americans are responsible for the pain in suffering and poverty and death in their own country. how about we start fixing that first.
I'm not opposed to seeing what's happening in our own backyard and working on fixing some of what is broken(as long as we aren't just throwing more wasteful entitlements around).but you still can't ignore our interests around the globe.Unfortunatly they all tie together.
But rr, what are our interests around the globe? International cooperation, mutual exchange of cultures and working for the common good? Or control, power, and appropriation of resources? And which of those is ultimately better for everyone?
exactly my thoughts. what are our interests around the world?
so far our interests are to have a military footprint in every corner of the world to make sure the developing countries don't get all upity and try to throw us out. we will take their land, take their resources, keep their people poor, insure that friendly parties are in power, and just maintain status quo. that is the american interest. america uber alles.
every corner....
The symbol on the map with Russia is the NATO symbol. So we might as well add Belgium, Canada, Denmark, France, Iceland, Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, the United Kingdom and the United States, Greece, Turkey, Germany, Spain, the Czech Republic, Hungary and Poland, Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Albania and Croatia to the list of shit stirrers .
Who says they weren't a part of it? But let's not bullshit anyone and believe the U.S. wasn't behind these cuops or regime changes.
But the US didn't act alone in numerous of these crimes, Dirtie Frank has a point, most of western societies had benefits in these kind of actions... But hey, if the US will take the lead, they will get the blame... Most European countries have a burden of guild from the colonial days, and are scared the rest of the world will play that card if they will take the lead in controlling the rest of the world, but they are happy to join in when, US asks them....
Oh 100% aafke, no doubt these countries had a hand in it for sure. Look at the asshole running turkey. That guys doing everything in his power to stay in power there. The Turks want him out.
americans are responsible for the pain in suffering and poverty and death in their own country. how about we start fixing that first.
I'm not opposed to seeing what's happening in our own backyard and working on fixing some of what is broken(as long as we aren't just throwing more wasteful entitlements around).but you still can't ignore our interests around the globe.Unfortunatly they all tie together.
But rr, what are our interests around the globe? International cooperation, mutual exchange of cultures and working for the common good? Or control, power, and appropriation of resources? And which of those is ultimately better for everyone?
Brian,If we want to help those here at home we are going to need to do it not just with Govt but with the benevolence of the private sector.Not just charities and orginazations but Also wealthy individuals and buisness charities(think Ronald McDonald House,Bill Gates charities,etc). It is crucial that we protect our interests from a financial perspective,in order to continue the work we need to do at home. We can't say Fuck it and let other economies and Markets take big hits and losses hits without feeling it's butterfly effect here.Even the ones some think are evil(oil,resources) must be kept stable to not offset our markets here.
I know it dosent fit into the utopian vision of peace love and help ,but you can't have the utopia and help the helpless without it.As strong as we are as a union we have an obligation to reach beyond our borders to also help.
For example ,Yes we have drought here,but should we not try to also bring clean water to remote areas of Africa?Or should we not respond to Enviormental or Natural issues because we have them also at home.
And yes the big bad military machine is also needed worldwide to keep transport ,rail and air and shipping lanes free and clear of pirates and those who want to stop the free flow of commerce goods and services.Its our job to help police the worlds idiots who want to do no good stuff with Nuclear items not just weapons but waste.
We have good allies all over who maybe couldn't stand up to bigger,stronger regimes.We can't let them be bullied.It will hurt us domestically in the long run. And we cannot just sit by while non state actors continue to try to force there perversions onto innocent people.Letting them take over countries and gain power is not the right thing to do.Regardless of who gave them power to begin with.
Say what? Are you serious?
Of course.Whats your issue?
Interesting that you selected Ronald McDonald House, a charity for families with sick kids enduring long stays in hospitals and the wealthy individual Bill Gates. Why not the Koch Brothers, Sheldon Adleson or any number of wealthy conservative donors? The upcoming presidential election is going to cost each side close to one billion. Imagine what that kind of money could do, in say, I don’t know, Baltimore or Liberia? So, US military intervention is to be used to keep the stock market stable, regardless of which stock market it is and where its located?
I guess you’d be in favor of increasing the US contributions to the UN? If not, why? What transport, rail, air and shipping lanes are you referring to? Somalia has pirates. Should we invade Somalia? The Straight of Hormuz, the Straight of Malacca and the Panama and Suez Canals are patrolled and protected by the US but that doesn’t mean we need to invade Malaysia, Iran or Syria or re-invade Iraq. Would you be in favor of returning to a 90% top corporate tax rate? That’s what it was in the 1950s and early 60s when the US was doing good all over the world (subjective). All of these things cost money and you can’t not pay for it. Its one thing to protect the free flow of goods and services and quite another to actively meddle in another country’s internal affairs, invade or intimidate another country for economic reasons, like what the US did for Dole, Chiquita and Good Year. Why is “welfare” good overseas but not at home? And if your reference of “perversions” refers to the Islamic State, why not let the Saudi’s, Iranians, Kuwaitis, et al deal with it? Or Canada, China or the Europeans? Why is it always the US policing the world? 70 years of US meddling in the Middle East and what do we have to show for it?
americans are responsible for the pain in suffering and poverty and death in their own country. how about we start fixing that first.
I'm not opposed to seeing what's happening in our own backyard and working on fixing some of what is broken(as long as we aren't just throwing more wasteful entitlements around).but you still can't ignore our interests around the globe.Unfortunatly they all tie together.
But rr, what are our interests around the globe? International cooperation, mutual exchange of cultures and working for the common good? Or control, power, and appropriation of resources? And which of those is ultimately better for everyone?
exactly my thoughts. what are our interests around the world?
so far our interests are to have a military footprint in every corner of the world to make sure the developing countries don't get all upity and try to throw us out. we will take their land, take their resources, keep their people poor, insure that friendly parties are in power, and just maintain status quo. that is the american interest. america uber alles.
every corner....
The symbol on the map with Russia is the NATO symbol. So we might as well add Belgium, Canada, Denmark, France, Iceland, Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, the United Kingdom and the United States, Greece, Turkey, Germany, Spain, the Czech Republic, Hungary and Poland, Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Albania and Croatia to the list of shit stirrers .
I have no problem with that, and I very rarely blame the US solely for these problems. There are def occasions that they work exclusive of their allies, but for the most part, the foreign policy of the US is favourable to everyone working under the anglo-US-NATO economic umbrella. The pics I posted obviously have a degree of hyperbole to them - it's a meme for chrissake. Not meant as evidence in a debate.
I heard recently that the US is treaty bound to come to the defense of 25% of the earth's population. How much more can we do and how much more should we do? Nations that trade together don't go to war against each other. Cut US foreign and military aid 10% a year for 10 years for everyone across the board and tell them to develop their economies instead and start figuring it out. Particularly the Middle East.
americans are responsible for the pain in suffering and poverty and death in their own country. how about we start fixing that first.
I'm not opposed to seeing what's happening in our own backyard and working on fixing some of what is broken(as long as we aren't just throwing more wasteful entitlements around).but you still can't ignore our interests around the globe.Unfortunatly they all tie together.
But rr, what are our interests around the globe? International cooperation, mutual exchange of cultures and working for the common good? Or control, power, and appropriation of resources? And which of those is ultimately better for everyone?
Brian,If we want to help those here at home we are going to need to do it not just with Govt but with the benevolence of the private sector.Not just charities and orginazations but Also wealthy individuals and buisness charities(think Ronald McDonald House,Bill Gates charities,etc). It is crucial that we protect our interests from a financial perspective,in order to continue the work we need to do at home. We can't say Fuck it and let other economies and Markets take big hits and losses hits without feeling it's butterfly effect here.Even the ones some think are evil(oil,resources) must be kept stable to not offset our markets here.
I know it dosent fit into the utopian vision of peace love and help ,but you can't have the utopia and help the helpless without it.As strong as we are as a union we have an obligation to reach beyond our borders to also help.
For example ,Yes we have drought here,but should we not try to also bring clean water to remote areas of Africa?Or should we not respond to Enviormental or Natural issues because we have them also at home.
And yes the big bad military machine is also needed worldwide to keep transport ,rail and air and shipping lanes free and clear of pirates and those who want to stop the free flow of commerce goods and services.Its our job to help police the worlds idiots who want to do no good stuff with Nuclear items not just weapons but waste.
We have good allies all over who maybe couldn't stand up to bigger,stronger regimes.We can't let them be bullied.It will hurt us domestically in the long run. And we cannot just sit by while non state actors continue to try to force there perversions onto innocent people.Letting them take over countries and gain power is not the right thing to do.Regardless of who gave them power to begin with.
Say what? Are you serious?
Of course.Whats your issue?
Interesting that you selected Ronald McDonald House, a charity for families with sick kids enduring long stays in hospitals and the wealthy individual Bill Gates. Why not the Koch Brothers, Sheldon Adleson or any number of wealthy conservative donors? The upcoming presidential election is going to cost each side close to one billion. Imagine what that kind of money could do, in say, I don’t know, Baltimore or Liberia? So, US military intervention is to be used to keep the stock market stable, regardless of which stock market it is and where its located?
I guess you’d be in favor of increasing the US contributions to the UN? If not, why? What transport, rail, air and shipping lanes are you referring to? Somalia has pirates. Should we invade Somalia? The Straight of Hormuz, the Straight of Malacca and the Panama and Suez Canals are patrolled and protected by the US but that doesn’t mean we need to invade Malaysia, Iran or Syria or re-invade Iraq. Would you be in favor of returning to a 90% top corporate tax rate? That’s what it was in the 1950s and early 60s when the US was doing good all over the world (subjective). All of these things cost money and you can’t not pay for it. Its one thing to protect the free flow of goods and services and quite another to actively meddle in another country’s internal affairs, invade or intimidate another country for economic reasons, like what the US did for Dole, Chiquita and Good Year. Why is “welfare” good overseas but not at home? And if your reference of “perversions” refers to the Islamic State, why not let the Saudi’s, Iranians, Kuwaitis, et al deal with it? Or Canada, China or the Europeans? Why is it always the US policing the world? 70 years of US meddling in the Middle East and what do we have to show for it?
Where to start? Im not sure how you pulled all that out of my post? I didn't advocate for any invasion.And I'm not sure what your trying to say.I was simply saying that you just can't say fuck it ,we need to focus on the poor here at home and turn a blind eye to world affairs.Its all intertwined.are you really manufacturing an argument here?
No we should not return to higher corporate rates,but I didn't bring up taxation. I didn't bring up the Koch brothers because I thought 2 examples was enough to make my point. I mentioned nothing about meddling in other countries affairs,I'm talking about about helping and supporting. And I have plenty of problems with human rights and personal freedom restrictions in the Middle East.But that's not what we are discussing.Why bring that up when you know damn well I was referencing IS and how they are perverting a peaceful religion. Read it next time!
americans are responsible for the pain in suffering and poverty and death in their own country. how about we start fixing that first.
I'm not opposed to seeing what's happening in our own backyard and working on fixing some of what is broken(as long as we aren't just throwing more wasteful entitlements around).but you still can't ignore our interests around the globe.Unfortunatly they all tie together.
But rr, what are our interests around the globe? International cooperation, mutual exchange of cultures and working for the common good? Or control, power, and appropriation of resources? And which of those is ultimately better for everyone?
Brian,If we want to help those here at home we are going to need to do it not just with Govt but with the benevolence of the private sector.Not just charities and orginazations but Also wealthy individuals and buisness charities(think Ronald McDonald House,Bill Gates charities,etc). It is crucial that we protect our interests from a financial perspective,in order to continue the work we need to do at home. We can't say Fuck it and let other economies and Markets take big hits and losses hits without feeling it's butterfly effect here.Even the ones some think are evil(oil,resources) must be kept stable to not offset our markets here.
I know it dosent fit into the utopian vision of peace love and help ,but you can't have the utopia and help the helpless without it.As strong as we are as a union we have an obligation to reach beyond our borders to also help.
For example ,Yes we have drought here,but should we not try to also bring clean water to remote areas of Africa?Or should we not respond to Enviormental or Natural issues because we have them also at home.
And yes the big bad military machine is also needed worldwide to keep transport ,rail and air and shipping lanes free and clear of pirates and those who want to stop the free flow of commerce goods and services.Its our job to help police the worlds idiots who want to do no good stuff with Nuclear items not just weapons but waste.
We have good allies all over who maybe couldn't stand up to bigger,stronger regimes.We can't let them be bullied.It will hurt us domestically in the long run. And we cannot just sit by while non state actors continue to try to force there perversions onto innocent people.Letting them take over countries and gain power is not the right thing to do.Regardless of who gave them power to begin with.
Say what? Are you serious?
Of course.Whats your issue?
Interesting that you selected Ronald McDonald House, a charity for families with sick kids enduring long stays in hospitals and the wealthy individual Bill Gates. Why not the Koch Brothers, Sheldon Adleson or any number of wealthy conservative donors? The upcoming presidential election is going to cost each side close to one billion. Imagine what that kind of money could do, in say, I don’t know, Baltimore or Liberia? So, US military intervention is to be used to keep the stock market stable, regardless of which stock market it is and where its located?
I guess you’d be in favor of increasing the US contributions to the UN? If not, why? What transport, rail, air and shipping lanes are you referring to? Somalia has pirates. Should we invade Somalia? The Straight of Hormuz, the Straight of Malacca and the Panama and Suez Canals are patrolled and protected by the US but that doesn’t mean we need to invade Malaysia, Iran or Syria or re-invade Iraq. Would you be in favor of returning to a 90% top corporate tax rate? That’s what it was in the 1950s and early 60s when the US was doing good all over the world (subjective). All of these things cost money and you can’t not pay for it. Its one thing to protect the free flow of goods and services and quite another to actively meddle in another country’s internal affairs, invade or intimidate another country for economic reasons, like what the US did for Dole, Chiquita and Good Year. Why is “welfare” good overseas but not at home? And if your reference of “perversions” refers to the Islamic State, why not let the Saudi’s, Iranians, Kuwaitis, et al deal with it? Or Canada, China or the Europeans? Why is it always the US policing the world? 70 years of US meddling in the Middle East and what do we have to show for it?
Where to start? Im not sure how you pulled all that out of my post? I didn't advocate for any invasion.And I'm not sure what your trying to say.I was simply saying that you just can't say fuck it ,we need to focus on the poor here at home and turn a blind eye to world affairs.Its all intertwined.are you really manufacturing an argument here?
No we should not return to higher corporate rates,but I didn't bring up taxation. I didn't bring up the Koch brothers because I thought 2 examples was enough to make my point. I mentioned nothing about meddling in other countries affairs,I'm talking about about helping and supporting. And I have plenty of problems with human rights and personal freedom restrictions in the Middle East.But that's not what we are discussing.Why bring that up when you know damn well I was referencing IS and how they are perverting a peaceful religion. Read it next time!
Funny, I did read it. How much more does the US have to do abroad. If we don't take care of shit closer to home, we'll collapse from within. And the Koch brothers would rather buy an election(s) than help the meek overseas. Why shouldn't the inhabitants of the Middle East deal with their issues? No need to get pissy about it.
americans are responsible for the pain in suffering and poverty and death in their own country. how about we start fixing that first.
I'm not opposed to seeing what's happening in our own backyard and working on fixing some of what is broken(as long as we aren't just throwing more wasteful entitlements around).but you still can't ignore our interests around the globe.Unfortunatly they all tie together.
But rr, what are our interests around the globe? International cooperation, mutual exchange of cultures and working for the common good? Or control, power, and appropriation of resources? And which of those is ultimately better for everyone?
Brian,If we want to help those here at home we are going to need to do it not just with Govt but with the benevolence of the private sector.Not just charities and orginazations but Also wealthy individuals and buisness charities(think Ronald McDonald House,Bill Gates charities,etc). It is crucial that we protect our interests from a financial perspective,in order to continue the work we need to do at home. We can't say Fuck it and let other economies and Markets take big hits and losses hits without feeling it's butterfly effect here.Even the ones some think are evil(oil,resources) must be kept stable to not offset our markets here.
I know it dosent fit into the utopian vision of peace love and help ,but you can't have the utopia and help the helpless without it.As strong as we are as a union we have an obligation to reach beyond our borders to also help.
For example ,Yes we have drought here,but should we not try to also bring clean water to remote areas of Africa?Or should we not respond to Enviormental or Natural issues because we have them also at home.
And yes the big bad military machine is also needed worldwide to keep transport ,rail and air and shipping lanes free and clear of pirates and those who want to stop the free flow of commerce goods and services.Its our job to help police the worlds idiots who want to do no good stuff with Nuclear items not just weapons but waste.
We have good allies all over who maybe couldn't stand up to bigger,stronger regimes.We can't let them be bullied.It will hurt us domestically in the long run. And we cannot just sit by while non state actors continue to try to force there perversions onto innocent people.Letting them take over countries and gain power is not the right thing to do.Regardless of who gave them power to begin with.
Say what? Are you serious?
Of course.Whats your issue?
Interesting that you selected Ronald McDonald House, a charity for families with sick kids enduring long stays in hospitals and the wealthy individual Bill Gates. Why not the Koch Brothers, Sheldon Adleson or any number of wealthy conservative donors? The upcoming presidential election is going to cost each side close to one billion. Imagine what that kind of money could do, in say, I don’t know, Baltimore or Liberia? So, US military intervention is to be used to keep the stock market stable, regardless of which stock market it is and where its located?
I guess you’d be in favor of increasing the US contributions to the UN? If not, why? What transport, rail, air and shipping lanes are you referring to? Somalia has pirates. Should we invade Somalia? The Straight of Hormuz, the Straight of Malacca and the Panama and Suez Canals are patrolled and protected by the US but that doesn’t mean we need to invade Malaysia, Iran or Syria or re-invade Iraq. Would you be in favor of returning to a 90% top corporate tax rate? That’s what it was in the 1950s and early 60s when the US was doing good all over the world (subjective). All of these things cost money and you can’t not pay for it. Its one thing to protect the free flow of goods and services and quite another to actively meddle in another country’s internal affairs, invade or intimidate another country for economic reasons, like what the US did for Dole, Chiquita and Good Year. Why is “welfare” good overseas but not at home? And if your reference of “perversions” refers to the Islamic State, why not let the Saudi’s, Iranians, Kuwaitis, et al deal with it? Or Canada, China or the Europeans? Why is it always the US policing the world? 70 years of US meddling in the Middle East and what do we have to show for it?
Where to start? Im not sure how you pulled all that out of my post? I didn't advocate for any invasion.And I'm not sure what your trying to say.I was simply saying that you just can't say fuck it ,we need to focus on the poor here at home and turn a blind eye to world affairs.Its all intertwined.are you really manufacturing an argument here?
No we should not return to higher corporate rates,but I didn't bring up taxation. I didn't bring up the Koch brothers because I thought 2 examples was enough to make my point. I mentioned nothing about meddling in other countries affairs,I'm talking about about helping and supporting. And I have plenty of problems with human rights and personal freedom restrictions in the Middle East.But that's not what we are discussing.Why bring that up when you know damn well I was referencing IS and how they are perverting a peaceful religion. Read it next time!
Funny, I did read it. How much more does the US have to do abroad. If we don't take care of shit closer to home, we'll collapse from within. And the Koch brothers would rather buy an election(s) than help the meek overseas. Why shouldn't the inhabitants of the Middle East deal with their issues? No need to get pissy about it.
I had a shitty day,did not mean to project it toward you.I apologize for that.I need a beer,a shower and a bowl.I will leave word with the barkeep in the lounge for you to put a top shelf beverage of your choice on my tab.
But,
It seems the rhetoric in these threads runs along the same path over and over regardless of issue.Like a big liberal circle jerk.I get that ,and it comes with territory here.
There is room for other schools of thought.Not every answer is that The USA is bad,Republicans are Bad,Corparations are bad,Money is evil,We started every problem in the world.Blah,blah,blah. Sometimes it's ok to explore some of the other angles and opinions to the same issues. Not all of us are partisan and stuck in a myopic view of every issue.Not talking about you personally,but just saying.
but you still can't ignore our interests around the globe.Unfortunatly they all tie together.
But rr, what are our interests around the globe? International cooperation, mutual exchange of cultures and working for the common good? Or control, power, and appropriation of resources? And which of those is ultimately better for everyone?
Brian,If we want to help those here at home we are going to need to do it not just with Govt but with the benevolence of the private sector.Not just charities and orginazations but Also wealthy individuals and buisness charities(think Ronald McDonald House,Bill Gates charities,etc). It is crucial that we protect our interests from a financial perspective,in order to continue the work we need to do at home. We can't say Fuck it and let other economies and Markets take big hits and losses hits without feeling it's butterfly effect here.Even the ones some think are evil(oil,resources) must be kept stable to not offset our markets here.
I know it dosent fit into the utopian vision of peace love and help ,but you can't have the utopia and help the helpless without it.As strong as we are as a union we have an obligation to reach beyond our borders to also help.
For example ,Yes we have drought here,but should we not try to also bring clean water to remote areas of Africa?Or should we not respond to Enviormental or Natural issues because we have them also at home.
And yes the big bad military machine is also needed worldwide to keep transport ,rail and air and shipping lanes free and clear of pirates and those who want to stop the free flow of commerce goods and services.Its our job to help police the worlds idiots who want to do no good stuff with Nuclear items not just weapons but waste.
We have good allies all over who maybe couldn't stand up to bigger,stronger regimes.We can't let them be bullied.It will hurt us domestically in the long run. And we cannot just sit by while non state actors continue to try to force there perversions onto innocent people.Letting them take over countries and gain power is not the right thing to do.Regardless of who gave them power to begin with.
Say what? Are you serious?
Of course.Whats your issue?
Interesting that you selected Ronald McDonald House, a charity for families with sick kids enduring long stays in hospitals and the wealthy individual Bill Gates. Why not the Koch Brothers, Sheldon Adleson or any number of wealthy conservative donors? The upcoming presidential election is going to cost each side close to one billion. Imagine what that kind of money could do, in say, I don’t know, Baltimore or Liberia? So, US military intervention is to be used to keep the stock market stable, regardless of which stock market it is and where its located?
I guess you’d be in favor of increasing the US contributions to the UN? If not, why? What transport, rail, air and shipping lanes are you referring to? Somalia has pirates. Should we invade Somalia? The Straight of Hormuz, the Straight of Malacca and the Panama and Suez Canals are patrolled and protected by the US but that doesn’t mean we need to invade Malaysia, Iran or Syria or re-invade Iraq. Would you be in favor of returning to a 90% top corporate tax rate? That’s what it was in the 1950s and early 60s when the US was doing good all over the world (subjective). All of these things cost money and you can’t not pay for it. Its one thing to protect the free flow of goods and services and quite another to actively meddle in another country’s internal affairs, invade or intimidate another country for economic reasons, like what the US did for Dole, Chiquita and Good Year. Why is “welfare” good overseas but not at home? And if your reference of “perversions” refers to the Islamic State, why not let the Saudi’s, Iranians, Kuwaitis, et al deal with it? Or Canada, China or the Europeans? Why is it always the US policing the world? 70 years of US meddling in the Middle East and what do we have to show for it?
Where to start? Im not sure how you pulled all that out of my post? I didn't advocate for any invasion.And I'm not sure what your trying to say.I was simply saying that you just can't say fuck it ,we need to focus on the poor here at home and turn a blind eye to world affairs.Its all intertwined.are you really manufacturing an argument here?
No we should not return to higher corporate rates,but I didn't bring up taxation. I didn't bring up the Koch brothers because I thought 2 examples was enough to make my point. I mentioned nothing about meddling in other countries affairs,I'm talking about about helping and supporting. And I have plenty of problems with human rights and personal freedom restrictions in the Middle East.But that's not what we are discussing.Why bring that up when you know damn well I was referencing IS and how they are perverting a peaceful religion. Read it next time!
Funny, I did read it. How much more does the US have to do abroad. If we don't take care of shit closer to home, we'll collapse from within. And the Koch brothers would rather buy an election(s) than help the meek overseas. Why shouldn't the inhabitants of the Middle East deal with their issues? No need to get pissy about it.
I had a shitty day,did not mean to project it toward you.I apologize for that.I need a beer,a shower and a bowl.I will leave word with the barkeep in the lounge for you to put a top shelf beverage of your choice on my tab.
But,
It seems the rhetoric in these threads runs along the same path over and over regardless of issue.Like a big liberal circle jerk.I get that ,and it comes with territory here.
There is room for other schools of thought.Not every answer is that The USA is bad,Republicans are Bad,Corparations are bad,Money is evil,We started every problem in the world.Blah,blah,blah. Sometimes it's ok to explore some of the other angles and opinions to the same issues. Not all of us are partisan and stuck in a myopic view of every issue.Not talking about you personally,but just saying.
I'll accept your offer and chase it with a shot. But the same could be said about it being a conservative circle jerk. Liberalism isn't a bad word. Particularly where we've seen what the conservatives have done to the environment, women's rights, privacy and the creation of a police state and "corporations are people too.," never mind Iraq. Meanwhile black residents and the poor of Chicago and Baltimore and Cleveland and other places go without their needs being met and are mocked for being poor. I get it, it's okay for one side to pronounce how great they are viewing most things through a distorted lense of history and god or Allah or whoever forbid you question them on it. Remember, "if your not with us, you're with the terrorists" and "our number one job is to see this president fail." Frankly, I'm sick of the hypocrisy and the double standard.
Who's bar tending? I'll tip them well. And not directed at you personally, just a blanket statement about the US' role in the world. Less bombs and more trying solve issues without 'em. Now, I'm going to get that drink you bought me! And thank you!
americans are responsible for the pain in suffering and poverty and death in their own country. how about we start fixing that first.
I'm not opposed to seeing what's happening in our own backyard and working on fixing some of what is broken(as long as we aren't just throwing more wasteful entitlements around).but you still can't ignore our interests around the globe.Unfortunatly they all tie together.
But rr, what are our interests around the globe? International cooperation, mutual exchange of cultures and working for the common good? Or control, power, and appropriation of resources? And which of those is ultimately better for everyone?
Brian,If we want to help those here at home we are going to need to do it not just with Govt but with the benevolence of the private sector.Not just charities and orginazations but Also wealthy individuals and buisness charities(think Ronald McDonald House,Bill Gates charities,etc). It is crucial that we protect our interests from a financial perspective,in order to continue the work we need to do at home. We can't say Fuck it and let other economies and Markets take big hits and losses hits without feeling it's butterfly effect here.Even the ones some think are evil(oil,resources) must be kept stable to not offset our markets here.
I know it dosent fit into the utopian vision of peace love and help ,but you can't have the utopia and help the helpless without it.As strong as we are as a union we have an obligation to reach beyond our borders to also help.
For example ,Yes we have drought here,but should we not try to also bring clean water to remote areas of Africa?Or should we not respond to Enviormental or Natural issues because we have them also at home.
And yes the big bad military machine is also needed worldwide to keep transport ,rail and air and shipping lanes free and clear of pirates and those who want to stop the free flow of commerce goods and services.Its our job to help police the worlds idiots who want to do no good stuff with Nuclear items not just weapons but waste.
We have good allies all over who maybe couldn't stand up to bigger,stronger regimes.We can't let them be bullied.It will hurt us domestically in the long run. And we cannot just sit by while non state actors continue to try to force there perversions onto innocent people.Letting them take over countries and gain power is not the right thing to do.Regardless of who gave them power to begin with.
Say what? Are you serious?
Of course.Whats your issue?
Interesting that you selected Ronald McDonald House, a charity for families with sick kids enduring long stays in hospitals and the wealthy individual Bill Gates. Why not the Koch Brothers, Sheldon Adleson or any number of wealthy conservative donors? The upcoming presidential election is going to cost each side close to one billion. Imagine what that kind of money could do, in say, I don’t know, Baltimore or Liberia? So, US military intervention is to be used to keep the stock market stable, regardless of which stock market it is and where its located?
I guess you’d be in favor of increasing the US contributions to the UN? If not, why? What transport, rail, air and shipping lanes are you referring to? Somalia has pirates. Should we invade Somalia? The Straight of Hormuz, the Straight of Malacca and the Panama and Suez Canals are patrolled and protected by the US but that doesn’t mean we need to invade Malaysia, Iran or Syria or re-invade Iraq. Would you be in favor of returning to a 90% top corporate tax rate? That’s what it was in the 1950s and early 60s when the US was doing good all over the world (subjective). All of these things cost money and you can’t not pay for it. Its one thing to protect the free flow of goods and services and quite another to actively meddle in another country’s internal affairs, invade or intimidate another country for economic reasons, like what the US did for Dole, Chiquita and Good Year. Why is “welfare” good overseas but not at home? And if your reference of “perversions” refers to the Islamic State, why not let the Saudi’s, Iranians, Kuwaitis, et al deal with it? Or Canada, China or the Europeans? Why is it always the US policing the world? 70 years of US meddling in the Middle East and what do we have to show for it?
Where to start? Im not sure how you pulled all that out of my post? I didn't advocate for any invasion.And I'm not sure what your trying to say.I was simply saying that you just can't say fuck it ,we need to focus on the poor here at home and turn a blind eye to world affairs.Its all intertwined.are you really manufacturing an argument here?
No we should not return to higher corporate rates,but I didn't bring up taxation. I didn't bring up the Koch brothers because I thought 2 examples was enough to make my point. I mentioned nothing about meddling in other countries affairs,I'm talking about about helping and supporting. And I have plenty of problems with human rights and personal freedom restrictions in the Middle East.But that's not what we are discussing.Why bring that up when you know damn well I was referencing IS and how they are perverting a peaceful religion. Read it next time!
Funny, I did read it. How much more does the US have to do abroad. If we don't take care of shit closer to home, we'll collapse from within. And the Koch brothers would rather buy an election(s) than help the meek overseas. Why shouldn't the inhabitants of the Middle East deal with their issues? No need to get pissy about it.
I had a shitty day,did not mean to project it toward you.I apologize for that.I need a beer,a shower and a bowl.I will leave word with the barkeep in the lounge for you to put a top shelf beverage of your choice on my tab.
But,
It seems the rhetoric in these threads runs along the same path over and over regardless of issue.Like a big liberal circle jerk.I get that ,and it comes with territory here.
There is room for other schools of thought.Not every answer is that The USA is bad,Republicans are Bad,Corparations are bad,Money is evil,We started every problem in the world.Blah,blah,blah. Sometimes it's ok to explore some of the other angles and opinions to the same issues. Not all of us are partisan and stuck in a myopic view of every issue.Not talking about you personally,but just saying.
Hey now, democrats are just as shitty as republicans. Both sides suck big donkey dicks. Just saying
I haven't spent much time looking into Rwanda. I have no idea how valid either side of this discussion's claims are. But that's kind of the point I'm trying to make in posting this: Unless we feel 100% comfortable in what we're supporting, it is a slippery slope, even in regards to UN peacekeeping missions, to support military intervention on foreign soil....there are two sides to every story. How do we know we are choosing the 'right' side of these conflicts? In general: by what we see in the media....which we know serves the interests of it's owners over the people 99/100. Because of this, we can so easily be duped into supporting interests that have nothing to do with our personal intentions of altruism. As the article states - Rwanda is often held up as an example of failed humanitarian intervention (and thus as justification for humanitarian intervention in other conflicts, as you thirty, have done in this thread)....when in fact, it just might have been a prime example of why humanitarian intervention may not be as it seems. Depressing....not sure where that leaves us in regards to preventing wholesale slaughter.
You have pasted a ton here, Drowned, and I'm not exactly sure of what it is you wish for me to comment on. If there is something specific, please point this out to me and I'll do my best.
I want to go on record as saying I never 'justified' a humanitarian effort: I posed the question as to whether or not one was needed and cited the failures in Rwanda as a framework for posing the question. Discussion was my motivation.
You are correct that the Rwanda crisis is not crystal clear. I have read multiple accounts that are critical of Dallaire, but to be honest... I'm skeptical of them. The factions typically trying to discredit Dallaire were, in many cases, often also trying to defend their actions (or inactions)- in particular, the Belgian government who were busy addressing their own critics when they vacated the country after losing their soldiers.
Philip Gourevitch's book was another excellent account of the genocide and it independently supports Dallaire's account of how things unfolded through his research. Much of my formulated opinions have stemmed from this book.
The one point in the previously posted material you presented I would like to address is the fact that the US stalled the UN on various items and handcuffed the peacekeeping mission. The US experience in Somalia was typically accepted for their reluctance, but deeper theories do exist.
but you still can't ignore our interests around the globe.Unfortunatly they all tie together.
Brian,If we want to help those here at home we are going to need to do it not just with Govt but with the benevolence of the private sector.Not just charities and orginazations but Also wealthy individuals and buisness charities(think Ronald McDonald House,Bill Gates charities,etc). It is crucial that we protect our interests from a financial perspective,in order to continue the work we need to do at home. We can't say Fuck it and let other economies and Markets take big hits and losses hits without feeling it's butterfly effect here.Even the ones some think are evil(oil,resources) must be kept stable to not offset our markets here.
I know it dosent fit into the utopian vision of peace love and help ,but you can't have the utopia and help the helpless without it.As strong as we are as a union we have an obligation to reach beyond our borders to also help.
For example ,Yes we have drought here,but should we not try to also bring clean water to remote areas of Africa?Or should we not respond to Enviormental or Natural issues because we have them also at home.
And yes the big bad military machine is also needed worldwide to keep transport ,rail and air and shipping lanes free and clear of pirates and those who want to stop the free flow of commerce goods and services.Its our job to help police the worlds idiots who want to do no good stuff with Nuclear items not just weapons but waste.
We have good allies all over who maybe couldn't stand up to bigger,stronger regimes.We can't let them be bullied.It will hurt us domestically in the long run. And we cannot just sit by while non state actors continue to try to force there perversions onto innocent people.Letting them take over countries and gain power is not the right thing to do.Regardless of who gave them power to begin with.
Say what? Are you serious?
Of course.Whats your issue?
Interesting that you selected Ronald McDonald House, a charity for families with sick kids enduring long stays in hospitals and the wealthy individual Bill Gates. Why not the Koch Brothers, Sheldon Adleson or any number of wealthy conservative donors? The upcoming presidential election is going to cost each side close to one billion. Imagine what that kind of money could do, in say, I don’t know, Baltimore or Liberia? So, US military intervention is to be used to keep the stock market stable, regardless of which stock market it is and where its located?
I guess you’d be in favor of increasing the US contributions to the UN? If not, why? What transport, rail, air and shipping lanes are you referring to? Somalia has pirates. Should we invade Somalia? The Straight of Hormuz, the Straight of Malacca and the Panama and Suez Canals are patrolled and protected by the US but that doesn’t mean we need to invade Malaysia, Iran or Syria or re-invade Iraq. Would you be in favor of returning to a 90% top corporate tax rate? That’s what it was in the 1950s and early 60s when the US was doing good all over the world (subjective). All of these things cost money and you can’t not pay for it. Its one thing to protect the free flow of goods and services and quite another to actively meddle in another country’s internal affairs, invade or intimidate another country for economic reasons, like what the US did for Dole, Chiquita and Good Year. Why is “welfare” good overseas but not at home? And if your reference of “perversions” refers to the Islamic State, why not let the Saudi’s, Iranians, Kuwaitis, et al deal with it? Or Canada, China or the Europeans? Why is it always the US policing the world? 70 years of US meddling in the Middle East and what do we have to show for it?
Where to start? Im not sure how you pulled all that out of my post? I didn't advocate for any invasion.And I'm not sure what your trying to say.I was simply saying that you just can't say fuck it ,we need to focus on the poor here at home and turn a blind eye to world affairs.Its all intertwined.are you really manufacturing an argument here?
No we should not return to higher corporate rates,but I didn't bring up taxation. I didn't bring up the Koch brothers because I thought 2 examples was enough to make my point. I mentioned nothing about meddling in other countries affairs,I'm talking about about helping and supporting. And I have plenty of problems with human rights and personal freedom restrictions in the Middle East.But that's not what we are discussing.Why bring that up when you know damn well I was referencing IS and how they are perverting a peaceful religion. Read it next time!
Funny, I did read it. How much more does the US have to do abroad. If we don't take care of shit closer to home, we'll collapse from within. And the Koch brothers would rather buy an election(s) than help the meek overseas. Why shouldn't the inhabitants of the Middle East deal with their issues? No need to get pissy about it.
I had a shitty day,did not mean to project it toward you.I apologize for that.I need a beer,a shower and a bowl.I will leave word with the barkeep in the lounge for you to put a top shelf beverage of your choice on my tab.
But,
It seems the rhetoric in these threads runs along the same path over and over regardless of issue.Like a big liberal circle jerk.I get that ,and it comes with territory here.
There is room for other schools of thought.Not every answer is that The USA is bad,Republicans are Bad,Corparations are bad,Money is evil,We started every problem in the world.Blah,blah,blah. Sometimes it's ok to explore some of the other angles and opinions to the same issues. Not all of us are partisan and stuck in a myopic view of every issue.Not talking about you personally,but just saying.
I'll accept your offer and chase it with a shot. But the same could be said about it being a conservative circle jerk. Liberalism isn't a bad word. Particularly where we've seen what the conservatives have done to the environment, women's rights, privacy and the creation of a police state and "corporations are people too.," never mind Iraq. Meanwhile black residents and the poor of Chicago and Baltimore and Cleveland and other places go without their needs being met and are mocked for being poor. I get it, it's okay for one side to pronounce how great they are viewing most things through a distorted lense of history and god or Allah or whoever forbid you question them on it. Remember, "if your not with us, you're with the terrorists" and "our number one job is to see this president fail." Frankly, I'm sick of the hypocrisy and the double standard.
Who's bar tending? I'll tip them well. And not directed at you personally, just a blanket statement about the US' role in the world. Less bombs and more trying solve issues without 'em. Now, I'm going to get that drink you bought me! And thank you!
BS: Chicago, Baltimore and Cleveland are liberal towns. No conservative policies there. The only people mocking them for being poor are the liberals who keep them poor. Own. It.
I'm not opposed to seeing what's happening in our own backyard and working on fixing some of what is broken(as long as we aren't just throwing more wasteful entitlements around).but you still can't ignore our interests around the globe.Unfortunatly they all tie together.
Brian,If we want to help those here at home we are going to need to do it not just with Govt but with the benevolence of the private sector.Not just charities and orginazations but Also wealthy individuals and buisness charities(think Ronald McDonald House,Bill Gates charities,etc). It is crucial that we protect our interests from a financial perspective,in order to continue the work we need to do at home. We can't say Fuck it and let other economies and Markets take big hits and losses hits without feeling it's butterfly effect here.Even the ones some think are evil(oil,resources) must be kept stable to not offset our markets here.
I know it dosent fit into the utopian vision of peace love and help ,but you can't have the utopia and help the helpless without it.As strong as we are as a union we have an obligation to reach beyond our borders to also help.
For example ,Yes we have drought here,but should we not try to also bring clean water to remote areas of Africa?Or should we not respond to Enviormental or Natural issues because we have them also at home.
And yes the big bad military machine is also needed worldwide to keep transport ,rail and air and shipping lanes free and clear of pirates and those who want to stop the free flow of commerce goods and services.Its our job to help police the worlds idiots who want to do no good stuff with Nuclear items not just weapons but waste.
We have good allies all over who maybe couldn't stand up to bigger,stronger regimes.We can't let them be bullied.It will hurt us domestically in the long run. And we cannot just sit by while non state actors continue to try to force there perversions onto innocent people.Letting them take over countries and gain power is not the right thing to do.Regardless of who gave them power to begin with.
Say what? Are you serious?
Of course.Whats your issue?
Interesting that you selected Ronald McDonald House, a charity for families with sick kids enduring long stays in hospitals and the wealthy individual Bill Gates. Why not the Koch Brothers, Sheldon Adleson or any number of wealthy conservative donors? The upcoming presidential election is going to cost each side close to one billion. Imagine what that kind of money could do, in say, I don’t know, Baltimore or Liberia? So, US military intervention is to be used to keep the stock market stable, regardless of which stock market it is and where its located?
I guess you’d be in favor of increasing the US contributions to the UN? If not, why? What transport, rail, air and shipping lanes are you referring to? Somalia has pirates. Should we invade Somalia? The Straight of Hormuz, the Straight of Malacca and the Panama and Suez Canals are patrolled and protected by the US but that doesn’t mean we need to invade Malaysia, Iran or Syria or re-invade Iraq. Would you be in favor of returning to a 90% top corporate tax rate? That’s what it was in the 1950s and early 60s when the US was doing good all over the world (subjective). All of these things cost money and you can’t not pay for it. Its one thing to protect the free flow of goods and services and quite another to actively meddle in another country’s internal affairs, invade or intimidate another country for economic reasons, like what the US did for Dole, Chiquita and Good Year. Why is “welfare” good overseas but not at home? And if your reference of “perversions” refers to the Islamic State, why not let the Saudi’s, Iranians, Kuwaitis, et al deal with it? Or Canada, China or the Europeans? Why is it always the US policing the world? 70 years of US meddling in the Middle East and what do we have to show for it?
Where to start? Im not sure how you pulled all that out of my post? I didn't advocate for any invasion.And I'm not sure what your trying to say.I was simply saying that you just can't say fuck it ,we need to focus on the poor here at home and turn a blind eye to world affairs.Its all intertwined.are you really manufacturing an argument here?
No we should not return to higher corporate rates,but I didn't bring up taxation. I didn't bring up the Koch brothers because I thought 2 examples was enough to make my point. I mentioned nothing about meddling in other countries affairs,I'm talking about about helping and supporting. And I have plenty of problems with human rights and personal freedom restrictions in the Middle East.But that's not what we are discussing.Why bring that up when you know damn well I was referencing IS and how they are perverting a peaceful religion. Read it next time!
Funny, I did read it. How much more does the US have to do abroad. If we don't take care of shit closer to home, we'll collapse from within. And the Koch brothers would rather buy an election(s) than help the meek overseas. Why shouldn't the inhabitants of the Middle East deal with their issues? No need to get pissy about it.
I had a shitty day,did not mean to project it toward you.I apologize for that.I need a beer,a shower and a bowl.I will leave word with the barkeep in the lounge for you to put a top shelf beverage of your choice on my tab.
But,
It seems the rhetoric in these threads runs along the same path over and over regardless of issue.Like a big liberal circle jerk.I get that ,and it comes with territory here.
There is room for other schools of thought.Not every answer is that The USA is bad,Republicans are Bad,Corparations are bad,Money is evil,We started every problem in the world.Blah,blah,blah. Sometimes it's ok to explore some of the other angles and opinions to the same issues. Not all of us are partisan and stuck in a myopic view of every issue.Not talking about you personally,but just saying.
I'll accept your offer and chase it with a shot. But the same could be said about it being a conservative circle jerk. Liberalism isn't a bad word. Particularly where we've seen what the conservatives have done to the environment, women's rights, privacy and the creation of a police state and "corporations are people too.," never mind Iraq. Meanwhile black residents and the poor of Chicago and Baltimore and Cleveland and other places go without their needs being met and are mocked for being poor. I get it, it's okay for one side to pronounce how great they are viewing most things through a distorted lense of history and god or Allah or whoever forbid you question them on it. Remember, "if your not with us, you're with the terrorists" and "our number one job is to see this president fail." Frankly, I'm sick of the hypocrisy and the double standard.
Who's bar tending? I'll tip them well. And not directed at you personally, just a blanket statement about the US' role in the world. Less bombs and more trying solve issues without 'em. Now, I'm going to get that drink you bought me! And thank you!
BS: Chicago, Baltimore and Cleveland are liberal towns. No conservative policies there. The only people mocking them for being poor are the liberals who keep them poor. Own. It.
Edit- damn broken quotes ruin everything.
Such an intellectually stimulating comeback. What's the matter? Prager University didn't have a five minute video to link to?
Perhaps you'd like to discuss all the conservative policies that have helped members of these communities? Maybe even how reaganomics and trickle down has lead to their pulling themselves up by their bootstraps? Sure would like to know what, if anything the republican governor of Ohio has done. Or maybe the republican congress and their aid to cities and towns or extension of unemployment benefits during the recession? Or maybe the boost in education or head start spending the conservatives voted for? Or maybe how conservatives want to invest in the inner city? But then again, you prefer the Yemenis and Iraqis be the beneficiary of our largess.
americans are responsible for the pain in suffering and poverty and death in their own country. how about we start fixing that first.
I'm not opposed to seeing what's happening in our own backyard and working on fixing some of what is broken(as long as we aren't just throwing more wasteful entitlements around).but you still can't ignore our interests around the globe.Unfortunatly they all tie together.
But rr, what are our interests around the globe? International cooperation, mutual exchange of cultures and working for the common good? Or control, power, and appropriation of resources? And which of those is ultimately better for everyone?
Brian,If we want to help those here at home we are going to need to do it not just with Govt but with the benevolence of the private sector.Not just charities and orginazations but Also wealthy individuals and buisness charities(think Ronald McDonald House,Bill Gates charities,etc). It is crucial that we protect our interests from a financial perspective,in order to continue the work we need to do at home. We can't say Fuck it and let other economies and Markets take big hits and losses hits without feeling it's butterfly effect here.Even the ones some think are evil(oil,resources) must be kept stable to not offset our markets here.
I know it dosent fit into the utopian vision of peace love and help ,but you can't have the utopia and help the helpless without it.As strong as we are as a union we have an obligation to reach beyond our borders to also help.
For example ,Yes we have drought here,but should we not try to also bring clean water to remote areas of Africa?Or should we not respond to Enviormental or Natural issues because we have them also at home.
And yes the big bad military machine is also needed worldwide to keep transport ,rail and air and shipping lanes free and clear of pirates and those who want to stop the free flow of commerce goods and services.Its our job to help police the worlds idiots who want to do no good stuff with Nuclear items not just weapons but waste.
We have good allies all over who maybe couldn't stand up to bigger,stronger regimes.We can't let them be bullied.It will hurt us domestically in the long run. And we cannot just sit by while non state actors continue to try to force there perversions onto innocent people.Letting them take over countries and gain power is not the right thing to do.Regardless of who gave them power to begin with.
Say what? Are you serious?
Of course.Whats your issue?
Interesting that you selected Ronald McDonald House, a charity for families with sick kids enduring long stays in hospitals and the wealthy individual Bill Gates. Why not the Koch Brothers, Sheldon Adleson or any number of wealthy conservative donors? The upcoming presidential election is going to cost each side close to one billion. Imagine what that kind of money could do, in say, I don’t know, Baltimore or Liberia? So, US military intervention is to be used to keep the stock market stable, regardless of which stock market it is and where its located?
I guess you’d be in favor of increasing the US contributions to the UN? If not, why? What transport, rail, air and shipping lanes are you referring to? Somalia has pirates. Should we invade Somalia? The Straight of Hormuz, the Straight of Malacca and the Panama and Suez Canals are patrolled and protected by the US but that doesn’t mean we need to invade Malaysia, Iran or Syria or re-invade Iraq. Would you be in favor of returning to a 90% top corporate tax rate? That’s what it was in the 1950s and early 60s when the US was doing good all over the world (subjective). All of these things cost money and you can’t not pay for it. Its one thing to protect the free flow of goods and services and quite another to actively meddle in another country’s internal affairs, invade or intimidate another country for economic reasons, like what the US did for Dole, Chiquita and Good Year. Why is “welfare” good overseas but not at home? And if your reference of “perversions” refers to the Islamic State, why not let the Saudi’s, Iranians, Kuwaitis, et al deal with it? Or Canada, China or the Europeans? Why is it always the US policing the world? 70 years of US meddling in the Middle East and what do we have to show for it?
Where to start? Im not sure how you pulled all that out of my post? I didn't advocate for any invasion.And I'm not sure what your trying to say.I was simply saying that you just can't say fuck it ,we need to focus on the poor here at home and turn a blind eye to world affairs.Its all intertwined.are you really manufacturing an argument here?
No we should not return to higher corporate rates,but I didn't bring up taxation. I didn't bring up the Koch brothers because I thought 2 examples was enough to make my point. I mentioned nothing about meddling in other countries affairs,I'm talking about about helping and supporting. And I have plenty of problems with human rights and personal freedom restrictions in the Middle East.But that's not what we are discussing.Why bring that up when you know damn well I was referencing IS and how they are perverting a peaceful religion. Read it next time!
Funny, I did read it. How much more does the US have to do abroad. If we don't take care of shit closer to home, we'll collapse from within. And the Koch brothers would rather buy an election(s) than help the meek overseas. Why shouldn't the inhabitants of the Middle East deal with their issues? No need to get pissy about it.
I had a shitty day,did not mean to project it toward you.I apologize for that.I need a beer,a shower and a bowl.I will leave word with the barkeep in the lounge for you to put a top shelf beverage of your choice on my tab.
But,
It seems the rhetoric in these threads runs along the same path over and over regardless of issue.Like a big liberal circle jerk.I get that ,and it comes with territory here.
There is room for other schools of thought.Not every answer is that The USA is bad,Republicans are Bad,Corparations are bad,Money is evil,We started every problem in the world.Blah,blah,blah. Sometimes it's ok to explore some of the other angles and opinions to the same issues. Not all of us are partisan and stuck in a myopic view of every issue.Not talking about you personally,but just saying.
The only thing I prefer is results and be it Chicago, Baltimore, Cleveland, Iraq and/or Yemen the post-JFK "liberal" track record is always the same....lack of security, poor business opportunity, reduced education quality, poverty and racial strife.
The democratic party is living in the 60's and on economic policy it is being soundly rejected on the state and local level. There is a reason why the majority of governors and state houses are overwhelmingly republican right now. The only answer liberals have for the problems in society is "more money!". That is essentially the essence of your whole post...if only we invested on A or spent more money on B! Since the war on poverty you have spent and spent and spent with only worsening results. Obama and the democratic congress passed a massive stimulus in his first term with absolutely zero to show for it. The economy has just contracted in the first quarter! At some point you have to open your eyes and recognize that what you are constantly calling for is not working! But no....Just this morning we find Democratic Governor Malloy of Connecticut passing a massive tax increase that has forced major corporation such as GE, Aetnas and Travelers to consider leaving the state. Connecticut has chosen to go the way of Illinois instead of Texas and the lower/middle class people of that state will suffer the most for it. So I repeat...Chicago (or Chiraq as Spike Lee calls it), Baltimore, Cleveland are the product of liberal policies. In about 10 years you'll be able to add Hartford to the list.
BS drop the dem repug thing and discuss points made.
BS,is not off base here. While there are certainly some left based policies I get behind and support,I agree some of your more liberal run cities are a mess.Baltimore is a great example.And getting worse due to its leadership(lack of). Who really benefits when we tax the shit out of buisnesses big or small? What are we doing with the increase in revenue collected? Shit I wouldn't have a problem with paying more taxes if I knew the clowns appropriating the funds weren't going to waste it on some nonsense.
americans are responsible for the pain in suffering and poverty and death in their own country. how about we start fixing that first.
I'm not opposed to seeing what's happening in our own backyard and working on fixing some of what is broken(as long as we aren't just throwing more wasteful entitlements around).but you still can't ignore our interests around the globe.Unfortunatly they all tie together.
But rr, what are our interests around the globe? International cooperation, mutual exchange of cultures and working for the common good? Or control, power, and appropriation of resources? And which of those is ultimately better for everyone?
Brian,If we want to help those here at home we are going to need to do it not just with Govt but with the benevolence of the private sector.Not just charities and orginazations but Also wealthy individuals and buisness charities(think Ronald McDonald House,Bill Gates charities,etc). It is crucial that we protect our interests from a financial perspective,in order to continue the work we need to do at home. We can't say Fuck it and let other economies and Markets take big hits and losses hits without feeling it's butterfly effect here.Even the ones some think are evil(oil,resources) must be kept stable to not offset our markets here.
I know it dosent fit into the utopian vision of peace love and help ,but you can't have the utopia and help the helpless without it.As strong as we are as a union we have an obligation to reach beyond our borders to also help.
For example ,Yes we have drought here,but should we not try to also bring clean water to remote areas of Africa?Or should we not respond to Enviormental or Natural issues because we have them also at home.
And yes the big bad military machine is also needed worldwide to keep transport ,rail and air and shipping lanes free and clear of pirates and those who want to stop the free flow of commerce goods and services.Its our job to help police the worlds idiots who want to do no good stuff with Nuclear items not just weapons but waste.
We have good allies all over who maybe couldn't stand up to bigger,stronger regimes.We can't let them be bullied.It will hurt us domestically in the long run. And we cannot just sit by while non state actors continue to try to force there perversions onto innocent people.Letting them take over countries and gain power is not the right thing to do.Regardless of who gave them power to begin with.
Say what? Are you serious?
Of course.Whats your issue?
Interesting that you selected Ronald McDonald House, a charity for families with sick kids enduring long stays in hospitals and the wealthy individual Bill Gates. Why not the Koch Brothers, Sheldon Adleson or any number of wealthy conservative donors? The upcoming presidential election is going to cost each side close to one billion. Imagine what that kind of money could do, in say, I don’t know, Baltimore or Liberia? So, US military intervention is to be used to keep the stock market stable, regardless of which stock market it is and where its located?
I guess you’d be in favor of increasing the US contributions to the UN? If not, why? What transport, rail, air and shipping lanes are you referring to? Somalia has pirates. Should we invade Somalia? The Straight of Hormuz, the Straight of Malacca and the Panama and Suez Canals are patrolled and protected by the US but that doesn’t mean we need to invade Malaysia, Iran or Syria or re-invade Iraq. Would you be in favor of returning to a 90% top corporate tax rate? That’s what it was in the 1950s and early 60s when the US was doing good all over the world (subjective). All of these things cost money and you can’t not pay for it. Its one thing to protect the free flow of goods and services and quite another to actively meddle in another country’s internal affairs, invade or intimidate another country for economic reasons, like what the US did for Dole, Chiquita and Good Year. Why is “welfare” good overseas but not at home? And if your reference of “perversions” refers to the Islamic State, why not let the Saudi’s, Iranians, Kuwaitis, et al deal with it? Or Canada, China or the Europeans? Why is it always the US policing the world? 70 years of US meddling in the Middle East and what do we have to show for it?
Where to start? Im not sure how you pulled all that out of my post? I didn't advocate for any invasion.And I'm not sure what your trying to say.I was simply saying that you just can't say fuck it ,we need to focus on the poor here at home and turn a blind eye to world affairs.Its all intertwined.are you really manufacturing an argument here?
No we should not return to higher corporate rates,but I didn't bring up taxation. I didn't bring up the Koch brothers because I thought 2 examples was enough to make my point. I mentioned nothing about meddling in other countries affairs,I'm talking about about helping and supporting. And I have plenty of problems with human rights and personal freedom restrictions in the Middle East.But that's not what we are discussing.Why bring that up when you know damn well I was referencing IS and how they are perverting a peaceful religion. Read it next time!
Funny, I did read it. How much more does the US have to do abroad. If we don't take care of shit closer to home, we'll collapse from within. And the Koch brothers would rather buy an election(s) than help the meek overseas. Why shouldn't the inhabitants of the Middle East deal with their issues? No need to get pissy about it.
I had a shitty day,did not mean to project it toward you.I apologize for that.I need a beer,a shower and a bowl.I will leave word with the barkeep in the lounge for you to put a top shelf beverage of your choice on my tab.
But,
It seems the rhetoric in these threads runs along the same path over and over regardless of issue.Like a big liberal circle jerk.I get that ,and it comes with territory here.
There is room for other schools of thought.Not every answer is that The USA is bad,Republicans are Bad,Corparations are bad,Money is evil,We started every problem in the world.Blah,blah,blah. Sometimes it's ok to explore some of the other angles and opinions to the same issues. Not all of us are partisan and stuck in a myopic view of every issue.Not talking about you personally,but just saying.
The only thing I prefer is results and be it Chicago, Baltimore, Cleveland, Iraq and/or Yemen the post-JFK "liberal" track record is always the same....lack of security, poor business opportunity, reduced education quality, poverty and racial strife.
The democratic party is living in the 60's and on economic policy it is being soundly rejected on the state and local level. There is a reason why the majority of governors and state houses are overwhelmingly republican right now. The only answer liberals have for the problems in society is "more money!". That is essentially the essence of your whole post...if only we invested on A or spent more money on B! Since the war on poverty you have spent and spent and spent with only worsening results. Obama and the democratic congress passed a massive stimulus in his first term with absolutely zero to show for it. The economy has just contracted in the first quarter! At some point you have to open your eyes and recognize that what you are constantly calling for is not working! But no....Just this morning we find Democratic Governor Malloy of Connecticut passing a massive tax increase that has forced major corporation such as GE, Aetnas and Travelers to consider leaving the state. Connecticut has chosen to go the way of Illinois instead of Texas and the lower/middle class people of that state will suffer the most for it. So I repeat...Chicago (or Chiraq as Spike Lee calls it), Baltimore, Cleveland are the product of liberal policies. In about 10 years you'll be able to add Hartford to the list.
Wasn't it a republican who bankrupted California?
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,757
rr and BS, you guys are on a whole different subject here. You've figured out that no one is supporting the notion that we should still be fighting a bogus war so now you've moved on to making generalized statements about who and what democrats and liberal are all about. Interesting.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
rr and BS, you guys are on a whole different subject here. You've figured out that no one is supporting the notion that we should still be fighting a bogus war so now you've moved on to making generalized statements about who and what democrats and liberal are all about. Interesting.
B-Lux - D-Lux,First I don't care If anyone is supporting something I say,It's an opinion,that is all.Some of my thoughts work out for general population thinking here,some don't.I don't expect or want to always fall into one way of thinking.You know By now where I stand On things.
I commented on Cals response to BS.
Dude (BS) gets grilled on these forms.Sometimes he deserves it like we all do ,but many times he dosent and has some good takes on things. But if I agree with his statements or a perspective I am going to say so.These convos twist and turn all the time.Indont get Why people keep fabricating things I supposedly said?
I am not debating fighting a Bogus war.Where you getting that?I Just reread my last few posts.Not seeing it.
As an independent I feel I can cherry pick from both sides of the isle.Critique is warranted On All our "leaders and Lawmakers" regardless of party.And generalized statements get thrown around on these boards all the time.But most of time it's directed at Republicans,conservatives,And those who don't fall lock step in with the masses.its a 2 way street right?And it's all good.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,757
rr and BS, you guys are on a whole different subject here. You've figured out that no one is supporting the notion that we should still be fighting a bogus war so now you've moved on to making generalized statements about who and what democrats and liberal are all about. Interesting.
B-Lux - D-Lux,First I don't care If anyone is supporting something I say,It's an opinion,that is all.Some of my thoughts work out for general population thinking here,some don't.I don't expect or want to always fall into one way of thinking.You know By now where I stand On things.
I commented on Cals response to BS.
Dude (BS) gets grilled on these forms.Sometimes he deserves it like we all do ,but many times he dosent and has some good takes on things. But if I agree with his statements or a perspective I am going to say so.These convos twist and turn all the time.Indont get Why people keep fabricating things I supposedly said?
I am not debating fighting a Bogus war.Where you getting that?I Just reread my last few posts.Not seeing it.
As an independent I feel I can cherry pick from both sides of the isle.Critique is warranted On All our "leaders and Lawmakers" regardless of party.And generalized statements get thrown around on these boards all the time.But most of time it's directed at Republicans,conservatives,And those who don't fall lock step in with the masses.its a 2 way street right?And it's all good.
No worries, rr. Show me a thread on which we haven't deveated on to some degree and I'll show you... well shit, nada! Haha! Just keeping us on our toes.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
rr and BS, you guys are on a whole different subject here. You've figured out that no one is supporting the notion that we should still be fighting a bogus war so now you've moved on to making generalized statements about who and what democrats and liberal are all about. Interesting.
B-Lux - D-Lux,First I don't care If anyone is supporting something I say,It's an opinion,that is all.Some of my thoughts work out for general population thinking here,some don't.I don't expect or want to always fall into one way of thinking.You know By now where I stand On things.
I commented on Cals response to BS.
Dude (BS) gets grilled on these forms.Sometimes he deserves it like we all do ,but many times he dosent and has some good takes on things. But if I agree with his statements or a perspective I am going to say so.These convos twist and turn all the time.Indont get Why people keep fabricating things I supposedly said?
I am not debating fighting a Bogus war.Where you getting that?I Just reread my last few posts.Not seeing it.
As an independent I feel I can cherry pick from both sides of the isle.Critique is warranted On All our "leaders and Lawmakers" regardless of party.And generalized statements get thrown around on these boards all the time.But most of time it's directed at Republicans,conservatives,And those who don't fall lock step in with the masses.its a 2 way street right?And it's all good.
RR...
Sometimes I think people wish for all to take their place in what PJ Soul referred to as the 'circle jerk' here on the MT.
The unpopular opinion should be welcome to those wishing to engage in meaningful discourse because there cannot be meaningful discourse without conflicting viewpoints; however, lately those offering the unpopular opinion seem to quickly become the unpopular person.
Many simply refrain from posting here for their tendency to go against the grain. In many cases, it seems as if they are chased from these boards. It sucks that this is so.
And no... this is not a veiled shot at Brian. It is a general observation regarding the tone or atmosphere of this forum in recent months (I likely have as much to do with this as anyone).
"My brain's a good brain!"
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,757
Not taken as such, Thirty B's but thanks for verifying.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
rr and BS, you guys are on a whole different subject here. You've figured out that no one is supporting the notion that we should still be fighting a bogus war so now you've moved on to making generalized statements about who and what democrats and liberal are all about. Interesting.
This is ridiculous. Halifax brought up conservative policies in liberal cities. I am responding to that point. By no means is that a dodge of the topic at hand.
Speaking of the topic at hand...CNN released a poll today that now shows more Americans blame Obama than Bush for the current state of affairs in Iraq. The withdrawal has been a disaster whether you think the war was bogus or not.
rr and BS, you guys are on a whole different subject here. You've figured out that no one is supporting the notion that we should still be fighting a bogus war so now you've moved on to making generalized statements about who and what democrats and liberal are all about. Interesting.
This is ridiculous. Halifax brought up conservative policies in liberal cities. I am responding to that point. By no means is that a dodge of the topic at hand.
Speaking of the topic at hand...CNN released a poll today that now shows more Americans blame Obama than Bush for the current state of affairs in Iraq. The withdrawal has been a disaster whether you think the war was bogus or not.
Comments
I guess you’d be in favor of increasing the US contributions to the UN? If not, why? What transport, rail, air and shipping lanes are you referring to? Somalia has pirates. Should we invade Somalia? The Straight of Hormuz, the Straight of Malacca and the Panama and Suez Canals are patrolled and protected by the US but that doesn’t mean we need to invade Malaysia, Iran or Syria or re-invade Iraq. Would you be in favor of returning to a 90% top corporate tax rate? That’s what it was in the 1950s and early 60s when the US was doing good all over the world (subjective). All of these things cost money and you can’t not pay for it. Its one thing to protect the free flow of goods and services and quite another to actively meddle in another country’s internal affairs, invade or intimidate another country for economic reasons, like what the US did for Dole, Chiquita and Good Year. Why is “welfare” good overseas but not at home? And if your reference of “perversions” refers to the Islamic State, why not let the Saudi’s, Iranians, Kuwaitis, et al deal with it? Or Canada, China or the Europeans? Why is it always the US policing the world? 70 years of US meddling in the Middle East and what do we have to show for it?
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
No we should not return to higher corporate rates,but I didn't bring up taxation.
I didn't bring up the Koch brothers because I thought 2 examples was enough to make my point.
I mentioned nothing about meddling in other countries affairs,I'm talking about about helping and supporting.
And I have plenty of problems with human rights and personal freedom restrictions in the Middle East.But that's not what we are discussing.Why bring that up when you know damn well I was referencing IS and how they are perverting a peaceful religion.
Read it next time!
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
But,
It seems the rhetoric in these threads runs along the same path over and over regardless of issue.Like a big liberal circle jerk.I get that ,and it comes with territory here.
There is room for other schools of thought.Not every answer is that The USA is bad,Republicans are Bad,Corparations are bad,Money is evil,We started every problem in the world.Blah,blah,blah.
Sometimes it's ok to explore some of the other angles and opinions to the same issues.
Not all of us are partisan and stuck in a myopic view of every issue.Not talking about you personally,but just saying.
But,
It seems the rhetoric in these threads runs along the same path over and over regardless of issue.Like a big liberal circle jerk.I get that ,and it comes with territory here.
There is room for other schools of thought.Not every answer is that The USA is bad,Republicans are Bad,Corparations are bad,Money is evil,We started every problem in the world.Blah,blah,blah.
Sometimes it's ok to explore some of the other angles and opinions to the same issues.
Not all of us are partisan and stuck in a myopic view of every issue.Not talking about you personally,but just saying.
I'll accept your offer and chase it with a shot. But the same could be said about it being a conservative circle jerk. Liberalism isn't a bad word. Particularly where we've seen what the conservatives have done to the environment, women's rights, privacy and the creation of a police state and "corporations are people too.," never mind Iraq. Meanwhile black residents and the poor of Chicago and Baltimore and Cleveland and other places go without their needs being met and are mocked for being poor. I get it, it's okay for one side to pronounce how great they are viewing most things through a distorted lense of history and god or Allah or whoever forbid you question them on it. Remember, "if your not with us, you're with the terrorists" and "our number one job is to see this president fail." Frankly, I'm sick of the hypocrisy and the double standard.
Who's bar tending? I'll tip them well. And not directed at you personally, just a blanket statement about the US' role in the world. Less bombs and more trying solve issues without 'em. Now, I'm going to get that drink you bought me! And thank you!
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
I want to go on record as saying I never 'justified' a humanitarian effort: I posed the question as to whether or not one was needed and cited the failures in Rwanda as a framework for posing the question. Discussion was my motivation.
You are correct that the Rwanda crisis is not crystal clear. I have read multiple accounts that are critical of Dallaire, but to be honest... I'm skeptical of them. The factions typically trying to discredit Dallaire were, in many cases, often also trying to defend their actions (or inactions)- in particular, the Belgian government who were busy addressing their own critics when they vacated the country after losing their soldiers.
Philip Gourevitch's book was another excellent account of the genocide and it independently supports Dallaire's account of how things unfolded through his research. Much of my formulated opinions have stemmed from this book.
The one point in the previously posted material you presented I would like to address is the fact that the US stalled the UN on various items and handcuffed the peacekeeping mission. The US experience in Somalia was typically accepted for their reluctance, but deeper theories do exist.
Chicago, Baltimore and Cleveland are liberal towns. No conservative policies there. The only people mocking them for being poor are the liberals who keep them poor. Own. It.
Edit- damn broken quotes ruin everything.
I'm not opposed to seeing what's happening in our own backyard and working on fixing some of what is broken(as long as we aren't just throwing more wasteful entitlements around).but you still can't ignore our interests around the globe.Unfortunatly they all tie together.
Brian,If we want to help those here at home we are going to need to do it not just with Govt but with the benevolence of the private sector.Not just charities and orginazations but Also wealthy individuals and buisness charities(think Ronald McDonald House,Bill Gates charities,etc).
It is crucial that we protect our interests from a financial perspective,in order to continue the work we need to do at home.
We can't say Fuck it and let other economies and Markets take big hits and losses hits without feeling it's butterfly effect here.Even the ones some think are evil(oil,resources) must be kept stable to not offset our markets here.
I know it dosent fit into the utopian vision of peace love and help ,but you can't have the utopia and help the helpless without it.As strong as we are as a union we have an obligation to reach beyond our borders to also help.
For example ,Yes we have drought here,but should we not try to also bring clean water to remote areas of Africa?Or should we not respond to Enviormental or Natural issues because we have them also at home.
And yes the big bad military machine is also needed worldwide to keep transport ,rail and air and shipping lanes free and clear of pirates and those who want to stop the free flow of commerce goods and services.Its our job to help police the worlds idiots who want to do no good stuff with Nuclear items not just weapons but waste.
We have good allies all over who maybe couldn't stand up to bigger,stronger regimes.We can't let them be bullied.It will hurt us domestically in the long run.
And we cannot just sit by while non state actors continue to try to force there perversions onto innocent people.Letting them take over countries and gain power is not the right thing to do.Regardless of who gave them power to begin with.
Say what? Are you serious?
Of course.Whats your issue?
Interesting that you selected Ronald McDonald House, a charity for families with sick kids enduring long stays in hospitals and the wealthy individual Bill Gates. Why not the Koch Brothers, Sheldon Adleson or any number of wealthy conservative donors? The upcoming presidential election is going to cost each side close to one billion. Imagine what that kind of money could do, in say, I don’t know, Baltimore or Liberia? So, US military intervention is to be used to keep the stock market stable, regardless of which stock market it is and where its located?
I guess you’d be in favor of increasing the US contributions to the UN? If not, why? What transport, rail, air and shipping lanes are you referring to? Somalia has pirates. Should we invade Somalia? The Straight of Hormuz, the Straight of Malacca and the Panama and Suez Canals are patrolled and protected by the US but that doesn’t mean we need to invade Malaysia, Iran or Syria or re-invade Iraq. Would you be in favor of returning to a 90% top corporate tax rate? That’s what it was in the 1950s and early 60s when the US was doing good all over the world (subjective). All of these things cost money and you can’t not pay for it. Its one thing to protect the free flow of goods and services and quite another to actively meddle in another country’s internal affairs, invade or intimidate another country for economic reasons, like what the US did for Dole, Chiquita and Good Year. Why is “welfare” good overseas but not at home? And if your reference of “perversions” refers to the Islamic State, why not let the Saudi’s, Iranians, Kuwaitis, et al deal with it? Or Canada, China or the Europeans? Why is it always the US policing the world? 70 years of US meddling in the Middle East and what do we have to show for it?
Where to start? Im not sure how you pulled all that out of my post? I didn't advocate for any invasion.And I'm not sure what your trying to say.I was simply saying that you just can't say fuck it ,we need to focus on the poor here at home and turn a blind eye to world affairs.Its all intertwined.are you really manufacturing an argument here?
No we should not return to higher corporate rates,but I didn't bring up taxation.
I didn't bring up the Koch brothers because I thought 2 examples was enough to make my point.
I mentioned nothing about meddling in other countries affairs,I'm talking about about helping and supporting.
And I have plenty of problems with human rights and personal freedom restrictions in the Middle East.But that's not what we are discussing.Why bring that up when you know damn well I was referencing IS and how they are perverting a peaceful religion.
Read it next time!
Funny, I did read it. How much more does the US have to do abroad. If we don't take care of shit closer to home, we'll collapse from within. And the Koch brothers would rather buy an election(s) than help the meek overseas. Why shouldn't the inhabitants of the Middle East deal with their issues? No need to get pissy about it.
I had a shitty day,did not mean to project it toward you.I apologize for that.I need a beer,a shower and a bowl.I will leave word with the barkeep in the lounge for you to put a top shelf beverage of your choice on my tab.
But,
It seems the rhetoric in these threads runs along the same path over and over regardless of issue.Like a big liberal circle jerk.I get that ,and it comes with territory here.
There is room for other schools of thought.Not every answer is that The USA is bad,Republicans are Bad,Corparations are bad,Money is evil,We started every problem in the world.Blah,blah,blah.
Sometimes it's ok to explore some of the other angles and opinions to the same issues.
Not all of us are partisan and stuck in a myopic view of every issue.Not talking about you personally,but just saying.
I'll accept your offer and chase it with a shot. But the same could be said about it being a conservative circle jerk. Liberalism isn't a bad word. Particularly where we've seen what the conservatives have done to the environment, women's rights, privacy and the creation of a police state and "corporations are people too.," never mind Iraq. Meanwhile black residents and the poor of Chicago and Baltimore and Cleveland and other places go without their needs being met and are mocked for being poor. I get it, it's okay for one side to pronounce how great they are viewing most things through a distorted lense of history and god or Allah or whoever forbid you question them on it. Remember, "if your not with us, you're with the terrorists" and "our number one job is to see this president fail." Frankly, I'm sick of the hypocrisy and the double standard.
Who's bar tending? I'll tip them well. And not directed at you personally, just a blanket statement about the US' role in the world. Less bombs and more trying solve issues without 'em. Now, I'm going to get that drink you bought me! And thank you!
BS:
Chicago, Baltimore and Cleveland are liberal towns. No conservative policies there. The only people mocking them for being poor are the liberals who keep them poor. Own. It.
Edit- damn broken quotes ruin everything.
Such an intellectually stimulating comeback. What's the matter? Prager University didn't have a five minute video to link to?
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
The democratic party is living in the 60's and on economic policy it is being soundly rejected on the state and local level. There is a reason why the majority of governors and state houses are overwhelmingly republican right now. The only answer liberals have for the problems in society is "more money!". That is essentially the essence of your whole post...if only we invested on A or spent more money on B! Since the war on poverty you have spent and spent and spent with only worsening results. Obama and the democratic congress passed a massive stimulus in his first term with absolutely zero to show for it. The economy has just contracted in the first quarter! At some point you have to open your eyes and recognize that what you are constantly calling for is not working! But no....Just this morning we find Democratic Governor Malloy of Connecticut passing a massive tax increase that has forced major corporation such as GE, Aetnas and Travelers to consider leaving the state. Connecticut has chosen to go the way of Illinois instead of Texas and the lower/middle class people of that state will suffer the most for it. So I repeat...Chicago (or Chiraq as Spike Lee calls it), Baltimore, Cleveland are the product of liberal policies. In about 10 years you'll be able to add Hartford to the list.
While there are certainly some left based policies I get behind and support,I agree some of your more liberal run cities are a mess.Baltimore is a great example.And getting worse due to its leadership(lack of).
Who really benefits when we tax the shit out of buisnesses big or small? What are we doing with the increase in revenue collected?
Shit I wouldn't have a problem with paying more taxes if I knew the clowns appropriating the funds weren't going to waste it on some nonsense.
I commented on Cals response to BS.
Dude (BS) gets grilled on these forms.Sometimes he deserves it like we all do ,but many times he dosent and has some good takes on things.
But if I agree with his statements or a perspective I am going to say so.These convos twist and turn all the time.Indont get Why people keep fabricating things I supposedly said?
I am not debating fighting a Bogus war.Where you getting that?I Just reread my last few posts.Not seeing it.
As an independent I feel I can cherry pick from both sides of the isle.Critique is warranted On All our "leaders and Lawmakers" regardless of party.And generalized statements get thrown around on these boards all the time.But most of time it's directed at Republicans,conservatives,And those who don't fall lock step in with the masses.its a 2 way street right?And it's all good.
Sometimes I think people wish for all to take their place in what PJ Soul referred to as the 'circle jerk' here on the MT.
The unpopular opinion should be welcome to those wishing to engage in meaningful discourse because there cannot be meaningful discourse without conflicting viewpoints; however, lately those offering the unpopular opinion seem to quickly become the unpopular person.
Many simply refrain from posting here for their tendency to go against the grain. In many cases, it seems as if they are chased from these boards. It sucks that this is so.
And no... this is not a veiled shot at Brian. It is a general observation regarding the tone or atmosphere of this forum in recent months (I likely have as much to do with this as anyone).
Speaking of the topic at hand...CNN released a poll today that now shows more Americans blame Obama than Bush for the current state of affairs in Iraq. The withdrawal has been a disaster whether you think the war was bogus or not.
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/06/01/politics/isis-campaign-poll-iraq-war/index.html