Migrants rushing Europian Borders

the rail stations were closed down to stop the influx of people trying to get to Germany. I see big problems with this.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/09/01/europe-searches-vainly-for-answers-as-migrant-crisis-grows/

Godfather.
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Comments

  • I hope you see it as a human crisis and not an immigrant problem.
    These are asylum seekers; refugees...
    Over 2500 of them have died around the Mediterranean so far this year.
    This is what happens when we destabilize entire regions....
    http://www.democracynow.org/2015/8/31/preserving_borders_vs_preserving_people_death
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,138
    It was once rejoiced by the left as the Arab Spring! It was US supported dictatorships being overthrown by the people.

    Problem is, some of those people are super fucking nuts and evil, and unfortunately, fairly organized.
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,954
    edited September 2015
    I feel so upset every time I see/read/hear about this crisis. I can't even imagine how desperate some of those people are - I literally get choked up about it. It's shameful that the world as a whole still hasn't managed to figure out a way to help them. There are enough resources and enough space to help them and find homes and jobs for them, but it would take international cooperation and coordination, and the no world leaders give a fuck. A few countries and people are attempting to step up and do what they can, but it's not nearly enough and they have no support. This crisis, to me, is highlighting how selfish the world is.

    Of course I do not expect just those European countries bordering on crossings to deal with it all. I feel terrible for their situation as well. I'm sure it's a real rock and a hard place for thise who aren't just nastily angry and defensive. It's sad to think of the dilemma that puts some good people in.

    What an awful, depressing clusterfuck. There as we're now more refugees in the world right at this very second as there were during all of the Second World War. :frowning:
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • rr165892rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    First we have to help these people trying to escape the violence.Europe has to step up.We should have learned our lesson from WW 2 about taking in those being persecuted.

    Drowned,you say "we" destabilized the region.Assad and IsIs is doing a fine job of it without our help.You can't put this one on the west.
  • Funny that we look at this as a european problem, when the vast majority of refugees are hosted in middle eastern nations. You look at graphs of refugee host nations and find a lot of 'evil' nations topping the list....Pakistain, Iran, Syria, Lebanon. Germany is the only euro country near the top. But hey....too many burkas in England, godamnit!

    Jason P said:

    It was once rejoiced by the left as the Arab Spring! It was US supported dictatorships being overthrown by the people.

    Problem is, some of those people are super fucking nuts and evil, and unfortunately, fairly organized.

    No mention of foreign intervention or the results of west-waged war?
    Afghanistan and Syria are the two major refugee source countries - two countries in which the US/western powers are heavily involved. Afghanistan is not considered an arab spring nation, and we should take a huge part of the blame for their plight. Syria....well, you've seen my opinions on what is happening there. It hasn't been about crushing a protest movement there for years.




  • Seems every time I see Iceland in the news, I like that country even more...
    http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/item/iceland_could_only_take_in_50_syrian_refugees_10000_icelanders_20150901


    Canada is pathetic when it comes to granting asylum or accepting refugees. our government was denied the ability to turn away refugees based on source country by our supreme court this summer.
  • Trump said he can also build a wall around Europe once his done with the one here will generate lots of jobs ...
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • Trump said he can also build a wall around Europe once his done with the one here will generate lots of jobs ...

    saw a headline this morning that said Scott Walker wants to build a wall between the US and Canada as well :lol: now that would be impressive.
  • Trump said he can also build a wall around Europe once his done with the one here will generate lots of jobs ...

    saw a headline this morning that said Scott Walker wants to build a wall between the US and Canada as well :lol: now that would be impressive.
    lol that 's insane ...
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    what all this means.. is war, the US will be asked to help and we will because that's what we do,
    you can say we do it for oil but after the body count is finished will it really matter ? people will depend on the bleeding hearts of America to come to the rescue...they always do, just out of curiosity how many of you would be willing send your loved ones off to another war ?...that has to be fought with political correctness in mind...meaning no colleteral damage...meaning the war will never be finished because people will scream and whine about the innocent victims of war and demand a pull out. cold hearted or not it a real possibality, personally I hope the US does not get involved...at all !

    Godfather.
  • what all this means.. is war, the US will be asked to help and we will because that's what we do,
    you can say we do it for oil but after the body count is finished will it really matter ? people will depend on the bleeding hearts of America to come to the rescue...they always do, just out of curiosity how many of you would be willing send your loved ones off to another war ?...that has to be fought with political correctness in mind...meaning no colleteral damage...meaning the war will never be finished because people will scream and whine about the innocent victims of war and demand a pull out. cold hearted or not it a real possibality, personally I hope the US does not get involved...at all !

    Godfather.

    A true humanitarian.
    looking to hear of the earth
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504

    what all this means.. is war, the US will be asked to help and we will because that's what we do,
    you can say we do it for oil but after the body count is finished will it really matter ? people will depend on the bleeding hearts of America to come to the rescue...they always do, just out of curiosity how many of you would be willing send your loved ones off to another war ?...that has to be fought with political correctness in mind...meaning no colleteral damage...meaning the war will never be finished because people will scream and whine about the innocent victims of war and demand a pull out. cold hearted or not it a real possibality, personally I hope the US does not get involved...at all !

    Godfather.

    A true humanitarian.
    everybody wants to stop the bad guys but nobody wants to do what it takes to get it done.

    Godfather.

  • Oh I'm sorry I thought we are talking about a humanitarian crisis, not starting wars over this.
    looking to hear of the earth
  • Well I suppose it doesn't take much for America to start or escalate wars...

    Tempted to apologise for that but not going to :)
  • Leezestarr313Leezestarr313 Posts: 14,352
    edited September 2015
    It is horrible to read the news from Germany at the moment. The refugee influx has given a certain group of people who are very hostile towards foreigners new forums and support from all kinds of sides. It is especially bad in one state, Saxonia. People are gathering and riot in front of the refugee camps, show their stupidity, intolerance and ignorance on all channels of the social media. It reminds a lot of stuff that happened in the past, and it is horrifying to think about what happens next. I try to catch up with events, but am not always up on everything. From what I am reading, there are certain locations where camps have been set up without getting the vote of the people who live there. The East has a certain history with being hostile to foreigners, oddly enough being an area of Germany where not a lot of them were present for a long time. But it is also happening in the Western part of the country. Not everybody of those rioters would be called a Neonazi, but the tendencies in their thinking and in their words are there. The "concerned citizens", as they have been labelled, try to bring their points of intolerance across by claiming rassist statements that cannot or are not true or to be feared in the least, stating that they are "just concerned". Then the angry mob leads the way and terrible things are happening. It is good to see that this is not something that is everywhere. It is good to see people stepping up, celebrities, politicians, regular people, by having "welcome refugees" fests, donating actions and generally speaking up against this abhorrent display of hate.
    Post edited by Leezestarr313 on
  • Here's some articles in English from one of the bigger German newspapers, if anybody is interested in reading more about it. http://www.spiegel.de/international/topic/right_wing_extremism/
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    rr165892 said:

    First we have to help these people trying to escape the violence.Europe has to step up.We should have learned our lesson from WW 2 about taking in those being persecuted.

    Drowned,you say "we" destabilized the region.Assad and IsIs is doing a fine job of it without our help.You can't put this one on the west.

    That is utterly ridiculous. Decades of war waged by us with the purpose of destabilization, and you are only willing to take the blame back a year or two?
    Geopolitical influence has a 3 year half life now?
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 6,056
    edited September 2015
    rr165892 said:

    First we have to help these people trying to escape the violence.Europe has to step up.We should have learned our lesson from WW 2 about taking in those being persecuted.

    Drowned,you say "we" destabilized the region.Assad and IsIs is doing a fine job of it without our help.You can't put this one on the west.

    Remember the term 'exit plan' in regards to the Iraq war? As in, there wasn't one?
    It was KNOWN from before the invasion that the region would be destabilized and that there was no way for the US to be in and out and leave the place in peace. There are many (including myself) who believe destabilization was the plan...and thats because there were think tanks full of revolving door politician/oligarchs suggesting it as the best way for the US to retain hegemony.
    I guess you don't read my posts or you don't believe anything I share here....I've posted a million articles showing that ISIS has been funded, armed, reinforced and trained covertly or overtly by the US and their allies.
    The Syria situation has been in the works for decades, with planning starting in earnest almost a decade ago. http://www.globalresearch.ca/timeline-of-military-intelligence-operation-u-s-had-planned-syrian-civilian-catastrophe-since-2007/5348052


    Even if you believe the 'official account' of how Syria got to where it is today: it started as a peaceful protest .....eventually, fighting broke out and Assad went all homicidal tyrant. Then ISIS began to stream in from a broken Iraq with the aim of overthrowing Assad, using arms the US had given Iraq.
    That's the (bullshit) official story. Even after watering down the truth to the point of lies, the US has culpability in Syria.

    How are Assad and ISIS destabilizing Afghanistan (the main source of refugees for years prior to last), Libya, Yemen, Somalia etc?
    Post edited by Drowned Out on
  • rr165892rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    Drowned and Gambs.Im so sorry.How could I forget.
    Its all our fault.We are evil.We are the cause of all the worlds problems.No one else in the Middle East or North Africa is to blame.The area is a cesspool of violence.All caused by money Hungry fat Americans.Fucked up radical Islamic fundamentalists really aren't a problem it's all the media fault.
    Do I have this right? Because blame always goes one way on this subject.Im at least willing to acknowledge we do hold some responsibility for destabilization of the reason.But by no means all.It would be nice to see the same from you guys.Wheres the critical assessment of the the other destabilizing governments and entities?
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    rr165892 said:

    Drowned and Gambs.Im so sorry.How could I forget.
    Its all our fault.We are evil.We are the cause of all the worlds problems.No one else in the Middle East or North Africa is to blame.The area is a cesspool of violence.All caused by money Hungry fat Americans.Fucked up radical Islamic fundamentalists really aren't a problem it's all the media fault.
    Do I have this right? Because blame always goes one way on this subject.Im at least willing to acknowledge we do hold some responsibility for destabilization of the reason.But by no means all.It would be nice to see the same from you guys.Wheres the critical assessment of the the other destabilizing governments and entities?

    Blame lies in many places. You had better believe I hold the people committing violence responsible for their actions.
    We can decry radicalism and opportunistic tyrants and warlords who take advantage of vulnerable people. What does that do? What difference will it make? We can't influence the idiots halfway across the world.
    But here, in America, we can vote to influence our government, and ultimately our government's influence on the idiots across the world.
    That's why you can be damn sure that people like myself and Drowned will do our best to make sure that people know what share of the blame our government holds, so that we can hope to elect politicians who won't drag us into the next boneheaded conflict.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    I have considered Jeb because of your confidence in him RR.
    He is a much, much better candidate than I ever would have guessed, and he couldn't be any worse than Hillary.
    I worry that he would jump into war with Iran, or a proxy war against China if the hawks came at him. Would he buck the establishment, or fall into his brother's trap?
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 6,056
    edited September 2015
    What other destabilizing governments and entities?
    Do any other countries overthrow governments or work to do so thru proxies? It happens, but extremely rarely, and if any other country does so it is almost exclusively a neighbour and the result of a border conflict of some sort...or a reaction to provocations that may or may not have had western involvement. It's not a government on the other side of the world who poses no threat.
    Tell me who you're talking about; give me an example and I'll give you an honest assessment.
    Americans seem to take this so personally....this isn't an attack on your personal integrity, rr. This is reality: it's macro-gangsterism. Your country is the sole superpower. No military competition whatsoever. It's not even close. When a country wants to fuck with another country, they ok it with the US. They don't have the power to fuck with the other country, they ask for US support (at a cost). They do so without US support, they risk incurring the wrath of the sole superpower. If the nations in question have any dealings with the US (which most do in some form), the balance cannot be upset unless it somehow benefits the US. The U.S. Also holds enormous sway due to their purchasing power (trade threats). It's just the way it is man! If you read the article I posted, and followed the links it provided, you'd see that the radicals you speak of have been used as a means to an end BY THE US. Divide and conquer. Yes they're a problem but the problem is exacerbated by U.S. - Allied support.
    And yes, the media is largely at fault because they frame the narrative of war as humanitarian, or criticize mostly from a partisan approach, or refuse to rock the boat and lose a press pass or whatever.


    Post edited by Drowned Out on
  • rr165892rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    Destabilizing factors like military coups,splinter groups,Rebels,Warlords,etc.Shit Syria is bombing its own people.Egypt is a big hot political mess.just to name a couple.

    AQ,IS and The Taliban have greatly added to the refugee issue in the countries they operate.

    Gambs,I really want to see a JEB/ Kasich ticket.I think although he won't bad mouth his brother.Jeb isn't Cheneys puppet and will work across the isle.He is a bright guy although a little white bread he's a moderate who has to talk shit in the election cycle.It is a very interesting race.I believe Hillary is done.
  • rr165892 said:

    Destabilizing factors like military coups,splinter groups,Rebels,Warlords,etc.Shit Syria is bombing its own people.Egypt is a big hot political mess.just to name a couple.

    AQ,IS and The Taliban have greatly added to the refugee issue in the countries they operate.

    Jesus. Chasing my tail here. I've already explained this - on this thread, just a few posts up...ISIS is a US/allied creation. Even if you choose not to believe all the evidence and admissions that show they have been provided logistics, funding and training by the US and their allies, that they're reinforced and led by many of the same foreign mercenaries used in Libya....even if you believe the dumbed-down fox version of events....they are a direct result of the war in Iraq.
    AQ was a US creation too, and for similar reason - to fight for US interests.
    The US government gave $43 million in aid to the Taliban in 2000 and $132 million in 2001. In negotiations for a pipeline deal, they were told “You either accept our offer of a carpet of gold, or we bury you under a carpet of bombs.”....
    Egypt...Mubarak was a US puppet for how many decades? They supported him till the bitter end. Did you know the US just resumed supplying arms (heavy arms - tanks and F16s), and billions in aid to Egypt? Of course they did so while 'expressing concerns' over al-sisi's abysmal human rights record. There are US fingerprints all over that country.

    I agree with gambs that we absolutely must hold those committing the violence accountable. But in many cases they are not held responsible because they are our allies, or because they have common goals. They are only held responsible if their actions do not align with US interests. It benefits the US to prop up dictators because they can control their populations with greater ease than a democratic leader can. If a dictator won't play ball, we take them out. Do you honestly think the US gets involved in these places out of the kindness of it's heart?

  • AnnafalkAnnafalk Posts: 4,004
    It is really heartbreaking to see these desperate people and how harsh they are being treated.
    What bothers me also is the difference in how many refuges the countries are taking in. Some countries hardly take in any refuges and the weight gets heavy for others with possible problems to follow.
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,954
    edited September 2015

    It is horrible to read the news from Germany at the moment. The refugee influx has given a certain group of people who are very hostile towards foreigners new forums and support from all kinds of sides. It is especially bad in one state, Saxonia. People are gathering and riot in front of the refugee camps, show their stupidity, intolerance and ignorance on all channels of the social media. It reminds a lot of stuff that happened in the past, and it is horrifying to think about what happens next. I try to catch up with events, but am not always up on everything. From what I am reading, there are certain locations where camps have been set up without getting the vote of the people who live there. The East has a certain history with being hostile to foreigners, oddly enough being an area of Germany where not a lot of them were present for a long time. But it is also happening in the Western part of the country. Not everybody of those rioters would be called a Neonazi, but the tendencies in their thinking and in their words are there. The "concerned citizens", as they have been labelled, try to bring their points of intolerance across by claiming rassist statements that cannot or are not true or to be feared in the least, stating that they are "just concerned". Then the angry mob leads the way and terrible things are happening. It is good to see that this is not something that is everywhere. It is good to see people stepping up, celebrities, politicians, regular people, by having "welcome refugees" fests, donating actions and generally speaking up against this abhorrent display of hate.

    It is really sickening to me that racism is growing because those sick fucks see a lot of people, including children, who are desperate and in need. Imagine looking at them and getting angry at them. Just awful. These are evil people who deserve to be excommunicated by all who are decent.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 38,594

    the rail stations were closed down to stop the influx of people trying to get to Germany. I see big problems with this.
    http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/09/01/europe-searches-vainly-for-answers-as-migrant-crisis-grows/

    Godfather.

    Arent they mostly refugees fleeing war?
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

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    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • dignindignin Posts: 9,336

    Seems every time I see Iceland in the news, I like that country even more...
    http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/item/iceland_could_only_take_in_50_syrian_refugees_10000_icelanders_20150901


    Canada is pathetic when it comes to granting asylum or accepting refugees. our government was denied the ability to turn away refugees based on source country by our supreme court this summer.

    I am embarrassed by the amount of refugees the Canadian Government has taken in because of this crisis. We should be doing a lot more. I'm glad the leaders were talking about this issue on the campaign trail today.

    Also, the media needs to stop calling these people "migrants"


  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,954
    Yeah, I don't know why these folks are migrants and not refugees all of a sudden. Just because they now want into Europe instead of being cool with sitting in some awful refugee camp in a shit hole desert that Europeans don't have to worry about? Or are some of these people actual migrants (aka potential illegal immigrants), mixed up with refugees??
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • dignindignin Posts: 9,336
    PJ_Soul said:

    Yeah, I don't know why these folks are migrants and not refugees all of a sudden. Just because they now want into Europe instead of being cool with sitting in some awful refugee camp in a shit hole desert that Europeans don't have to worry about? Or are some of these people actual migrants (aka potential illegal immigrants), mixed up with refugees??

    http://www.aljazeera.com/blogs/editors-blog/2015/08/al-jazeera-mediterranean-migrants-150820082226309.html
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