so must be Powell. And we know THAT will never happen. He's male, he's black, he's a former general. The GOP would never in a million years go after him.

It's an indictment of the State Department which Comey did say yesterday and got State department all banged up.

what dreams

mrussel1 said:

what dreams said:

Kat said:

Dirtie_Frank said:

Here is the bottom line. Classified emails DO NOT belong on a unclassified server. Whether it is state.gov, Gmail.com or HRC.org (Not sure what she used), Classified belongs on classified networks, like sgov or smil. There is a reason these things are not allowed on normal computer networks. Whether it was her or her staff that sent the first email classified, CONFIDENTIAL, SECRET or TOP SECRET, it should have ended then. The sender or receiver should have contacted their Staff Security Officer to report the violation, however they continued on. There continued disregard is what has people pissed, you can call it politics, it is the truth. I have worked for and with the government to know that these things should not have happened or continued. Comey stated it in his speech yesterday that anyone that works with classified should have known this was not allowed. At the very least Clinton and her staff should have their clearance revoked.

Here's the thing that I can't get past. If it's such a horrendous horrible and major issue and the people yelling about it the loudest really cared, I mean seriously were in such a frenzy over the issue of emails and their security,...why, WHY is it only about Hillary's emails?
http://www.newsweek.com/2016/02/19/colin-powell-emails-hillary-clinton-424187.html

Oh wait, I know the answer.

Thank you! The part of Comey's statement that struck me the most was when he said one consideration is to account for previous behavior. That would mean if Clinton is indicted, so must be Powell. And we know THAT will never happen. He's male, he's black, he's a former general. The GOP would never in a million years go after him.

It's an indictment of the State Department which Comey did say yesterday and got State department all banged up.

He didn't say anything that the Inspector General hadn't already said. I thought it was weird that State got all fired up at him when their response to the IG was completely conciliatory. It's typical, I guess, for govt. agencies to snipe at rivals. I think there are way too many overlapping jurisdictions and the boys just don't know how to play nicely with other.

Kat

mrussel1 said:

Kat said:

What is obvious is that the Director of the FBI recommends no charges be filed.
Also obvious, Secretary Clinton haters will never accept that fact.
I would not prosecute that marine for his mistake. I hope the powers that be find another way to handle his error with the classified material. In general, I tend to feel that good people shouldn't be severely punished for an honest mistake. If they did it repeatedly, that's another story. In judging others, it should be fair and reasonable, right?

Kat - few things...
He wasn't being prosecuted for a crime, he was being discharged. Now that might affect his pension, standing, etc. so nothing to sneeze at, but nothing with a felony on the record, jail time, etc.
Second, posted another link from this year showing that his case is being reviewed and he hasn't been discharged yet. There's a lot of criticism against the two generals or JAGs that presided his case.

Thank you for that extra info. I hope the best for him. He was trying to do the right thing.

Dirtie_Frank

what dreams said:

Dirtie_Frank said:

Gern Blansten said:

Dirtie_Frank said:

Here is the bottom line. Classified emails DO NOT belong on a unclassified server. Whether it is state.gov, Gmail.com or HRC.org (Not sure what she used), Classified belongs on classified networks, like sgov or smil. There is a reason these things are not allowed on normal computer networks. Whether it was her or her staff that sent the first email classified, CONFIDENTIAL, SECRET or TOP SECRET, it should have ended then. The sender or receiver should have contacted their Staff Security Officer to report the violation, however they continued on. There continued disregard is what has people pissed, you can call it politics, it is the truth. I have worked for and with the government to know that these things should not have happened or continued. Comey stated it in his speech yesterday that anyone that works with classified should have known this was not allowed. At the very least Clinton and her staff should have their clearance revoked.

Right...so if someone decides to put classified information in a non classified email and does not mark it as such (this was Clinton's argument...that none of the items received or sent were "Marked" classified) then how could they possibly prosecute?

You can argue that she should have known some information was classified....but how is the receiver to know exactly? As mentioned...a lot of times these people were travelling and it just wasn't possible to use the secure systems.

She should have reported it. People who work in classified environments know, especially people who are in charge.

The compromise of Top Secret information is expected to cause “exceptionally grave damage” to our national security. Hillary Clinton mishandled 8 Top Secret emails with 7 at the Special Access Program level which may include black projects, nuclear info, ect. This is the absolute highest level of our nations guarded secrets.

Out of the 110 classified emails, 32 chains contained Secret information. This is the second highest classification that could cause “serious damage” to our national security.

Finally, she mishandled 2,000 additional emails which were up-classified with 8 being classified at the time. These are the lowest level which would still cause irreparable harm and “damage” to our national security if disclosed.

So, assuming this "grossly negligent conduct" occurred, I would expect the next news story to reveal the national security catastrophe that resulted from her sending/receiving the 8 Top Secret emails. My reasonable inference is that if these Top Secret emails were somehow compromised and caused a national security crisis, we would have heard about that.

So please tell us: exactly which national security crisis are these e-mails responsible for? What do you know about their content that the rest of us don't? Who died? When, where, how? Which military secret is no longer a secret?

My guess is: nothing. The email exchange resulted in nothing. At least nothing that has changed -any- of our lives at all.

I guess you have worked with classified material before. Do you know why information is classified? It is not just the information it can be the sources and methods used to collect the information. Seven emails contained Special Access Programs (SAP) information. Her flagrant disregard for classification could have cost the US a source, it could have put collectors life at risk, ruined a means to collect data, put a sources life at risk, there is a lot that could have been compromised but since you do not know what happened it could not have been that important. There are reasons this information is classified, they do not need your opinion as to why.

Halifax2TheMax

Where was the conservative outrage when Valerie Plame was outed? Obstensibly to ruin a career and lives for a massive coverup that cost 4,000+ American lives, 100,000s+ Iraqi lives, trillions in US debt and destabilized a whole region and gave rise to ISIS? You know real consequences of "mishandling", "disregarding" and being "careless" with sensitive, classified, secret and top secret information? Anyone remember Cheney's energy committee that drafted US energy policy behind closed doors? Didn't think so. Where the fuck was Trey Gowdy and that "I'm a warrior hear me roar" douche bag senator from Arkansas then? And the conservatives would like the rest of us to take them seriously and believe Hillary's a threat to national security? Please.