"My 12 Years of Support for the Troops "
Before I post my more general thoughts later today or tomorrow about the ruckus of the past week regarding the response to my heartfelt comment on twitter about my uncle who was killed in World War II by a sniper - and how I was taught to despise snipers of any stripe - I would like to address this one insane mantra that the right-wing has twisted my tweet into: "Michael Moore hates the troops."
Well, who would know better about hating our troops than those who supported sending them into a senseless war Iraq in the first place?
And, for 4,482 of them, a senseless, unnecessary and regrettable death.
If you supported that invasion, if you voted for George W. Bush and the Republicans and Democrats who backed this war, then you are the ones who have some 'splainin' to do. Not me. You.
Because only "haters" of our brave young men and women would recklessly send them into harm's way for something that had absolutely nothing to do with defending the United States of America. Nothing. Nothing to do with 9/11. Nothing. In fact, WE, the USA, were the ones who provided Saddam with his weapons in the 1980s that he used against the Kurds. We wanted him to use them against the Iranians, but you hand a crazy guy crazy weapons, something crazy is probably going to happen. Ask Osama bin Laden about that -- what he did with the crazy training, crazy money and crazy weapons that WE gave him. Oh wait. You can't ask him. Because the new president took him out. No 150,000 troop invasion necessary. Just 12 or so Navy SEALS and two and a half choppers.
Here's the truth they can't or won't report: I'M the one who has supported these troops - much more than the bloviators on Fox News. To prove it (and I know this is going to crush some of you out there), here's just a partial list of all the things I do and have done for those men and women who serve -- and I guarantee you, you've never heard any of this reported about what the real me does because, frankly, it messes up their little story of the fictional "Michael Moore" they've created for your hate and enjoyment (please feel free to cut, paste and send this to your conservative brother-in-law):
** I have an aggressive affirmative action policy specifically to hire Iraq and Afghanistan veterans at my film production company, my movie theaters in Michigan and my film festival. I have asked other businesses in my town (and nationwide) to join with me on this. http://www.traverseticker.com/…/michael-moore-asks-business… . A vet was an editor on my films "Fahrenheit 9/11" and "Sicko" and a vet (who served in both Iraq AND Afghanistan) is the projectionist at my flagship theater in Michigan (to name a few).
** I also ask people to post a sign I designed and have made available: "I Shop Where Vets Work". Here's my policy and the poster: http://www.statetheatretc.org/veterans#opening (Can someone at Fox News send me your posted affirmative action program to hire Iraq and Afghanistan vets?)
** Since I opened my movie theaters in northern Michigan, this has been my admission policy: "Admission to all movies at my theaters is FREE, 365 days of the year, for ALL active duty military and their families."
** I allow local veterans support groups to use my theater to meet for PTSD issues, I host quarterly PTSD summits, and I've hosted a conference to start a jobs movement for vets in our town.
** I have raised tens of thousands of dollars through my website for groups that help veterans and wounded warriors: http://web.archive.org/…/20140829053240/http://fa…/soldiers/
** In the early years of the war I made all my books and DVDs available free of charge to all service members through BooksForSoldiers.com
** I produced and hosted a benefit for military families at the House of Blues that received national attention to their plight (raw clips here from the AP: )
** I will NOT do business with vendors who don't have a policy to hire vets.
** I gave voice to the troops who weren't being heard by publishing a book of their letters from the front lines in "Will They Every Trust Us Again?" (NY Times bestseller for 4 weeks)
** I regularly post blogs from troops http://www.ivaw.org/blog/ivaw-featured-michael-moore and I show and support many movies about what they've gone through in the past 12 years at my theaters.
** I took vets, soldiers and their families on a 60-city tour of the country so their concerns could be heard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wm3IsgoBNc0
** I helped Iraq Vets against the War with "Operation Recovery" http://www.ivaw.org/operation-recovery and http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…/how-bout-dinner-just-you_b_…
** My movie, "Fahrenheit 9/11" - #1 selling/#1 rental on all military base PXs
** My books were the #1 requested books by troops from the nonprofit BooksForSoldiers.com
** I sit on the Advisory Board of the Pvt. Bradley (Chelsea) Manning Support Network
** From the Dept. of Irony: I only hire Navy SEALS and ex-special forces for when I need security - such as this week, when so-called supporters of those SEALs want me harmed.
** When my father passed away this year, in lieu of flowers I asked that donations by made in my dad's name to the veterans group, Veterans for Peace. Enough money was raised so that the Vietnam Vets chapter could build a home in Vietnam for a family still suffering from the effects of Agent Orange. It's being dedicated in my dad's name.
** I am currently showing "American Sniper" at my theater that I helped restore and that I program and help run in Manistee, MI. Not because I like it, but because, unlike the other side, I'm not a censor. I trust smart people and people of good heart will know what to do. You can't have a conversation about what Clint Eastwood is up to if you haven't seen what it is he's up to. And regardless where u are on the political spectrum, you'll see that every character in Clint's film comes out dead or permanently damaged. This ain't no John Wayne rah-rah pablum. Eastwood made maybe the greatest western ever - "Unforgiven" - but now it's sad seeing him talking to an empty chair on a stage or making an Iraq movie that Rolling Stone this week called, "too dumb to bother criticizing."
In the end, the thing I'm most proud of for what I've done for the troops was sticking my neck out 12 years ago to become a leading opponent to Bush and the war. I tried to save more lives than a sniper ever could hope to -- by preventing us from going to war in the first place. Well, I failed at that. But I've done everything else humanly possible to try and make it up to those troops when they return home -- that is, the ones lucky enough to return home. So, Fox News and the other lazy media -- quit making shit up about me! You look ridiculous. If you want to have a debate with me about the ISSUES and the POLICIES, then let's have it. If you want to debate a movie that's trying to rewrite history, then let's have that. But when you hide behind falsehoods and then use them to try and manipulate the public, then all you are is afraid. Afraid of me, an unarmed American, and the truth I bring along as my sidekick. Only cowards have to lie. Be brave. Report the truth. It will feel good.
I bolded the last bit, because it's why I like Moore. He has nothing to hide and he welcomes open discussion in having a differing public opinion regardless of the backlash from the American public and the accusatory media of anything that doesn't represent the fear, justness and judgment of status quo America.
I welcome open discussion too. Curious if he differentiates between vets and snipers.
I'm also curious if specifically naming Fox News is to sway. Surely they can't be the only news outlet to have spoken about Moore?
Cynicism doesn't often play a part in my life, but it's doing so here.
I'm sure there are haters from the others as well. …Haters gonna hate, regardless of where they come from, but the biggest haters are Fox News hands down. They induce the biggest judgment, biggest fear, biggest liars in the entire news industry.
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
Again, it serves to get people heated up, plays on emotions. Name the other lazy outlets too, dammit!
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,840
It's amazing to me that certain factions still make claims or even insinuate that those who are anti-war, who criticize wars or particular acts of war or war related incidents are against the troops. Being anti-war does not make a person anti-troops.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
It's amazing to me that certain factions still make claims or even insinuate that those who are anti-war, who criticize wars or particular acts of war or war related incidents are against the troops. Being anti-war does not make a person anti-troops.
The way Fox News and basically status quo mainstream America does it is that "you're either for us or against us". That came from Bush. If you're not 100% on "our side" then you're 100% "against" our side. That all started with him and now the culture of living here has that stigma. Don't speak out unless you're prepared to get ripped apart… like Moore.
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
And I will say again, I whole-heartedly support Moore in speaking his mind. He's no lower or higher than you or I simply because he's made films and uses social media. And, like you or I, he too is subject to be questioned (not ripped apart) for those views.
edit - saw you revised your post after my response.
Fox News is in their completely own league when it comes to news outlets.
I think fox behind the scenes (producers if you will) are very smart. The anchors are just the talking puppet.
It took me years to tolerate listening to any anchor on fox because I lost brain cells for each second I spent listening to them.
But as time went on I find the guests that they try to skew on live television their message gets delivered anyway. Fox brings controversy to all liberal, leftists and freethinkers by bringing some hard right conservative challenges. During interviews the anchor seems to get drowned out and its almost as if the guest gets the stage for awhile.
For some reason fox sure seems to have great guests, dawkins, (late)hitchens, john stewart, political heads etc. and that gets the message out perhaps in a stronger voice. When interviewed they make strong points on issues. Any follow up question to their opinion is often just nonsense because the fox anchor is left with nothing so the audience is left with the message of the guest.
It is a smart play by fox to be ignorant pricks when they feel like it but at the same time cover all and any issues that others won't give a platform to. -CNN ring a bell?
Fox maintains viewers, is controversial, has very intelligent guests and is not afraid to speak their bias or receive a bias live.
From studying media marketing in college and staying interested well after (though not working in media, that god), I've been following it all for many years. All of mainstream media is now privately owned (by 6 owners), they're all skewed, but Fox is clearly the most skewed. For
any sort of somewhat factual news, go to the international news outlets or independent journalism.
Of course he should be subjected to questions!
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,840
It's amazing to me that certain factions still make claims or even insinuate that those who are anti-war, who criticize wars or particular acts of war or war related incidents are against the troops. Being anti-war does not make a person anti-troops.
The way Fox News and basically status quo mainstream America does it is that "you're either for us or against us". That came from Bush. If you're not 100% on "our side" then you're 100% "against" our side. That all started with him and now the culture of living here has that stigma. Don't speak out unless you're prepared to get ripped apart… like Moore.
Right! And the thing is, the status quo and especially the far right are desperate to keep a failing system in place and desperate to somehow prop up a belief that something like the war in Iraq was useful, good and valid. We don't have much in the way of strong leaders who are brave enough to stand up to that kind of nonsense and when someone outside the political realm like Moore does stand up to it he gets slammed by that same status quo. I'm not saying Moore is perfect- no one is 100% spot on- but at least he is willing to work against the tide by doing work that always favors people over greed, war, corruption, etc. It's what he does and I'm glad for it.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Fox News is in their completely own league when it comes to news outlets.
I think fox behind the scenes (producers if you will) are very smart. The anchors are just the talking puppet.
It took me years to tolerate listening to any anchor on fox because I lost brain cells for each second I spent listening to them.
But as time went on I find the guests that they try to skew on live television their message gets delivered anyway. Fox brings controversy to all liberal, leftists and freethinkers by bringing some hard right conservative challenges. During interviews the anchor seems to get drowned out and its almost as if the guest gets the stage for awhile.
For some reason fox sure seems to have great guests, dawkins, (late)hitchens, john stewart, political heads etc. and that gets the message out perhaps in a stronger voice. When interviewed they make strong points on issues. Any follow up question to their opinion is often just nonsense because the fox anchor is left with nothing so the audience is left with the message of the guest.
It is a smart play by fox to be ignorant pricks when they feel like it but at the same time cover all and any issues that others won't give a platform to. -CNN ring a bell?
Fox maintains viewers, is controversial, has very intelligent guests and is not afraid to speak their bias or receive a bias live.
Dumb as fox.
Yeah the producers are smart, they know how stupid the public is and manipulate any way they can and use bubble headed yet attractive anchors to deliver. It's all about the manipulation, every bit of it. Don't think for a second that with 6 corporations owning ALL the media in the US, that you're going to get any factual information. The viewer is a pawn to these corporations and they use fear, manipulation, "justness", judgment, and complete one-sidedness in the delivery of the "news". Yes, CNN (owned by Time Warner) is skewed. Fox News owned by Rupert Murdoch's company News Corp. This sentence - "It is a smart play by fox to be ignorant pricks when they feel like it but at the same time cover all and any issues that others won't give a platform to." - is called making up news stories to fit the agenda of the news station. Don't be fooled, dude.
Fox News is in their completely own league when it comes to news outlets.
I think fox behind the scenes (producers if you will) are very smart. The anchors are just the talking puppet.
It took me years to tolerate listening to any anchor on fox because I lost brain cells for each second I spent listening to them.
But as time went on I find the guests that they try to skew on live television their message gets delivered anyway. Fox brings controversy to all liberal, leftists and freethinkers by bringing some hard right conservative challenges. During interviews the anchor seems to get drowned out and its almost as if the guest gets the stage for awhile.
For some reason fox sure seems to have great guests, dawkins, (late)hitchens, john stewart, political heads etc. and that gets the message out perhaps in a stronger voice. When interviewed they make strong points on issues. Any follow up question to their opinion is often just nonsense because the fox anchor is left with nothing so the audience is left with the message of the guest.
It is a smart play by fox to be ignorant pricks when they feel like it but at the same time cover all and any issues that others won't give a platform to. -CNN ring a bell?
Fox maintains viewers, is controversial, has very intelligent guests and is not afraid to speak their bias or receive a bias live.
Dumb as fox.
"It is a smart play by fox to be ignorant pricks when they feel like it but at the same time cover all and any issues that others won't give a platform to." - is called making up news stories to fit the agenda of the news station. Don't be fooled, dude.
I was referring to some of their guests not any of their news.
Good for MM for doing all of those things for the troops. I still don't like him and think he's 100% wrong about snipers being cowards. Or was that Seth Rogan? Or badbrains?
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
I just re-read a bit fuller MM's back-up, and this made me think: but now it's sad seeing him talking to an empty chair on a stage or making an Iraq movie that Rolling Stone this week called, "too dumb to bother criticizing."
The chair thing, silly as it was, was from awhile ago, and not sure when RS became the cornerstone of intelligence. I also tried to find something about the claims about Fahrenheit 9/11.
(and for the record, "far" anything is fucked up, whether one looks right or possibly sees the far left as well)
Is Moore considered heroic for his tweets and facebook posts? Are his actions considered more noble than those of the vets he supports, and for which I give him credit? And again, are snipers and vets equally supported?
Vindication doesn't equate to monetary award, at least from here. He could've sued for a buck.
Sorry, I just see this as money-grubbing under the guise of so-called vindication.
Wrestler vs. sniper, sounds like a dick-measuring contest to me.
He was a navy seal. And a respected governor. I would argue this was far more about reputation than a dick measuring contest. Of course he could have sued for a dollar. He could also have sued for 25 million. To me that doesn't mean he wasn't justified in his suit.
Agreed....Kyle made a lot of money selling that BS. Ventura gets cudos in my book for calling him out as a liar.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
It's amazing to me that certain factions still make claims or even insinuate that those who are anti-war, who criticize wars or particular acts of war or war related incidents are against the troops. Being anti-war does not make a person anti-troops.
The way Fox News and basically status quo mainstream America does it is that "you're either for us or against us". That came from Bush. If you're not 100% on "our side" then you're 100% "against" our side. That all started with him and now the culture of living here has that stigma. Don't speak out unless you're prepared to get ripped apart… like Moore.
Right! And the thing is, the status quo and especially the far right are desperate to keep a failing system in place and desperate to somehow prop up a belief that something like the war in Iraq was useful, good and valid. We don't have much in the way of strong leaders who are brave enough to stand up to that kind of nonsense and when someone outside the political realm like Moore does stand up to it he gets slammed by that same status quo. I'm not saying Moore is perfect- no one is 100% spot on- but at least he is willing to work against the tide by doing work that always favors people over greed, war, corruption, etc. It's what he does and I'm glad for it.
We're on the same wavelength Brian. No one is 100% spot on, but I commend anyone speaking out and risking the backlash surely to come about as a result. And it only helps Moore's credibility that he works with veterans.
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,389
I just re-read a bit fuller MM's back-up, and this made me think: but now it's sad seeing him talking to an empty chair on a stage or making an Iraq movie that Rolling Stone this week called, "too dumb to bother criticizing."
The chair thing, silly as it was, was from awhile ago, and not sure when RS became the cornerstone of intelligence. I also tried to find something about the claims about Fahrenheit 9/11.
(and for the record, "far" anything is fucked up, whether one looks right or possibly sees the far left as well)
Is Moore considered heroic for his tweets and facebook posts? Are his actions considered more noble than those of the vets he supports, and for which I give him credit? And again, are snipers and vets equally supported?
Isn't Moore considered mostly irrelevant at this point?
The film American Sniper, based on the story of the late Navy Seal Chris Kyle, is a box office hit, setting records for an R-rated film released in January. Yet the film, the autobiography of the same name, and the reputation of Chris Kyle are all built on a set of half-truths, myths and outright lies that Hollywood didn’t see fit to clear up.
Here are seven lies about Chris Kyle and the story that director Clint Eastwood is telling:
1. The Film Suggests the Iraq War Was In Response To 9/11: One way to get audiences to unambiguously support Kyle’s actions in the film is to believe he’s there to avenge the 9/11 terrorist attacks. The movie cuts from Kyle watching footage of the attacks to him serving in Iraq, implying there is some link between the two.
2. The Film Invents a Terrorist Sniper Who Works For Multiple Opposing Factions: Kyle’s primary antagonist in the film is a sniper named Mustafa. Mustafa is mentioned in a single paragraph in Kyle’s book, but the movie blows him up into an ever-present figure and Syrian Olympic medal winner who fights for both Sunni insurgents in Fallujah and the Shia Madhi army.
3. The Film Portrays Chris Kyle as Tormented By His Actions: Multiple scenes in the movie portray Kyle as haunted by his service. One of the film’s earliest reviews praised it for showing the “emotional torment of so many military men and women.” But that torment is completely absent from the book the film is based on. In the book, Kyle refers to everyone he fought as “savage, despicable” evil. He writes, “I only wish I had killed more.” He also writes, “I loved what I did. I still do. If circumstances were different – if my family didn’t need me – I’d be back in a heartbeat. I’m not lying or exaggerating to say it was fun. I had the time of my life being a SEAL.” On an appearance on Conan O’Brien’s show he laughs about accidentally shooting an Iraqi insurgent. He once told a military investigator that he doesn’t “shoot people with Korans. I’d like to, but I don’t.”
4. The Real Chris Kyle Made Up A Story About Killing Dozens of People In Post-Katrina New Orleans: Kyle claimed that he killed 30 people in the chaos of New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina, a story Louisiana writer Jarvis DeBerry calls “preposterous.” It shows the sort of mentality post-war Kyle had, but the claim doesn’t appear in the film.
5. The Real Chris Kyle Fabricated A Story About Killing Two Men Who Tried To Carjack Him In Texas: Kyle told numerous people a story about killing two alleged carjackers in Texas. Reporters tried repeatedly to verify this claim, but no evidence of it exists.
6. Chris Kyle Was Successfully Sued For Lying About the Former Governor of Minnesota: Kyle alleged that former Minnesota Governor Jesse Ventura defamed Navy SEALs and got into a fight with him at a local bar. Ventura successfully sued Kyle for the passage in his book, and a jury awarded him $1.845 million.
7. Chris Kyle’s Family Claimed He Donated His Book Proceeds To Veterans’ Charity, But He Kept Most Of The Profits: The National Review debunks the claim that all proceeds of his book went to veterans’ charities. Around 2 percent – $52,000 – went to the charities while the Kyles pocketed $3 million.
Although the movie is an initial box office hit, there is a growing backlash against its simplistic portrayal of the war and misleading take on Kyle’s character. This backlash has reportedly spread among members of the Academy of Motion Picture of Arts and Sciences, which could threaten the film’s shot at racking up Oscars.
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
I just re-read a bit fuller MM's back-up, and this made me think: but now it's sad seeing him talking to an empty chair on a stage or making an Iraq movie that Rolling Stone this week called, "too dumb to bother criticizing."
The chair thing, silly as it was, was from awhile ago, and not sure when RS became the cornerstone of intelligence. I also tried to find something about the claims about Fahrenheit 9/11.
(and for the record, "far" anything is fucked up, whether one looks right or possibly sees the far left as well)
Is Moore considered heroic for his tweets and facebook posts? Are his actions considered more noble than those of the vets he supports, and for which I give him credit? And again, are snipers and vets equally supported?
Isn't Moore considered mostly irrelevant at this point?
Or considered an asshole.
Oh wait - that's Kyle.
And yes, Juggler...while irrelevance itself may be subjective, I'm cool with not giving any more credence to Moore.
I just re-read a bit fuller MM's back-up, and this made me think: but now it's sad seeing him talking to an empty chair on a stage or making an Iraq movie that Rolling Stone this week called, "too dumb to bother criticizing."
The chair thing, silly as it was, was from awhile ago, and not sure when RS became the cornerstone of intelligence. I also tried to find something about the claims about Fahrenheit 9/11.
(and for the record, "far" anything is fucked up, whether one looks right or possibly sees the far left as well)
Is Moore considered heroic for his tweets and facebook posts? Are his actions considered more noble than those of the vets he supports, and for which I give him credit? And again, are snipers and vets equally supported?
Isn't Moore considered mostly irrelevant at this point?
Or considered an asshole.
Oh wait - that's Kyle.
And yes, Juggler...while irrelevance itself may be subjective, I'm cool with not giving any more credence to Moore.
It sounds like people were expecting a documentary on the guy. The movie is really, really good.
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
I just re-read a bit fuller MM's back-up, and this made me think: but now it's sad seeing him talking to an empty chair on a stage or making an Iraq movie that Rolling Stone this week called, "too dumb to bother criticizing."
The chair thing, silly as it was, was from awhile ago, and not sure when RS became the cornerstone of intelligence. I also tried to find something about the claims about Fahrenheit 9/11.
(and for the record, "far" anything is fucked up, whether one looks right or possibly sees the far left as well)
Is Moore considered heroic for his tweets and facebook posts? Are his actions considered more noble than those of the vets he supports, and for which I give him credit? And again, are snipers and vets equally supported?
Isn't Moore considered mostly irrelevant at this point?
Or considered an asshole.
Oh wait - that's Kyle.
And yes, Juggler...while irrelevance itself may be subjective, I'm cool with not giving any more credence to Moore.
It sounds like people were expecting a documentary on the guy. The movie is really, really good.
Looking forward to seeing it (c'mon already, on demand!).
bsL, that's the point of relevance - I have no problem tossing his opinion aside. Same token, I get and even accept that others don't have that same inclination.
The film American Sniper, based on the story of the late Navy Seal Chris Kyle, is a box office hit, setting records for an R-rated film released in January. Yet the film, the autobiography of the same name, and the reputation of Chris Kyle are all built on a set of half-truths, myths and outright lies that Hollywood didn’t see fit to clear up.
Here are seven lies about Chris Kyle and the story that director Clint Eastwood is telling:
1. The Film Suggests the Iraq War Was In Response To 9/11: One way to get audiences to unambiguously support Kyle’s actions in the film is to believe he’s there to avenge the 9/11 terrorist attacks. The movie cuts from Kyle watching footage of the attacks to him serving in Iraq, implying there is some link between the two.
2. The Film Invents a Terrorist Sniper Who Works For Multiple Opposing Factions: Kyle’s primary antagonist in the film is a sniper named Mustafa. Mustafa is mentioned in a single paragraph in Kyle’s book, but the movie blows him up into an ever-present figure and Syrian Olympic medal winner who fights for both Sunni insurgents in Fallujah and the Shia Madhi army.
3. The Film Portrays Chris Kyle as Tormented By His Actions: Multiple scenes in the movie portray Kyle as haunted by his service. One of the film’s earliest reviews praised it for showing the “emotional torment of so many military men and women.” But that torment is completely absent from the book the film is based on. In the book, Kyle refers to everyone he fought as “savage, despicable” evil. He writes, “I only wish I had killed more.” He also writes, “I loved what I did. I still do. If circumstances were different – if my family didn’t need me – I’d be back in a heartbeat. I’m not lying or exaggerating to say it was fun. I had the time of my life being a SEAL.” On an appearance on Conan O’Brien’s show he laughs about accidentally shooting an Iraqi insurgent. He once told a military investigator that he doesn’t “shoot people with Korans. I’d like to, but I don’t.”
4. The Real Chris Kyle Made Up A Story About Killing Dozens of People In Post-Katrina New Orleans: Kyle claimed that he killed 30 people in the chaos of New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina, a story Louisiana writer Jarvis DeBerry calls “preposterous.” It shows the sort of mentality post-war Kyle had, but the claim doesn’t appear in the film.
5. The Real Chris Kyle Fabricated A Story About Killing Two Men Who Tried To Carjack Him In Texas: Kyle told numerous people a story about killing two alleged carjackers in Texas. Reporters tried repeatedly to verify this claim, but no evidence of it exists.
6. Chris Kyle Was Successfully Sued For Lying About the Former Governor of Minnesota: Kyle alleged that former Minnesota Governor Jesse Ventura defamed Navy SEALs and got into a fight with him at a local bar. Ventura successfully sued Kyle for the passage in his book, and a jury awarded him $1.845 million.
7. Chris Kyle’s Family Claimed He Donated His Book Proceeds To Veterans’ Charity, But He Kept Most Of The Profits: The National Review debunks the claim that all proceeds of his book went to veterans’ charities. Around 2 percent – $52,000 – went to the charities while the Kyles pocketed $3 million.
Although the movie is an initial box office hit, there is a growing backlash against its simplistic portrayal of the war and misleading take on Kyle’s character. This backlash has reportedly spread among members of the Academy of Motion Picture of Arts and Sciences, which could threaten the film’s shot at racking up Oscars.
It's what I've been saying through this whole thread: it's based on a true story with Hollywood's twist. It's just a movie. No movie that is based on true stories are EVER 100% accurate. But it's a good movie. Well worth Oscar considerations.
Comments
"My 12 Years of Support for the Troops "
Before I post my more general thoughts later today or tomorrow about the ruckus of the past week regarding the response to my heartfelt comment on twitter about my uncle who was killed in World War II by a sniper - and how I was taught to despise snipers of any stripe - I would like to address this one insane mantra that the right-wing has twisted my tweet into: "Michael Moore hates the troops."
Well, who would know better about hating our troops than those who supported sending them into a senseless war Iraq in the first place?
And, for 4,482 of them, a senseless, unnecessary and regrettable death.
If you supported that invasion, if you voted for George W. Bush and the Republicans and Democrats who backed this war, then you are the ones who have some 'splainin' to do. Not me. You.
Because only "haters" of our brave young men and women would recklessly send them into harm's way for something that had absolutely nothing to do with defending the United States of America. Nothing. Nothing to do with 9/11. Nothing. In fact, WE, the USA, were the ones who provided Saddam with his weapons in the 1980s that he used against the Kurds. We wanted him to use them against the Iranians, but you hand a crazy guy crazy weapons, something crazy is probably going to happen. Ask Osama bin Laden about that -- what he did with the crazy training, crazy money and crazy weapons that WE gave him. Oh wait. You can't ask him. Because the new president took him out. No 150,000 troop invasion necessary. Just 12 or so Navy SEALS and two and a half choppers.
Here's the truth they can't or won't report: I'M the one who has supported these troops - much more than the bloviators on Fox News. To prove it (and I know this is going to crush some of you out there), here's just a partial list of all the things I do and have done for those men and women who serve -- and I guarantee you, you've never heard any of this reported about what the real me does because, frankly, it messes up their little story of the fictional "Michael Moore" they've created for your hate and enjoyment (please feel free to cut, paste and send this to your conservative brother-in-law):
** I have an aggressive affirmative action policy specifically to hire Iraq and Afghanistan veterans at my film production company, my movie theaters in Michigan and my film festival. I have asked other businesses in my town (and nationwide) to join with me on this. http://www.traverseticker.com/…/michael-moore-asks-business… . A vet was an editor on my films "Fahrenheit 9/11" and "Sicko" and a vet (who served in both Iraq AND Afghanistan) is the projectionist at my flagship theater in Michigan (to name a few).
** I also ask people to post a sign I designed and have made available: "I Shop Where Vets Work". Here's my policy and the poster: http://www.statetheatretc.org/veterans#opening (Can someone at Fox News send me your posted affirmative action program to hire Iraq and Afghanistan vets?)
** Since I opened my movie theaters in northern Michigan, this has been my admission policy: "Admission to all movies at my theaters is FREE, 365 days of the year, for ALL active duty military and their families."
** I allow local veterans support groups to use my theater to meet for PTSD issues, I host quarterly PTSD summits, and I've hosted a conference to start a jobs movement for vets in our town.
** I have raised tens of thousands of dollars through my website for groups that help veterans and wounded warriors: http://web.archive.org/…/20140829053240/http://fa…/soldiers/
** In the early years of the war I made all my books and DVDs available free of charge to all service members through BooksForSoldiers.com
** I produced and hosted a benefit for military families at the House of Blues that received national attention to their plight (raw clips here from the AP: )
** I will NOT do business with vendors who don't have a policy to hire vets.
** I gave voice to the troops who weren't being heard by publishing a book of their letters from the front lines in "Will They Every Trust Us Again?" (NY Times bestseller for 4 weeks)
** I regularly post blogs from troops http://www.ivaw.org/blog/ivaw-featured-michael-moore and I show and support many movies about what they've gone through in the past 12 years at my theaters.
** I took vets, soldiers and their families on a 60-city tour of the country so their concerns could be heard:
** I helped Iraq Vets against the War with "Operation Recovery" http://www.ivaw.org/operation-recovery and http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…/how-bout-dinner-just-you_b_…
** My movie, "Fahrenheit 9/11" - #1 selling/#1 rental on all military base PXs
** My books were the #1 requested books by troops from the nonprofit BooksForSoldiers.com
** I sit on the Advisory Board of the Pvt. Bradley (Chelsea) Manning Support Network
** From the Dept. of Irony: I only hire Navy SEALS and ex-special forces for when I need security - such as this week, when so-called supporters of those SEALs want me harmed.
** When my father passed away this year, in lieu of flowers I asked that donations by made in my dad's name to the veterans group, Veterans for Peace. Enough money was raised so that the Vietnam Vets chapter could build a home in Vietnam for a family still suffering from the effects of Agent Orange. It's being dedicated in my dad's name.
** I am currently showing "American Sniper" at my theater that I helped restore and that I program and help run in Manistee, MI. Not because I like it, but because, unlike the other side, I'm not a censor. I trust smart people and people of good heart will know what to do. You can't have a conversation about what Clint Eastwood is up to if you haven't seen what it is he's up to. And regardless where u are on the political spectrum, you'll see that every character in Clint's film comes out dead or permanently damaged. This ain't no John Wayne rah-rah pablum. Eastwood made maybe the greatest western ever - "Unforgiven" - but now it's sad seeing him talking to an empty chair on a stage or making an Iraq movie that Rolling Stone this week called, "too dumb to bother criticizing."
In the end, the thing I'm most proud of for what I've done for the troops was sticking my neck out 12 years ago to become a leading opponent to Bush and the war. I tried to save more lives than a sniper ever could hope to -- by preventing us from going to war in the first place. Well, I failed at that. But I've done everything else humanly possible to try and make it up to those troops when they return home -- that is, the ones lucky enough to return home.
So, Fox News and the other lazy media -- quit making shit up about me! You look ridiculous. If you want to have a debate with me about the ISSUES and the POLICIES, then let's have it. If you want to debate a movie that's trying to rewrite history, then let's have that. But when you hide behind falsehoods and then use them to try and manipulate the public, then all you are is afraid. Afraid of me, an unarmed American, and the truth I bring along as my sidekick. Only cowards have to lie. Be brave. Report the truth. It will feel good.
I bolded the last bit, because it's why I like Moore. He has nothing to hide and he welcomes open discussion in having a differing public opinion regardless of the backlash from the American public and the accusatory media of anything that doesn't represent the fear, justness and judgment of status quo America.
www.headstonesband.com
Bingo!
I'm also curious if specifically naming Fox News is to sway. Surely they can't be the only news outlet to have spoken about Moore?
Cynicism doesn't often play a part in my life, but it's doing so here.
Maybe not, but Fox is the biggest offender.
www.headstonesband.com
I'm sure there are haters from the others as well. …Haters gonna hate, regardless of where they come from, but the biggest haters are Fox News hands down. They induce the biggest judgment, biggest fear, biggest liars in the entire news industry.
The way Fox News and basically status quo mainstream America does it is that "you're either for us or against us". That came from Bush. If you're not 100% on "our side" then you're 100% "against" our side. That all started with him and now the culture of living here has that stigma. Don't speak out unless you're prepared to get ripped apart… like Moore.
"hey, stop now!"
And I will say again, I whole-heartedly support Moore in speaking his mind. He's no lower or higher than you or I simply because he's made films and uses social media. And, like you or I, he too is subject to be questioned (not ripped apart) for those views.
edit - saw you revised your post after my response.
I think fox behind the scenes (producers if you will) are very smart. The anchors are just the talking puppet.
It took me years to tolerate listening to any anchor on fox because I lost brain cells for each second I spent listening to them.
But as time went on I find the guests that they try to skew on live television their message gets delivered anyway. Fox brings controversy to all liberal, leftists and freethinkers by bringing some hard right conservative challenges. During interviews the anchor seems to get drowned out and its almost as if the guest gets the stage for awhile.
For some reason fox sure seems to have great guests, dawkins, (late)hitchens, john stewart, political heads etc. and that gets the message out perhaps in a stronger voice. When interviewed they make strong points on issues. Any follow up question to their opinion is often just nonsense because the fox anchor is left with nothing so the audience is left with the message of the guest.
It is a smart play by fox to be ignorant pricks when they feel like it but at the same time cover all and any issues that others won't give a platform to. -CNN ring a bell?
Fox maintains viewers, is controversial, has very intelligent guests and is not afraid to speak their bias or receive a bias live.
Dumb as fox.
From studying media marketing in college and staying interested well after (though not working in media, that god), I've been following it all for many years. All of mainstream media is now privately owned (by 6 owners), they're all skewed, but Fox is clearly the most skewed. For
any sort of somewhat factual news, go to the international news outlets or independent journalism.
Of course he should be subjected to questions!
Right! And the thing is, the status quo and especially the far right are desperate to keep a failing system in place and desperate to somehow prop up a belief that something like the war in Iraq was useful, good and valid. We don't have much in the way of strong leaders who are brave enough to stand up to that kind of nonsense and when someone outside the political realm like Moore does stand up to it he gets slammed by that same status quo. I'm not saying Moore is perfect- no one is 100% spot on- but at least he is willing to work against the tide by doing work that always favors people over greed, war, corruption, etc. It's what he does and I'm glad for it.
Yeah the producers are smart, they know how stupid the public is and manipulate any way they can and use bubble headed yet attractive anchors to deliver. It's all about the manipulation, every bit of it. Don't think for a second that with 6 corporations owning ALL the media in the US, that you're going to get any factual information. The viewer is a pawn to these corporations and they use fear, manipulation, "justness", judgment, and complete one-sidedness in the delivery of the "news". Yes, CNN (owned by Time Warner) is skewed. Fox News owned by Rupert Murdoch's company News Corp. This sentence - "It is a smart play by fox to be ignorant pricks when they feel like it but at the same time cover all and any issues that others won't give a platform to." - is called making up news stories to fit the agenda of the news station. Don't be fooled, dude.
I was referring to some of their guests not any of their news.
but now it's sad seeing him talking to an empty chair on a stage or making an Iraq movie that Rolling Stone this week called, "too dumb to bother criticizing."
The chair thing, silly as it was, was from awhile ago, and not sure when RS became the cornerstone of intelligence. I also tried to find something about the claims about Fahrenheit 9/11.
(and for the record, "far" anything is fucked up, whether one looks right or possibly sees the far left as well)
Is Moore considered heroic for his tweets and facebook posts? Are his actions considered more noble than those of the vets he supports, and for which I give him credit? And again, are snipers and vets equally supported?
Agreed....Kyle made a lot of money selling that BS. Ventura gets cudos in my book for calling him out as a liar.
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
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2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
Isn't Moore considered mostly irrelevant at this point?
http://www.salon.com/2015/01/23/7_enormous_lies_american_sniper_is_telling_america_partner/
The film American Sniper, based on the story of the late Navy Seal Chris Kyle, is a box office hit, setting records for an R-rated film released in January. Yet the film, the autobiography of the same name, and the reputation of Chris Kyle are all built on a set of half-truths, myths and outright lies that Hollywood didn’t see fit to clear up.
Here are seven lies about Chris Kyle and the story that director Clint Eastwood is telling:
1. The Film Suggests the Iraq War Was In Response To 9/11: One way to get audiences to unambiguously support Kyle’s actions in the film is to believe he’s there to avenge the 9/11 terrorist attacks. The movie cuts from Kyle watching footage of the attacks to him serving in Iraq, implying there is some link between the two.
2. The Film Invents a Terrorist Sniper Who Works For Multiple Opposing Factions: Kyle’s primary antagonist in the film is a sniper named Mustafa. Mustafa is mentioned in a single paragraph in Kyle’s book, but the movie blows him up into an ever-present figure and Syrian Olympic medal winner who fights for both Sunni insurgents in Fallujah and the Shia Madhi army.
3. The Film Portrays Chris Kyle as Tormented By His Actions: Multiple scenes in the movie portray Kyle as haunted by his service. One of the film’s earliest reviews praised it for showing the “emotional torment of so many military men and women.” But that torment is completely absent from the book the film is based on. In the book, Kyle refers to everyone he fought as “savage, despicable” evil. He writes, “I only wish I had killed more.” He also writes, “I loved what I did. I still do. If circumstances were different – if my family didn’t need me – I’d be back in a heartbeat. I’m not lying or exaggerating to say it was fun. I had the time of my life being a SEAL.” On an appearance on Conan O’Brien’s show he laughs about accidentally shooting an Iraqi insurgent. He once told a military investigator that he doesn’t “shoot people with Korans. I’d like to, but I don’t.”
4. The Real Chris Kyle Made Up A Story About Killing Dozens of People In Post-Katrina New Orleans: Kyle claimed that he killed 30 people in the chaos of New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina, a story Louisiana writer Jarvis DeBerry calls “preposterous.” It shows the sort of mentality post-war Kyle had, but the claim doesn’t appear in the film.
5. The Real Chris Kyle Fabricated A Story About Killing Two Men Who Tried To Carjack Him In Texas: Kyle told numerous people a story about killing two alleged carjackers in Texas. Reporters tried repeatedly to verify this claim, but no evidence of it exists.
6. Chris Kyle Was Successfully Sued For Lying About the Former Governor of Minnesota: Kyle alleged that former Minnesota Governor Jesse Ventura defamed Navy SEALs and got into a fight with him at a local bar. Ventura successfully sued Kyle for the passage in his book, and a jury awarded him $1.845 million.
7. Chris Kyle’s Family Claimed He Donated His Book Proceeds To Veterans’ Charity, But He Kept Most Of The Profits: The National Review debunks the claim that all proceeds of his book went to veterans’ charities. Around 2 percent – $52,000 – went to the charities while the Kyles pocketed $3 million.
Although the movie is an initial box office hit, there is a growing backlash against its simplistic portrayal of the war and misleading take on Kyle’s character. This backlash has reportedly spread among members of the Academy of Motion Picture of Arts and Sciences, which could threaten the film’s shot at racking up Oscars.
Or considered an asshole.
Oh wait - that's Kyle.
And yes, Juggler...while irrelevance itself may be subjective, I'm cool with not giving any more credence to Moore.
It sounds like people were expecting a documentary on the guy. The movie is really, really good.
bsL, that's the point of relevance - I have no problem tossing his opinion aside. Same token, I get and even accept that others don't have that same inclination.
It's what I've been saying through this whole thread: it's based on a true story with Hollywood's twist. It's just a movie. No movie that is based on true stories are EVER 100% accurate. But it's a good movie. Well worth Oscar considerations.