It's an explosive mixture of many things. A culture that is based on the principles of capitalism, a harsh world where everybody needs to fight on their own. Greed, entitlement, extreme wealth, extreme poverty, overflow and dire need go hand in hand. People get their "education" from the internet or bullshit media. Bullying and aggression are ruling in the social platforms, people think they live in a movie. That coupled with a culture that has always been oddly fascinated with guns and a more than shameful social support system might make a person who has issues and feel like they deserve better and don't get heard go and destroy the lives of others. I'm not American, but I'm fucking sick of the gun defending arguments. Something needs to be done.
Aren't you glad you moved here j/k , i totally agree with your assessment this is a cultural problem .....
my suggestions from another thread on how to curtail gun violence and keeping them out of the wrong hands: every weapon bought has to be registered with the state and federal government. Before owning a gun you must take a firearm safety course. Before owning a gun you must pass a background check. Before owning a gun you must pass a mental health background check. Before owning your first gun your employer should be contacted to make sure there are no problems. Penalties for straw purchases and selling guns illegally should be enforced and more severe. Educate children (what age I don't know) on what a firearm is, what it can do, what to do if you find one in you house. Educate on safely storing firearms: pass a law that provides a gun lock with every firearm purchase. Here in nj we have a maximum of 15 rounds for a detachable clip but I don't see why a federal policy of max of 30 rounds isn't reasonable. Don't ban any guns, just make sure people are fit to use them responsibly. to me people don't want background checks because they have something to hide. just my .02.
Smh. Shame. I thought we were on the same page with violence.
Guns don't kill people. People kill people. Zero guns have decided to fire themselves and kill anyone.
Right now the people in the ghettos who have guns, didn't obtain them legally. If we remove all rights to buy guns, then we have zero chance to defend ourselves against the criminals who obtain them illegally.
Anything else is spin and thinking too much into.
If we all had a pistol on our hip the world would be so much better. I wouldn't get raped if someone knew I had a pistol on my hip. People wouldn't steal if they thought the consequence would be death.
Just my .02. Doubt many will agree here but I refuse to compromise my beliefs.
right...guns don't kill people, people with guns kill people
I mean you can't talk about gun laws without talking about hunting. they go together.
Well no, not technically. But I don't personally know anyone who groups hunting and gun violence. I never met anyone who wanted to outlaw hunting under the existing guidelines (besides perhaps the side issues of hunting tourism and endangered animals).
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
What's the obsession with owning a weapon? To me anyone who thinks that they must own a weapon already has a mental illness.
I m 37 and started hunting with my dad and grandfather when I was ten. I ll continue the tradition with my own kids. I guess we all have mental illnesses you dumb ass.
So you have no reason to be opposed to regulations which make it harder for lunatics to get guns?
We sure as hell aren't getting rids of guns so baby steps with regulations.
please read my many posts on this topic. i've said many times that background checks are key; the more the better. hell i live in new jersey (second toughest gun laws in the country) and I have no problem in what I have to do in order to get a gun. i was just chiming in because of that moron who said anybody who wants a gun has a mental illness. i think that's the first time i've ever called someone a dumb ass on this board (and now a moron). pjsoul is right, the meat is the bonus. spending time with my dad and father in law in that setting is priceless.
I think the desire to have a weapon for fun is a weird thing. I think to go out and enjoy killing something that is unaware in it's natural habitat is a weird thing.
Just to take it back before to what we were talking about with regard to media coverage, have you guys seen this? What the actual fuck. The Daily News is seriously gunning for the Post's spot as 'worst newspaper ever'
I wonder why Huffington would show the images, vs. only the story itself of the Daily News doing it.
I assume because they don't want to hand the daily news the pageviews from their curious readers. I get what you're saying though. Its a bit pot meet kettle.
Smh. Shame. I thought we were on the same page with violence.
Guns don't kill people. People kill people. Zero guns have decided to fire themselves and kill anyone.
Right now the people in the ghettos who have guns, didn't obtain them legally. If we remove all rights to buy guns, then we have zero chance to defend ourselves against the criminals who obtain them illegally.
Anything else is spin and thinking too much into.
If we all had a pistol on our hip the world would be so much better. I wouldn't get raped if someone knew I had a pistol on my hip. People wouldn't steal if they thought the consequence would be death.
Just my .02. Doubt many will agree here but I refuse to compromise my beliefs.
right...guns don't kill people, people with guns kill people
No.. People kill people.
So you must think that rocket launchers, bombs, poison gas and anthrax should be legal as well, right? Your argument is that the weapon is not part of the discussion, only the person with intent to kill.
I wonder why Huffington would show the images, vs. only the story itself of the Daily News doing it.
Most news outlets have posted photos and/or the original new video online. The issue here is apparently that it's plastered on the front page of a paper that is impossible to avoid at newsstands, as opposed to having to seek it out on the internet and sometimes reading a warning about it being disturbing (or that's what I have to assume, since yeah, all the news outlets have posted the original video and displayed the front page from the Daily News).
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
It's an explosive mixture of many things. A culture that is based on the principles of capitalism, a harsh world where everybody needs to fight on their own. Greed, entitlement, extreme wealth, extreme poverty, overflow and dire need go hand in hand. People get their "education" from the internet or bullshit media. Bullying and aggression are ruling in the social platforms, people think they live in a movie. That coupled with a culture that has always been oddly fascinated with guns and a more than shameful social support system might make a person who has issues and feel like they deserve better and don't get heard go and destroy the lives of others. I'm not American, but I'm fucking sick of the gun defending arguments. Something needs to be done.
Aren't you glad you moved here j/k , i totally agree with your assessment this is a cultural problem .....
I am not regretting my decision. But I definitely grew up in a different culture. That is not to say that what I read about what is going in my homecountry at the moment is anything to be proud of.
As for the whole hunting thing. It always seems to me that whenever you say that you don't understand hunting because you don't want to kill a living being or whatever, people come with the tradition thing and get all defensive. I would never want to hunt, and I don't get the pride people seem to get from killing a majestic animal and posing with its dead body, but hunting to me is separate from the gun issue. We have hunters and shooting clubs in Germany too. There's just not that many people into it. I don't know if it is expensive. Maybe people really do not think about guns as much.
Please, Pearl Jam, consider a Benaroya Hall vinyl reissue!
Smh. Shame. I thought we were on the same page with violence.
Guns don't kill people. People kill people. Zero guns have decided to fire themselves and kill anyone.
Right now the people in the ghettos who have guns, didn't obtain them legally. If we remove all rights to buy guns, then we have zero chance to defend ourselves against the criminals who obtain them illegally.
Anything else is spin and thinking too much into.
If we all had a pistol on our hip the world would be so much better. I wouldn't get raped if someone knew I had a pistol on my hip. People wouldn't steal if they thought the consequence would be death.
Just my .02. Doubt many will agree here but I refuse to compromise my beliefs.
right...guns don't kill people, people with guns kill people
No.. People kill people.
In all fairness, guns make the job a whole lot easier.
guns are made to kill people. That is what they are intended for. It is very strange they are legal at all.
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
edited August 2015
So this guy passed the background checks and legally purchased the gun, correct? This is what I read earlier, anyway (honestly, my threshold for this shit isn't as high as it used to be; just need the occasional break, I guess).
Anyway, earlier I caught a news segment about CPS and the like investigating children's well-being out here, and it got me thinking how so many of them are dismissed, mis-read, or just overlooked in the care they need and deserve - whether the lack of oversight is due to apathy or lack of personnel, resources, I don't know - but if THAT can't be done at some basic productive level (sad I can't even say "be done well"), how can the government screening an adult with at the least an alarm or two in their background making a purchase like this do any better?
Ha! I've never made a run-on quite like that up there.
my suggestions from another thread on how to curtail gun violence and keeping them out of the wrong hands: every weapon bought has to be registered with the state and federal government. Before owning a gun you must take a firearm safety course. Before owning a gun you must pass a background check. Before owning a gun you must pass a mental health background check. Before owning your first gun your employer should be contacted to make sure there are no problems. Penalties for straw purchases and selling guns illegally should be enforced and more severe. Educate children (what age I don't know) on what a firearm is, what it can do, what to do if you find one in you house. Educate on safely storing firearms: pass a law that provides a gun lock with every firearm purchase. Here in nj we have a maximum of 15 rounds for a detachable clip but I don't see why a federal policy of max of 30 rounds isn't reasonable. Don't ban any guns, just make sure people are fit to use them responsibly. to me people don't want background checks because they have something to hide. just my .02.
Or... We could just get rid of guns, right?
I have enjoyed hunting many times and agree that gun owning can be done respectfully.
Again, guns don't kill people, people do. What about all the murders using knives? Cars? Should we ban those also?
Oh and be sure and cut off hands because those can kill too.
my suggestions from another thread on how to curtail gun violence and keeping them out of the wrong hands: every weapon bought has to be registered with the state and federal government. Before owning a gun you must take a firearm safety course. Before owning a gun you must pass a background check. Before owning a gun you must pass a mental health background check. Before owning your first gun your employer should be contacted to make sure there are no problems. Penalties for straw purchases and selling guns illegally should be enforced and more severe. Educate children (what age I don't know) on what a firearm is, what it can do, what to do if you find one in you house. Educate on safely storing firearms: pass a law that provides a gun lock with every firearm purchase. Here in nj we have a maximum of 15 rounds for a detachable clip but I don't see why a federal policy of max of 30 rounds isn't reasonable. Don't ban any guns, just make sure people are fit to use them responsibly. to me people don't want background checks because they have something to hide. just my .02.
Or... We could just get rid of guns, right?
I have enjoyed hunting many times and agree that gun owning can be done respectfully.
Again, guns don't kill people, people do. What about all the murders using knives? Cars? Should we ban those also?
Oh and be sure and cut off hands because those can kill too.
How many times must it be said? A knife's primary objective is as a cooking utensil, and it cannot murder nearly as quickly as a gun. A car's primary objective is to take a person from point A to point B. Regardless of the motive, a gun's primary objective is to instil fear and to cause injury or death.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
my suggestions from another thread on how to curtail gun violence and keeping them out of the wrong hands: every weapon bought has to be registered with the state and federal government. Before owning a gun you must take a firearm safety course. Before owning a gun you must pass a background check. Before owning a gun you must pass a mental health background check. Before owning your first gun your employer should be contacted to make sure there are no problems. Penalties for straw purchases and selling guns illegally should be enforced and more severe. Educate children (what age I don't know) on what a firearm is, what it can do, what to do if you find one in you house. Educate on safely storing firearms: pass a law that provides a gun lock with every firearm purchase. Here in nj we have a maximum of 15 rounds for a detachable clip but I don't see why a federal policy of max of 30 rounds isn't reasonable. Don't ban any guns, just make sure people are fit to use them responsibly. to me people don't want background checks because they have something to hide. just my .02.
Or... We could just get rid of guns, right?
I have enjoyed hunting many times and agree that gun owning can be done respectfully.
Again, guns don't kill people, people do. What about all the murders using knives? Cars? Should we ban those also?
Oh and be sure and cut off hands because those can kill too.
No where in my post do I give the slightest hint of banning guns. in fact I said don't ban any guns. If you are a Resonsible gun owner like myself, which of my suggestions do you have an issue with?
my suggestions from another thread on how to curtail gun violence and keeping them out of the wrong hands: every weapon bought has to be registered with the state and federal government. Before owning a gun you must take a firearm safety course. Before owning a gun you must pass a background check. Before owning a gun you must pass a mental health background check. Before owning your first gun your employer should be contacted to make sure there are no problems. Penalties for straw purchases and selling guns illegally should be enforced and more severe. Educate children (what age I don't know) on what a firearm is, what it can do, what to do if you find one in you house. Educate on safely storing firearms: pass a law that provides a gun lock with every firearm purchase. Here in nj we have a maximum of 15 rounds for a detachable clip but I don't see why a federal policy of max of 30 rounds isn't reasonable. Don't ban any guns, just make sure people are fit to use them responsibly. to me people don't want background checks because they have something to hide. just my .02.
many good points..but my .02 says go ahead and ban them. People snap..if there are no guns laying around these types of things obviously won't happen.
I understand your time spent with family is precious.. Take them to a pj show..much better setting!
the only gun problem I can think of is that I can't afford every gun I'd like to have.
Godfather.
Get your head out of the sand. What's more important - your own naive delusions that everything is better with a well-armed population and government-endorsed right to bear arms, or the fact that this graph shows what it does about a population with guns readily available?
You're talking about a provable correlation between number of guns in circulation, and fatality rates in the population. America, by this chart, has around nine times the fatality by firearms rate as the next country.
Post edited by benjs on
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Please just leave hunting out of this debate if someone wants start s thread about hunting go ahead .....let's keep this on track again weapons & demented people make for a lethal combination this country needs to figure a way to keep these weapons away from them and who ever can't admit what the soul purpose of a gun is for get your head out of your arse ....
(CNN)Early Wednesday morning, Alison Parker and Adam Ward were on assignment in Moneta, Virginia -- Parker as a reporter and Ward as a cameraman. Working for WDBJ7, Roanoke's CBS affiliate, they were working on a story about the 50th anniversary of Smith Mountain Lake and interviewing Vicki Gardner, who leads Smith Mountain Lake's Chamber of Commerce.
Colin Goddard Colin Goddard In other words, they were doing their jobs.
Until, in a few terrifying moments on live TV, they weren't.
Instead they became two more victims of our nation's gun violence epidemic. A disgruntled former WDBJ employee shot them both, severely wounding Gardner in the process. It was a chilling look at gun violence in this country, a crisis that kills more than 30,000 Americans each and every year.
Wednesday's horror hit particularly close to home for me, because, like Ward, I, too, am an alum of Virginia Tech. It's conceivable that I could have crossed paths with him during our shared time on the Blacksburg campus. A little over eight years ago I survived the infamous mass shooting at Tech, which is less than 80 miles from where Ward died. Shrapnel is still lodged in my body from that day, but I was lucky to emerge with my life intact. Thirty-two others were killed.
The extremist leadership of the National Rifle Association and other gun lobby groups routinely respond to these incidents with empty platitudes about how "the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun." In light of what transpired Wednesday, I'd like to follow their rhetoric to its logical end by asking them a couple of simple questions that our elected officials answer all too rarely.
Are reporters supposed to keep a revolver in their left hands and hold onto the microphone with their right? Do cameramen avert death if they stare down the sights of an AR-15 with one eye while looking into the camera with the other?
These questions, of course, reveal the absurdly unserious nature of the gun lobby's worldview.
While the details of how the shooter in the televised killing obtained his weapon continue to unfold, we know that requiring background checks on all gun sales would save lives. And yet despite this, gun lobby groups routinely hawk the idea that implementing background checks on all gun sales is overly burdensome to prospective buyers, as if the 90 additional seconds required to make sure the buyer isn't a convicted domestic abuser or dangerously mentally ill is somehow an affront to one's rights.
Try telling that to a family member whose loved one was killed because a gunman avoided a background check. And yet for years, these groups have had enough political clout to scare politicians out of backing common sense reforms. Every year in Virginia, a small group of four gun lobby-backed legislators won't even allow a basic background checks bill out of a House subcommittee.
While checks are required on sales at federally licensed dealers, criminals and other dangerous people can all too easily shirk such checks by purchasing guns from unlicensed strangers -- whether online, at a gun show or elsewhere.
After tragedies like Wednesday's, gun extremists will often try to change the subject. Sometimes they'll suggest it's "too soon" to talk about the bigger-picture policy issues that could help reduce gun violence. They'll say that it would be "irresponsible to politicize" these moments, as if merely discussing ways to prevent future tragedies like these somehow dishonors the victims. If we followed this logic, there would never be a time to have these conversations, because 88 Americans are shot and killed every day.
The truth is, elected officials who aren't willing to take action want these events to recede from the headlines so they can return to the status quo of not standing up to the gun lobby.
It's time for all Americans to come together and ask our lawmakers, "Do you side with the overwhelming number of Americans who support basic gun safety measures or do you side with the gun lobby?"
For the sake of the many Americans whose lives were destroyed during this cruel summer of gun violence -- while doing their jobs, enjoying a night out at the movies, or praying in their house of worship -- we demand that political leaders side the right way and take action to end this crisis.
Comments
LIVEFOOTSTEPS.ORG/USER/?USR=435
**WARNING GRAPHIC PHOTO IN THE LINK BELOW**
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/new-york-daily-news-cover-shocks-with-graphic-cover-of-murdered-journalists_55de8078e4b029b3f1b19cd2?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000063
I was gonna embed the photo but I'm not comfortable posting it.
LIVEFOOTSTEPS.ORG/USER/?USR=435
LIVEFOOTSTEPS.ORG/USER/?USR=435
Your argument is that the weapon is not part of the discussion, only the person with intent to kill.
As for the whole hunting thing. It always seems to me that whenever you say that you don't understand hunting because you don't want to kill a living being or whatever, people come with the tradition thing and get all defensive. I would never want to hunt, and I don't get the pride people seem to get from killing a majestic animal and posing with its dead body, but hunting to me is separate from the gun issue. We have hunters and shooting clubs in Germany too. There's just not that many people into it. I don't know if it is expensive. Maybe people really do not think about guns as much.
Anyway, earlier I caught a news segment about CPS and the like investigating children's well-being out here, and it got me thinking how so many of them are dismissed, mis-read, or just overlooked in the care they need and deserve - whether the lack of oversight is due to apathy or lack of personnel, resources, I don't know - but if THAT can't be done at some basic productive level (sad I can't even say "be done well"), how can the government screening an adult with at the least an alarm or two in their background making a purchase like this do any better?
Ha! I've never made a run-on quite like that up there.
Or... We could just get rid of guns, right?
I have enjoyed hunting many times and agree that gun owning can be done respectfully.
Again, guns don't kill people, people do. What about all the murders using knives? Cars? Should we ban those also?
Oh and be sure and cut off hands because those can kill too.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Resonsible gun owner like myself, which of my suggestions do you have an issue with?
I understand your time spent with family is precious.. Take them to a pj show..much better setting!
Godfather.
AMERICA HAS A GUN PROBLEM!! Thanks for reading..
You're talking about a provable correlation between number of guns in circulation, and fatality rates in the population. America, by this chart, has around nine times the fatality by firearms rate as the next country.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
(CNN)Early Wednesday morning, Alison Parker and Adam Ward were on assignment in Moneta, Virginia -- Parker as a reporter and Ward as a cameraman. Working for WDBJ7, Roanoke's CBS affiliate, they were working on a story about the 50th anniversary of Smith Mountain Lake and interviewing Vicki Gardner, who leads Smith Mountain Lake's Chamber of Commerce.
Colin Goddard
Colin Goddard
In other words, they were doing their jobs.
Until, in a few terrifying moments on live TV, they weren't.
Instead they became two more victims of our nation's gun violence epidemic. A disgruntled former WDBJ employee shot them both, severely wounding Gardner in the process. It was a chilling look at gun violence in this country, a crisis that kills more than 30,000 Americans each and every year.
Wednesday's horror hit particularly close to home for me, because, like Ward, I, too, am an alum of Virginia Tech. It's conceivable that I could have crossed paths with him during our shared time on the Blacksburg campus. A little over eight years ago I survived the infamous mass shooting at Tech, which is less than 80 miles from where Ward died. Shrapnel is still lodged in my body from that day, but I was lucky to emerge with my life intact. Thirty-two others were killed.
The extremist leadership of the National Rifle Association and other gun lobby groups routinely respond to these incidents with empty platitudes about how "the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun." In light of what transpired Wednesday, I'd like to follow their rhetoric to its logical end by asking them a couple of simple questions that our elected officials answer all too rarely.
Are reporters supposed to keep a revolver in their left hands and hold onto the microphone with their right? Do cameramen avert death if they stare down the sights of an AR-15 with one eye while looking into the camera with the other?
These questions, of course, reveal the absurdly unserious nature of the gun lobby's worldview.
While the details of how the shooter in the televised killing obtained his weapon continue to unfold, we know that requiring background checks on all gun sales would save lives. And yet despite this, gun lobby groups routinely hawk the idea that implementing background checks on all gun sales is overly burdensome to prospective buyers, as if the 90 additional seconds required to make sure the buyer isn't a convicted domestic abuser or dangerously mentally ill is somehow an affront to one's rights.
Try telling that to a family member whose loved one was killed because a gunman avoided a background check. And yet for years, these groups have had enough political clout to scare politicians out of backing common sense reforms. Every year in Virginia, a small group of four gun lobby-backed legislators won't even allow a basic background checks bill out of a House subcommittee.
While checks are required on sales at federally licensed dealers, criminals and other dangerous people can all too easily shirk such checks by purchasing guns from unlicensed strangers -- whether online, at a gun show or elsewhere.
After tragedies like Wednesday's, gun extremists will often try to change the subject. Sometimes they'll suggest it's "too soon" to talk about the bigger-picture policy issues that could help reduce gun violence. They'll say that it would be "irresponsible to politicize" these moments, as if merely discussing ways to prevent future tragedies like these somehow dishonors the victims. If we followed this logic, there would never be a time to have these conversations, because 88 Americans are shot and killed every day.
The truth is, elected officials who aren't willing to take action want these events to recede from the headlines so they can return to the status quo of not standing up to the gun lobby.
It's time for all Americans to come together and ask our lawmakers, "Do you side with the overwhelming number of Americans who support basic gun safety measures or do you side with the gun lobby?"
For the sake of the many Americans whose lives were destroyed during this cruel summer of gun violence -- while doing their jobs, enjoying a night out at the movies, or praying in their house of worship -- we demand that political leaders side the right way and take action to end this crisis.