We (SC) didn't even give Susan Smith the death penalty for killing her own kids.
That was before I moved down here. But remember hearing about it and thinking it was odd that she didn't get the DP. Not only did she get to live, but got pregnant from a guard in prison.
One thing this state does not lack is horrendous crimes. Susan Smith may be the only rival to dylan roof when it comes to heinous acts committed in this state since slavery.
I don't remember enough about the Smith case to comment but if she got pregnant in prison and a guard was the father then that's abuse, plain and simple. There is no way to excuse the guard's behaviour.
I don't think there was any abuse going on by the guard. They had an ongoing relationship. I'm sure Smith was using the guard more than the guard was using Smith. Everything was consensual from what I remembered.
Maybe she agreed, but the power differential between a prison guard and an inmate is such that it's never going to be a consensual relationship. You can't have a consensual relationship with someone who holds power over pretty much every aspect of your life.
Maybe. And just maybe she was an eager and willing participant.
Either way... who cares? She's hardly a victim. Hearing of her humping in prison is very distasteful news.
Doesn't matter if she was willing. Doesn't matter any more than if it was a doctor with a "willing"patient, or a teacher with a "wiling" student. The power differential is too great.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
Doesn't matter if she was willing. Doesn't matter any more than if it was a doctor with a "willing"patient, or a teacher with a "wiling" student. The power differential is too great.
Doesn't matter if she was willing. Doesn't matter any more than if it was a doctor with a "willing"patient, or a teacher with a "wiling" student. The power differential is too great.
Poor Susan Smith?
Read from my post whatever you wish. You're going to do that anyway. But maybe first consider whether that would be your opinion in another case of a woman getting pregnant while incarcerated.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
Doesn't matter if she was willing. Doesn't matter any more than if it was a doctor with a "willing"patient, or a teacher with a "wiling" student. The power differential is too great.
Poor Susan Smith?
Read from my post whatever you wish. You're going to do that anyway. But maybe first consider whether that would be your opinion in another case of a woman getting pregnant while incarcerated.
Key term: incarcerated. Hardly a school aged child or trusting patient which you tried to compare the child killer to.
I agreed with you that the guard was completely out of line, but I'd be reaching if I agreed that Smith was placed in a position where she was manipulated by circumstances into compliance.
We (SC) didn't even give Susan Smith the death penalty for killing her own kids.
That was before I moved down here. But remember hearing about it and thinking it was odd that she didn't get the DP. Not only did she get to live, but got pregnant from a guard in prison.
One thing this state does not lack is horrendous crimes. Susan Smith may be the only rival to dylan roof when it comes to heinous acts committed in this state since slavery.
I don't remember enough about the Smith case to comment but if she got pregnant in prison and a guard was the father then that's abuse, plain and simple. There is no way to excuse the guard's behaviour.
I don't think there was any abuse going on by the guard. They had an ongoing relationship. I'm sure Smith was using the guard more than the guard was using Smith. Everything was consensual from what I remembered.
Maybe she agreed, but the power differential between a prison guard and an inmate is such that it's never going to be a consensual relationship. You can't have a consensual relationship with someone who holds power over pretty much every aspect of your life.
I see your point but disagree. I don't remember the details and im too lazy to look it up. Are you suggesting that Smith couldn't say no? If anything, Smith had the control in the relagionship. She had nothing to lose. She's spending her life in prison. As opposed to the guard who had everything to lose. And eventually did.
will myself to find a home, a home within myself we will find a way, we will find our place
We (SC) didn't even give Susan Smith the death penalty for killing her own kids.
That was before I moved down here. But remember hearing about it and thinking it was odd that she didn't get the DP. Not only did she get to live, but got pregnant from a guard in prison.
One thing this state does not lack is horrendous crimes. Susan Smith may be the only rival to dylan roof when it comes to heinous acts committed in this state since slavery.
I don't remember enough about the Smith case to comment but if she got pregnant in prison and a guard was the father then that's abuse, plain and simple. There is no way to excuse the guard's behaviour.
I don't think there was any abuse going on by the guard. They had an ongoing relationship. I'm sure Smith was using the guard more than the guard was using Smith. Everything was consensual from what I remembered.
Maybe she agreed, but the power differential between a prison guard and an inmate is such that it's never going to be a consensual relationship. You can't have a consensual relationship with someone who holds power over pretty much every aspect of your life.
I see your point but disagree. I don't remember the details and im too lazy to look it up. Are you suggesting that Smith couldn't say no? If anything, Smith had the control in the relagionship. She had nothing to lose. She's spending her life in prison. As opposed to the guard who had everything to lose. And eventually did.
She had nothing to lose?
Guess you've never spent time in a prison.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
We (SC) didn't even give Susan Smith the death penalty for killing her own kids.
That was before I moved down here. But remember hearing about it and thinking it was odd that she didn't get the DP. Not only did she get to live, but got pregnant from a guard in prison.
One thing this state does not lack is horrendous crimes. Susan Smith may be the only rival to dylan roof when it comes to heinous acts committed in this state since slavery.
I don't remember enough about the Smith case to comment but if she got pregnant in prison and a guard was the father then that's abuse, plain and simple. There is no way to excuse the guard's behaviour.
I don't think there was any abuse going on by the guard. They had an ongoing relationship. I'm sure Smith was using the guard more than the guard was using Smith. Everything was consensual from what I remembered.
Maybe she agreed, but the power differential between a prison guard and an inmate is such that it's never going to be a consensual relationship. You can't have a consensual relationship with someone who holds power over pretty much every aspect of your life.
I see your point but disagree. I don't remember the details and im too lazy to look it up. Are you suggesting that Smith couldn't say no? If anything, Smith had the control in the relagionship. She had nothing to lose. She's spending her life in prison. As opposed to the guard who had everything to lose. And eventually did.
She had nothing to lose?
Guess you've never spent time in prison.
Elaborate. She loses her TV privileges? Spends a week in solitary?
will myself to find a home, a home within myself we will find a way, we will find our place
Where is your cut off as far as the power balance goes? Is a first line supervisor over a employee to big of a power difference? What about a captain in the army with a private? Any position of power over a lover is too much?
will myself to find a home, a home within myself we will find a way, we will find our place
We (SC) didn't even give Susan Smith the death penalty for killing her own kids.
That was before I moved down here. But remember hearing about it and thinking it was odd that she didn't get the DP. Not only did she get to live, but got pregnant from a guard in prison.
One thing this state does not lack is horrendous crimes. Susan Smith may be the only rival to dylan roof when it comes to heinous acts committed in this state since slavery.
I don't remember enough about the Smith case to comment but if she got pregnant in prison and a guard was the father then that's abuse, plain and simple. There is no way to excuse the guard's behaviour.
I don't think there was any abuse going on by the guard. They had an ongoing relationship. I'm sure Smith was using the guard more than the guard was using Smith. Everything was consensual from what I remembered.
Maybe she agreed, but the power differential between a prison guard and an inmate is such that it's never going to be a consensual relationship. You can't have a consensual relationship with someone who holds power over pretty much every aspect of your life.
I see your point but disagree. I don't remember the details and im too lazy to look it up. Are you suggesting that Smith couldn't say no? If anything, Smith had the control in the relagionship. She had nothing to lose. She's spending her life in prison. As opposed to the guard who had everything to lose. And eventually did.
She had nothing to lose?
Guess you've never spent time in prison.
Elaborate. She loses her TV privileges? Spends a week in solitary?
Sure, I could elaborate. I could post links about female inmates being raped, being watched showering or dressing, being denied toilet paper or sanitary products or put in solitary confinement if they refuse or attempt to report such actions on the parts of the guards. But it's a wasted exercise because to many of you guys on here these women are manipulative monsters who should have been killed anyway and are automatically at fault, so who cares what happens to them?
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
We (SC) didn't even give Susan Smith the death penalty for killing her own kids.
That was before I moved down here. But remember hearing about it and thinking it was odd that she didn't get the DP. Not only did she get to live, but got pregnant from a guard in prison.
One thing this state does not lack is horrendous crimes. Susan Smith may be the only rival to dylan roof when it comes to heinous acts committed in this state since slavery.
I don't remember enough about the Smith case to comment but if she got pregnant in prison and a guard was the father then that's abuse, plain and simple. There is no way to excuse the guard's behaviour.
I don't think there was any abuse going on by the guard. They had an ongoing relationship. I'm sure Smith was using the guard more than the guard was using Smith. Everything was consensual from what I remembered.
Maybe she agreed, but the power differential between a prison guard and an inmate is such that it's never going to be a consensual relationship. You can't have a consensual relationship with someone who holds power over pretty much every aspect of your life.
I see your point but disagree. I don't remember the details and im too lazy to look it up. Are you suggesting that Smith couldn't say no? If anything, Smith had the control in the relagionship. She had nothing to lose. She's spending her life in prison. As opposed to the guard who had everything to lose. And eventually did.
She had nothing to lose?
Guess you've never spent time in prison.
Elaborate. She loses her TV privileges? Spends a week in solitary?
Sure, I could elaborate. I could post links about female inmates being raped, being watched showering or dressing, being denied toilet paper or sanitary products or put in solitary confinement if they refuse or attempt to report such actions on the parts of the guards. But it's a wasted exercise because to many of you guys on here these women are manipulative monsters who should have been killed anyway and are automatically at fault, so who cares what happens to them?
So you're saying he likely amped up his cruelty to the point she had no point but comply with his sexual demands?
And you should probably speak to RGs point regarding the fraudulent nature of any relationship borne of a position where one had power over the other.
Nobody here is saying the guard did not abuse his position. People here are disagreeing with your suggestion that Smith was more than likely a victim of circumstances versus a consenting or even eager participant.
(And for the record... after she killed her two children... I don't care what happens to her).
Call me cold hearted but I really don't give two shits what happens to Susan Smith in prison. She killed those poor innocent boys because they were an inconvenience to her and she lied about it so people would feel sorry for her. She deserves to rot.
Also, if I recall correctly, she had sex with more than one prison guard and has also been caught with drugs. Still can't believe she got the sentence she did.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Also, if I recall correctly, she had sex with more than one prison guard and has also been caught with drugs. Still can't believe she got the sentence she did.
You're correct. She was caught twice within a 2 year period I believe. She was not a victim.
will myself to find a home, a home within myself we will find a way, we will find our place
One thing this thread has made clear, most of you have no idea what prison is actually like.
No clue.
No we do.
The country club references are to point out the fact that however difficult prison conditions might be... those conditions are far better than decomposing in the ground or staring at photos of your murdered children.
Far better.
Agreed? Thought so. So... let's not concern ourselves too much with people faring far better than their victims. I mean to boot... unlike their victims... they controlled their destiny: they never needed to be in prison- they just needed to not murder their children (or 9 people in a church).
One thing this thread has made clear, most of you have no idea what prison is actually like.
No clue.
No we do.
The country club references are to point out the fact that however difficult prison conditions might be... those conditions are far better than decomposing in the ground or staring at photos of your murdered children.
Far better.
Agreed? Thought so. So... let's not concern ourselves too much with people faring far better than their victims. I mean to boot... unlike their victims... they controlled their destiny: they never needed to be in prison- they just needed to not murder their children (or 9 people in a church).
F**k 'em.
I would argue that in many instances, especially on death row or in solitary confinement, death is the easier way out.
One thing this thread has made clear, most of you have no idea what prison is actually like.
No clue.
No we do.
The country club references are to point out the fact that however difficult prison conditions might be... those conditions are far better than decomposing in the ground or staring at photos of your murdered children.
Far better.
Agreed? Thought so. So... let's not concern ourselves too much with people faring far better than their victims. I mean to boot... unlike their victims... they controlled their destiny: they never needed to be in prison- they just needed to not murder their children (or 9 people in a church).
F**k 'em.
I would argue that in many instances, especially on death row or in solitary confinement, death is the easier way out.
One thing this thread has made clear, most of you have no idea what prison is actually like.
No clue.
No we do.
The country club references are to point out the fact that however difficult prison conditions might be... those conditions are far better than decomposing in the ground or staring at photos of your murdered children.
Far better.
Agreed? Thought so. So... let's not concern ourselves too much with people faring far better than their victims. I mean to boot... unlike their victims... they controlled their destiny: they never needed to be in prison- they just needed to not murder their children (or 9 people in a church).
F**k 'em.
Not agreed. Being dead is an end to suffering. Life in prison is a lifetime of suffering.
Do you really want Roof to be beyond the reach of pain?
I don't, put him in a Fed supermax in Colorado where he will be in solitary confinement...the worst torture that humans can survive.
Why speculate on a specific case based on your preconceived notions of abuse in womens prisons? Look up what happened. Susan Smith was not a victim.
I "speculated" because you seemed to be asking a more general question that invited speculation. Your comment "Elaborate. She loses her TV privileges? Spends a week in solitary? " sounded to me like you were opening up a larger discussion about what can happen to women in prison. It appears I was wrong, though. Oops.
And for those who say that you don't care about what happens to Smith (and presumably others like her) in prison; yes, that's abundantly clear. I think that's unfortunate, though. I think we should all be concerned about how people are treated at every stage of criminal proceedings. Those involved in the legal system, from police through to the court officers through to guards and administrators in custodial facilities through to those working in Corrections in the community all have a responsibility to treat the people they deal with fairly and with basic common decency. If we are okay with prison guards taking advantage of their positions to extort sexual or other favours, or to deal out a little extra unauthorized punishment, then we are going down a really dangerous road. And before you all get your knickers in a twist, I'm not saying that this happened in Smith's case (though I'm also not saying it didn't); I'm talking about all cases.
Some of you are going to make the usual comments about naive lefty do-gooders wanting to give out hugs and lattes to murderers. I'm not naive. Some of my work is in this field and I'm guessing I've spent more time with inmates than all of you frequent commenters put together. Yes, including murderers and sex offenders. The only way I can do my work is to believe that everybody deserves a certain basic common respect as a human being, regardless of what they've done or why. That doesn't erase what they've done, obviously. It also doesn't mean I don't take risk seriously. It just means I'm not in favour of being cavalier about how we treat anybody and ignoring abuses by those in power.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
One thing this thread has made clear, most of you have no idea what prison is actually like.
No clue.
No we do.
The country club references are to point out the fact that however difficult prison conditions might be... those conditions are far better than decomposing in the ground or staring at photos of your murdered children.
Far better.
Agreed? Thought so. So... let's not concern ourselves too much with people faring far better than their victims. I mean to boot... unlike their victims... they controlled their destiny: they never needed to be in prison- they just needed to not murder their children (or 9 people in a church).
F**k 'em.
Not agreed. Being dead is an end to suffering. Life in prison is a lifetime of suffering.
Do you really want Roof to be beyond the reach of pain?
I don't, put him in a Fed supermax in Colorado where he will be in solitary confinement...the worst torture that humans can survive.
And the survivors experience the loss of their loved ones for a lifetime as well.
You haven't thought this out very well, RG. Here's a choice for you:
1. Lose your child to a sadistic murderer.
2. Live your life in prison.
I'm assuming from your responses prior that you will select 2 because that is the easier option.
One thing this thread has made clear, most of you have no idea what prison is actually like.
No clue.
No we do.
The country club references are to point out the fact that however difficult prison conditions might be... those conditions are far better than decomposing in the ground or staring at photos of your murdered children.
Far better.
Agreed? Thought so. So... let's not concern ourselves too much with people faring far better than their victims. I mean to boot... unlike their victims... they controlled their destiny: they never needed to be in prison- they just needed to not murder their children (or 9 people in a church).
F**k 'em.
I would argue that in many instances, especially on death row or in solitary confinement, death is the easier way out.
Then why oppose the DP if it's more humane?
this has been convered before, but just to be succinct about it given the thread; prison culture can and should be changed and overhauled. locking people in cages for years and then releasing them back to society does society no favours.
Why speculate on a specific case based on your preconceived notions of abuse in womens prisons? Look up what happened. Susan Smith was not a victim.
I "speculated" because you seemed to be asking a more general question that invited speculation. Your comment "Elaborate. She loses her TV privileges? Spends a week in solitary? " sounded to me like you were opening up a larger discussion about what can happen to women in prison. It appears I was wrong, though. Oops.
And for those who say that you don't care about what happens to Smith (and presumably others like her) in prison; yes, that's abundantly clear. I think that's unfortunate, though. I think we should all be concerned about how people are treated at every stage of criminal proceedings. Those involved in the legal system, from police through to the court officers through to guards and administrators in custodial facilities through to those working in Corrections in the community all have a responsibility to treat the people they deal with fairly and with basic common decency. If we are okay with prison guards taking advantage of their positions to extort sexual or other favours, or to deal out a little extra unauthorized punishment, then we are going down a really dangerous road. And before you all get your knickers in a twist, I'm not saying that this happened in Smith's case (though I'm also not saying it didn't); I'm talking about all cases.
Some of you are going to make the usual comments about naive lefty do-gooders wanting to give out hugs and lattes to murderers. I'm not naive. Some of my work is in this field and I'm guessing I've spent more time with inmates than all of you frequent commenters put together. Yes, including murderers and sex offenders. The only way I can do my work is to believe that everybody deserves a certain basic common respect as a human being, regardless of what they've done or why. That doesn't erase what they've done, obviously. It also doesn't mean I don't take risk seriously. It just means I'm not in favour of being cavalier about how we treat anybody and ignoring abuses by those in power.
We have a defence lawyer in my city who I golfed with. Defending a horrible person (I'll keep details to a minimum)... I asked him how he managed to get clean at night. He replied, "She's not that bad. You'd be surprised." This woman is WORSE than Smith. I never played with him again. How the f**k do you get to that state of mind?
Yeah, Often, I'm never going to lose sleep over how someone might be treated in a prison when (1)... they've earned their spot their through their own actions and (2)... I spend just a fraction of a second thinking of the final terrifying moments of life for their victims.
Let's not pretend North America prisons are Russian gulags for gawds sakes. Their not Norway country clubs either, but they are far better than some here are making them out to be. Wtf do people want for shitheads like Roof? Don't execute him. Don't make his time unbearable. Don't... ?
One thing this thread has made clear, most of you have no idea what prison is actually like.
No clue.
No we do.
The country club references are to point out the fact that however difficult prison conditions might be... those conditions are far better than decomposing in the ground or staring at photos of your murdered children.
Far better.
Agreed? Thought so. So... let's not concern ourselves too much with people faring far better than their victims. I mean to boot... unlike their victims... they controlled their destiny: they never needed to be in prison- they just needed to not murder their children (or 9 people in a church).
F**k 'em.
I would argue that in many instances, especially on death row or in solitary confinement, death is the easier way out.
Then why oppose the DP if it's more humane?
this has been convered before, but just to be succinct about it given the thread; prison culture can and should be changed and overhauled. locking people in cages for years and then releasing them back to society does society no favours.
So rehabilitate Roof and reintegrate him back in society as a productive, adjusted, and happy person?
The very definition of justice! Take someone who has murdered nine people in a church... pour some resources into him... coach him up... and give him another shot!
One thing this thread has made clear, most of you have no idea what prison is actually like.
No clue.
No we do.
The country club references are to point out the fact that however difficult prison conditions might be... those conditions are far better than decomposing in the ground or staring at photos of your murdered children.
Far better.
Agreed? Thought so. So... let's not concern ourselves too much with people faring far better than their victims. I mean to boot... unlike their victims... they controlled their destiny: they never needed to be in prison- they just needed to not murder their children (or 9 people in a church).
F**k 'em.
I would argue that in many instances, especially on death row or in solitary confinement, death is the easier way out.
Then why oppose the DP if it's more humane?
this has been convered before, but just to be succinct about it given the thread; prison culture can and should be changed and overhauled. locking people in cages for years and then releasing them back to society does society no favours.
So rehabilitate Roof and reintegrate him back in society as a productive, adjusted, and happy person?
The very definition of justice! Take someone who has murdered nine people in a church... pour some resources into him... coach him up... and give him another shot!
oh boy.
no, I never said that. I was speaking in general terms. those that are a candidate for rehabilitation. Roof is not one of those.
there are some prisons where those that will eventually be let out, it is a living hell for the time they are there. obviously, those on death row and the like are not going to be rehabilitated.
we can keep talking in circles about this. but the bottom line for me is this: society has no right to decide who lives or dies. period. that is my OPINION.
Why speculate on a specific case based on your preconceived notions of abuse in womens prisons? Look up what happened. Susan Smith was not a victim.
I "speculated" because you seemed to be asking a more general question that invited speculation. Your comment "Elaborate. She loses her TV privileges? Spends a week in solitary? " sounded to me like you were opening up a larger discussion about what can happen to women in prison. It appears I was wrong, though. Oops.
And for those who say that you don't care about what happens to Smith (and presumably others like her) in prison; yes, that's abundantly clear. I think that's unfortunate, though. I think we should all be concerned about how people are treated at every stage of criminal proceedings. Those involved in the legal system, from police through to the court officers through to guards and administrators in custodial facilities through to those working in Corrections in the community all have a responsibility to treat the people they deal with fairly and with basic common decency. If we are okay with prison guards taking advantage of their positions to extort sexual or other favours, or to deal out a little extra unauthorized punishment, then we are going down a really dangerous road. And before you all get your knickers in a twist, I'm not saying that this happened in Smith's case (though I'm also not saying it didn't); I'm talking about all cases.
Some of you are going to make the usual comments about naive lefty do-gooders wanting to give out hugs and lattes to murderers. I'm not naive. Some of my work is in this field and I'm guessing I've spent more time with inmates than all of you frequent commenters put together. Yes, including murderers and sex offenders. The only way I can do my work is to believe that everybody deserves a certain basic common respect as a human being, regardless of what they've done or why. That doesn't erase what they've done, obviously. It also doesn't mean I don't take risk seriously. It just means I'm not in favour of being cavalier about how we treat anybody and ignoring abuses by those in power.
We have a defence lawyer in my city who I golfed with. Defending a horrible person (I'll keep details to a minimum)... I asked him how he managed to get clean at night. He replied, "She's not that bad. You'd be surprised." This woman is WORSE than Smith. I never played with him again. How the f**k do you get to that state of mind?
Yeah, Often, I'm never going to lose sleep over how someone might be treated in a prison when (1)... they've earned their spot their through their own actions and (2)... I spend just a fraction of a second thinking of the final terrifying moments of life for their victims.
Let's not pretend North America prisons are Russian gulags for gawds sakes. Their not Norway country clubs either, but they are far better than some here are making them out to be. Wtf do people want for shitheads like Roof? Don't execute him. Don't make his time unbearable. Don't... ?
The accused getting a competent defence is one of the cornerstones of our society. Without it, we have kangaroo courts, because the state is always going to be well represented. Your former friend the defence attorney understands that. I suspect you don't really want to live in what ensues once we start removing those sorts of protections, despite what you may think.
And you're fine with female (and presumably male) murderers being raped and otherwise abused in prison. In your words, they earned their spot in prison. What about al the others in prison? What is your threshold for heinousness that deserves sexual assault? Does armed robbery make the cut? Assault with a weapon? Simple assault? What about drug offenders? They all earned their spot in prison, and are all subject to the same conditions and the same prison staff. If you're not okay with someone in on drug charges getting raped, how do you possibly monitor that? Do you trust those guards to make the "right" choice of who to abuse?
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
One thing this thread has made clear, most of you have no idea what prison is actually like.
No clue.
No we do.
The country club references are to point out the fact that however difficult prison conditions might be... those conditions are far better than decomposing in the ground or staring at photos of your murdered children.
Far better.
Agreed? Thought so. So... let's not concern ourselves too much with people faring far better than their victims. I mean to boot... unlike their victims... they controlled their destiny: they never needed to be in prison- they just needed to not murder their children (or 9 people in a church).
F**k 'em.
I would argue that in many instances, especially on death row or in solitary confinement, death is the easier way out.
Then why oppose the DP if it's more humane?
this has been convered before, but just to be succinct about it given the thread; prison culture can and should be changed and overhauled. locking people in cages for years and then releasing them back to society does society no favours.
So rehabilitate Roof and reintegrate him back in society as a productive, adjusted, and happy person?
The very definition of justice! Take someone who has murdered nine people in a church... pour some resources into him... coach him up... and give him another shot!
oh boy.
no, I never said that. I was speaking in general terms. those that are a candidate for rehabilitation. Roof is not one of those.
there are some prisons where those that will eventually be let out, it is a living hell for the time they are there. obviously, those on death row and the like are not going to be rehabilitated.
we can keep talking in circles about this. but the bottom line for me is this: society has no right to decide who lives or dies. period. that is my OPINION.
Your opinion regarding the DP is respected. You haven't come about it lightly. Mine is different, obviously.
I agree that we need to do a better job rehabilitating petty criminals to some degree. A common thief or drug user does not need to share the same space or conditions as a violent criminal. I would also say there are varying degrees of violence: a murderer who murders someone in a drug deal is far different than a person such as Roof. I could get behind supporting the druggie to a greater extent in the hopes of a successful rehabilitation.
Child murderers and mass murderers such as Roof are in a league all their own.
Comments
Either way... who cares? She's hardly a victim. Hearing of her humping in prison is very distasteful news.
I agreed with you that the guard was completely out of line, but I'd be reaching if I agreed that Smith was placed in a position where she was manipulated by circumstances into compliance.
we will find a way, we will find our place
Guess you've never spent time in a prison.
we will find a way, we will find our place
we will find a way, we will find our place
And you should probably speak to RGs point regarding the fraudulent nature of any relationship borne of a position where one had power over the other.
Nobody here is saying the guard did not abuse his position. People here are disagreeing with your suggestion that Smith was more than likely a victim of circumstances versus a consenting or even eager participant.
(And for the record... after she killed her two children... I don't care what happens to her).
we will find a way, we will find our place
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
we will find a way, we will find our place
No clue.
www.headstonesband.com
The country club references are to point out the fact that however difficult prison conditions might be... those conditions are far better than decomposing in the ground or staring at photos of your murdered children.
Far better.
Agreed? Thought so. So... let's not concern ourselves too much with people faring far better than their victims. I mean to boot... unlike their victims... they controlled their destiny: they never needed to be in prison- they just needed to not murder their children (or 9 people in a church).
F**k 'em.
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Being dead is an end to suffering. Life in prison is a lifetime of suffering.
Do you really want Roof to be beyond the reach of pain?
I don't, put him in a Fed supermax in Colorado where he will be in solitary confinement...the worst torture that humans can survive.
And for those who say that you don't care about what happens to Smith (and presumably others like her) in prison; yes, that's abundantly clear. I think that's unfortunate, though. I think we should all be concerned about how people are treated at every stage of criminal proceedings. Those involved in the legal system, from police through to the court officers through to guards and administrators in custodial facilities through to those working in Corrections in the community all have a responsibility to treat the people they deal with fairly and with basic common decency. If we are okay with prison guards taking advantage of their positions to extort sexual or other favours, or to deal out a little extra unauthorized punishment, then we are going down a really dangerous road. And before you all get your knickers in a twist, I'm not saying that this happened in Smith's case (though I'm also not saying it didn't); I'm talking about all cases.
Some of you are going to make the usual comments about naive lefty do-gooders wanting to give out hugs and lattes to murderers. I'm not naive. Some of my work is in this field and I'm guessing I've spent more time with inmates than all of you frequent commenters put together. Yes, including murderers and sex offenders. The only way I can do my work is to believe that everybody deserves a certain basic common respect as a human being, regardless of what they've done or why. That doesn't erase what they've done, obviously. It also doesn't mean I don't take risk seriously. It just means I'm not in favour of being cavalier about how we treat anybody and ignoring abuses by those in power.
You haven't thought this out very well, RG. Here's a choice for you:
1. Lose your child to a sadistic murderer.
2. Live your life in prison.
I'm assuming from your responses prior that you will select 2 because that is the easier option.
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Yeah, Often, I'm never going to lose sleep over how someone might be treated in a prison when (1)... they've earned their spot their through their own actions and (2)... I spend just a fraction of a second thinking of the final terrifying moments of life for their victims.
Let's not pretend North America prisons are Russian gulags for gawds sakes. Their not Norway country clubs either, but they are far better than some here are making them out to be. Wtf do people want for shitheads like Roof? Don't execute him. Don't make his time unbearable. Don't... ?
The very definition of justice! Take someone who has murdered nine people in a church... pour some resources into him... coach him up... and give him another shot!
no, I never said that. I was speaking in general terms. those that are a candidate for rehabilitation. Roof is not one of those.
there are some prisons where those that will eventually be let out, it is a living hell for the time they are there. obviously, those on death row and the like are not going to be rehabilitated.
we can keep talking in circles about this. but the bottom line for me is this: society has no right to decide who lives or dies. period. that is my OPINION.
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And you're fine with female (and presumably male) murderers being raped and otherwise abused in prison. In your words, they earned their spot in prison. What about al the others in prison? What is your threshold for heinousness that deserves sexual assault? Does armed robbery make the cut? Assault with a weapon? Simple assault? What about drug offenders? They all earned their spot in prison, and are all subject to the same conditions and the same prison staff. If you're not okay with someone in on drug charges getting raped, how do you possibly monitor that? Do you trust those guards to make the "right" choice of who to abuse?
I agree that we need to do a better job rehabilitating petty criminals to some degree. A common thief or drug user does not need to share the same space or conditions as a violent criminal. I would also say there are varying degrees of violence: a murderer who murders someone in a drug deal is far different than a person such as Roof. I could get behind supporting the druggie to a greater extent in the hopes of a successful rehabilitation.
Child murderers and mass murderers such as Roof are in a league all their own.