History says more than anything. It's more concrete than what he says today in his promise for the future.
Take that with a grain of salt.
We can sit here and argue about his history as a pro-lifer and as pro-choice, but I'm not going to sit around and hope that he's going to be pro-choice for our continuing future. His past is untrustworthy. He advocated for abstinence only sex education. That says a lot to me, now if he advocated for sex ed in high schools then I give him more leeway.
Please post his history of 2011 up till present please.
What is his history of pro life legislation?
will myself to find a home, a home within myself we will find a way, we will find our place
That last statement is an excellent point that is lost by most trump supporters.
The presidency is NOT an entry level position. But most trump supporters think that in order to go outside of the establishment, you need someone that has never been in politics. Not a good idea when most of his campaign revolves around foreign policy and foreign trade deals. I think trump vastly underestimates how experience in dealing with world leaders is more than just making a deal to host the miss universe pageant.
Obama had zero experience in 2008 and nobody cared. They didn't care when he ran against Hillary and they didn't care when he ran against McCain. Trump's real world experience easily outweighs both Clinton and Obama unless you think only people who have made their life inside government could possibly understand how to be President. That's just silly.
That last statement is an excellent point that is lost by most trump supporters.
The presidency is NOT an entry level position. But most trump supporters think that in order to go outside of the establishment, you need someone that has never been in politics. Not a good idea when most of his campaign revolves around foreign policy and foreign trade deals. I think trump vastly underestimates how experience in dealing with world leaders is more than just making a deal to host the miss universe pageant.
Obama had zero experience in 2008 and nobody cared. They didn't care when he ran against Hillary and they didn't care when he ran against McCain. Trump's real world experience easily outweighs both Clinton and Obama unless you think only people who have made their life inside government could possibly understand how to be President. That's just silly.
Trump's experience in no way makes him better prepared to be POTUS and leader of the free world, compared to HRC.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 41,040
Oh, politicians are they swell? They can tell you one thing and do another. They will make promises and never act on them once elected. You've got a politician here with a history of being pro-life, yet people will eat it up that he's actually pro choice because he says he now is.
Really, guys? Think about this...
It's a loosing battle. A republican dressed as a democrat with a coal man who wavers on women's right to choose or Trump (need I say more?) or a third party candidate with basically zero chance of winning. What a mess!
Interesting that you two are okay with Sanders and his evolution on gay marriage and his votes against gun control yet try to excoriate Kaine for been pro choice and having some common sense provisions.
OMG... he wants to reduce abortions and promote adoption?? What a piece of shit he is for that stance. Jesus Christ...
When did I say that? Buddha!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I was very impressed by Tim Kaine and his speech was terrific. He has a very deep resume and is ready to assume the Presidency if it's ever necessary, heaven forbid. His life story, which I'm glad he shared, demonstrates that he's a good man with a good heart. It sounds like his entire family shares in his efforts at public service too. This is in real opposition to the other party's nominee whose entire life seems to have been solely about self-aggrandizement and personal wealth. Wealth is fine, but philanthropy is an awesome thing once wealth has been achieved. I like people who share their wealth...and I don't believe the Presidency is an entry-level position.
It's interesting how you and so many other so-called progressives want to continue to support this ticket considering the reality that is Hillary Clinton. What a disappointment and shame
That last statement is an excellent point that is lost by most trump supporters.
The presidency is NOT an entry level position. But most trump supporters think that in order to go outside of the establishment, you need someone that has never been in politics. Not a good idea when most of his campaign revolves around foreign policy and foreign trade deals. I think trump vastly underestimates how experience in dealing with world leaders is more than just making a deal to host the miss universe pageant.
Obama had zero experience in 2008 and nobody cared. They didn't care when he ran against Hillary and they didn't care when he ran against McCain. Trump's real world experience easily outweighs both Clinton and Obama unless you think only people who have made their life inside government could possibly understand how to be President. That's just silly.
Trump's experience in no way makes him better prepared to be POTUS and leader of the free world, compared to HRC.
Oh, politicians are they swell? They can tell you one thing and do another. They will make promises and never act on them once elected. You've got a politician here with a history of being pro-life, yet people will eat it up that he's actually pro choice because he says he now is.
Really, guys? Think about this...
It's a loosing battle. A republican dressed as a democrat with a coal man who wavers on women's right to choose or Trump (need I say more?) or a third party candidate with basically zero chance of winning. What a mess!
Interesting that you two are okay with Sanders and his evolution on gay marriage and his votes against gun control yet try to excoriate Kaine for been pro choice and having some common sense provisions.
OMG... he wants to reduce abortions and promote adoption?? What a piece of shit he is for that stance. Jesus Christ...
When did I say that? Buddha!
You didn't... sorry, I quoted you after you quoted Free.
History says more than anything. It's more concrete than what he says today in his promise for the future.
So Senate votes are just words, promises for the future, got it.
That goes both ways, now doesn't it? He ran on a pro-life platform when running for governor in 2005... If I can admit he switched a short few years ago, then surely you can admit his pro-life history.
Any politician that flip-flops sides deserves more scrutinization.
That last statement is an excellent point that is lost by most trump supporters.
The presidency is NOT an entry level position. But most trump supporters think that in order to go outside of the establishment, you need someone that has never been in politics. Not a good idea when most of his campaign revolves around foreign policy and foreign trade deals. I think trump vastly underestimates how experience in dealing with world leaders is more than just making a deal to host the miss universe pageant.
Obama had zero experience in 2008 and nobody cared. They didn't care when he ran against Hillary and they didn't care when he ran against McCain. Trump's real world experience easily outweighs both Clinton and Obama unless you think only people who have made their life inside government could possibly understand how to be President. That's just silly.
That's not true at all. If I remember correctly, he was a senator.
will myself to find a home, a home within myself we will find a way, we will find our place
I was very impressed by Tim Kaine and his speech was terrific. He has a very deep resume and is ready to assume the Presidency if it's ever necessary, heaven forbid. His life story, which I'm glad he shared, demonstrates that he's a good man with a good heart. It sounds like his entire family shares in his efforts at public service too. This is in real opposition to the other party's nominee whose entire life seems to have been solely about self-aggrandizement and personal wealth. Wealth is fine, but philanthropy is an awesome thing once wealth has been achieved. I like people who share their wealth...and I don't believe the Presidency is an entry-level position.
It's interesting how you and so many other so-called progressives want to continue to support this ticket considering the reality that is Hillary Clinton. What a disappointment and shame
It's a disappointment and shame that you can't see the difference between a Trump presidency and a HRC presidency. Your search of 'perfect' leads you from 'good'. The ideological purity tests that are permeating the left today are reminiscent of just a few years ago and what happened on the right. We laughed at them and scoffed at the words RINO and how the Right wing base pulled the party further and further away from the center where most of the nation resides. And now it has culminated in a Trump nomination. And the rest of the candidates were just as embarrassing, not because they were not smart and capable, but because they get themselves twisted in knots trying not to offend the 'base' and their purity tests.
Well God forbid if the left wing pulls the same shit.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 41,040
I was very impressed by Tim Kaine and his speech was terrific. He has a very deep resume and is ready to assume the Presidency if it's ever necessary, heaven forbid. His life story, which I'm glad he shared, demonstrates that he's a good man with a good heart. It sounds like his entire family shares in his efforts at public service too. This is in real opposition to the other party's nominee whose entire life seems to have been solely about self-aggrandizement and personal wealth. Wealth is fine, but philanthropy is an awesome thing once wealth has been achieved. I like people who share their wealth...and I don't believe the Presidency is an entry-level position.
It's interesting how you and so many other so-called progressives want to continue to support this ticket considering the reality that is Hillary Clinton. What a disappointment and shame
I too am surprised at some of the support from progressives here for HRC. If it's just about voting against Trump I can sort of understand but to be progressive and support HRC for other reasons baffles me.
But, tonifig, what about the voting HRC as a way to insure we don't get stuck with Trump? I loath the idea of voting for a candidate I have no respect for, would much rather vote for Stein who is hugely more aligned with my way of thinking do we risk a Trump presidency. I'm going grey and pulling hairs all at the same time. Well, OK, hyperbole but seriously, this election is maddening. Thoughts?
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
That last statement is an excellent point that is lost by most trump supporters.
The presidency is NOT an entry level position. But most trump supporters think that in order to go outside of the establishment, you need someone that has never been in politics. Not a good idea when most of his campaign revolves around foreign policy and foreign trade deals. I think trump vastly underestimates how experience in dealing with world leaders is more than just making a deal to host the miss universe pageant.
Obama had zero experience in 2008 and nobody cared. They didn't care when he ran against Hillary and they didn't care when he ran against McCain. Trump's real world experience easily outweighs both Clinton and Obama unless you think only people who have made their life inside government could possibly understand how to be President. That's just silly.
That's not true at all. If I remember correctly, he was a senator.
Being a senator for two years might look good on a resumé but it hardly makes you experienced. I believed the same about Rubio, Cruz and Rand Paul. There is a reason why that prior to the election of Obama the US has primarily elected governors. Governors make decisions while senators yap then vote while almost never having to deal with the consequences.
That last statement is an excellent point that is lost by most trump supporters.
The presidency is NOT an entry level position. But most trump supporters think that in order to go outside of the establishment, you need someone that has never been in politics. Not a good idea when most of his campaign revolves around foreign policy and foreign trade deals. I think trump vastly underestimates how experience in dealing with world leaders is more than just making a deal to host the miss universe pageant.
Obama had zero experience in 2008 and nobody cared. They didn't care when he ran against Hillary and they didn't care when he ran against McCain. Trump's real world experience easily outweighs both Clinton and Obama unless you think only people who have made their life inside government could possibly understand how to be President. That's just silly.
That's not true at all. If I remember correctly, he was a senator.
Being a senator for two years might look good on a resumé but it hardly makes you experienced. I believed the same about Rubio, Cruz and Rand Paul. There is a reason why that prior to the election of Obama the US has primarily elected governors. Governors make decisions while senators yap then vote while almost never having to deal with the consequences.
Yeah I think JFK was the last senator directly elected, prior to Obama. There's no denying that BO did not have a thick resume prior to election, certainly not compared to McCain. But I think the experience is probably a bit over-hyped as a persuader for elections, as we can see by history.
What Barack did have was as strong grasp of the issues and the ability to articulate a policy in a way that people got behind. The question is whether Trump can become actually learn the issues and articulate them in the debates, or if HRC can become less wonkish.
Who knows, maybe Trump will just refuse to debate. He has refused to release taxes and that is about as shocking. There's no constitutional mandate to debate.
Saw Bernie on MTP or FTN this morning...can't remember which
He should have a pretty powerful speech at the convention. He was asked about who his supporters will support and he was pretty adamant that there is no other choice but Clinton if his supporters truly believe what he does.
So there...
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
That last statement is an excellent point that is lost by most trump supporters.
The presidency is NOT an entry level position. But most trump supporters think that in order to go outside of the establishment, you need someone that has never been in politics. Not a good idea when most of his campaign revolves around foreign policy and foreign trade deals. I think trump vastly underestimates how experience in dealing with world leaders is more than just making a deal to host the miss universe pageant.
Obama had zero experience in 2008 and nobody cared. They didn't care when he ran against Hillary and they didn't care when he ran against McCain. Trump's real world experience easily outweighs both Clinton and Obama unless you think only people who have made their life inside government could possibly understand how to be President. That's just silly.
That's not true at all. If I remember correctly, he was a senator.
Being a senator for two years might look good on a resumé but it hardly makes you experienced. I believed the same about Rubio, Cruz and Rand Paul. There is a reason why that prior to the election of Obama the US has primarily elected governors. Governors make decisions while senators yap then vote while almost never having to deal with the consequences.
But it's still more experience than what Trump has.
will myself to find a home, a home within myself we will find a way, we will find our place
That last statement is an excellent point that is lost by most trump supporters.
The presidency is NOT an entry level position. But most trump supporters think that in order to go outside of the establishment, you need someone that has never been in politics. Not a good idea when most of his campaign revolves around foreign policy and foreign trade deals. I think trump vastly underestimates how experience in dealing with world leaders is more than just making a deal to host the miss universe pageant.
Obama had zero experience in 2008 and nobody cared. They didn't care when he ran against Hillary and they didn't care when he ran against McCain. Trump's real world experience easily outweighs both Clinton and Obama unless you think only people who have made their life inside government could possibly understand how to be President. That's just silly.
That's not true at all. If I remember correctly, he was a senator.
Being a senator for two years might look good on a resumé but it hardly makes you experienced. I believed the same about Rubio, Cruz and Rand Paul. There is a reason why that prior to the election of Obama the US has primarily elected governors. Governors make decisions while senators yap then vote while almost never having to deal with the consequences.
But it's still more experience than what Trump has.
It depends on how you weigh people's accomplishments. In my eyes Kaine and Pence both have more experience then Clinton when it comes to government service. Trump's management of a global enterprise is different but far more approaches that of governor then anything Clinton has done.
That last statement is an excellent point that is lost by most trump supporters.
The presidency is NOT an entry level position. But most trump supporters think that in order to go outside of the establishment, you need someone that has never been in politics. Not a good idea when most of his campaign revolves around foreign policy and foreign trade deals. I think trump vastly underestimates how experience in dealing with world leaders is more than just making a deal to host the miss universe pageant.
Obama had zero experience in 2008 and nobody cared. They didn't care when he ran against Hillary and they didn't care when he ran against McCain. Trump's real world experience easily outweighs both Clinton and Obama unless you think only people who have made their life inside government could possibly understand how to be President. That's just silly.
That's not true at all. If I remember correctly, he was a senator.
Being a senator for two years might look good on a resumé but it hardly makes you experienced. I believed the same about Rubio, Cruz and Rand Paul. There is a reason why that prior to the election of Obama the US has primarily elected governors. Governors make decisions while senators yap then vote while almost never having to deal with the consequences.
But it's still more experience than what Trump has.
It depends on how you weigh people's accomplishments. In my eyes Kaine and Pence both have more experience then Clinton when it comes to government service. Trump's management of a global enterprise is different but far more approaches that of governor then anything Clinton has done.
8 years as a very active first lady, Senate term and Sec't of State. How can you say Trump's beauty pageants and golf courses supersedes the role of the chief diplomat?
That last statement is an excellent point that is lost by most trump supporters.
The presidency is NOT an entry level position. But most trump supporters think that in order to go outside of the establishment, you need someone that has never been in politics. Not a good idea when most of his campaign revolves around foreign policy and foreign trade deals. I think trump vastly underestimates how experience in dealing with world leaders is more than just making a deal to host the miss universe pageant.
Obama had zero experience in 2008 and nobody cared. They didn't care when he ran against Hillary and they didn't care when he ran against McCain. Trump's real world experience easily outweighs both Clinton and Obama unless you think only people who have made their life inside government could possibly understand how to be President. That's just silly.
That's not true at all. If I remember correctly, he was a senator.
Being a senator for two years might look good on a resumé but it hardly makes you experienced. I believed the same about Rubio, Cruz and Rand Paul. There is a reason why that prior to the election of Obama the US has primarily elected governors. Governors make decisions while senators yap then vote while almost never having to deal with the consequences.
But it's still more experience than what Trump has.
It depends on how you weigh people's accomplishments. In my eyes Kaine and Pence both have more experience then Clinton when it comes to government service. Trump's management of a global enterprise is different but far more approaches that of governor then anything Clinton has done.
8 years as a very active first lady, Senate term and Sec't of State. How can you say Trump's beauty pageants and golf courses supersedes the role of the chief diplomat?
Are not the best golf courses where real business is done?
That last statement is an excellent point that is lost by most trump supporters.
The presidency is NOT an entry level position. But most trump supporters think that in order to go outside of the establishment, you need someone that has never been in politics. Not a good idea when most of his campaign revolves around foreign policy and foreign trade deals. I think trump vastly underestimates how experience in dealing with world leaders is more than just making a deal to host the miss universe pageant.
Obama had zero experience in 2008 and nobody cared. They didn't care when he ran against Hillary and they didn't care when he ran against McCain. Trump's real world experience easily outweighs both Clinton and Obama unless you think only people who have made their life inside government could possibly understand how to be President. That's just silly.
That's not true at all. If I remember correctly, he was a senator.
Being a senator for two years might look good on a resumé but it hardly makes you experienced. I believed the same about Rubio, Cruz and Rand Paul. There is a reason why that prior to the election of Obama the US has primarily elected governors. Governors make decisions while senators yap then vote while almost never having to deal with the consequences.
But it's still more experience than what Trump has.
It depends on how you weigh people's accomplishments. In my eyes Kaine and Pence both have more experience then Clinton when it comes to government service. Trump's management of a global enterprise is different but far more approaches that of governor then anything Clinton has done.
8 years as a very active first lady, Senate term and Sec't of State. How can you say Trump's beauty pageants and golf courses supersedes the role of the chief diplomat?
Are not the best golf courses where real business is done?
No
will myself to find a home, a home within myself we will find a way, we will find our place
Saw Bernie on MTP or FTN this morning...can't remember which
He should have a pretty powerful speech at the convention. He was asked about who his supporters will support and he was pretty adamant that there is no other choice but Clinton if his supporters truly believe what he does.
Saw Bernie on MTP or FTN this morning...can't remember which
He should have a pretty powerful speech at the convention. He was asked about who his supporters will support and he was pretty adamant that there is no other choice but Clinton if his supporters truly believe what he does.
So there...
So there what?
That Bernie supporters will dutifully follow his word and vote Hillary "because he says so"?
Comments
we will find a way, we will find our place
Any politician that flip-flops sides deserves more scrutinization.
we will find a way, we will find our place
Well God forbid if the left wing pulls the same shit.
But, tonifig, what about the voting HRC as a way to insure we don't get stuck with Trump? I loath the idea of voting for a candidate I have no respect for, would much rather vote for Stein who is hugely more aligned with my way of thinking do we risk a Trump presidency. I'm going grey and pulling hairs all at the same time. Well, OK, hyperbole but seriously, this election is maddening. Thoughts?
What Barack did have was as strong grasp of the issues and the ability to articulate a policy in a way that people got behind. The question is whether Trump can become actually learn the issues and articulate them in the debates, or if HRC can become less wonkish.
Who knows, maybe Trump will just refuse to debate. He has refused to release taxes and that is about as shocking. There's no constitutional mandate to debate.
He should have a pretty powerful speech at the convention. He was asked about who his supporters will support and he was pretty adamant that there is no other choice but Clinton if his supporters truly believe what he does.
So there...
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
Vote with your conscience
Good riddance to DWS.
Someone get me Michael Jacksons popcorn. I'm loving the hell out of this.
we will find a way, we will find our place
We all might get our wish so Bernie can own Trumps orange ass in the debates!
we will find a way, we will find our place
That Bernie supporters will dutifully follow his word and vote Hillary "because he says so"?