The article I posted was written by the founding editor of a reliably progressive magazine, when being a progressive wasn't cool.
If you dig around in the website, you will find another article calling for Sanders's supporters to vote for Hillary, which I did not link because I am trying not to inflame the thread.
Yes, I've read all these wonderful things Hillary "will do for us" but I'm sorry to say this because it's very sad that it's true, but a political figure such as HRC will say what ever it takes to win because it's all about winning and power for someone like her, not about doing what is best for us or the planet (please let us not forget about the rest of life while talking about these issues!).
If anyone here believes HRC is in for your best interest, that's your right to believe that and perhaps nothing I say will make a difference that way.
If any of you here have the same misgivings about HRC as some of us here do and you are supporting her simply because you abhor the idea of Trump becoming president, I would suggest at least considering the notion of giving severe reservations along with that support.
Think outside the box. This is more than just about a foot race.
Then why the fuck did you ask the question? Just so you AGAIN could tell us we're wrong and pull out your patronizing, condescending crap about how you really are just trying to save us all from ourselves?
I can't believe I even fell for the idea that you are genuinely interested in reasons people are voting for her. I can't believe I didn't predict you would again resort to the "lying, power-hungry Hillary" meme. I'm so disappointed. And I'm done in this thread if nobody wants to talk policy. I'm going to hang out in the "Do Aliens Exist" thread for awhile.
Whoa! First of all, the only question I asked here today was "So why, you might ask, would I vote for someone (I won't mention her Green name because that's probably not allowed here on the HILLARY THREAD) who has no chance of winning? " which doesn't have anything do do with your little rant here.
And secondly, why the vitriol? What the hell did I say to set you off like a grenade in a flower shop? Man, really, I'm not here to cut anyone's balls or ovaries off.
Thirdly, no, I didn't ask for reasons why anyone here is voting for Hillary. I challenged you who are HRC fans to give me good reasons why I should vote for her. All I got so far was some cut-and-paste article listing some generic but hollow sounding campaign promises. It's easy to post where she has said, "I will do this or that for you!" but not so easy to illustrate what she has done. Maybe that's what frustrates you. If so, take it out on a punching bag. I'm not the enemy.
Go back to the part where you said, "Convince me of a good reason to vote for HRC."
I apologize for believing you were sincere. I see now that you are not.
You certainly have the right to believe that but all I can say is, words are 7% of communication. If you saw my body language, facial expression and tone of voice (the other 93%), you would not be angry with me.
I'm out of here for now. Don't stay mad. It's bad for ya.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
The article I posted was written by the founding editor of a reliably progressive magazine, when being a progressive wasn't cool.
If you dig around in the website, you will find another article calling for Sanders's supporters to vote for Hillary, which I did not link because I am trying not to inflame the thread.
Yes, I've read all these wonderful things Hillary "will do for us" but I'm sorry to say this because it's very sad that it's true, but a political figure such as HRC will say what ever it takes to win because it's all about winning and power for someone like her, not about doing what is best for us or the planet (please let us not forget about the rest of life while talking about these issues!).
If anyone here believes HRC is in for your best interest, that's your right to believe that and perhaps nothing I say will make a difference that way.
If any of you here have the same misgivings about HRC as some of us here do and you are supporting her simply because you abhor the idea of Trump becoming president, I would suggest at least considering the notion of giving severe reservations along with that support.
Think outside the box. This is more than just about a foot race.
Then why the fuck did you ask the question? Just so you AGAIN could tell us we're wrong and pull out your patronizing, condescending crap about how you really are just trying to save us all from ourselves?
I can't believe I even fell for the idea that you are genuinely interested in reasons people are voting for her. I can't believe I didn't predict you would again resort to the "lying, power-hungry Hillary" meme. I'm so disappointed. And I'm done in this thread if nobody wants to talk policy. I'm going to hang out in the "Do Aliens Exist" thread for awhile.
Whoa! First of all, the only question I asked here today was "So why, you might ask, would I vote for someone (I won't mention her Green name because that's probably not allowed here on the HILLARY THREAD) who has no chance of winning? " which doesn't have anything do do with your little rant here.
And secondly, why the vitriol? What the hell did I say to set you off like a grenade in a flower shop? Man, really, I'm not here to cut anyone's balls or ovaries off.
Thirdly, no, I didn't ask for reasons why anyone here is voting for Hillary. I challenged you who are HRC fans to give me good reasons why I should vote for her. All I got so far was some cut-and-paste article listing some generic but hollow sounding campaign promises. It's easy to post where she has said, "I will do this or that for you!" but not so easy to illustrate what she has done. Maybe that's what frustrates you. If so, take it out on a punching bag. I'm not the enemy.
Go back to the part where you said, "Convince me of a good reason to vote for HRC."
I apologize for believing you were sincere. I see now that you are not.
You certainly have the right to believe that but all I can say is, words are 7% of communication. If you saw my body language, facial expression and tone of voice (the other 93%), you would not be angry with me.
I'm out of here for now. Don't stay mad. It's bad for ya.
I'm not mad. I just realized I should find out what Jill Stein looks like -- haha. Without that, i wouldn't have learned she was appointed chairperson of the recycling committee in her small MA town. That's her grand accomplishment in elected office. Let me run out and vote for her. Hahaha
Now you tell me which set of speakers will be more inspiring.
not the two you just mentioned
Ha. You would rather a lecture from Chelsea. Amazing.
she is giving a campaign speech for her mom. the same things that trumps kids are doing. it is far from a lecture.
And up until last year Chelsea and the Trump kids were all receiving paychecks from NBC. Imagine that.
you say that like it is a bad thing. chelsea at least tried to make it honest. she did not latch on to daddy's reality tv show and sponge off of it. chelsea has also done a lot of charity work.
if you want to compare her to trump's kids, i think the trump kids would be put to shame.
don jr's claim to fame is shooting wild animals on safari.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
Now you tell me which set of speakers will be more inspiring.
not the two you just mentioned
Ha. You would rather a lecture from Chelsea. Amazing.
she is giving a campaign speech for her mom. the same things that trumps kids are doing. it is far from a lecture.
And up until last year Chelsea and the Trump kids were all receiving paychecks from NBC. Imagine that.
you say that like it is a bad thing. chelsea at least tried to make it honest. she did not latch on to daddy's reality tv show and sponge off of it. chelsea has also done a lot of charity work.
if you want to compare her to trump's kids, i think the trump kids would be put to shame.
don jr's claim to fame is shooting wild animals on safari.
Oh now that is just crazy talk. Chelsea got her NBC job because of her parents and was paid $600,000.00 to pretty much do nothing. Her charity work is on behalf of the Clinton Foundation. I'm not going to get into an argument over which child has achieved more but this idea that Chelsea did it "honestly" completely insane. You might also want to read up on her husband's hedge fund.
The article I posted was written by the founding editor of a reliably progressive magazine, when being a progressive wasn't cool.
If you dig around in the website, you will find another article calling for Sanders's supporters to vote for Hillary, which I did not link because I am trying not to inflame the thread.
Yes, I've read all these wonderful things Hillary "will do for us" but I'm sorry to say this because it's very sad that it's true, but a political figure such as HRC will say what ever it takes to win because it's all about winning and power for someone like her, not about doing what is best for us or the planet (please let us not forget about the rest of life while talking about these issues!).
If anyone here believes HRC is in for your best interest, that's your right to believe that and perhaps nothing I say will make a difference that way.
If any of you here have the same misgivings about HRC as some of us here do and you are supporting her simply because you abhor the idea of Trump becoming president, I would suggest at least considering the notion of giving severe reservations along with that support.
Think outside the box. This is more than just about a foot race.
Then why the fuck did you ask the question? Just so you AGAIN could tell us we're wrong and pull out your patronizing, condescending crap about how you really are just trying to save us all from ourselves?
I can't believe I even fell for the idea that you are genuinely interested in reasons people are voting for her. I can't believe I didn't predict you would again resort to the "lying, power-hungry Hillary" meme. I'm so disappointed. And I'm done in this thread if nobody wants to talk policy. I'm going to hang out in the "Do Aliens Exist" thread for awhile.
Whoa! First of all, the only question I asked here today was "So why, you might ask, would I vote for someone (I won't mention her Green name because that's probably not allowed here on the HILLARY THREAD) who has no chance of winning? " which doesn't have anything do do with your little rant here.
And secondly, why the vitriol? What the hell did I say to set you off like a grenade in a flower shop? Man, really, I'm not here to cut anyone's balls or ovaries off.
Thirdly, no, I didn't ask for reasons why anyone here is voting for Hillary. I challenged you who are HRC fans to give me good reasons why I should vote for her. All I got so far was some cut-and-paste article listing some generic but hollow sounding campaign promises. It's easy to post where she has said, "I will do this or that for you!" but not so easy to illustrate what she has done. Maybe that's what frustrates you. If so, take it out on a punching bag. I'm not the enemy.
The only good reason to vote for her is to help insure that donald drumpf does not get elected. I've said before that I totally respect and understand wanting to vote your conscience. But voting for anyone other than Hillary Clinton is a vote for drumpf. Personally I think every single viable candidate during this election cycle sucks. But just the thought of a president drumpf scares the hell out of me. More then the 8 years we already had with president cheney.
Namaste'
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,998
The article I posted was written by the founding editor of a reliably progressive magazine, when being a progressive wasn't cool.
If you dig around in the website, you will find another article calling for Sanders's supporters to vote for Hillary, which I did not link because I am trying not to inflame the thread.
Yes, I've read all these wonderful things Hillary "will do for us" but I'm sorry to say this because it's very sad that it's true, but a political figure such as HRC will say what ever it takes to win because it's all about winning and power for someone like her, not about doing what is best for us or the planet (please let us not forget about the rest of life while talking about these issues!).
If anyone here believes HRC is in for your best interest, that's your right to believe that and perhaps nothing I say will make a difference that way.
If any of you here have the same misgivings about HRC as some of us here do and you are supporting her simply because you abhor the idea of Trump becoming president, I would suggest at least considering the notion of giving severe reservations along with that support.
Think outside the box. This is more than just about a foot race.
Then why the fuck did you ask the question? Just so you AGAIN could tell us we're wrong and pull out your patronizing, condescending crap about how you really are just trying to save us all from ourselves?
I can't believe I even fell for the idea that you are genuinely interested in reasons people are voting for her. I can't believe I didn't predict you would again resort to the "lying, power-hungry Hillary" meme. I'm so disappointed. And I'm done in this thread if nobody wants to talk policy. I'm going to hang out in the "Do Aliens Exist" thread for awhile.
Whoa! First of all, the only question I asked here today was "So why, you might ask, would I vote for someone (I won't mention her Green name because that's probably not allowed here on the HILLARY THREAD) who has no chance of winning? " which doesn't have anything do do with your little rant here.
And secondly, why the vitriol? What the hell did I say to set you off like a grenade in a flower shop? Man, really, I'm not here to cut anyone's balls or ovaries off.
Thirdly, no, I didn't ask for reasons why anyone here is voting for Hillary. I challenged you who are HRC fans to give me good reasons why I should vote for her. All I got so far was some cut-and-paste article listing some generic but hollow sounding campaign promises. It's easy to post where she has said, "I will do this or that for you!" but not so easy to illustrate what she has done. Maybe that's what frustrates you. If so, take it out on a punching bag. I'm not the enemy.
The only good reason to vote for her is to help insure that donald drumpf does not get elected. I've said before that I totally respect and understand wanting to vote your conscience. But voting for anyone other than Hillary Clinton is a vote for drumpf. Personally I think every single viable candidate during this election cycle sucks. But just the thought of a president drumpf scares the hell out of me. More then the 8 years we already had with president cheney.
Namaste'
I totally get what you're saying and when it comes time to vote if it looks like Trump has any chance in hell (seriously not likely), I might have to consider voting for, um, her, but otherwise, no way can I do that. But let's see how this unfolds. If it looks like a major landslide, I'll vote against an HRC landslide and for the person I most align my thinking with.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Now you tell me which set of speakers will be more inspiring.
not the two you just mentioned
Ha. You would rather a lecture from Chelsea. Amazing.
she is giving a campaign speech for her mom. the same things that trumps kids are doing. it is far from a lecture.
And up until last year Chelsea and the Trump kids were all receiving paychecks from NBC. Imagine that.
you say that like it is a bad thing. chelsea at least tried to make it honest. she did not latch on to daddy's reality tv show and sponge off of it. chelsea has also done a lot of charity work.
if you want to compare her to trump's kids, i think the trump kids would be put to shame.
don jr's claim to fame is shooting wild animals on safari.
Oh now that is just crazy talk. Chelsea got her NBC job because of her parents and was paid $600,000.00 to pretty much do nothing. Her charity work is on behalf of the Clinton Foundation. I'm not going to get into an argument over which child has achieved more but this idea that Chelsea did it "honestly" completely insane. You might also want to read up on her husband's hedge fund.
That kind of story always goes over well with the base of the democratic party. Maybe Chelsea can discuss it at the convention.
OMG, is this really an argument? All the kids are privileged. Powerful people help their kids, newsflash. Doesn't make these kids honest or dishonest. But BentleyPop is right that she is going to be doing the HRC intro, which is a very defined role. I assume one of Trump's kids will do the same. The fact remains that the Trump speakers are quite lame.
and all the fresh granola, cottage cheese, and hummus one RadLib can handle.... that and Jen Stein will save the world.
Analog love songs will save the world.
Jill Stein will help us move forward to a better world.
How? I have to admit, this sudden jump from strong support for Bernie to automatic strong support for Jill Stein seems a bit insincere, generally. She seems to just be a Bernie default because she's the only other option on the lefter left. I have yet to see any reason to think she would actually be a great leader who could "move us forward to a better world" (as I think Bernie might have been able to do).
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,998
and all the fresh granola, cottage cheese, and hummus one RadLib can handle.... that and Jen Stein will save the world.
Analog love songs will save the world.
Jill Stein will help us move forward to a better world.
How? I have to admit, this sudden jump from strong support for Bernie to automatic strong support for Jill Stein seems a bit insincere, generally. She seems to just be a Bernie default because she's the only other option on the lefter left. I have yet to see any reason to think she would actually be a great leader who could "move us forward to a better world" (as I think Bernie might have been able to do).
She will help us move forward by increasing the awareness and support for a more progressive agenda. She describes herself as a "hard-core liberal". What I wrote at the top of the "Setting the Bar" thread illustrates why I believe a radical approach can be very useful
As for jumping support (I'll only speak for myself), it makes perfectly good sense to me and is anything but insincere. I've been a Jill Stein fan all along and though I've always been more aligned with Stein's viewpoints, I supported Bernie because I believed he still had a shot at making the presidency and because he is progressive enough to have made some changes I would like to see. With him out of the picture, I've placed my focus on Stein because the more support she gets, the more likely someone like Bernie has a shot at it next time. This goes right back to what I said at the top of the "Setting the Bar" thread. It all fits together quite well in my mind.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Now you tell me which set of speakers will be more inspiring.
not the two you just mentioned
Ha. You would rather a lecture from Chelsea. Amazing.
she is giving a campaign speech for her mom. the same things that trumps kids are doing. it is far from a lecture.
And up until last year Chelsea and the Trump kids were all receiving paychecks from NBC. Imagine that.
you say that like it is a bad thing. chelsea at least tried to make it honest. she did not latch on to daddy's reality tv show and sponge off of it. chelsea has also done a lot of charity work.
if you want to compare her to trump's kids, i think the trump kids would be put to shame.
don jr's claim to fame is shooting wild animals on safari.
Oh now that is just crazy talk. Chelsea got her NBC job because of her parents and was paid $600,000.00 to pretty much do nothing. Her charity work is on behalf of the Clinton Foundation. I'm not going to get into an argument over which child has achieved more but this idea that Chelsea did it "honestly" completely insane. You might also want to read up on her husband's hedge fund.
That kind of story always goes over well with the base of the democratic party. Maybe Chelsea can discuss it at the convention.
OMG, is this really an argument? All the kids are privileged. Powerful people help their kids, newsflash. Doesn't make these kids honest or dishonest. But BentleyPop is right that she is going to be doing the HRC intro, which is a very defined role. I assume one of Trump's kids will do the same. The fact remains that the Trump speakers are quite lame.
I'm with you. I'm not making the argument...I am responding to the argument.
Nate Silver out-forecast almost everyone last time. I'm keeping an eye on him and his analysis again this time. Secretary Clinton took a hit but I think she'll rebound because she has the policies.
Nate Silver out-forecast almost everyone last time. I'm keeping an eye on him and his analysis again this time. Secretary Clinton took a hit but I think she'll rebound because she has the policies.
"It would be a bad sign for Trump if he can’t at least tie Clinton in polls conducted in between the RNC and the DNC. Since recent convention bounces have averaged 3 or 4 percentage points, and Trump trails Clinton by 3 or 4 points now, that would suggest he’d had a below-average convention bounce. And it would certainly be a bad sign for Clinton if she doesn’t lead after her convention, since she both holds the lead going into the conventions and gets to hold her convention last."
Now you tell me which set of speakers will be more inspiring.
not the two you just mentioned
Ha. You would rather a lecture from Chelsea. Amazing.
she is giving a campaign speech for her mom. the same things that trumps kids are doing. it is far from a lecture.
And up until last year Chelsea and the Trump kids were all receiving paychecks from NBC. Imagine that.
you say that like it is a bad thing. chelsea at least tried to make it honest. she did not latch on to daddy's reality tv show and sponge off of it. chelsea has also done a lot of charity work.
if you want to compare her to trump's kids, i think the trump kids would be put to shame.
don jr's claim to fame is shooting wild animals on safari.
If Trump manages to pull this out it will be because of his kids. They have totally owned this convention.
His sons are fucking narcissistic assholes, plain and simple. I feel a bit better about Ivanka or whatever her name is. At least she doesn't go around murdering elephants and being happy about how loyal her groundskeeper is for agreeing to skip his sister's wedding in order to come to work.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
His sons are fucking narcissistic assholes, plain and simple. I feel a bit better about Ivanka or whatever her name is. At least she doesn't go around murdering elephants and being happy about how loyal her groundskeeper is for agreeing to skip his sister's wedding in order to come to work.
Nate Silver out-forecast almost everyone last time. I'm keeping an eye on him and his analysis again this time. Secretary Clinton took a hit but I think she'll rebound because she has the policies.
Nate Silver out-forecast almost everyone last time. I'm keeping an eye on him and his analysis again this time. Secretary Clinton took a hit but I think she'll rebound because she has the policies.
Nate Silver out-forecast almost everyone last time. I'm keeping an eye on him and his analysis again this time. Secretary Clinton took a hit but I think she'll rebound because she has the policies.
"It would be a bad sign for Trump if he can’t at least tie Clinton in polls conducted in between the RNC and the DNC. Since recent convention bounces have averaged 3 or 4 percentage points, and Trump trails Clinton by 3 or 4 points now, that would suggest he’d had a below-average convention bounce. And it would certainly be a bad sign for Clinton if she doesn’t lead after her convention, since she both holds the lead going into the conventions and gets to hold her convention last."
Survey Monkey surveys aren't valid because they're voluntary and not done from a random sample. It's not the most responsible journalism to even reference it.
Comments
I'm out of here for now. Don't stay mad. It's bad for ya.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2016/07/15/the-first-female-space-shuttle-commander-will-speak-at-the-gop-convention-huh/
http://heatst.com/politics/gay-billionaire-peter-thiel-convention/
Now you tell me which set of speakers will be more inspiring.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
if you want to compare her to trump's kids, i think the trump kids would be put to shame.
don jr's claim to fame is shooting wild animals on safari.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/05/11/business/dealbook/clinton-son-in-laws-firm-is-said-to-close-greece-hedge-fund.html
That kind of story always goes over well with the base of the democratic party. Maybe Chelsea can discuss it at the convention.
I've said before that I totally respect and understand wanting to vote your conscience. But voting for anyone other than Hillary Clinton is a vote for drumpf.
Personally I think every single viable candidate during this election cycle sucks. But just the thought of a president drumpf scares the hell out of me. More then the 8 years we already had with president cheney.
Namaste'
Jill Stein will help us move forward to a better world.
I have to admit, this sudden jump from strong support for Bernie to automatic strong support for Jill Stein seems a bit insincere, generally. She seems to just be a Bernie default because she's the only other option on the lefter left. I have yet to see any reason to think she would actually be a great leader who could "move us forward to a better world" (as I think Bernie might have been able to do).
As for jumping support (I'll only speak for myself), it makes perfectly good sense to me and is anything but insincere. I've been a Jill Stein fan all along and though I've always been more aligned with Stein's viewpoints, I supported Bernie because I believed he still had a shot at making the presidency and because he is progressive enough to have made some changes I would like to see. With him out of the picture, I've placed my focus on Stein because the more support she gets, the more likely someone like Bernie has a shot at it next time. This goes right back to what I said at the top of the "Setting the Bar" thread. It all fits together quite well in my mind.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/election-update-clintons-lead-is-as-safe-as-kerrys-was-in-2004/
Kerry won in 2004 right?
"It would be a bad sign for Trump if he can’t at least tie Clinton in polls conducted in between the RNC and the DNC. Since recent convention bounces have averaged 3 or 4 percentage points, and Trump trails Clinton by 3 or 4 points now, that would suggest he’d had a below-average convention bounce. And it would certainly be a bad sign for Clinton if she doesn’t lead after her convention, since she both holds the lead going into the conventions and gets to hold her convention last."
NBC shows them tied today:
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/poll-clinton-trump-now-tied-gop-convention-kicks-n611936