96 Randall's Island II
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,945
President Barack Obama on Wednesday ordered the deployment of 450 more U.S. troops to Iraq's Sunni heartland to advise and assist fragile Iraqi forces being built up to try to retake territory lost to Islamic State.
The plan to expand the 3,100-strong U.S. contingent in Iraq and open a new operations center closer to the fighting in Anbar province marks an adjustment in strategy for Obama, who has faced mounting pressure to do more to blunt the momentum of the insurgents.
But with Obama sticking to his refusal to send troops into combat or to the front lines, the White House announcement failed to silence critics who say the limited U.S. military role in the conflict is not enough to turn the tide of battle.
U.S. officials hope that a strengthened American presence on the ground in Anbar will help the Iraqi military devise and carry out a counter-attack to retake the provincial capital Ramadi, which insurgents seized last month in an onslaught that further exposed the shortcomings of the Iraqi army.
The U.S. advisers, who will be injected into the heart of one of the most hotly contested areas of the Islamic State campaign, will offer tactical advice to Iraqi officers on how to conduct their operations, the Pentagon said.
A complex challenge for the U.S. troops, who will establish a training hub at the Taqaddum military base only about 15 miles (25 km) from Ramadi, will be their outreach to Sunni tribal fighters, many of whom do not trust the Shi'ite-led government in Baghdad.
U.S. officials want to integrate them into the Iraqi army and reduce its reliance on Iran-backed Shi'ite militias who have also joined the fight against Islamic State.
Obama decided on the new troop deployment in response to a request from Iraqi Prime Minister Haidar al-Abadi, the White House said. The two leaders met while attending the G7 summit in Germany earlier this week.
"To improve the capabilities and effectiveness of partners on the ground, the president authorized the deployment of up to 450 additional U.S. military personnel to train, advise and assist Iraqi Security Forces," the White House said in a statement. ...
President Barack Obama on Wednesday ordered the deployment of 450 more U.S. troops to Iraq's Sunni heartland to advise and assist fragile Iraqi forces being built up to try to retake territory lost to Islamic State.
The plan to expand the 3,100-strong U.S. contingent in Iraq and open a new operations center closer to the fighting in Anbar province marks an adjustment in strategy for Obama, who has faced mounting pressure to do more to blunt the momentum of the insurgents.
But with Obama sticking to his refusal to send troops into combat or to the front lines, the White House announcement failed to silence critics who say the limited U.S. military role in the conflict is not enough to turn the tide of battle.
U.S. officials hope that a strengthened American presence on the ground in Anbar will help the Iraqi military devise and carry out a counter-attack to retake the provincial capital Ramadi, which insurgents seized last month in an onslaught that further exposed the shortcomings of the Iraqi army.
The U.S. advisers, who will be injected into the heart of one of the most hotly contested areas of the Islamic State campaign, will offer tactical advice to Iraqi officers on how to conduct their operations, the Pentagon said.
A complex challenge for the U.S. troops, who will establish a training hub at the Taqaddum military base only about 15 miles (25 km) from Ramadi, will be their outreach to Sunni tribal fighters, many of whom do not trust the Shi'ite-led government in Baghdad.
U.S. officials want to integrate them into the Iraqi army and reduce its reliance on Iran-backed Shi'ite militias who have also joined the fight against Islamic State.
Obama decided on the new troop deployment in response to a request from Iraqi Prime Minister Haidar al-Abadi, the White House said. The two leaders met while attending the G7 summit in Germany earlier this week.
"To improve the capabilities and effectiveness of partners on the ground, the president authorized the deployment of up to 450 additional U.S. military personnel to train, advise and assist Iraqi Security Forces," the White House said in a statement. ...
Thanks. I forgot to add a link to the story.
96 Randall's Island II
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
so, knowing what we know now, is it a good decision or a bad decision to put people back in there?
Bad Decision. This is too little too late. Go all in or don't go at all. This is just 450 troops to appease the press after Obama's "lack of complete strategy" talk this week. This is still not a strategy. It is just window dressing.
so, knowing what we know now, is it a good decision or a bad decision to put people back in there?
Bad Decision. This is too little too late. Go all in or don't go at all. This is just 450 troops to appease the press after Obama's "lack of complete strategy" talk this week. This is still not a strategy. It is just window dressing.
All in? 5000 US troops killed. 200000 injured. Another trillion dollars pissed away while neglecting Us infrastructure. Then in 5 years we are back to present day conditions.
Hear there's an opening for a mercenary fighting with the curds. Sure we could crowd fund to help you with air fare.
so, knowing what we know now, is it a good decision or a bad decision to put people back in there?
Bad decision. We never should have been there in the first place.
This is what I argued in 2003, but we went anyway. (I know you did too, Gimme.) Today I feel like the damage is done, the ink is out of the bottle, etc. I don't know what "good decisions" there are to make in the Middle East anymore. I really don't. Every decision feels wrong. Whether we go back in or we don't go back in, everything seems lose-lose. There are consequences to making the worst foreign policy blunder in a generation and we are feeling them today. Nothing will undo Bush's mistake, but the mistake is made. It's easy to point fingers at Obama and criticize this move or that move, and it will be easy to criticize whoever wins in 2016. The fact is there are no easy answers to the situation there.
Think the solution is for the humans in Middle East to handle their part of the world. Our meddling won't permanently do anything. Iraqi's need to feel the pressure. Though Obama can work on his message, keeping American troops out of battle is a good strategy.
so, knowing what we know now, is it a good decision or a bad decision to put people back in there?
Bad Decision. This is too little too late. Go all in or don't go at all. This is just 450 troops to appease the press after Obama's "lack of complete strategy" talk this week. This is still not a strategy. It is just window dressing.
All in? 5000 US troops killed. 200000 injured. Another trillion dollars pissed away while neglecting Us infrastructure. Then in 5 years we are back to present day conditions.
Hear there's an opening for a mercenary fighting with the curds. Sure we could crowd fund to help you with air fare.
Sheese.
Did you spell it "curds" on purpose just to insult my canadianess and love for poutine?
But yes..."all in" vs nothing. I know you prefer nothing. This 450 advisers is a complete waste of time.
so, knowing what we know now, is it a good decision or a bad decision to put people back in there?
Bad Decision. This is too little too late. Go all in or don't go at all. This is just 450 troops to appease the press after Obama's "lack of complete strategy" talk this week. This is still not a strategy. It is just window dressing.
All in? 5000 US troops killed. 200000 injured. Another trillion dollars pissed away while neglecting Us infrastructure. Then in 5 years we are back to present day conditions.
Hear there's an opening for a mercenary fighting with the curds. Sure we could crowd fund to help you with air fare.
Sheese.
Did you spell it "curds" on purpose just to insult my canadianess and love for poutine?
But yes..."all in" vs nothing. I know you prefer nothing. This 450 advisers is a complete waste of time.
So the "all" isn't a solution.
Not with my money and not with my countries soldiers.
BS. you prefer nothing to what we're doing now? Serious question.
I equate what we're doing now with nothing. What we are doing now gives off the appearance of action for the purpose of keeping domestic critics at bay.
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,357
Who the fuck are you talking about with this "we" bullshit?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Who the fuck are you talking about with this "we" bullshit?
In case you were unaware, Canadian soldiers are on the ground as advisors as well (and we suffered a friendly fire fatality as a result), and Canadian airmen are participating in strikes against IS, hence the "we". So, to use a term thrown out earlier (in a somewhat different context), Canada, as a nation, does in fact have skin in the game this time around.
As far as the question at hand, I see the current situation as the inevitable development of having an artificial deadline placed on what was essentially a war. The enemy knew they only had to hide in the sand until the "coalition of the willing" pulled out their troops.
I was (and am) proud that Canada stood aside in 2003, but am equally pleased to see our troops involved in the current actions. In part I see it as being more proactive before IS gets the means to do something similar to 9/11. Unfortunately we're talking about a group that doesn't accept our way of life on principle and will always work to take us down.
Here in Canada we've been lucky thus far to have prevented many (unfortunately not all though) of the attacks aimed at us, in part because we're aware we're on both AQ and IS's hit lists.
"The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,357
Who the fuck are you talking about with this "we" bullshit?
In case you were unaware, Canadian soldiers are on the ground as advisors as well (and we suffered a friendly fire fatality as a result), and Canadian airmen are participating in strikes against IS, hence the "we". So, to use a term thrown out earlier (in a somewhat different context), Canada, as a nation, does in fact have skin in the game this time around.
As far as the question at hand, I see the current situation as the inevitable development of having an artificial deadline placed on what was essentially a war. The enemy knew they only had to hide in the sand until the "coalition of the willing" pulled out their troops.
I was (and am) proud that Canada stood aside in 2003, but am equally pleased to see our troops involved in the current actions. In part I see it as being more proactive before IS gets the means to do something similar to 9/11. Unfortunately we're talking about a group that doesn't accept our way of life on principle and will always work to take us down.
Here in Canada we've been lucky thus far to have prevented many (unfortunately not all though) of the attacks aimed at us, in part because we're aware we're on both AQ and IS's hit lists.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Sorry, thousand what? I'm assuming (dangerous, I know, lol) you mean soldier deaths in Iraq? To my knowledge 1 so far, in addition to the 150 or so lost in Afghanistan. Not entirely sure what your point is with that though, sorry.
Edit: We lost 158 in Afghanistan, without counting the suicides when the soldiers returned home.
Post edited by DarthMaeglin on
"The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,357
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Thanks for clarifying. I believe we have hundreds of troops involved, between the advisors on the ground, pilots and ground crews. Not to mention our naval forces in the area as well. Likely (I'll admit I'm guessing) we're close to proportional when we compare our respective populations (yours is roughly 10 times ours).
And to clarify my own position, I've never agreed with war from the air as the only solution. Boots on the ground is what will make an actual difference, both in terms of combat and hearts and minds. Further, I believe that any war should be planned with the expectation of leaving a long-term presence on the ground, a la post-WWII Germany and Japan. I also think we left Afghanistan too early, before the work was complete.
"The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,945
Ever wonder why they call it "endless war"? What has that accomplished? Why is our first reaction to any situation war? Why do we in the west always see it as our responsibility to meddle? Why do we never seem to take responsibility for creating this mess?
I know... question, questions.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,357
edited June 2015
Boots on the ground should never be used again. By anyone. Kinda shits on the men and women wearing them to reduce them to that term. They are in fact ground troops.
Canada should have stayed as right as they were in 03.
I saw an article from the Toronto paper that said there were 69 special forces in country. Thats it. Helping the Kurds.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Boots on the ground should never be used again. By anyone. Kinda shits on the men and women wearing them to reduce them to that term. They are in fact ground troops.
Canada should have stayed as right as they were in 03.
Clearly we differ, and I'm sorry for using an expression that I didn't realize was offensive (since I've heard/read soldiers use that exact term themselves).
Thank heavens the world's big enough for opposite points of view and rational discourse (at least in our "enlightened" society, lol).
"The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
Who the fuck are you talking about with this "we" bullshit?
In case you were unaware, Canadian soldiers are on the ground as advisors as well (and we suffered a friendly fire fatality as a result), and Canadian airmen are participating in strikes against IS, hence the "we". So, to use a term thrown out earlier (in a somewhat different context), Canada, as a nation, does in fact have skin in the game this time around.
As far as the question at hand, I see the current situation as the inevitable development of having an artificial deadline placed on what was essentially a war. The enemy knew they only had to hide in the sand until the "coalition of the willing" pulled out their troops.
I was (and am) proud that Canada stood aside in 2003, but am equally pleased to see our troops involved in the current actions. In part I see it as being more proactive before IS gets the means to do something similar to 9/11. Unfortunately we're talking about a group that doesn't accept our way of life on principle and will always work to take us down.
Here in Canada we've been lucky thus far to have prevented many (unfortunately not all though) of the attacks aimed at us, in part because we're aware we're on both AQ and IS's hit lists.
It's funny... All people I've spoken, who claimed they where pro-invasion of the Middle-East, gave the same arguments... Like the fat printed above... Not only in the latests conflicts in the Middle-East, but with all conflicts anywhere and everywhere... Unfortunately we're talking about a group that doesn't accept our way of life on principle and will always work to take us down. AQ was making a point on 9/11 to take our Western nose out of their business. For once they have managed to make their point in a similar way the West has done this for centuries, to take action at a country they saw as the great evil. But doesn't the West have done this same type of action or much. much worse for centuries? Don't we invade countries for many years in which we not only attack once, but invade with many troops and assassinate whole governments, because we doesn't accept their way of life on principle and will always work to take them down? I name, basically all invasions by the West since WW II...
Why is it so difficult for people to look at this from an other perspective as their own? How would you feel if the Middle East would send in troops to assassinate the US, European and Canadian Government, Install puppets of their own, and call it bringing peace to the region? Their troops would be left for many, many years, to silence all the resistance that is left, until the whole US, Europe and Canada, had lost its own will, and just obeyed to the will of the Middle-East to give away their natural resources, for practically nothing, and if US, Europe and Canada would not be willing to bent over and take it, heavy embargo's would be placed, and trade would be made impossible... This is exactly the way the western world treats the rest of the world.
We're not bringing freedom or democracy, our troops protect the investments of the 1%, who has all the power in our societies, the money, the political power, etc., etc... Who are we to mock others to fight for a religion, which in your eyes is bogus and oppressing, while in their eyes our freedom, can be as bogus and oppressive as well... No the West isn't slaved by a God, it's slaved by Money!!! In my opinion this makes no difference, we can all be titled as slaves, and, maybe , just maybe, although I am a atheist, a God is a nicer master than Money is...
Why would all the pro-invaders neglect the responsibility the West has in the birth of movements Like AQ and IS, both are in mayor part a result of the Western way of using the rest of the world as cheap resources, in my opinion. Why are we so arrogant to believe the rest of the world will role over as we say so? Why are we so arrogant to act supersized if they stand up for themselves?
No, we may not like the way they want to live their lives, but who are we to dictate how they may live their lives. What if the Middle-East would dictate us how to live our lives? How many of you would obey the new establishment, without hesitation? I'm sure in many cases the world would be to small. In some ways 9/11 was just a slap in the face... I will not play down all the unnecessary deaths, because every unnecessary death is one to many. Every unnecessary death, no matter if its a civilian, a soldier, a child, a women , a man or someone at age, no matter what believe system they believe in, no matter what is the color of their skin or the name of their God. Why is the West so scared to of other takes on life, that the only way they want to respond is with violence? Why is violence our only answer? Look at how many different opinions we have on many subjects, why would we assume, we are the only society who has these differences? Or is it just convenient to look at other societies as just one different opinion? Why do we think, we're so much better than the rest of the world, so we might judge them with our standards? And find them inferior, to be set back on the only right (western) track.
As long as our only response is to sent troops in and convince others just with force, I believe this world will not get any friendlier with the Western world... Because we only do understand force, and so are driving others to use the same methods, and a destructive downward spiral will continue. It will remain a story of the pot and the kettle... In the end it doesn't matter who did start, because their will be no one left to keep the score. Why can't we just share the world, with all our differences? Why do people feel the need to fight?
As Brain already said, I also have a lot of questions... Maybe I have to turn to a God to get them answered...
"The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed".- Carl Jung.
"Art does not reproduce what we see; rather, it makes us see."- Paul Klee
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,945
^^^ Great post, Aafke. Our questions, for the most part, are rhetorical. We in the West were all (unless some of you are G.I. generation) born into a world that protects it's interests and have created rifts rather than worked to form peace and understanding. We could have chosen to develop alternative energy sources and limit consumption in order not to rely on imports. We could have chosen to help other countries become self-sufficient rather than dependent. We could have chosen to share our cultures rather than force ours on others and destroy theirs. We could have chosen to work for peace rather than take the easy way our and over and over chose to engage in war. And now we blame everyone else. Can we change? Is it too late? Those are not rhetorical questions.... I hope.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Thanks Brain, I sure hope those last questions won't be rhetorical... I sure hope we can change our ways, and start taking responsibility for our own actions... I hope the G7 meeting was a start with this change, by trying to get fossil fuels banned...
"The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed".- Carl Jung.
"Art does not reproduce what we see; rather, it makes us see."- Paul Klee
Comments
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
reuters.com/article/2015/06/10/us-mideast-crisis-iraq-usa-idUSKBN0OP1YD20150610
President Barack Obama on Wednesday ordered the deployment of 450 more U.S. troops to Iraq's Sunni heartland to advise and assist fragile Iraqi forces being built up to try to retake territory lost to Islamic State.
The plan to expand the 3,100-strong U.S. contingent in Iraq and open a new operations center closer to the fighting in Anbar province marks an adjustment in strategy for Obama, who has faced mounting pressure to do more to blunt the momentum of the insurgents.
But with Obama sticking to his refusal to send troops into combat or to the front lines, the White House announcement failed to silence critics who say the limited U.S. military role in the conflict is not enough to turn the tide of battle.
U.S. officials hope that a strengthened American presence on the ground in Anbar will help the Iraqi military devise and carry out a counter-attack to retake the provincial capital Ramadi, which insurgents seized last month in an onslaught that further exposed the shortcomings of the Iraqi army.
The U.S. advisers, who will be injected into the heart of one of the most hotly contested areas of the Islamic State campaign, will offer tactical advice to Iraqi officers on how to conduct their operations, the Pentagon said.
A complex challenge for the U.S. troops, who will establish a training hub at the Taqaddum military base only about 15 miles (25 km) from Ramadi, will be their outreach to Sunni tribal fighters, many of whom do not trust the Shi'ite-led government in Baghdad.
U.S. officials want to integrate them into the Iraqi army and reduce its reliance on Iran-backed Shi'ite militias who have also joined the fight against Islamic State.
Obama decided on the new troop deployment in response to a request from Iraqi Prime Minister Haidar al-Abadi, the White House said. The two leaders met while attending the G7 summit in Germany earlier this week.
"To improve the capabilities and effectiveness of partners on the ground, the president authorized the deployment of up to 450 additional U.S. military personnel to train, advise and assist Iraqi Security Forces," the White House said in a statement. ...
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
And you wonder why I'm in the green party now.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Hear there's an opening for a mercenary fighting with the curds. Sure we could crowd fund to help you with air fare.
Sheese.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
But yes..."all in" vs nothing. I know you prefer nothing. This 450 advisers is a complete waste of time.
Not with my money and not with my countries soldiers.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
As far as the question at hand, I see the current situation as the inevitable development of having an artificial deadline placed on what was essentially a war. The enemy knew they only had to hide in the sand until the "coalition of the willing" pulled out their troops.
I was (and am) proud that Canada stood aside in 2003, but am equally pleased to see our troops involved in the current actions. In part I see it as being more proactive before IS gets the means to do something similar to 9/11. Unfortunately we're talking about a group that doesn't accept our way of life on principle and will always work to take us down.
Here in Canada we've been lucky thus far to have prevented many (unfortunately not all though) of the attacks aimed at us, in part because we're aware we're on both AQ and IS's hit lists.
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Edit: We lost 158 in Afghanistan, without counting the suicides when the soldiers returned home.
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
And to clarify my own position, I've never agreed with war from the air as the only solution. Boots on the ground is what will make an actual difference, both in terms of combat and hearts and minds. Further, I believe that any war should be planned with the expectation of leaving a long-term presence on the ground, a la post-WWII Germany and Japan. I also think we left Afghanistan too early, before the work was complete.
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
I know... question, questions.
Canada should have stayed as right as they were in 03.
I saw an article from the Toronto paper that said there were 69 special forces in country. Thats it. Helping the Kurds.
I wont guess where the sorties are flying from.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Thank heavens the world's big enough for opposite points of view and rational discourse (at least in our "enlightened" society, lol).
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
Why is it so difficult for people to look at this from an other perspective as their own? How would you feel if the Middle East would send in troops to assassinate the US, European and Canadian Government, Install puppets of their own, and call it bringing peace to the region? Their troops would be left for many, many years, to silence all the resistance that is left, until the whole US, Europe and Canada, had lost its own will, and just obeyed to the will of the Middle-East to give away their natural resources, for practically nothing, and if US, Europe and Canada would not be willing to bent over and take it, heavy embargo's would be placed, and trade would be made impossible... This is exactly the way the western world treats the rest of the world.
We're not bringing freedom or democracy, our troops protect the investments of the 1%, who has all the power in our societies, the money, the political power, etc., etc... Who are we to mock others to fight for a religion, which in your eyes is bogus and oppressing, while in their eyes our freedom, can be as bogus and oppressive as well... No the West isn't slaved by a God, it's slaved by Money!!! In my opinion this makes no difference, we can all be titled as slaves, and, maybe , just maybe, although I am a atheist, a God is a nicer master than Money is...
Why would all the pro-invaders neglect the responsibility the West has in the birth of movements Like AQ and IS, both are in mayor part a result of the Western way of using the rest of the world as cheap resources, in my opinion. Why are we so arrogant to believe the rest of the world will role over as we say so? Why are we so arrogant to act supersized if they stand up for themselves?
No, we may not like the way they want to live their lives, but who are we to dictate how they may live their lives. What if the Middle-East would dictate us how to live our lives? How many of you would obey the new establishment, without hesitation? I'm sure in many cases the world would be to small. In some ways 9/11 was just a slap in the face... I will not play down all the unnecessary deaths, because every unnecessary death is one to many. Every unnecessary death, no matter if its a civilian, a soldier, a child, a women , a man or someone at age, no matter what believe system they believe in, no matter what is the color of their skin or the name of their God.
Why is the West so scared to of other takes on life, that the only way they want to respond is with violence? Why is violence our only answer?
Look at how many different opinions we have on many subjects, why would we assume, we are the only society who has these differences? Or is it just convenient to look at other societies as just one different opinion? Why do we think, we're so much better than the rest of the world, so we might judge them with our standards? And find them inferior, to be set back on the only right (western) track.
As long as our only response is to sent troops in and convince others just with force, I believe this world will not get any friendlier with the Western world... Because we only do understand force, and so are driving others to use the same methods, and a destructive downward spiral will continue. It will remain a story of the pot and the kettle... In the end it doesn't matter who did start, because their will be no one left to keep the score. Why can't we just share the world, with all our differences? Why do people feel the need to fight?
As Brain already said, I also have a lot of questions... Maybe I have to turn to a God to get them answered...
"The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed".- Carl Jung.
"Art does not reproduce what we see; rather, it makes us see."- Paul Klee
"The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed".- Carl Jung.
"Art does not reproduce what we see; rather, it makes us see."- Paul Klee