The Serpico article just seems like total common sense.Most federal or local law enforcement I know would have no problem getting behind those basic principles.
I would be interested in hearing muskydan's serious take on the "Serpico post".
There are some really good idealistic points with Serpico. Quite honestly I don't have it in me to really write out my feelings on it, plus my city is a completely different animal. I don't care what anyone says, Any working Police will tell you policing is completely different from city to city and area to area. All I can say is I feel there are some really scary times ahead of us with this country on this issue. Ironically the people that will be effected the most, other than more assassinated cops, will be the people who live in Low income areas. Simply put, there will now be A LOT less cops willing to stick their neck's out or career's out to do what police officers are trained and ingrained to do….that is run towards danger and threats, not away from it or wait minutes for backup which most of the time it will be too late. It's takes a special person to run towards danger and not away from it. I have witness numerous rookie coppers quit after a shift when thing got REAL.
It has not been easy the past month dealing with protesters yelling at the top of their lungs 6 inches from my face their hateful rhetoric , I won't get into exactly what is being said, but I am sure you have heard some of it on the news. The past 3 days its been that much more difficult, but freedom of speech is what this country is all about…I am a firm believer in that. However, The protesters yesterday at the home of one of the fallen and today walking the streets of NYC should be ashamed of themselves, but that's just my opinion which I am allowed to have out of uniform.
My opinion from todays protest….We have many misguided trustafarian type, clueless college age kids that have never stepped one foot in the hood and have never been the victim of a heinous crime. Attitudes change real quick when things get REAL…. I see it all the time. My favorite from last week was when a white 20 yr old female had her iPhone Strong Arm Robbed from her while she was protesting down Michigan Ave holding a sign "AFRICAN AMERICANS will get back at KILLER WHITE COPS". She came running up to me in a panic relaying her story. So I asked for a detailed description of said offender and she just didn't have it in her to give it to me. All I could get out of her was that the offender was a ??? Male that was skinny and between 5'9-5"11 w/ no clothing description given at this time. I felt like a idiot (well not really:)putting that vague flash message out on the radio as we are required to do so one of us could possibly collar this mope.. I really should share my black partner's thoughts on this whole situation with you guys, but that will probably get me kicked off this site…. Anyhow, back to work…..BE SAFE and hug someone you LOVE and little tighter today, I know I will.
I'm not sure why it's so difficult to recruit quality individuals in the US to the police force, when in Canada it's so difficult to get in.
I'll speculate...
Canada doesn't feature the same inherent threats as the US does: no guns, very little poverty, and no blatant racism. I'd rather be an underwater welder than a cop in the US.
The people that I associate with never speak poorly of the police. The amount of disrespect the US faction of the 10C 'generally' has for it's working police is shocking. Why would young people be interested in law enforcement when it seems to be viewed it so negatively?
Further, I feel that the Canadian police (the RCMP anyways) are paid reasonably well and generously compared to our southern counterparts.
Damn quotes! Thanks for replying musky, i figured it was common sense to all, but wanted to let you speak for yourself. I wish that teachers and cops were screened better and paid more than Senators and bankers. That alone would nearly solve our crime and punishment issues.
Here is something a NYC policeman just wrote. Unfortunately this is ever growing attitude loads of working copper's I work with are feeling right now as am I. I sure hope things chance cause if we proceed down this path American society is going to have a very big problem. When the Bad guys no longer fear the Police society suffers most…trust me. Again, take it for what it's worth…this is the true feeling's of a NYC working police….
WAAR Media has received the following statement from a current NYPD Police Officer under the condition of anonymity. Please be advised the post contains strong language and profanity which though not typical of WAAR posts, we felt was important to post in a version that was unedited.
* Al Sharpton’s name is left as it was typed as NYPD officers sometimes refer to Mr. Sharpton as the Sharp ton.
When I was a kid I’d see my dad come home with his gun and shield, and I was beyond intrigued. He was not only my hero, but the city’s. I couldn’t wait to grow up and be a cop. Just like my dad and my older brother. I didn’t know what the pay or the benefits were, I just wanted to help people. Fast forward 20+ years and here I am. Except I’m no ones hero, actually I’m the enemy.
It wasn’t until I graduated the academy and went out on the street I realized, wow, where the fuck am I? Dead bodies, homicides, drugs, guns. At first it was fun. A cat and mouse game. I get the bad guy off the street and it saves the city. As the years progressed and the neighborhoods I worked in got worse, slowly that bad guy I hunted transitioned. He was no longer a guy with a gun in his baggy pants, he was me. I was hated. By every single person I encountered. No matter what I did.
There were days I’d get my ass kicked. Days I’d get murderers and rapists off the street. It didn’t matter. I was a white Irish cop, the devil. It didn’t matter I tried in vain to give CPR to a dying baby, I was still the enemy a minute later. But at the end of the day the bad guys still feared us and that’s all that mattered.
Fast forward to the liberal anti-cop movement. City councils, CCRB, Al Sharp ton. Nobody gave a fuck that every night I saw a different black man take a bullet, they just cared that it was not mine. Now I get in trouble for cursing. What? If your wrestling with a mope with a gun are you gonna curse? Are you gonna fight back? Of course cause I’m human. Suddenly though, I can’t even be human. Those rights that are demanded by these protesters, well they’re everyone’s but mine.
I swore I’d never become that cop. That old, angry, numb socially uncouth cop. Well now I make that cop look like mother Theresa. Theres only so much a person can take before they shut down. No one calls 911 for good things. It’s a daily roller coaster of bad to horrific and it never gets better.
You take this job and you know there’s a chance you can die, obviously. But you think of it as, “OK , I’m in this gun battle with a bank robber and I die in glory.” You don’t sign up for “I’m gonna be sitting in my patrol car eating lunch and get executed from behind.” Give me a chance. A chance to fight back you fuckin coward. They never had a chance. And it eats me up inside.
I’m sick over it. I didn’t know them but I know them. They’re me. I’m them. I play it over and over again in my head and it makes me sick. Yeah that heartless animal murdered them, but he didn’t act alone. The city of New York run by its disgrace of a Mayor, di Blasio murdered them too. Here’s a man who stands in front of his city and tells them he’s afraid his son will get killed by a cop, all the while he has cops guarding his son 24/7. He enticed a race war. He allows a city to protest for a criminal and chant they want dead cops. Well they got what they wanted didn’t they? Right before Christmas, 2 funerals. A husband, a father, a son.
Every single day at work I encounter real bad guys. And guess what? They know they’ve won. They know we are hesitant. That fear is gone. Now that fear is in us. I have two little kids at home. I’m gonna leave them parentless for what? A city that hates me? Condemns me? Leave my spouse a single parent for a city that spits on me? It’s not worth it anymore.
I don’t know what’s going to happen but I do know this. You can curse us, spit on us, even fight us, but the day you kill us is the day you awake a sleeping giant. We were executed. We won’t be executed again. We are in hell right now, but if you think we are gonna sit back and get murdered you’re wrong. Their blood is on di Blasios hands. He has single handily divided the city. Not just black and white but black and blue. He stands next to Sharp ton, a man who has professed his anti-white anti-Semitic rants for decades. It’s egregious. Despicable. It’s almost like I’m in a different world. When the fuck did I become the bad guy? When the fuck did they let bad guys run the city?
So I never got to become that hero like my dad. But I got to share the same uniform as 2 of them-Ramos and Liu. Remember their names. They were murdered by the city of New York. The great city that I swore to protect, that never protected us back. Their execution will live heavy in my heart forever. I’ve officially lost my faith in mankind. But I haven’t yet lost my faith in God. And as I get dressed every day and put my vest on, I say a prayer to God, “Lead us to a place, guide us with your grace, to a place where we’ll be safe.” I don’t need to be a hero anymore, I just want to go home.
Powerful stuff. I don't agree though that "They were murdered by the city of New York." or that "Their blood is on di Blasio's hands." Both statements are stretching away from reality just as far as folks who "hate cops". Everything shouldn't be so damn black and white that criticism of brutality is considered equal to hatred and reason to lay blame on everyone for the actions of one crazy person.
Here is something a NYC policeman just wrote. Unfortunately this is ever growing attitude loads of working copper's I work with are feeling right now as am I. I sure hope things chance cause if we proceed down this path American society is going to have a very big problem. When the Bad guys no longer fear the Police society suffers most…trust me. Again, take it for what it's worth…this is the true feeling's of a NYC working police….
WAAR Media has received the following statement from a current NYPD Police Officer under the condition of anonymity. Please be advised the post contains strong language and profanity which though not typical of WAAR posts, we felt was important to post in a version that was unedited.
* Al Sharpton’s name is left as it was typed as NYPD officers sometimes refer to Mr. Sharpton as the Sharp ton.
When I was a kid I’d see my dad come home with his gun and shield, and I was beyond intrigued. He was not only my hero, but the city’s. I couldn’t wait to grow up and be a cop. Just like my dad and my older brother. I didn’t know what the pay or the benefits were, I just wanted to help people. Fast forward 20+ years and here I am. Except I’m no ones hero, actually I’m the enemy.
It wasn’t until I graduated the academy and went out on the street I realized, wow, where the fuck am I? Dead bodies, homicides, drugs, guns. At first it was fun. A cat and mouse game. I get the bad guy off the street and it saves the city. As the years progressed and the neighborhoods I worked in got worse, slowly that bad guy I hunted transitioned. He was no longer a guy with a gun in his baggy pants, he was me. I was hated. By every single person I encountered. No matter what I did.
There were days I’d get my ass kicked. Days I’d get murderers and rapists off the street. It didn’t matter. I was a white Irish cop, the devil. It didn’t matter I tried in vain to give CPR to a dying baby, I was still the enemy a minute later. But at the end of the day the bad guys still feared us and that’s all that mattered.
Fast forward to the liberal anti-cop movement. City councils, CCRB, Al Sharp ton. Nobody gave a fuck that every night I saw a different black man take a bullet, they just cared that it was not mine. Now I get in trouble for cursing. What? If your wrestling with a mope with a gun are you gonna curse? Are you gonna fight back? Of course cause I’m human. Suddenly though, I can’t even be human. Those rights that are demanded by these protesters, well they’re everyone’s but mine.
I swore I’d never become that cop. That old, angry, numb socially uncouth cop. Well now I make that cop look like mother Theresa. Theres only so much a person can take before they shut down. No one calls 911 for good things. It’s a daily roller coaster of bad to horrific and it never gets better.
You take this job and you know there’s a chance you can die, obviously. But you think of it as, “OK , I’m in this gun battle with a bank robber and I die in glory.” You don’t sign up for “I’m gonna be sitting in my patrol car eating lunch and get executed from behind.” Give me a chance. A chance to fight back you fuckin coward. They never had a chance. And it eats me up inside.
I’m sick over it. I didn’t know them but I know them. They’re me. I’m them. I play it over and over again in my head and it makes me sick. Yeah that heartless animal murdered them, but he didn’t act alone. The city of New York run by its disgrace of a Mayor, di Blasio murdered them too. Here’s a man who stands in front of his city and tells them he’s afraid his son will get killed by a cop, all the while he has cops guarding his son 24/7. He enticed a race war. He allows a city to protest for a criminal and chant they want dead cops. Well they got what they wanted didn’t they? Right before Christmas, 2 funerals. A husband, a father, a son.
Every single day at work I encounter real bad guys. And guess what? They know they’ve won. They know we are hesitant. That fear is gone. Now that fear is in us. I have two little kids at home. I’m gonna leave them parentless for what? A city that hates me? Condemns me? Leave my spouse a single parent for a city that spits on me? It’s not worth it anymore.
I don’t know what’s going to happen but I do know this. You can curse us, spit on us, even fight us, but the day you kill us is the day you awake a sleeping giant. We were executed. We won’t be executed again. We are in hell right now, but if you think we are gonna sit back and get murdered you’re wrong. Their blood is on di Blasios hands. He has single handily divided the city. Not just black and white but black and blue. He stands next to Sharp ton, a man who has professed his anti-white anti-Semitic rants for decades. It’s egregious. Despicable. It’s almost like I’m in a different world. When the fuck did I become the bad guy? When the fuck did they let bad guys run the city?
So I never got to become that hero like my dad. But I got to share the same uniform as 2 of them-Ramos and Liu. Remember their names. They were murdered by the city of New York. The great city that I swore to protect, that never protected us back. Their execution will live heavy in my heart forever. I’ve officially lost my faith in mankind. But I haven’t yet lost my faith in God. And as I get dressed every day and put my vest on, I say a prayer to God, “Lead us to a place, guide us with your grace, to a place where we’ll be safe.” I don’t need to be a hero anymore, I just want to go home.
Was a pretty good rant until it was meddled with god shit.
Powerful stuff. I don't agree though that "They were murdered by the city of New York." or that "Their blood is on di Blasio's hands."
Both statements are stretching away from reality just as far as folks who "hate cops". Everything shouldn't be so damn black and white that criticism of brutality is considered equal to hatred and reason to lay blame on everyone for the actions of one crazy person.
If it was just 'the criticism of brutality'... then the countless criticisms would have been directed at, for example, Officer Wilson and the specific cases of brutality. The ones I read consistently said 'police' and were careless to discern the overwhelming majority of good police officers from the actions of a few poorly performing ones.
As such, the countless and mindless idiots that simply cannot discern for themselves have been swept up in the misled wave of animosity towards law enforcement.
It isnt realistic to expect everyone to asterisk every statement with a discernment stating that they don't hate all cops and they know the majority don't commit brutality.
It isnt realistic to expect everyone to asterisk every statement with a discernment stating that they don't hate all cops and they know the majority don't commit brutality.
Also, who are you to deem those with animosity toward law enforcement as having been swept up in a misled wave? I personally think that those who have been stopped and frisked, or pulled over for DWB have a valid right to the opinions they form, and that those opinions may be formed on more concrete evidence than a WMA rurian or Canadian like you and I.
It isnt realistic to expect everyone to asterisk every statement with a discernment stating that they don't hate all cops and they know the majority don't commit brutality.
Say what you will, but many if not most of the comments I read here were 'careless' in nature. Look at the thread titles for examples of what I am saying: another death, police not indicted... police abuse... hands up don't shoot... police shoot kid in Cleveland... etc.
Also, who are you to deem those with animosity toward law enforcement as having been swept up in a misled wave? I personally think that those who have been stopped and frisked, or pulled over for DWB have a valid right to the opinions they form, and that those opinions may be formed on more concrete evidence than a WMA rurian or Canadian like you and I.
Also, who are you to deem those with animosity toward law enforcement as having been swept up in a misled wave? I personally think that those who have been stopped and frisked, or pulled over for DWB have a valid right to the opinions they form, and that those opinions may be formed on more concrete evidence than a WMA rurian or Canadian like you and I.
Some have a background where they legitimately might be distrustful of police. Many others however, do not... and speak from a vantage point where they should remain much more objective.
It's funny... some of the same people so quick to demonize police 'in general' are some of the loudest people defending Muslims 'in general' whenever IS beheadings or similar outlandish behaviour by some practicing the Muslim faith are under the microscope.
It seems they can recognize the error of making broad sweeping statements and how damaging such can be for the overwhelming majority of peaceful people practicing a faith... yet fail to see how similar broad sweeping statements can be just as damaging to the overwhelming majority of good, honest, hard working people practicing a profession.
Pjfan, my point was self-contained and self-evident, nothing was implied so no clarification is needed. Thirtybills, I get what you are saying, but I don't think the comparison to Muslims is all that valid. The reason folks get upset with that is that Muslim is not the primary descriptor for the people in question when they belong to terrorists groups, it is secondary. What would you have the thread names that deal with the large and considerable problem of police brutality be? What substitute for each of the five examples would you give that would be more sensitive.
NYPD don't get paid shit to start off with. Even if you get promoted, it's not like they're making lawyer bank. You have to truly WANT to be a cop, or you're just hanging your future on the early retirement benefit.
NYPD don't get paid shit to start off with. Even if you get promoted, it's not like they're making lawyer bank. You have to truly WANT to be a cop, or you're just hanging your future on the early retirement benefit.
to answer your question about cops in Canad it depends on what province you are a cop in.
the ave is 60 to 70 k a year plus benefits.
New RCMP constables receive a base salary of $48,946. Usually after about 36 months of service, they make approximately $79,308 a year.
Cadets in training with the Toronto Police Service can expect to start at $53,605 per year and advance to $59,574 as a 4th class constable. (1st class constables make $85,106.)
I think thats a good deal better than the States. Should be better yet, we pay lawyers more to defend our legal rights than we pay the police to protect our bodies and lives and we wonder why we have problems.
I think thats a good deal better than the States. Should be better yet, we pay lawyers more to defend our legal rights than we pay the police to protect our bodies and lives and we wonder why we have problems.
This is true. Same with teachers. We pay poor teacher salaries and then wonder why our educational system is ranked so relatively low for a country with our wealth. Our priorities in the U.S. are all out of whack and look at what we are becoming. It's sad.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Pjfan, my point was self-contained and self-evident, nothing was implied so no clarification is needed.
Thirtybills, I get what you are saying, but I don't think the comparison to Muslims is all that valid. The reason folks get upset with that is that Muslim is not the primary descriptor for the people in question when they belong to terrorists groups, it is secondary. What would you have the thread names that deal with the large and considerable problem of police brutality be? What substitute for each of the five examples would you give that would be more sensitive.
I think you the comparison is valid. The Muslim faith is being attacked and it is the sensationalized cases that are used as support and ammunition for the assertions that are being made- just the same as the police profession is being attacked. In both scenarios, good people are unjustly painted with the same brush through association with a tiny representation of its population.
If you were to be fair, you would acknowledge that this is the case. Don't make me go back through the countless threads to offer 1,000 (or more) very disparaging remarks made- by good people no less- that simply fail to keep things in perspective by generalizing to a degree that borders on reckless. And this has occurred on a forum where people are generally well spoken and reasonable. Imagine the ideas being formulated in circles where people do not practice critical thinking? I can imagine... think of the youtube video submission a dozen or so posts back where mindless idiots were marching through the streets chanting "We want dead cops."
Remember... I have said that there is a racial inequality; however, I don't think that the police are solely responsible for this fact. Socioeconomics has much more to do with the racial inequalities we bear witness to. And yes... this is a problem, but it cannot be solved by police patience. Look to your social programming for answers... not the police at the point of a crime.
Remember also that in the cases where excessive force was used... I have said police need to be held accountable. I am not an advocate of a police force operating with impunity. I am saddened and angry with the 12 year old case (and some others- namely Kelly Thomas); yet at the same time, I understand Wilson's response in the Brown case. Each case is a unique case and compared to the countless good police work that is happening right at this moment... it is not prudent to suggest a disturbing trend is occurring and generating a groundswell of support for the notion that cops are out of control.
As for the exercise you have requested of me (I offered only 4 thread titles):
1. another death, police not indicted- "questionable finding in homicide case involving cop" (exaggeration exercised here with 'another'- implication? happens so much we shouldn't be surprised... just like the thread 'another gun death in USA').
2. police abuse- there's no need for such a general and inflammatory thread when each case presented in it also has its unique thread as well. If each case was presented in this thread alone... then the thread title would be fine.
3. hands up don't shoot- fair enough... however, given it's in the midst of several others it has the effect of piling on.
4. police shoot kid in Cleveland- "police man shoots kid in Cleveland" (the other thread title makes it sound as if a group of police were responsible for the event when it was one poor officer... again, a broad statement that implicates many).
Good post! I don't think the changes improve the thread titles much. "Questionable finding in homicide case involving cop" completely ignores the entirely undeniable tendancy of cops to not be indicted time and time again when evidence enough exists to go trial. The addition of man on the last one does the same, it subtracts what blame is owed to his partner and department for not managing him properly, and the blame that followed when the police system in general rallied behind him to offer support and protect him from indictment. As Drowned noted in a great post, the failure of hundreds of thousands of police officers to report the improper behavior rhey witness gives them an amount of culpability. Was every Nazi soldier and SS member a torturer and murderer? No, but do they all share a slice of the responsibility for what happened in front of them? Yes, of course they do.
Good post! I don't think the changes improve the thread titles much. "Questionable finding in homicide case involving cop" completely ignores the entirely undeniable tendancy of cops to not be indicted time and time again when evidence enough exists to go trial.
The addition of man on the last one does the same, it subtracts what blame is owed to his partner and department for not managing him properly, and the blame that followed when the police system in general rallied behind him to offer support and protect him from indictment.
As Drowned noted in a great post, the failure of hundreds of thousands of police officers to report the improper behavior rhey witness gives them an amount of culpability. Was every Nazi soldier and SS member a torturer and murderer? No, but do they all share a slice of the responsibility for what happened in front of them? Yes, of course they do.
I read a great book (dry... but super informative) called Ordinary Men. It detailed a German Reserve Police Battalion that was deployed to 'cleanse' a town of its Jews.
The unit never knew what it was going to do as it suited up and reported for duty, but the details were laid out once they were in uniform, armed, in formation, and given their mandate. The men were chagrined, but the structural order of the military and the pressures upon them left them feeling powerless and they carried out their distasteful orders- many lamenting this after the fact.
Essentially, the book tries to detail why the men carried out their orders. It's just not so simple as it might seem. Referencing various psychological and sociological theories as well as significant studies (such as the Stanford electrical shock study)... among several findings it suggests that people within clinical or institutional settings conform very quickly.
What am I saying? I guess I'm agreeing with you to some degree that they do "share a slice of the responsibility"; however, it is the statistical exception that has an individual break free from the systemic structures to do the right thing. As brave as these individuals are... it doesn't mean the others that haven't are willfully ignorant or ill-spirited- it means they are human and susceptible to human nature.
Oh hell yeah there is some powerful psychology going on with conformity. I read one, not dry but disorganized, called "Seduced by Hitler" that dealt with the same issue across all facets of German and European society. I did a research paper on the Stanford experiment, it's a crazy and very interesting topic. It really defines for me what the utmost expression of courage is, to stand against your peers.
Comments
Wanna hear mine?
The Serpico post is pure common sense and offers realistic and achievable measures to ensure a solid, professional and highly regarded police force.
www.headstonesband.com
I live my life a quarter mile at a time. And by this Beavis and Butthead motto.
There are some really good idealistic points with Serpico. Quite honestly I don't have it in me to really write out my feelings on it, plus my city is a completely different animal. I don't care what anyone says, Any working Police will tell you policing is completely different from city to city and area to area. All I can say is I feel there are some really scary times ahead of us with this country on this issue. Ironically the people that will be effected the most, other than more assassinated cops, will be the people who live in Low income areas. Simply put, there will now be A LOT less cops willing to stick their neck's out or career's out to do what police officers are trained and ingrained to do….that is run towards danger and threats, not away from it or wait minutes for backup which most of the time it will be too late. It's takes a special person to run towards danger and not away from it. I have witness numerous rookie coppers quit after a shift when thing got REAL.
It has not been easy the past month dealing with protesters yelling at the top of their lungs 6 inches from my face their hateful rhetoric , I won't get into exactly what is being said, but I am sure you have heard some of it on the news. The past 3 days its been that much more difficult, but freedom of speech is what this country is all about…I am a firm believer in that. However, The protesters yesterday at the home of one of the fallen and today walking the streets of NYC should be ashamed of themselves, but that's just my opinion which I am allowed to have out of uniform.
My opinion from todays protest….We have many misguided trustafarian type, clueless college age kids that have never stepped one foot in the hood and have never been the victim of a heinous crime. Attitudes change real quick when things get REAL…. I see it all the time. My favorite from last week was when a white 20 yr old female had her iPhone Strong Arm Robbed from her while she was protesting down Michigan Ave holding a sign "AFRICAN AMERICANS will get back at KILLER WHITE COPS". She came running up to me in a panic relaying her story. So I asked for a detailed description of said offender and she just didn't have it in her to give it to me. All I could get out of her was that the offender was a ??? Male that was skinny and between 5'9-5"11 w/ no clothing description given at this time. I felt like a idiot (well not really:)putting that vague flash message out on the radio as we are required to do so one of us could possibly collar this mope.. I really should share my black partner's thoughts on this whole situation with you guys, but that will probably get me kicked off this site…. Anyhow, back to work…..BE SAFE and hug someone you LOVE and little tighter today, I know I will.
Happy BDay EM
Canada doesn't feature the same inherent threats as the US does: no guns, very little poverty, and no blatant racism. I'd rather be an underwater welder than a cop in the US.
The people that I associate with never speak poorly of the police. The amount of disrespect the US faction of the 10C 'generally' has for it's working police is shocking. Why would young people be interested in law enforcement when it seems to be viewed it so negatively?
Further, I feel that the Canadian police (the RCMP anyways) are paid reasonably well and generously compared to our southern counterparts.
Of course any or all of the above could be wrong!
I wish that teachers and cops were screened better and paid more than Senators and bankers. That alone would nearly solve our crime and punishment issues.
WAAR Media has received the following statement from a current NYPD Police Officer under the condition of anonymity. Please be advised the post contains strong language and profanity which though not typical of WAAR posts, we felt was important to post in a version that was unedited.
* Al Sharpton’s name is left as it was typed as NYPD officers sometimes refer to Mr. Sharpton as the Sharp ton.
When I was a kid I’d see my dad come home with his gun and shield, and I was beyond intrigued. He was not only my hero, but the city’s. I couldn’t wait to grow up and be a cop. Just like my dad and my older brother. I didn’t know what the pay or the benefits were, I just wanted to help people. Fast forward 20+ years and here I am. Except I’m no ones hero, actually I’m the enemy.
It wasn’t until I graduated the academy and went out on the street I realized, wow, where the fuck am I? Dead bodies, homicides, drugs, guns. At first it was fun. A cat and mouse game. I get the bad guy off the street and it saves the city. As the years progressed and the neighborhoods I worked in got worse, slowly that bad guy I hunted transitioned. He was no longer a guy with a gun in his baggy pants, he was me. I was hated. By every single person I encountered. No matter what I did.
There were days I’d get my ass kicked. Days I’d get murderers and rapists off the street. It didn’t matter. I was a white Irish cop, the devil. It didn’t matter I tried in vain to give CPR to a dying baby, I was still the enemy a minute later. But at the end of the day the bad guys still feared us and that’s all that mattered.
Fast forward to the liberal anti-cop movement. City councils, CCRB, Al Sharp ton. Nobody gave a fuck that every night I saw a different black man take a bullet, they just cared that it was not mine. Now I get in trouble for cursing. What? If your wrestling with a mope with a gun are you gonna curse? Are you gonna fight back? Of course cause I’m human. Suddenly though, I can’t even be human. Those rights that are demanded by these protesters, well they’re everyone’s but mine.
I swore I’d never become that cop. That old, angry, numb socially uncouth cop. Well now I make that cop look like mother Theresa. Theres only so much a person can take before they shut down. No one calls 911 for good things. It’s a daily roller coaster of bad to horrific and it never gets better.
You take this job and you know there’s a chance you can die, obviously. But you think of it as, “OK , I’m in this gun battle with a bank robber and I die in glory.” You don’t sign up for “I’m gonna be sitting in my patrol car eating lunch and get executed from behind.” Give me a chance. A chance to fight back you fuckin coward. They never had a chance. And it eats me up inside.
I’m sick over it. I didn’t know them but I know them. They’re me. I’m them. I play it over and over again in my head and it makes me sick. Yeah that heartless animal murdered them, but he didn’t act alone. The city of New York run by its disgrace of a Mayor, di Blasio murdered them too. Here’s a man who stands in front of his city and tells them he’s afraid his son will get killed by a cop, all the while he has cops guarding his son 24/7. He enticed a race war. He allows a city to protest for a criminal and chant they want dead cops. Well they got what they wanted didn’t they? Right before Christmas, 2 funerals. A husband, a father, a son.
Every single day at work I encounter real bad guys. And guess what? They know they’ve won. They know we are hesitant. That fear is gone. Now that fear is in us. I have two little kids at home. I’m gonna leave them parentless for what? A city that hates me? Condemns me? Leave my spouse a single parent for a city that spits on me? It’s not worth it anymore.
I don’t know what’s going to happen but I do know this. You can curse us, spit on us, even fight us, but the day you kill us is the day you awake a sleeping giant. We were executed. We won’t be executed again. We are in hell right now, but if you think we are gonna sit back and get murdered you’re wrong. Their blood is on di Blasios hands. He has single handily divided the city. Not just black and white but black and blue. He stands next to Sharp ton, a man who has professed his anti-white anti-Semitic rants for decades. It’s egregious. Despicable. It’s almost like I’m in a different world. When the fuck did I become the bad guy? When the fuck did they let bad guys run the city?
So I never got to become that hero like my dad. But I got to share the same uniform as 2 of them-Ramos and Liu. Remember their names. They were murdered by the city of New York. The great city that I swore to protect, that never protected us back. Their execution will live heavy in my heart forever. I’ve officially lost my faith in mankind. But I haven’t yet lost my faith in God. And as I get dressed every day and put my vest on, I say a prayer to God, “Lead us to a place, guide us with your grace, to a place where we’ll be safe.” I don’t need to be a hero anymore, I just want to go home.
Both statements are stretching away from reality just as far as folks who "hate cops". Everything shouldn't be so damn black and white that criticism of brutality is considered equal to hatred and reason to lay blame on everyone for the actions of one crazy person.
Was a pretty good rant until it was meddled with god shit.
If it was just 'the criticism of brutality'... then the countless criticisms would have been directed at, for example, Officer Wilson and the specific cases of brutality. The ones I read consistently said 'police' and were careless to discern the overwhelming majority of good police officers from the actions of a few poorly performing ones.
As such, the countless and mindless idiots that simply cannot discern for themselves have been swept up in the misled wave of animosity towards law enforcement.
I thought it was italicized not asterisk?
Say what you will, but many if not most of the comments I read here were 'careless' in nature. Look at the thread titles for examples of what I am saying: another death, police not indicted... police abuse... hands up don't shoot... police shoot kid in Cleveland... etc.
and your point is?
Some have a background where they legitimately might be distrustful of police. Many others however, do not... and speak from a vantage point where they should remain much more objective.
It's funny... some of the same people so quick to demonize police 'in general' are some of the loudest people defending Muslims 'in general' whenever IS beheadings or similar outlandish behaviour by some practicing the Muslim faith are under the microscope.
It seems they can recognize the error of making broad sweeping statements and how damaging such can be for the overwhelming majority of peaceful people practicing a faith... yet fail to see how similar broad sweeping statements can be just as damaging to the overwhelming majority of good, honest, hard working people practicing a profession.
Thirtybills, I get what you are saying, but I don't think the comparison to Muslims is all that valid. The reason folks get upset with that is that Muslim is not the primary descriptor for the people in question when they belong to terrorists groups, it is secondary. What would you have the thread names that deal with the large and considerable problem of police brutality be? What substitute for each of the five examples would you give that would be more sensitive.
Excellent question, Paulonius. I'd very much like to know the answer to it.
NYPD don't get paid shit to start off with. Even if you get promoted, it's not like they're making lawyer bank. You have to truly WANT to be a cop, or you're just hanging your future on the early retirement benefit.
LIVEFOOTSTEPS.ORG/USER/?USR=435
to answer your question about cops in Canad it depends on what province you are a cop in.
the ave is 60 to 70 k a year plus benefits.
New RCMP constables receive a base salary of $48,946. Usually after about 36 months of service, they make approximately $79,308 a year.
Cadets in training with the Toronto Police Service can expect to start at $53,605 per year and advance to $59,574 as a 4th class constable. (1st class constables make $85,106.)
This is true. Same with teachers. We pay poor teacher salaries and then wonder why our educational system is ranked so relatively low for a country with our wealth. Our priorities in the U.S. are all out of whack and look at what we are becoming. It's sad.
I think you the comparison is valid. The Muslim faith is being attacked and it is the sensationalized cases that are used as support and ammunition for the assertions that are being made- just the same as the police profession is being attacked. In both scenarios, good people are unjustly painted with the same brush through association with a tiny representation of its population.
If you were to be fair, you would acknowledge that this is the case. Don't make me go back through the countless threads to offer 1,000 (or more) very disparaging remarks made- by good people no less- that simply fail to keep things in perspective by generalizing to a degree that borders on reckless. And this has occurred on a forum where people are generally well spoken and reasonable. Imagine the ideas being formulated in circles where people do not practice critical thinking? I can imagine... think of the youtube video submission a dozen or so posts back where mindless idiots were marching through the streets chanting "We want dead cops."
Remember... I have said that there is a racial inequality; however, I don't think that the police are solely responsible for this fact. Socioeconomics has much more to do with the racial inequalities we bear witness to. And yes... this is a problem, but it cannot be solved by police patience. Look to your social programming for answers... not the police at the point of a crime.
Remember also that in the cases where excessive force was used... I have said police need to be held accountable. I am not an advocate of a police force operating with impunity. I am saddened and angry with the 12 year old case (and some others- namely Kelly Thomas); yet at the same time, I understand Wilson's response in the Brown case. Each case is a unique case and compared to the countless good police work that is happening right at this moment... it is not prudent to suggest a disturbing trend is occurring and generating a groundswell of support for the notion that cops are out of control.
As for the exercise you have requested of me (I offered only 4 thread titles):
1. another death, police not indicted- "questionable finding in homicide case involving cop" (exaggeration exercised here with 'another'- implication? happens so much we shouldn't be surprised... just like the thread 'another gun death in USA').
2. police abuse- there's no need for such a general and inflammatory thread when each case presented in it also has its unique thread as well. If each case was presented in this thread alone... then the thread title would be fine.
3. hands up don't shoot- fair enough... however, given it's in the midst of several others it has the effect of piling on.
4. police shoot kid in Cleveland- "police man shoots kid in Cleveland" (the other thread title makes it sound as if a group of police were responsible for the event when it was one poor officer... again, a broad statement that implicates many).
* Sorry for long post.
The addition of man on the last one does the same, it subtracts what blame is owed to his partner and department for not managing him properly, and the blame that followed when the police system in general rallied behind him to offer support and protect him from indictment.
As Drowned noted in a great post, the failure of hundreds of thousands of police officers to report the improper behavior rhey witness gives them an amount of culpability. Was every Nazi soldier and SS member a torturer and murderer? No, but do they all share a slice of the responsibility for what happened in front of them? Yes, of course they do.
I read a great book (dry... but super informative) called Ordinary Men. It detailed a German Reserve Police Battalion that was deployed to 'cleanse' a town of its Jews.
The unit never knew what it was going to do as it suited up and reported for duty, but the details were laid out once they were in uniform, armed, in formation, and given their mandate. The men were chagrined, but the structural order of the military and the pressures upon them left them feeling powerless and they carried out their distasteful orders- many lamenting this after the fact.
Essentially, the book tries to detail why the men carried out their orders. It's just not so simple as it might seem. Referencing various psychological and sociological theories as well as significant studies (such as the Stanford electrical shock study)... among several findings it suggests that people within clinical or institutional settings conform very quickly.
What am I saying? I guess I'm agreeing with you to some degree that they do "share a slice of the responsibility"; however, it is the statistical exception that has an individual break free from the systemic structures to do the right thing. As brave as these individuals are... it doesn't mean the others that haven't are willfully ignorant or ill-spirited- it means they are human and susceptible to human nature.