BIlly Corgan talks shit on PJ on Howard Stern show..

lolobugg

cp3iverson said:

Billy's definitely smart. This is the most he's been talked about in a decade.

crafty S.O.B.-
he even got KAT to step in.
)

cp3iverson

PJ definitely evolved. I remember MTV News getting the public's opinion as a segment.

Right now their changes are less extreme but i think Billy's anger is that they're still doing things that he can no longer do.

RS151862

lolobugg said:

crafty S.O.B.-
he even got KAT to step in.
)

Kat was not in favor of any thread title change tom foolery. I had no idea Billy Corgan would inspire so much debate.

callen

The Juggler said:

TJ25487 said:

As far as Pearl Jam evolving or being experimental, others have touched on it here in the fact that they have been evolving their whole career. Making different sounding albums one after another. That is why they have lost so many listeners from the early days as most people would rather have them remake Ten over and over again (think Nickelback here). I would have left a long time ago. Are every one of there releases going to be the second coming? No but I sure as hell can put Backspacer on and enjoy the hell out of it and L-Bolt gives me Yield like feelings which I love. Peace!

see that's the thing. i'd love for them to go back to making different sounding albums that may end up alienating and losing more people. that's when they were at their best. problem is, i believe they've tried to do the opposite over the last decade by making more mainstream sounding music to draw in a bigger audience......the results have been mixed. mostly average to good albums (and backspacer) that sound cool live....but ultimately are more inconsistent and less challenging than their best work.

Agree, why we get Come Back and Sirens.

HughFreakingDillon

Last-12-Exit said:

The Juggler said:

Last-12-Exit said:

Not at all. I've said several times that I like a lot of the SP music. Melon Collie is a brilliant CD. Also, in my opinion, none of the SP albums can compare to any of the PJ albums. And when it comes to live shows, there's no comparison. Why are you insisting on saying my feelings are hurt? I disagree with corgans assessment of himself. The SP are not an influential band. Pearl jam is definitely not as relevant as they were in the mid to late 90's, but they've always been more relevant as the SP.

If you're only argument for corgan is that LB isn't a great CD, then there's not much there. As I've said, several times, the smashing pumpkins haven't written a good album in a long time.

i don't think you understand the argument. you seem so caught up in being hurt by what corgan said and wanting to bash him that it's clouding your mind. obviously pj is the better band. don't be so insecure about that where you feel the need to defend them so much.

my thing is his assessment of the foos, while accurate, should've been the same assessment of pj instead of "they don't have the songs." obviously pj has the songs. they just, in my mind, havn't evolved as much as i've liked over the last 10 years or so. that's something a lot of people have been saying for years even before corgan said it.


i'm actually having a hard time wrapping my head around you thinking lightning bolt is a "great" album, though. you really think that? i mean do you put it on the same level as any of their first 5 albums? they're all great. tough to be much better than great, right?

Ok. You agree with corgan. That's great. I don't. And no, my feelings were not hurt by what he said. I'm not sure why you keep saying that. I simply disagee with his assessment of himself and of pearl jam.

trying to get a rise out of you.

and anyone who says "obviously (this band) is better than (this band)" doesn't understand the meaning behind subjectivity. there is no fact in opinion.

lolobugg

RS151862 said:

lolobugg said:

crafty S.O.B.-
he even got KAT to step in.
)

Kat was not in favor of any thread title change tom foolery. I had no idea Billy Corgan would inspire so much debate.

he's still polarizing after all these years.
liked that OFF-cial title, though

SD48277

lolobugg said:

RS151862 said:

lolobugg said:

crafty S.O.B.-
he even got KAT to step in.
)

Kat was not in favor of any thread title change tom foolery. I had no idea Billy Corgan would inspire so much debate.

he's still polarizing after all these years.
liked that OFF-cial title, though

BI-lly

lolobugg

SD48277 said:

lolobugg said:

RS151862 said:

lolobugg said:

crafty S.O.B.-
he even got KAT to step in.
)

Kat was not in favor of any thread title change tom foolery. I had no idea Billy Corgan would inspire so much debate.

he's still polarizing after all these years.
liked that OFF-cial title, though

BI-lly

)

facepollution

cp3iverson said:

PJ definitely evolved. I remember MTV News getting the public's opinion as a segment.

Right now their changes are less extreme but i think Billy's anger is that they're still doing things that he can no longer do.

What are they doing that he can no longer do? I think his issue is that their popularity has remained, despite the fact they haven't really evolved much, musically speaking.

I kind of get where he's coming from. In the (fairly) brief history of rock music, a band had their heyday, then they either broke up, or they retained their popularity through nothing other than nostalgia. When you think of bands from the 60's, 70's, 80's - most of them split up long ago, and those still going are really only living on past glories. His point is really a case of relevance - and his belief is that if a band isn't striving to break new ground, they have resigned themselves to the nostalgia circuit.

To be honest I don't find his comments all that odd, without his desire to innovate we never would have had Siamese Dream or Mellon Collie - the leaps he made as a musician between those first few record were incredible. Adore came at an awkward time, because with the rise of acts like the Prodigy, everyone was convinced that electronic music was the future - the amount of bands who suddenly started using electronic beats and samples - it was pretty cringe worthy. And I don't think Billy ever really got past that. Just as Pearl Jam can still write a song as mainstream as Sirens, I have no doubt Billy Corgan could write something just as mainstream as Today - but his desire to remain true to his ideals just won't let him.

CharlieP

The guy believes that art is a competition....enough said

facepollution

CharlieP said:

The guy believes that art is a competition....enough said

I think it's more multifaceted than that. He's talking about multi-millionaire musicians stretching themselves. Honestly I don't think anyone 100% buys into the notion that ALL music is art - if we were going by that idea we would all have to concede that Justin Bieber may in fact be making honest art.

my2hands

Kat just wanted to make sure we stayed on task flaming this jackass lol

facepollution

Last-12-Exit said:

tominzinga said:

facepollution said:

Last-12-Exit said:

Also, in my opinion, none of the SP albums can compare to any of the PJ albums.

Oh come on, Siamese Dream, SIAMESE DREAM! That album is absolutely airtight perfection.

I think I connect with Pearl Jam more on a lyrical basis, and Eddie is by far the better singer, but the musicianship on Siamese Dream is insanely good.

gotta agree here, siamese is a classic

I'm happy for you. Great CD. If I had to put a Pj CD up against it, Vitalogy for example (only because I don't know when Siamese dreams was released.) Song for song, I'm taking Vitalogy.

Fair play, I'd take Vitalogy lyrically and for Ed's vocals, but the song structures/ musicianship on Siamese Dream are easily a cut above in my book.

Peacefrog1975

CharlieP said:

The guy believes that art is a competition....enough said

Great point Charlie!

facepollution

Peacefrog1975 said:

CharlieP said:

The guy believes that art is a competition....enough said

Great point Charlie!

That's a cop out argument, we ALL compare music one way or another.

ikiT

Actually, because he's a really good interviewer, Howard led him down the competition path.

demetrios

whispering hands

Soooooo... We can tell Corigan to go fuck himself in THIS thread then??

OMGkatwoman

ckravitz

Seriously, at Billy's age, bashing contemporaries? It's sort of sad really. Who beyond the (mental) age of 16 doesn't just say "no comment" or just avoid making comments about other famous people....It takes significantly more maturity and discretion quite frankly.

my2hands

ckravitz said:

Seriously, at Billy's age, bashing contemporaries? It's sort of sad really. Who beyond the (mental) age of 16 doesn't just say "no comment" or just avoid making comments about other famous people....It takes significantly more maturity and discretion quite frankly.

Given2Fly-Fish

TheLuckyOnes said:

Awesome!!!

KV4053

my2hands said:

Let me ask this fairly obvious question since I keep hearing people mentioning "pushing boundaries" and "experimenting"...

What is wrong with making straight up badass rock & roll? You guys do realize that is dying fast right? And as soon as PJ made some weird shit you guys would be blasting them... frankly there are few if any bands that have the range of pearl jam, period...

This is why I love gaslight anthem, they make straight up rock records and don't apologize for it...

want to hear some weird shit, pick up a radiohead record... want to hear some badass rock & roll, pick up a pearl jam record

"Experimentation", "pushing boundaries", and "expanding your sound" doesn't automatically make something good or "genius" like Billy boy would like to think...

Eddie Vedder made a ukulele record for god's sake... who the fuck does that?

Great points!

Peacefrog1975

facepollution said:

Peacefrog1975 said:

CharlieP said:

The guy believes that art is a competition....enough said

Great point Charlie!

That's a cop out argument, we ALL compare music one way or another.

Compare and Compete are two different words…

igotid88

And Billy never said PJ didn't evolve. He said that about the Foo Fighters. So I don't know why the people defending him went there. He said PJ didn't have the songs. Which of course is not true.

The Juggler

double post

The Juggler

TJ25487 said:

The Juggler said:

TJ25487 said:

As far as Pearl Jam evolving or being experimental, others have touched on it here in the fact that they have been evolving their whole career. Making different sounding albums one after another. That is why they have lost so many listeners from the early days as most people would rather have them remake Ten over and over again (think Nickelback here). I would have left a long time ago. Are every one of there releases going to be the second coming? No but I sure as hell can put Backspacer on and enjoy the hell out of it and L-Bolt gives me Yield like feelings which I love. Peace!

see that's the thing. i'd love for them to go back to making different sounding albums that may end up alienating and losing more people. that's when they were at their best. problem is, i believe they've tried to do the opposite over the last decade by making more mainstream sounding music to draw in a bigger audience......the results have been mixed. mostly average to good albums (and backspacer) that sound cool live....but ultimately are more inconsistent and less challenging than their best work.

I hear ya Juggler but you may be out of luck. You look at other long running legendary bands such as The Beatles, U2 , The Who, Stones etc. and you will see an album or 2 of experimentation but then it's back to doing what they are most comfortable doing. I guess thats when you keep your ears peeled for the next groundbreaking band to hit?

I don't know man. all the b sides and leaks from the last decade plus tells me they are leaving their best stuff off these records. like someone else said, maybe it's about switching producers or something...

cincybearcat

All this is comical. It's his opinion.

Smashing pumpkins made some terrific music. In my opinion Pear Jam is the best in the business short term and long term. Albums and live. Story telling and face melting. They have it all.

Really the interview didn't seem that bad. Hes wrong...in my opinion...but he's entitled to his opinion and entitled to be wrong

HughFreakingDillon

of course he's entitled to his opinion.........but we're entitled to discuss it without being belittled for doing so. seems to me some people seem to think he has a legitimate point, others do not. that's a discussion. pretty simple really.

I don't understand why people chime in if they think doing so is so "below them".

HughFreakingDillon

The Juggler said:

TJ25487 said:

The Juggler said:

TJ25487 said:

As far as Pearl Jam evolving or being experimental, others have touched on it here in the fact that they have been evolving their whole career. Making different sounding albums one after another. That is why they have lost so many listeners from the early days as most people would rather have them remake Ten over and over again (think Nickelback here). I would have left a long time ago. Are every one of there releases going to be the second coming? No but I sure as hell can put Backspacer on and enjoy the hell out of it and L-Bolt gives me Yield like feelings which I love. Peace!

see that's the thing. i'd love for them to go back to making different sounding albums that may end up alienating and losing more people. that's when they were at their best. problem is, i believe they've tried to do the opposite over the last decade by making more mainstream sounding music to draw in a bigger audience......the results have been mixed. mostly average to good albums (and backspacer) that sound cool live....but ultimately are more inconsistent and less challenging than their best work.

I hear ya Juggler but you may be out of luck. You look at other long running legendary bands such as The Beatles, U2 , The Who, Stones etc. and you will see an album or 2 of experimentation but then it's back to doing what they are most comfortable doing. I guess thats when you keep your ears peeled for the next groundbreaking band to hit?

I don't know man. all the b sides and leaks from the last decade plus tells me they are leaving their best stuff off these records. like someone else said, maybe it's about switching producers or something...

the last two leaks are awesome songs. But put them in context. would they actually fit on Avocado? do we think they are superior just because of some type of hindsight? maybe, maybe not. But the band is no longer fighting putting out the best songs. they are putting out the songs that fit together. as Ed said in the Lost Dogs liner notes about one track that escapes me at the moment, the quote was something like this "suffered from 'one of these is not like the other' syndrome". that's all it boils down to with these guys now. great songs can be left off because they don't fit with the rest.

would Angel have fit on Ten or VS? no, but it's a great song. I also happen to love Happy When I'm Crying. But it doesn't belong on any album, really. Same with Santa Cruz, or Strangest Tribe, or Driftin'.

I think at some point we'll be getting a Stray Cats, but we'll have to wait and see until then.