Am onto D-Day, also by Stephen Ambrose. A fairly weighty tome but have been ploughing through it over Christmas and it's really fantastic. Although D-Day is widely considered a great success, I'm now realising it could have gone a hell of a lot better! The air bombardment prior to the landings were of absolutely no help to the unfortunate soldiers who then came in under heavy fire, particularly at Omaha. I don't quite understand how they failed to bomb anywhere near the beaches, despite what has been said about cloud cover and fear of dropping short. Has anyone any insights?
Am onto D-Day, also by Stephen Ambrose. A fairly weighty tome but have been ploughing through it over Christmas and it's really fantastic. Although D-Day is widely considered a great success, I'm now realising it could have gone a hell of a lot better! The air bombardment prior to the landings were of absolutely no help to the unfortunate soldiers who then came in under heavy fire, particularly at Omaha. I don't quite understand how they failed to bomb anywhere near the beaches, despite what has been said about cloud cover and fear of dropping short. Has anyone any insights?
The timing was off too. They were supposed to be landing just before day break.
Am onto D-Day, also by Stephen Ambrose. A fairly weighty tome but have been ploughing through it over Christmas and it's really fantastic. Although D-Day is widely considered a great success, I'm now realising it could have gone a hell of a lot better! The air bombardment prior to the landings were of absolutely no help to the unfortunate soldiers who then came in under heavy fire, particularly at Omaha. I don't quite understand how they failed to bomb anywhere near the beaches, despite what has been said about cloud cover and fear of dropping short. Has anyone any insights?
The timing was off too. They were supposed to be landing just before day break.
Now this is another thing, presumably they decided to land during daylight so as to allow for the pre-landing air bombardment but given how little help this was, surely a lot of lives could have been saved by landing in darkness? Though I suppose at the same time, that would have made the naval bombardment more difficult...
Fog of war I guess. The airborne drops were awfully scattered as well. It's kind of amazing that it succeeded. Many historians will attribute it to the lack of German communication (Rommel was celebrating his birthday or something back in the Fatherland). There is a theory of German military command which is that they were incapable of doing anything without the explicit command of leadership. So with Rommel gone, communication cut, the field officers were paralyzed. Who knows how true this is, but it's one theory on why they were so slow to respond to the assault.
Fog of war I guess. The airborne drops were awfully scattered as well. It's kind of amazing that it succeeded. Many historians will attribute it to the lack of German communication (Rommel was celebrating his birthday or something back in the Fatherland). There is a theory of German military command which is that they were incapable of doing anything without the explicit command of leadership. So with Rommel gone, communication cut, the field officers were paralyzed. Who knows how true this is, but it's one theory on why they were so slow to respond to the assault.
Yeah Rommel was off celebrating his wife's birthday and most of the other generals were messing around with war games in Rennes. So in many cases it was the inability of the lower ranking officers to act without the approval of their superiors. Also it seems none of the Panzer divisions could go anywhere without Hitler's approval and apparently he was asleep and everyone was scared to wake him up! Really you start to wonder how the Germans got so far in the first place with that kind of leadership...
I think I've written about this before - Rick Atkinson wrote 3 books about the Allies in WWII and they're great books, kind of ridiculously dense and you need a dictionary beside you, but they're really really good. The first one, An Army at Dawn, is about the U.S. entering the war and you sort of assume - yay ,they're gonna be amazing and save the day, and they're not. It's disorganized and Eisenhower isn't especially impressive yet... fascinating.
I think I've written about this before - Rick Atkinson wrote 3 books about the Allies in WWII and they're great books, kind of ridiculously dense and you need a dictionary beside you, but they're really really good. The first one, An Army at Dawn, is about the U.S. entering the war and you sort of assume - yay ,they're gonna be amazing and save the day, and they're not. It's disorganized and Eisenhower isn't especially impressive yet... fascinating.
Has anyone visited any WWII sites? I'm thinking of trying to visit a few next year, mainly in France. Would appreciate advice from anyone who has been, would be a big help as I look into logistics...
Would love to see the woods in Bastogne (Battle of the Bulge). The foxholes are still there. Eerie.
Normandy is also on my list
The National WW2 Museum in New Orleans is unbelievable. Tom Hanks and Spielberg helped put it together.
Has anyone visited any WWII sites? I'm thinking of trying to visit a few next year, mainly in France. Would appreciate advice from anyone who has been, would be a big help as I look into logistics...
Would love to see the woods in Bastogne (Battle of the Bulge). The foxholes are still there. Eerie.
Normandy is also on my list
The National WW2 Museum in New Orleans is unbelievable. Tom Hanks and Spielberg helped put it together.
Stephen Ambrose played a big role in that museum as well. I'd like to see Bastogne as well but some places are easier to get to than others! I'd say I'll need to plan several trips to France to see various places
Watching a documentary on PBS America called Memory of the Camps. To say it's harrowing doesn't even begin to describe it. There's footage of the SS men and women burying the bodies, a job they were ordered to do by the Allied liberators. In theory I can see the reasoning behind this, the hope that they might come to realise and regret what terrible crimes they had perpetrated. However, all I see is Nazis being given a further chance to persecute their victims, as they show nothing but disgust and disrespect, manhandling the corpses as if they were bits of waste being thrown on a scrap heap.
Surely at the very least these wretched victims could have been given a proper and respectful burial? I understand the difficulty of dealing with so very many bodies but it was just so inhumane and seems like committing one final crime against them.
I know this is a subject not many will wish to discuss but I just needed to share my thoughts somewhere...
I still remember learning about this in school and reading the accounts of those who were trapped inside compartments on the ships that were hit. It was the 50 year anniversary. I think it was one of those scholastic readers we did in my 6th grade class.
december 7, 1941 national pearl harbor remembrance day 75th year
It is really sad how so many have no idea what today is.
How have you made that determination?
Talking to people under 20. I'm a teacher, if I have a quiz on this day I will make it an extra credit question. It is a good class when 5 out of 30 know Pearl Harbor happened today.
Youd be shocked at their knowledge (or lack of) of 20th century history. Ten you'd know those clips of Late Show Jay-Walking are actually real.
this day is a big deal to me. later on after supper & whatnot, i'll be sitting my fat ass on down to watch some pearl harbor footage. in all actuality i do this often, it's just that today is the day & WWII guys amaze me to no end. if i were worth a damn i'd go to the VFW in hopes of buying some old-timer a cold beer... that is a lot to ask of a 90+ year old gentleman to find his way to a VFW for a mug of beer. those guys are the best
this day is a big deal to me. later on after supper & whatnot, i'll be sitting my fat ass on down to watch some pearl harbor footage. in all actuality i do this often, it's just that today is the day & WWII guys amaze me to no end. if i were worth a damn i'd go to the VFW in hopes of buying some old-timer a cold beer... that is a lot to ask of a 90+ year old gentleman to find his way to a VFW for a mug of beer. those guys are the best
Yeah and it's sad that so many VFW's are suffering. The WWII generation really bolstered those organizations and many are floundering because there just aren't enough veterans to support them. In a sense I guess it's good that we haven't had major wars that resulted in tons of veterans but sad to see regardless.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
december 7, 1941 national pearl harbor remembrance day 75th year
It is really sad how so many have no idea what today is.
How have you made that determination?
Talking to people under 20. I'm a teacher, if I have a quiz on this day I will make it an extra credit question. It is a good class when 5 out of 30 know Pearl Harbor happened today.
Youd be shocked at their knowledge (or lack of) of 20th century history. Ten you'd know those clips of Late Show Jay-Walking are actually real.
I feel like it's because it was Hawaii and it was/is so geographically separated from the rest of the country. People can't visit the site easily and it wasn't near large cities. Will the same thing happen when the 75th anniversary of 9/11 occurs or because it's NY, will it be more prevalent in the annals of history?
I'd say maybe 30 out of 115 students knew the significance of today. I gave a quick 15 minute power point about pearl harbor......watched cnn special about it and then killed franz ferdinand lol.
december 7, 1941 national pearl harbor remembrance day 75th year
It is really sad how so many have no idea what today is.
How have you made that determination?
Talking to people under 20. I'm a teacher, if I have a quiz on this day I will make it an extra credit question. It is a good class when 5 out of 30 know Pearl Harbor happened today.
Youd be shocked at their knowledge (or lack of) of 20th century history. Ten you'd know those clips of Late Show Jay-Walking are actually real.
I feel like it's because it was Hawaii and it was/is so geographically separated from the rest of the country. People can't visit the site easily and it wasn't near large cities. Will the same thing happen when the 75th anniversary of 9/11 occurs or because it's NY, will it be more prevalent in the annals of history?
I have a different impression. To me there seem to be a lack of interest for anything that happened before their time. A lot of their 20th century knowledge seems lacking.. I've only ever been in low-income schools, but based off questions and conversations I would say at least half the students don't even know what century the civil war occurred, Bill Clinton was president (hopefully after this election they would do better), what century we became a nation. I'm talking about half of the kids couldn't even give a correct answer within 100 years. Its really sad. But these were schools in high poverty places like south-central LA where there is a lot more for them to worry about.
december 7, 1941 national pearl harbor remembrance day 75th year
It is really sad how so many have no idea what today is.
What is worse is that so many think we didn't provoke it.
We appropriately provoked by freezing assets and cutting them off form the oil supply. The nation was in an isolationist phase and FDR pulled us out. Good for him. There is right and wrong in this world. Good and evil and this was was a battle between the two. The Last Good War may be tongue in cheek to some, but completely accurate.
december 7, 1941 national pearl harbor remembrance day 75th year
It is really sad how so many have no idea what today is.
How have you made that determination?
Talking to people under 20. I'm a teacher, if I have a quiz on this day I will make it an extra credit question. It is a good class when 5 out of 30 know Pearl Harbor happened today.
Youd be shocked at their knowledge (or lack of) of 20th century history. Ten you'd know those clips of Late Show Jay-Walking are actually real.
I feel like it's because it was Hawaii and it was/is so geographically separated from the rest of the country. People can't visit the site easily and it wasn't near large cities. Will the same thing happen when the 75th anniversary of 9/11 occurs or because it's NY, will it be more prevalent in the annals of history?
I have a different impression. To me there seem to be a lack of interest for anything that happened before their time. A lot of their 20th century knowledge seems lacking.. I've only ever been in low-income schools, but based off questions and conversations I would say at least half the students don't even know what century the civil war occurred, Bill Clinton was president (hopefully after this election they would do better), what century we became a nation. I'm talking about half of the kids couldn't even give a correct answer within 100 years. Its really sad. But these were schools in high poverty places like south-central LA where there is a lot more for them to worry about.
I think it's fairly natural for kids to be disinterested in history when they are young. I was always interested but was an outlier. As you get older, interest grows. Wars before WWII are less accessible for kids because footage only exists in a limited way for the Great War and really nothing before. That does make it more difficult in today's world.
december 7, 1941 national pearl harbor remembrance day 75th year
It is really sad how so many have no idea what today is.
How have you made that determination?
Talking to people under 20. I'm a teacher, if I have a quiz on this day I will make it an extra credit question. It is a good class when 5 out of 30 know Pearl Harbor happened today.
Youd be shocked at their knowledge (or lack of) of 20th century history. Ten you'd know those clips of Late Show Jay-Walking are actually real.
I feel like it's because it was Hawaii and it was/is so geographically separated from the rest of the country. People can't visit the site easily and it wasn't near large cities. Will the same thing happen when the 75th anniversary of 9/11 occurs or because it's NY, will it be more prevalent in the annals of history?
I have a different impression. To me there seem to be a lack of interest for anything that happened before their time. A lot of their 20th century knowledge seems lacking.. I've only ever been in low-income schools, but based off questions and conversations I would say at least half the students don't even know what century the civil war occurred, Bill Clinton was president (hopefully after this election they would do better), what century we became a nation. I'm talking about half of the kids couldn't even give a correct answer within 100 years. Its really sad. But these were schools in high poverty places like south-central LA where there is a lot more for them to worry about.
I think it's fairly natural for kids to be disinterested in history when they are young. I was always interested but was an outlier. As you get older, interest grows. Wars before WWII are less accessible for kids because footage only exists in a limited way for the Great War and really nothing before. That does make it more difficult in today's world.
I didn't even watch the news til I was 17, it took the Iraq war to get me engaged. As far as WWII goes, I am sorry to admit that I knew sod all about it until a couple of years ago when I happened to watch Band of Brothers and the Pacific. As Ireland wasn't involved, it's not something that's really talked about here. I have since developed enormous interest in it though and do my best to make up for my years of ignorance
december 7, 1941 national pearl harbor remembrance day 75th year
It is really sad how so many have no idea what today is.
How have you made that determination?
Talking to people under 20. I'm a teacher, if I have a quiz on this day I will make it an extra credit question. It is a good class when 5 out of 30 know Pearl Harbor happened today.
Youd be shocked at their knowledge (or lack of) of 20th century history. Ten you'd know those clips of Late Show Jay-Walking are actually real.
I feel like it's because it was Hawaii and it was/is so geographically separated from the rest of the country. People can't visit the site easily and it wasn't near large cities. Will the same thing happen when the 75th anniversary of 9/11 occurs or because it's NY, will it be more prevalent in the annals of history?
I have a different impression. To me there seem to be a lack of interest for anything that happened before their time. A lot of their 20th century knowledge seems lacking.. I've only ever been in low-income schools, but based off questions and conversations I would say at least half the students don't even know what century the civil war occurred, Bill Clinton was president (hopefully after this election they would do better), what century we became a nation. I'm talking about half of the kids couldn't even give a correct answer within 100 years. Its really sad. But these were schools in high poverty places like south-central LA where there is a lot more for them to worry about.
I think it's fairly natural for kids to be disinterested in history when they are young. I was always interested but was an outlier. As you get older, interest grows. Wars before WWII are less accessible for kids because footage only exists in a limited way for the Great War and really nothing before. That does make it more difficult in today's world.
I didn't even watch the news til I was 17, it took the Iraq war to get me engaged. As far as WWII goes, I am sorry to admit that I knew sod all about it until a couple of years ago when I happened to watch Band of Brothers and the Pacific. As Ireland wasn't involved, it's not something that's really talked about here. I have since developed enormous interest in it though and do my best to make up for my years of ignorance
Why did Ireland decide to stay neutral when the threat was so close?
december 7, 1941 national pearl harbor remembrance day 75th year
It is really sad how so many have no idea what today is.
How have you made that determination?
Talking to people under 20. I'm a teacher, if I have a quiz on this day I will make it an extra credit question. It is a good class when 5 out of 30 know Pearl Harbor happened today.
Youd be shocked at their knowledge (or lack of) of 20th century history. Ten you'd know those clips of Late Show Jay-Walking are actually real.
I feel like it's because it was Hawaii and it was/is so geographically separated from the rest of the country. People can't visit the site easily and it wasn't near large cities. Will the same thing happen when the 75th anniversary of 9/11 occurs or because it's NY, will it be more prevalent in the annals of history?
I have a different impression. To me there seem to be a lack of interest for anything that happened before their time. A lot of their 20th century knowledge seems lacking.. I've only ever been in low-income schools, but based off questions and conversations I would say at least half the students don't even know what century the civil war occurred, Bill Clinton was president (hopefully after this election they would do better), what century we became a nation. I'm talking about half of the kids couldn't even give a correct answer within 100 years. Its really sad. But these were schools in high poverty places like south-central LA where there is a lot more for them to worry about.
I think it's fairly natural for kids to be disinterested in history when they are young. I was always interested but was an outlier. As you get older, interest grows. Wars before WWII are less accessible for kids because footage only exists in a limited way for the Great War and really nothing before. That does make it more difficult in today's world.
I didn't even watch the news til I was 17, it took the Iraq war to get me engaged. As far as WWII goes, I am sorry to admit that I knew sod all about it until a couple of years ago when I happened to watch Band of Brothers and the Pacific. As Ireland wasn't involved, it's not something that's really talked about here. I have since developed enormous interest in it though and do my best to make up for my years of ignorance
Why did Ireland decide to stay neutral when the threat was so close?
Ha, it's complicated! We were never under threat from Germany though, even if they did accidentally drop a bomb on us one night. As a relatively new state at the time, we quite wisely decided to stay out of it. The British had killed enough of our people, we weren't about to go out and lose more fighting alongside them. That's the blunt answer but also the honest one. Like I said though, it's complicated
Comments
Weird that we all knew veterans of that. They'll be like mythical figures one day IMO
http://liberationtrilogy.com/
Normandy is also on my list
The National WW2 Museum in New Orleans is unbelievable. Tom Hanks and Spielberg helped put it together.
Surely at the very least these wretched victims could have been given a proper and respectful burial? I understand the difficulty of dealing with so very many bodies but it was just so inhumane and seems like committing one final crime against them.
I know this is a subject not many will wish to discuss but I just needed to share my thoughts somewhere...
national pearl harbor remembrance day
75th year
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
I'm a teacher, if I have a quiz on this day I will make it an extra credit question.
It is a good class when 5 out of 30 know Pearl Harbor happened today.
Youd be shocked at their knowledge (or lack of) of 20th century history. Ten you'd know those clips of Late Show Jay-Walking are actually real.
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
I've only ever been in low-income schools, but based off questions and conversations I would say at least half the students don't even know what century the civil war occurred, Bill Clinton was president (hopefully after this election they would do better), what century we became a nation. I'm talking about half of the kids couldn't even give a correct answer within 100 years. Its really sad.
But these were schools in high poverty places like south-central LA where there is a lot more for them to worry about.