It's funny to see what different conclusions Brain and Ryan draw from watching the very same program...
I think we saw the same thing.Brians eyes and ears are just much older then mine and he may have misinterpreted the data.lol
Hey young man, watch what you're... ahh, shit, what are we... hold on... damn, where's my coffee...
Please turn up your hearing aid and put your teeth in when talking to me old timer.:)))
As of this point in my life I am happy to report that all my parts are real other than two patches of plastic used in two inguinal hernia repairs. And that, now that I think of it, probably means that I am part middle eastern. Whoa! But don't worry, I am NOT a terrorist!
Ehh,I got a lil hernia cooking just above navel.Very small,only shows or can feel it when doing decline slant board ab excercises or the like.Kinda a pain,thought about getting it put back together but was told if it dosent get bigger or noticeable then I should leave it.Getting old sucks.I can't read anymore without readers,damnit!
Getting old has its downsides but it beats the alternative.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
It's funny to see what different conclusions Brain and Ryan draw from watching the very same program...
I think we saw the same thing.Brians eyes and ears are just much older then mine and he may have misinterpreted the data.lol
Hey young man, watch what you're... ahh, shit, what are we... hold on... damn, where's my coffee...
Please turn up your hearing aid and put your teeth in when talking to me old timer.:)))
As of this point in my life I am happy to report that all my parts are real other than two patches of plastic used in two inguinal hernia repairs. And that, now that I think of it, probably means that I am part middle eastern. Whoa! But don't worry, I am NOT a terrorist!
Ehh,I got a lil hernia cooking just above navel.Very small,only shows or can feel it when doing decline slant board ab excercises or the like.Kinda a pain,thought about getting it put back together but was told if it dosent get bigger or noticeable then I should leave it.Getting old sucks.I can't read anymore without readepainful i!
Ha-ha!
I just got my champeen reading glasses. I sit on the couch in the evening with my tablet and a baseball game going. Glasses halfway down my nose- peering out the top to see the TV... and looking down my nose through the lenses to read crap.
It's a dorky, old man look for sure... really sexy I bet. Especially with my old basketball shorts and scrubby old concert tees.
All kidding aside, I can't stand trying to read crap without them. It's too challenging. I don't know how I managed prior to getting them.
Saw the 60 Minutes episode called "Recruiting For ISIS" last night. The obvious point to me was that ISIS exists because we have meddled in others affairs and have prompted or at least accelerated the extremism. Further meddling will equal greater extremism. Why is this hard to see? And because ISIS members are spreading out world wide, do those who want to bomb them out of existence support the notion of bombing every major city in the world like London* in order to make sure we get every last damn one of them? Or is there maybe a better, more wise solution to the problem... like stop meddling!
No, we need to get out of there and get out now once and for good.
*The episode on 60 Min. also pointed out that the vast majority of Muslims in London were against the extremism and the ISIS recruiting. If we stop being so hateful toward people with faiths that differ from our own (including those who are atheists) who are doing no harm, the extremism is much more likely to diminish.
Most substances can be pushed to a certain point, and will have a tendency to return to the way they were before (they are elastic within this region). When materials are pushed beyond this point, they are within the plastic region, and while they might have some tendency to return to the way they were before, they might be irreparably changed.
I see humans as the same, and while I feel that our intervention has by-and-large been a negative presence, I do think we have to consider what irreparable damages we've done. How have we changed the scenario? What complexities have we introduced? If things were 'good', then we intervened for over 150 years, then we stop flexing our muscles and stop pushing - where are does the Middle East return to? Are we still within the elastic region, where we can say that the Middle East will return to 'good'? If we've passed this critical point, are things so plastic now that we can retreat and things just won't revert? I feel that it requires a major leap of faith to say that normalcy will return in time with either of our complete retreat, or our full-blown intervention.
No place returns to where it was before, so we can let that go. But what makes the answer to that question any of our business? Why should we think we need to be the driving influence on what happens there? And if it's fair to assume we can be, what if the reverse were true? Would you agree to that? I very much doubt it.
And what on earth is with the "flexing our muscles" all about? Why do we feel the need to do that?
Brian, I know no place is 'perfectly elastic', and that some change is almost certain. What makes the answer to that question any of our business? The fact that a full retreat is an action in itself. We must DO something now - whether it means leave, provide some support, or provide much support - there is weight to 'the same', 'more of the same', and 'none of this anymore'. All I'm suggesting is that we consider the ramifications of each. Place ourselves at 'Now' and in the distance, put 'Stability' on a mind map, and say, what steps bring us there? Right now, the argument for retreat seems to be: 'Now' -> 'Retreat' -> 'Stability'. This is just not detailed enough for me.
I look at Vietnam, and see how the US sprayed chemicals to facilitate a wrongful war, then left having essentially hit a 'Reset' button on the progress of the entire country (agricultural and otherwise). What's more, the rehabilitation support for Agent Orange victims from the US came decades later (and was still quite limited if I recall). I don't believe the alternative (maintained presence) would have been better, but I do believe that a country is owed the due diligence of attempting to measure the weight of America's presence against the weight of America's complete retreat. Which means contemplating the outcome of all scenarios.
Do I believe it's terrible to have America in the Middle East? Yes - I fucking hate the mess that's been created, and I believe in a parallel mind map to the 'Stability' one that has "End of America's meddling" as the goal. That said, having read everything here, and knowing what little I know (and believe me, it's very little on this topic), what do we know to truly and rationally justify the logic that a full retreat will bring a long-needed and long-lasting calm over the region? This is an honest question. And if the answer is just 'the odds are better because history shows the opposite does not work' - I honestly think we all need to probe a little deeper.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Where do countries sit with regards to their citizens leaving to go join ISIS and then seeking reentry once they've done so? Have their been any cases with this scenario?
Where do countries sit with regards to their citizens leaving to go join ISIS and then seeking reentry once they've done so? Have their been any cases with this scenario?
Where do countries sit with regards to their citizens leaving to go join ISIS and then seeking reentry once they've done so? Have their been any cases with this scenario?
This piece speaks mostly to ISIS threatening death to any recruit wishing to abdicate their chosen direction.
I am curious to know where countries rest with allowing their citizens to leave the country as war voyeurs only to return after they have had their experience (I use the term 'war' for lack of better word- I view ISIS actions as something different than 'war').
Apparently without a Status of Forces Agreement either? How is this even possible?
Don't worry, Canadian troops will be back to confidently fetching your coffees, after our recent election.
I had an interesting discussion with my two younger siblings a couple weeks ago, wherein they both said Canadian forces had no business being involved, as this was essentially (in their minds) America's mess, so it's up to America to clean it up. My reply was two-fold, first, we're on ISIL's hit list, and have been from the start. Second, it's our duty as responsible global citizens to see this group controlled, based on the atrocities they commit, as well as their wanton destruction of sites important to the history of the human race. These guys, if allowed to attain nation-state status, will likely go down as the new Nazis, at least that's my perspective from comfortable Fortress North America. And, apparently I'm a war-monger for thinking these things.
"The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
Apparently without a Status of Forces Agreement either? How is this even possible?
Don't worry, Canadian troops will be back to confidently fetching your coffees, after our recent election.
I had an interesting discussion with my two younger siblings a couple weeks ago, wherein they both said Canadian forces had no business being involved, as this was essentially (in their minds) America's mess, so it's up to America to clean it up. My reply was two-fold, first, we're on ISIL's hit list, and have been from the start. Second, it's our duty as responsible global citizens to see this group controlled, based on the atrocities they commit, as well as their wanton destruction of sites important to the history of the human race. These guys, if allowed to attain nation-state status, will likely go down as the new Nazis, at least that's my perspective from comfortable Fortress North America. And, apparently I'm a war-monger for thinking these things.
Hey, easy now Trudeau is actively seeking the root cause of your problems. Standby, answers are coming swiftly might I add, they are liberal
Apparently without a Status of Forces Agreement either? How is this even possible?
Don't worry, Canadian troops will be back to confidently fetching your coffees, after our recent election.
I had an interesting discussion with my two younger siblings a couple weeks ago, wherein they both said Canadian forces had no business being involved, as this was essentially (in their minds) America's mess, so it's up to America to clean it up. My reply was two-fold, first, we're on ISIL's hit list, and have been from the start. Second, it's our duty as responsible global citizens to see this group controlled, based on the atrocities they commit, as well as their wanton destruction of sites important to the history of the human race. These guys, if allowed to attain nation-state status, will likely go down as the new Nazis, at least that's my perspective from comfortable Fortress North America. And, apparently I'm a war-monger for thinking these things.
Hey, easy now Trudeau is actively seeking the root cause of your problems. Standby, answers are coming swiftly might I add, they are liberal
Lol, sorry, I haven't drank any of the Liberal kool-aid that's being freely circulated these days, so I don't see the man as Canada's Obama (how much really changed with his election, lol?).
I guess we do know there'll be an influx of poorly-screened refugees, and air-drops of winter jackets for those in the region hiding out from ISIL though. We'll watch the reports on television through a haze of pot smoke though, lol.
"The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
Apparently without a Status of Forces Agreement either? How is this even possible?
Don't worry, Canadian troops will be back to confidently fetching your coffees, after our recent election.
I had an interesting discussion with my two younger siblings a couple weeks ago, wherein they both said Canadian forces had no business being involved, as this was essentially (in their minds) America's mess, so it's up to America to clean it up. My reply was two-fold, first, we're on ISIL's hit list, and have been from the start. Second, it's our duty as responsible global citizens to see this group controlled, based on the atrocities they commit, as well as their wanton destruction of sites important to the history of the human race. These guys, if allowed to attain nation-state status, will likely go down as the new Nazis, at least that's my perspective from comfortable Fortress North America. And, apparently I'm a war-monger for thinking these things.
Hey, easy now Trudeau is actively seeking the root cause of your problems. Standby, answers are coming swiftly might I add, they are liberal
Lol, sorry, I haven't drank any of the Liberal kool-aid that's being freely circulated these days, so I don't see the man as Canada's Obama (how much really changed with his election, lol?).
I guess we do know there'll be an influx of poorly-screened refugees, and air-drops of winter jackets for those in the region hiding out from ISIL though. We'll watch the reports on television through a haze of pot smoke though, lol.
Lots changed since Obama's election. Know that wonderful healthcare you enjoy?
Apparently without a Status of Forces Agreement either? How is this even possible?
Don't worry, Canadian troops will be back to confidently fetching your coffees, after our recent election.
I had an interesting discussion with my two younger siblings a couple weeks ago, wherein they both said Canadian forces had no business being involved, as this was essentially (in their minds) America's mess, so it's up to America to clean it up. My reply was two-fold, first, we're on ISIL's hit list, and have been from the start. Second, it's our duty as responsible global citizens to see this group controlled, based on the atrocities they commit, as well as their wanton destruction of sites important to the history of the human race. These guys, if allowed to attain nation-state status, will likely go down as the new Nazis, at least that's my perspective from comfortable Fortress North America. And, apparently I'm a war-monger for thinking these things.
I do tend towards conservatism, although in this last election, had I been forced to choose between the Liberals and NDP, I actually would have chosen the NDP, who are traditionally to the left of the Liberals.
That said, I feel I have to apologize for my somewhat snarky remarks from yesterday. I think I need to refrain from commenting for a bit, until I'm more than just a couple days into quitting cigarettes. I'm not sure my brain is functioning properly at the moment, if that makes any sense, lol.
"The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
Shhhh....can you hear it? That's what the lack of outrage on the return of ground forces sounds like.
Interesting question, BS. Perhaps the sound is muffled by the droning, monotonous drumming of endless war that often stupefies and numbs the mind the way a recurring nightmare causes one to feel ill at ease.
One thing for sure, we're not hearing a lot of cheering and roaring in the stands.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Shhhh....can you hear it? That's what the lack of outrage on the return of ground forces sounds like.
Well, I know I exclaimed, "What the FUCK!?" and shook my head in disdain when I heard the news. I really don't have more to say about it. Am I surprised? No. Will it just be more of the same senseless bullshit that America has been dicking around with basically since the Korean War? Probably.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Aren't we just sending 50 Special Ops troops to train and support the Syrian rebels?
Did I miss something else?
I just assume that is simply the beginning.
Yeah, that's pretty much how it always starts.
I think we need to make some noise just to make sure BS is awake, LOL.
Ha. Wide awake. Wide awake to the fact how the AMT tends to let Obama off the hook for his military escapades.
Edit: See how Gimme is advocating for me to send my Kid but not for the President to send Sasha or Malia.
when have i ever let obama off the hook for his military escapades?
i have bashed him at every turn on all of the following: use of drones escalating military force in africa and the middle east not closing gitmo blanket support for israel, which is in all actuality destabilizing the region
you did not want our troops out of iraq. you said they should stay there. you tried to say that pulling out is obama's folly when it was george fucking bush who signed the status of forces agreement that tied obama's hands. you seem to relish in the fact that obama is putting boots back on the ground.
malia and sasha are not your average, run of the mill, no-other-option-having-type of american that happens to find themselves in the military instead of the ivy league. you are out of your mind to think that there is even a remote possibility of the obama children going to a war zone. so since you want boots on the ground so bad, send your kid. i might even send them a care package.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
Comments
I just got my champeen reading glasses. I sit on the couch in the evening with my tablet and a baseball game going. Glasses halfway down my nose- peering out the top to see the TV... and looking down my nose through the lenses to read crap.
It's a dorky, old man look for sure... really sexy I bet. Especially with my old basketball shorts and scrubby old concert tees.
All kidding aside, I can't stand trying to read crap without them. It's too challenging. I don't know how I managed prior to getting them.
'Now' -> 'Retreat' -> 'Stability'. This is just not detailed enough for me.
I look at Vietnam, and see how the US sprayed chemicals to facilitate a wrongful war, then left having essentially hit a 'Reset' button on the progress of the entire country (agricultural and otherwise). What's more, the rehabilitation support for Agent Orange victims from the US came decades later (and was still quite limited if I recall). I don't believe the alternative (maintained presence) would have been better, but I do believe that a country is owed the due diligence of attempting to measure the weight of America's presence against the weight of America's complete retreat. Which means contemplating the outcome of all scenarios.
Do I believe it's terrible to have America in the Middle East? Yes - I fucking hate the mess that's been created, and I believe in a parallel mind map to the 'Stability' one that has "End of America's meddling" as the goal. That said, having read everything here, and knowing what little I know (and believe me, it's very little on this topic), what do we know to truly and rationally justify the logic that a full retreat will bring a long-needed and long-lasting calm over the region? This is an honest question. And if the answer is just 'the odds are better because history shows the opposite does not work' - I honestly think we all need to probe a little deeper.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
I am curious to know where countries rest with allowing their citizens to leave the country as war voyeurs only to return after they have had their experience (I use the term 'war' for lack of better word- I view ISIS actions as something different than 'war').
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/sec-carter-direct-u-s-action-ground-iraq-syria-n452131
Apparently without a Status of Forces Agreement either? How is this even possible?
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
I had an interesting discussion with my two younger siblings a couple weeks ago, wherein they both said Canadian forces had no business being involved, as this was essentially (in their minds) America's mess, so it's up to America to clean it up. My reply was two-fold, first, we're on ISIL's hit list, and have been from the start. Second, it's our duty as responsible global citizens to see this group controlled, based on the atrocities they commit, as well as their wanton destruction of sites important to the history of the human race. These guys, if allowed to attain nation-state status, will likely go down as the new Nazis, at least that's my perspective from comfortable Fortress North America. And, apparently I'm a war-monger for thinking these things.
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
easy now
Trudeau is actively seeking the root cause of your problems.
Standby,
answers are coming
swiftly might I add, they are liberal
I guess we do know there'll be an influx of poorly-screened refugees, and air-drops of winter jackets for those in the region hiding out from ISIL though. We'll watch the reports on television through a haze of pot smoke though, lol.
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
That said, I feel I have to apologize for my somewhat snarky remarks from yesterday. I think I need to refrain from commenting for a bit, until I'm more than just a couple days into quitting cigarettes. I'm not sure my brain is functioning properly at the moment, if that makes any sense, lol.
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
One thing for sure, we're not hearing a lot of cheering and roaring in the stands.
Did I miss something else?
if you are unwilling to send your kid, then don't cheerlead for others to go.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
I think we need to make some noise just to make sure BS is awake, LOL.
Edit: See how Gimme is advocating for me to send my Kid but not for the President to send Sasha or Malia.
i have bashed him at every turn on all of the following:
use of drones
escalating military force in africa and the middle east
not closing gitmo
blanket support for israel, which is in all actuality destabilizing the region
you did not want our troops out of iraq. you said they should stay there. you tried to say that pulling out is obama's folly when it was george fucking bush who signed the status of forces agreement that tied obama's hands. you seem to relish in the fact that obama is putting boots back on the ground.
malia and sasha are not your average, run of the mill, no-other-option-having-type of american that happens to find themselves in the military instead of the ivy league. you are out of your mind to think that there is even a remote possibility of the obama children going to a war zone. so since you want boots on the ground so bad, send your kid. i might even send them a care package.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
some people on here obviously know me better than others.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/amnesty-most-weapons-used-by-is-were-seized-from-iraqi-army/2015/12/07/a132afb2-9d40-11e5-9ad2-568d814bbf3b_story.html
As predicted by pretty much everyone.