The right to bear arms

brianlux

mickeyrat said:

about 15 minutes from my house....

https://twitter.com/darreldrowland/status/1696125266416865756?t=GqkQanZeFqaZqKw72c4rIQ&s=19

Oh man, not good AND too close.

DE4173

https://twitter.com/caitlyn_yaede/status/1696678904683970574?t=puEvPdlDXjpjiujWSG5syQ&s=19

brianlux

Totally misunderstood,I feel bad about that, and major apologies.

Halifax2TheMax

brianlux said:

I have no idea what the hell that means, but I'm guessing it's supposed to be funny.

hmmm...

I’ll assume it’s tomorrow’s front page of the UNC student newspaper and those are text messages from students who were cowering during lockdown. These are “kids” who have grown up doing lock down drills for practice, some for the real deal. Rather than do something about the ready availability of firearms, we’ve normalized gun violence lock down trauma. Can’t concentrate? Don’t do well in crowds? Loud noises startle you and send you into a panic? Tough shit, get over it and toughen up so more people can have guns. ‘Murica, pro-life as it is (nobody said anything about the quality of that life).

brianlux

Halifax2TheMax said:

I’ll assume it’s tomorrow’s front page of the UNC student newspaper and those are text messages from students who were cowering during lockdown. These are “kids” who have grown up doing lock down drills for practice, some for the real deal. Rather than do something about the ready availability of firearms, we’ve normalized gun violence lock down trauma. Can’t concentrate? Don’t do well in crowds? Loud noises startle you and send you into a panic? Tough shit, get over it and toughen up so more people can have guns. ‘Murica, pro-life as it is (nobody said anything about the quality of that life).

My bad and major apologies.  I misunderstood totally.  Again, very sorry for that.

josevolution

Halifax2TheMax said:

brianlux said:

I have no idea what the hell that means, but I'm guessing it's supposed to be funny.

hmmm...

I’ll assume it’s tomorrow’s front page of the UNC student newspaper and those are text messages from students who were cowering during lockdown. These are “kids” who have grown up doing lock down drills for practice, some for the real deal. Rather than do something about the ready availability of firearms, we’ve normalized gun violence lock down trauma. Can’t concentrate? Don’t do well in crowds? Loud noises startle you and send you into a panic? Tough shit, get over it and toughen up so more people can have guns. ‘Murica, pro-life as it is (nobody said anything about the quality of that life).

College life at its best! Where’s the keg parties this weekend

HughFreakingDillon

https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/05/opinions/guns-ar-15-uvalde-school-shooting-fanone/index.html

CNN — 

No weapon has been more in the public eye in America of late than the AR-15, in large part because of its tragic role in some of this country’s deadliest shootings.

The AR-15 has the dubious distinction of being America’s most popular semi-automatic rifle. I’m more familiar with the gun than most people: I own one. And one thing I know for sure is that this weapon doesn’t belong in the hands of the average civilian.

I’ve owned multiple firearms for most of my life. I spent two decades in the Washington Metropolitan Police Department in a number of different roles, as a street cop walking the beat and on various special mission units.

I’m also a card-carrying member of the National Rifle Association. And when I wasn’t at my job doing police work, I worked part-time for several years in firearm sales as well as training law enforcement officers, members of the military and civilians.

I purchased my different guns over the years for the same reason that you might purchase a flathead screwdriver along with a Phillips screwdriver: Each one serves a different purpose. As an avid hunter, I’ve got a gun that I use for turkey hunting, one that I use for waterfowl and one I use to hunt deer and larger game like elk.

I purchased my AR-15 because I was assigned one as part of my police duties. But officers weren’t allowed to take our department-issued weapons home. I felt it was my responsibility to become proficient with any weapon I’d been assigned, so I bought one. And I’ve spent hundreds of hours training so that I could properly use it.

I’ve sold guns at big box retailers and I’ve also sold firearms at a small retail gun store. Some gun buyers have been misled into thinking that the AR-15 is somehow practical for self-defense. But frankly, it’s the last gun that I would recommend for that purpose.

Usually, the motivation for purchasing the AR-15 is simple: People want one because they want one. Most times, the person who buys an AR-15 comes into the store already knowing that they intend to purchase one.

I’ve pressed some customers about why they want an AR-15, but no one could ever come up with a legitimate justification for needing that particular weapon.

Some members of the tinfoil hat brigade have come up with the reply, “We need these weapons because we want to be effective against the government if it becomes tyrannical. That’s part of our Second Amendment right.” Personally, I think that’s ludicrous, but it has become an increasingly popular justification for purchasing a semi-automatic rifle.

The AR-15 was given to law enforcement because more and more frequently police officers were encountering these types of weapons on the street and finding that they were outgunned. One example that springs to mind is the famous 1997 North Hollywood, California, shootout at the Bank of America.

In that incident, two individuals clad in body armor held up a bank in the Los Angeles neighborhood. Police who responded at the scene literally had to run to a nearby gun store to purchase more powerful weapons, because they were using 9 mm pistols, while the bad guys were armed with semi-automatic rifles.

The standoff was one of the most infamous gun battles in American history, with 11 officers wounded – luckily, none fatally – and both robbery suspects shot dead. While it’s an extreme example, it is in many ways the situation encountered by officers all across this country: Police simply are outgunned against semi- and fully automatic firearms.

The bullet that comes out of the barrel of an AR-15 style semi-automatic rifle can easily penetrate the target – the intruder or whatever person you are using deadly force to defend yourself or others from.

But it also will go through the wall behind that person, and potentially through that room and into the next wall. That power and accuracy are useful for military purposes, which is obviously what they were designed for. But it’s far more power than should ever be in the hands of the average civilian.

The bullet fired by the AR-15 is capable of defeating the average police officer’s body armor, like a knife slicing through butter. SWAT teams and some of the more specialized units typically are equipped with level IV Kevlar or steel-plated armor, which would stop maybe two or three direct hits, but eventually body armor breaks down after being hit with multiple rounds.

A person wielding an AR-15 has a range beyond 300 yards. For an officer armed with a 9 mm pistol, hitting a target beyond 50 yards is going to be difficult, even for the most accomplished marksman. A bullet fired by an AR-15 travels at three times the velocity as one fired by a 9 mm handgun. And magazines that can feed dozens of rounds into the weapon in the space of minutes clearly were meant for use only on the battlefield.

The prevalence of these weapons means police sometimes are overmatched, as we saw with the mass shooting in Uvalde, Texas, last month. In a situation where you have small children near the shooter, you want to remove the threat as quickly as possible.

But we all saw the tragic consequences at that elementary school, where police waited for more than an hour before engaging with the teenage gunman armed with an AR-15 who killed 19 young children and two teachers.

I have no doubt that police in Uvalde wish they had had weapons as powerful as the one carried by the shooter who snuffed out the lives of the victims in that school. But a far better outcome would have been if the shooter didn’t have an AR-15 in the first place.

Now that I’m no longer on the police force, my AR-15 collects dust in my gun safe. Rifle ranges that permit the type of training required to use this weapon system effectively are few and far between and the cost of ammunition exceeding a dollar per round is more than this guy can afford. I no longer need it. But neither, to be honest, do most of the people flocking to guns stores to buy one.

Banning these powerful weapons from the civilian marketplace is a no-brainer, as are universal background checks. Neither move is going to solve all the gun problems that we have, but it would be a start.

And outlawing these AR-15s would not require confiscating them from people who already have them. Once you’ve made these weapons illegal, anyone found with one would be subject to arrest, since possession of these weapons would be a crime. I think it’s likely that you would see a lot of people opting to turn them in.

If banning them outright seems like too extreme a solution to be politically palatable, here’s another option: Reclassify semi-automatic rifles as Class 3 firearms.

That would mean that someone wanting to purchase an AR-15 would have to go through a background check, fingerprinting and review by an official from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives – a process that takes anywhere from 12 to 16 months. And since Class 3 weapons can’t be purchased by anyone younger than 21, it would solve the issue of emotionally unstable 18-year-olds buying them.

A Class 3 firearm reclassification would also make those who are approved to purchase these weapons subject to an annual check that they are complying with federal regulations regarding secure storage of the firearm, and to confirm their licensing and other paperwork is up to date. All of these hoops and hurdles are sure to reduce the civilian demand for these weapons.

I can’t overstate how dangerous it is to have semi-automatic weapons like the AR-15 in the hands of civilians. Our public officials have it within their power to help make it harder for people who shouldn’t have these weapons to get them.

A police officer should never have to worry about being outgunned by the bad guy they’re protecting the public against.

tempo_n_groove

Interesting that this person doesn't mention that the Hollywood shootout was used w AK47's and 9mm rounds. He makes it sound like AR's were used there when they weren't.

I don't agree with banning them or making them a Class 3 weapon.  Class 3 is a pain in the ass.  

I have no problems with making it more difficult in getting them though.  As I get older I too realize that not everyone should own these.

mickeyrat

tempo_n_groove said:

Interesting that this person doesn't mention that the Hollywood shootout was used w AK47's and 9mm rounds. He makes it sound like AR's were used there when they weren't.

I don't agree with banning them or making them a Class 3 weapon.  Class 3 is a pain in the ass.  

I have no problems with making it more difficult in getting them though.  As I get older I too realize that not everyone should own these.

no. he said they were outgunned with auto and semi auto, necessitating the need to go to gun stores in the middle of it. and from that incident , L.E. began aquiring these weapons.

tempo_n_groove

mickeyrat said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Interesting that this person doesn't mention that the Hollywood shootout was used w AK47's and 9mm rounds. He makes it sound like AR's were used there when they weren't.

I don't agree with banning them or making them a Class 3 weapon.  Class 3 is a pain in the ass.  

I have no problems with making it more difficult in getting them though.  As I get older I too realize that not everyone should own these.

no. he said they were outgunned with auto and semi auto, necessitating the need to go to gun stores in the middle of it. and from that incident , L.E. began aquiring these weapons.

YES.

He says that but, he makes no mention of them being AK's. The whole article revolves around the AR. I'm very familiar with the whole situation and what transpired during and found it odd that he left that part out.  The cops didn't "purchase" those weapons either, the store owner handed them over.

mace1229

tempo_n_groove said:

mickeyrat said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Interesting that this person doesn't mention that the Hollywood shootout was used w AK47's and 9mm rounds. He makes it sound like AR's were used there when they weren't.

I don't agree with banning them or making them a Class 3 weapon.  Class 3 is a pain in the ass.  

I have no problems with making it more difficult in getting them though.  As I get older I too realize that not everyone should own these.

no. he said they were outgunned with auto and semi auto, necessitating the need to go to gun stores in the middle of it. and from that incident , L.E. began aquiring these weapons.

YES.

He says that but, he makes no mention of them being AK's. The whole article revolves around the AR. I'm very familiar with the whole situation and what transpired during and found it odd that he left that part out.  The cops didn't "purchase" those weapons either, the store owner handed them over.

He does say "these types of weapons," which to me implies its not an AR but something similar. And I would agree with that, an AK is not an AR, but it is similar in that it's an assault rifle designed for the military. There's no need for him to be specific and mention AK-47 here with the point he's making. 

tempo_n_groove

mace1229 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mickeyrat said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Interesting that this person doesn't mention that the Hollywood shootout was used w AK47's and 9mm rounds. He makes it sound like AR's were used there when they weren't.

I don't agree with banning them or making them a Class 3 weapon.  Class 3 is a pain in the ass.  

I have no problems with making it more difficult in getting them though.  As I get older I too realize that not everyone should own these.

no. he said they were outgunned with auto and semi auto, necessitating the need to go to gun stores in the middle of it. and from that incident , L.E. began aquiring these weapons.

YES.

He says that but, he makes no mention of them being AK's. The whole article revolves around the AR. I'm very familiar with the whole situation and what transpired during and found it odd that he left that part out.  The cops didn't "purchase" those weapons either, the store owner handed them over.

He does say "these types of weapons," which to me implies its not an AR but something similar. And I would agree with that, an AK is not an AR, but it is similar in that it's an assault rifle designed for the military. There's no need for him to be specific and mention AK-47 here with the point he's making. 

Just wondering if you might have thought it was an AR before reading my comment?

It's not that big a deal as I know where he was going with it just interesting that he didn't point out that they used an AK and also a HK91.  Those two guns aren't well known to the public I guess?

There are a lot of states that have changed their laws because of instances like the Hollywood bank robbery.  Interesting enough the guns the shooters had were banned and the suspects were allowed to keep them from a judge in that they were to sell them and recoup money to help pay their bills.

I would hope that this would never happen today.

mace1229

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mickeyrat said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Interesting that this person doesn't mention that the Hollywood shootout was used w AK47's and 9mm rounds. He makes it sound like AR's were used there when they weren't.

I don't agree with banning them or making them a Class 3 weapon.  Class 3 is a pain in the ass.  

I have no problems with making it more difficult in getting them though.  As I get older I too realize that not everyone should own these.

no. he said they were outgunned with auto and semi auto, necessitating the need to go to gun stores in the middle of it. and from that incident , L.E. began aquiring these weapons.

YES.

He says that but, he makes no mention of them being AK's. The whole article revolves around the AR. I'm very familiar with the whole situation and what transpired during and found it odd that he left that part out.  The cops didn't "purchase" those weapons either, the store owner handed them over.

He does say "these types of weapons," which to me implies its not an AR but something similar. And I would agree with that, an AK is not an AR, but it is similar in that it's an assault rifle designed for the military. There's no need for him to be specific and mention AK-47 here with the point he's making. 

Just wondering if you might have thought it was an AR before reading my comment?

It's not that big a deal as I know where he was going with it just interesting that he didn't point out that they used an AK and also a HK91.  Those two guns aren't well known to the public I guess?

There are a lot of states that have changed their laws because of instances like the Hollywood bank robbery.  Interesting enough the guns the shooters had were banned and the suspects were allowed to keep them from a judge in that they were to sell them and recoup money to help pay their bills.

I would hope that this would never happen today.

Can't really say because I read your comment first before I read that article. I also think I already knew it was an AK. I say I think because its hard to go back and try to remember what I didn't remember after talking about it.
But I was in high school when it happened and lived about half hour away.  I remembered they had body armor, and the one dude shot himself with his hand gun when his rifle got a stove pipe jam that anyone with gun experience should be able to clear in a couple seconds, but for some reason he didn't and just shot himself instead. And the other guy tried to carjack someone, but the victim took the keys and ran off. Then they had a shootout which was one of the craziest things I've ever seen. He was hit multiple times and bled to death while waiting for the ambulance, then his mom sued the city for taking so long, even though they took so long because they had to help all the people he shot first. I didn't know one used an HK91, but pretty sure I knew one used an AK.
I feel like AKs are well known, at least well recognized. Even if you don't know it by name, people are going to recognize an AK-47 if you've ever seen any movie with any terrorist in it ever. Or any Vietnam war movie, or almost any post WWII war movie. Its the most widely used assault rifle in the world. I think people just say AR to mean Assault Rifle, and not specifically AR-15.

tempo_n_groove

mace1229 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mickeyrat said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Interesting that this person doesn't mention that the Hollywood shootout was used w AK47's and 9mm rounds. He makes it sound like AR's were used there when they weren't.

I don't agree with banning them or making them a Class 3 weapon.  Class 3 is a pain in the ass.  

I have no problems with making it more difficult in getting them though.  As I get older I too realize that not everyone should own these.

no. he said they were outgunned with auto and semi auto, necessitating the need to go to gun stores in the middle of it. and from that incident , L.E. began aquiring these weapons.

YES.

He says that but, he makes no mention of them being AK's. The whole article revolves around the AR. I'm very familiar with the whole situation and what transpired during and found it odd that he left that part out.  The cops didn't "purchase" those weapons either, the store owner handed them over.

He does say "these types of weapons," which to me implies its not an AR but something similar. And I would agree with that, an AK is not an AR, but it is similar in that it's an assault rifle designed for the military. There's no need for him to be specific and mention AK-47 here with the point he's making. 

Just wondering if you might have thought it was an AR before reading my comment?

It's not that big a deal as I know where he was going with it just interesting that he didn't point out that they used an AK and also a HK91.  Those two guns aren't well known to the public I guess?

There are a lot of states that have changed their laws because of instances like the Hollywood bank robbery.  Interesting enough the guns the shooters had were banned and the suspects were allowed to keep them from a judge in that they were to sell them and recoup money to help pay their bills.

I would hope that this would never happen today.

Can't really say because I read your comment first before I read that article. I also think I already knew it was an AK. I say I think because its hard to go back and try to remember what I didn't remember after talking about it.
But I was in high school when it happened and lived about half hour away.  I remembered they had body armor, and the one dude shot himself with his hand gun when his rifle got a stove pipe jam that anyone with gun experience should be able to clear in a couple seconds, but for some reason he didn't and just shot himself instead. And the other guy tried to carjack someone, but the victim took the keys and ran off. Then they had a shootout which was one of the craziest things I've ever seen. He was hit multiple times and bled to death while waiting for the ambulance, then his mom sued the city for taking so long, even though they took so long because they had to help all the people he shot first. I didn't know one used an HK91, but pretty sure I knew one used an AK.
I feel like AKs are well known, at least well recognized. Even if you don't know it by name, people are going to recognize an AK-47 if you've ever seen any movie with any terrorist in it ever. Or any Vietnam war movie, or almost any post WWII war movie. Its the most widely used assault rifle in the world. I think people just say AR to mean Assault Rifle, and not specifically AR-15.

I was curious about the AK's because we are getting older and every rap song talked about them back in the day, not so much in todays music.

I used to visit LA county during that time, used to work there too.  Lived between cali and Alaska/Seattle during that time.  Just like you I thought it was crazy but then again we always had high speed chases televised on tv in Cali.

mickeyrat

https://twitter.com/AmoneyResists/status/1696877035346395516?t=GYbxkMLZWDR7mrbuNdPesg&s=19

tempo_n_groove

mickeyrat said:

https://twitter.com/AmoneyResists/status/1696877035346395516?t=GYbxkMLZWDR7mrbuNdPesg&s=19

Good luck with this one.

The estate is claiming that it's the police's fault that people were allowed to run amok which led to his death.

The kid was an idiot for what he did but I don't see this case getting any momentum.

Go Beavers

tempo_n_groove said:

mickeyrat said:

https://twitter.com/AmoneyResists/status/1696877035346395516?t=GYbxkMLZWDR7mrbuNdPesg&s=19

Good luck with this one.

The estate is claiming that it's the police's fault that people were allowed to run amok which led to his death.

The kid was an idiot for what he did but I don't see this case getting any momentum.

Unfortunately our laws allow people to run amok with guns. 

mickeyrat

tempo_n_groove said:

mickeyrat said:

https://twitter.com/AmoneyResists/status/1696877035346395516?t=GYbxkMLZWDR7mrbuNdPesg&s=19

Good luck with this one.

The estate is claiming that it's the police's fault that people were allowed to run amok which led to his death.

The kid was an idiot for what he did but I don't see this case getting any momentum.

the waved at him as he was making his way past them toward the crowds. dudes an adult now and looks young. looked even younger then and they don't stop and question? at all?

mickeyrat

https://twitter.com/NoLieWithBTC/status/1697029032984883520?t=8i1HpXpo5uHcRmuFnMbvpg&s=19

Halifax2TheMax

mickeyrat said:

https://twitter.com/NoLieWithBTC/status/1697029032984883520?t=8i1HpXpo5uHcRmuFnMbvpg&s=19

Will the “responsible” gun owner teaching “firearm safety” go to prison for their stupidity? Or, does 2A apply to 4 year olds and it was their “right” to possess a firearm and be taught “firearms safety?” Hey, but did you hear Hunter Biden lied on his federal firearm form?