I watched this film last night. The psychological impact of war is too great. While everyone else seems to be walking away saying what a patriot he is, all I could see was the mental and emotional scars that were created that will never go away. Why are we ok with this? I can only think of two wars that America has ever been involved in which fighting for the common good made the sacrifice necessary. But not this war and certainly not this continued fighting for places that we can't fix.
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
There's nothing wrong with telling one guys story as he saw it and Hollywood throwing in their two cents. I don't know why this movie struck a nerve with so many. It's just a movie. A real good movie. It's really irrelevant what your stance on war or snipers are. It's still just a movie.
If you condone the actions of someone who volunteers to a conflict isn't that also condoning the conflict? Does it make sense to say, "I support the gangsters, but I don't support the gang"???
I hate that most of us can't talk about these issues face to face. I'm not going anywhere near that cold weather, so why don't some of you take a winter trip to Charleston.
Rgambs - it seems to me that your statement is similar to the Vietnam protesters. And they treated the servicemen very poorly. And what does that get anyone?
I think there are respectful ways to even talk about this Sniper and criticize. And then there is the sensational Moore's way which is akin to Vietnam protesters taking their anger out on the people.
There was a draft then, that makes a big difference. I personally think it's naive to think that the harsh criticism, both respectful and disrespectful, of the Vietnam conflict and those who fought it had nothing to do with the exit from the conflict before the objectives were achieved. "Coward" is disrespectful for sure and isn't cool...but in this country there is almost ZERO tolerance of any criticism of US Troops, and until the taboo is broken, tough talk is needed IMO
Watched this movie last night. I'm guessing all the negative talk from people like Moore and Rogan will just help the movies bottom line. This is based off a true story right? I'm sure like any hollywood productions some facts are left out or could be incorrect. Every war has a snipers ...
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
The reason everyone is talking about it is because a famous documentarian called snipers cowards. The reason people object to the movie is because it leaves out the lies, falsifications, and illegalities of the war, it glorifies a conflict which left thousands of innocents dead, and the subject of the film has said some very racist and vile things about killing.
The movie was specifically about Chris Kyle. Correct? It was based off his book. Correct? I notice that in is assertion that snipers are cowards ... but does Moore ever point out how cowardly it is for these insurgents to send woman and children carry bombs to do harm to US military personnel? After all I believe that many of these snipers are trained specifically to take out threats.
I think by now most people know these wars were very unnecessary ... but snipers are trained to do a job, and they also must follow orders ... thats how functioning militaries work.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
But not this war and certainly not this continued fighting for places that we can't fix.
I couldn't agree more ... that part of the world is unfixable. I wish the west would just get out of that area and stay out, this also includes any monies granted in any kind of aid.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
The movie was specifically about Chris Kyle. Correct? It was based off his book. Correct? I notice that in is assertion that snipers are cowards ... but does Moore ever point out how cowardly it is for these insurgents to send woman and children carry bombs to do harm to US military personnel? After all I believe that many of these snipers are trained specifically to take out threats.
I think by now most people know these wars were very unnecessary ... but snipers are trained to do a job, and they also must follow orders ... thats how functioning militaries work.
I want to see the movie but I think the biggest problem a lot of people have is that it misrepresents the Iraq war.
Also....there are several "stories" that Kyle tells in his book that are false. One being about Kyle beating up on Jesse Ventura. Ventura is suing Kyle's estate I believe.
Kyle supposedly said that he went to New Orleans during the Katrina mess and sniped looters....untrue
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
The movie was specifically about Chris Kyle. Correct? It was based off his book. Correct? I notice that in is assertion that snipers are cowards ... but does Moore ever point out how cowardly it is for these insurgents to send woman and children carry bombs to do harm to US military personnel? After all I believe that many of these snipers are trained specifically to take out threats.
I think by now most people know these wars were very unnecessary ... but snipers are trained to do a job, and they also must follow orders ... thats how functioning militaries work.
I want to see the movie but I think the biggest problem a lot of people have is that it misrepresents the Iraq war.
Also....there are several "stories" that Kyle tells in his book that are false. One being about Kyle beating up on Jesse Ventura. Ventura is suing Kyle's estate I believe.
Kyle supposedly said that he went to New Orleans during the Katrina mess and sniped looters....untrue
Gern, I've read varying accounts of the Ventura thing, and even you seem to question its validity by the quotation marks, using supposedly and "I believe".
I look at it this way. If it did happen, Kyle is dead; just let it go.
If it didn't happen, was manufactured for whatever reason, again - Kyle is dead. Let it go. Why put his family through this? Let them live in peace, for fuck's sake. Clearing your name would ride on a formal decision and not money, I would think.
The reason everyone is talking about it is because a famous documentarian called snipers cowards. The reason people object to the movie is because it leaves out the lies, falsifications, and illegalities of the war, it glorifies a conflict which left thousands of innocents dead, and the subject of the film has said some very racist and vile things about killing.
The reason all of that was left out is because that's not what the movie is about.
Last12Exit "The reason all of that was left out is because that's not what the movie is about."
True, but it could have been. They could have told the story any number of ways, and the way they chose to tell it leaves those things out, which has the effect of pissing some folks off.
There was significant buzz around this movie before MM opened his mouth about it. I highly doubt his words can be credited with any significant, if any, extra monies made As a tesult of his tweet.
Ventura sued Kyle while he was still alive, and kept it open against his estate after he passed. Nothing wrong with that. Why let it go just because he died? His reputation still got hit. That didn't go away. He was awarded $1.8 million in damages for it, just the other day.
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
I just don't get (1) how that is worth close to two million dollars...and (2) the point of dragging Kyle's family through this. Again, let them live in peace. They are not Kyle. And they've suffered enough.
Really, what is the point? Ventura's ego?
How does money paid equal restoration of reputation? If Kyle is so reprehensible, how could that legitimately hit someone else?
Just seems to me that many are grasping at straws.
I just don't get (1) how that is worth close to two million dollars...and (2) the point of dragging Kyle's family through this. Again, let them live in peace. They are not Kyle. And they've suffered enough.
Really, what is the point? Ventura's ego?
How does money paid equal restoration of reputation? If Kyle is so reprehensible, how could that legitimately hit someone else?
Just seems to me that many are grasping at straws.
It is most likely not the money. Ventura just wanted to be vindicated in a court of law and get some semblance of his reputation back. The monetary award is one strange way in which our civil system works. It works, in theory I believe, as a deterrent for others do perpetuate acts of slander. If all that happened was a judgment in favor of the plaintiff, without any actual consequence for the act, how does that deter further slander?
The monetary award does not vindicate the plaintiff, the judgment does.
It is not ventura's fault kyle died before it was settled. He had every right to see it through.
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
Vindication doesn't equate to monetary award, at least from here. He could've sued for a buck.
Sorry, I just see this as money-grubbing under the guise of so-called vindication.
Wrestler vs. sniper, sounds like a dick-measuring contest to me.
Vindication doesn't equate to monetary award, at least from here. He could've sued for a buck.
Sorry, I just see this as money-grubbing under the guise of so-called vindication.
Wrestler vs. sniper, sounds like a dick-measuring contest to me.
He was a navy seal. And a respected governor. I would argue this was far more about reputation than a dick measuring contest. Of course he could have sued for a dollar. He could also have sued for 25 million. To me that doesn't mean he wasn't justified in his suit.
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I believe someone once said "pics or it didn't happen". Not sure who.
Now we are the journalist zone, damn
thanks for not posting a pic in my defence all
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
The overwhelming majority are not okay with this war and do not want more war, badbrains.
Does it make sense to say, "I support the gangsters, but I don't support the gang"???
I think there are respectful ways to even talk about this Sniper and criticize. And then there is the sensational Moore's way which is akin to Vietnam protesters taking their anger out on the people.
"Coward" is disrespectful for sure and isn't cool...but in this country there is almost ZERO tolerance of any criticism of US Troops, and until the taboo is broken, tough talk is needed IMO
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
I think by now most people know these wars were very unnecessary ... but snipers are trained to do a job, and they also must follow orders ... thats how functioning militaries work.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I couldn't agree more ... that part of the world is unfixable. I wish the west would just get out of that area and stay out, this also includes any monies granted in any kind of aid.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I want to see the movie but I think the biggest problem a lot of people have is that it misrepresents the Iraq war.
Also....there are several "stories" that Kyle tells in his book that are false. One being about Kyle beating up on Jesse Ventura. Ventura is suing Kyle's estate I believe.
Kyle supposedly said that he went to New Orleans during the Katrina mess and sniped looters....untrue
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
I look at it this way. If it did happen, Kyle is dead; just let it go.
If it didn't happen, was manufactured for whatever reason, again - Kyle is dead. Let it go. Why put his family through this? Let them live in peace, for fuck's sake. Clearing your name would ride on a formal decision and not money, I would think.
The reason all of that was left out is because that's not what the movie is about.
"The reason all of that was left out is because that's not what the movie is about."
True, but it could have been. They could have told the story any number of ways, and the way they chose to tell it leaves those things out, which has the effect of pissing some folks off.
Ventura sued Kyle while he was still alive, and kept it open against his estate after he passed. Nothing wrong with that. Why let it go just because he died? His reputation still got hit. That didn't go away. He was awarded $1.8 million in damages for it, just the other day.
www.headstonesband.com
Really, what is the point? Ventura's ego?
How does money paid equal restoration of reputation? If Kyle is so reprehensible, how could that legitimately hit someone else?
Just seems to me that many are grasping at straws.
It is most likely not the money. Ventura just wanted to be vindicated in a court of law and get some semblance of his reputation back. The monetary award is one strange way in which our civil system works. It works, in theory I believe, as a deterrent for others do perpetuate acts of slander. If all that happened was a judgment in favor of the plaintiff, without any actual consequence for the act, how does that deter further slander?
The monetary award does not vindicate the plaintiff, the judgment does.
It is not ventura's fault kyle died before it was settled. He had every right to see it through.
www.headstonesband.com
Sorry, I just see this as money-grubbing under the guise of so-called vindication.
Wrestler vs. sniper, sounds like a dick-measuring contest to me.
He was a navy seal. And a respected governor. I would argue this was far more about reputation than a dick measuring contest. Of course he could have sued for a dollar. He could also have sued for 25 million. To me that doesn't mean he wasn't justified in his suit.
www.headstonesband.com