Sorry Billy, the smashing pumpkins not only are NOT one of the 2 most influential bands from the 90's, you're barely in the top 10. Maybe #10.
I'll repeat, he's a fucking douche bag
Lol all you guys saying he's a douche bag.. I dont think what he said was that bad..mist actually true but yes billy does like to push buttons..pumpkins where definitely top 5 out of 90s..they had their own sound and it ripped.
haha....people's feelings are so easily hurt around here.
why can't people have a discussion without people claiming that everyone is butthurt over this? very few of us are taking it personally, just voicing our opinion about his statements. nothing more.
Sorry Billy, the smashing pumpkins not only are NOT one of the 2 most influential bands from the 90's, you're barely in the top 10. Maybe #10.
I'll repeat, he's a fucking douche bag
Lol all you guys saying he's a douche bag.. I dont think what he said was that bad..mist actually true but yes billy does like to push buttons..pumpkins where definitely top 5 out of 90s..they had their own sound and it ripped.
haha....people's feelings are so easily hurt around here.
why can't people have a discussion without people claiming that everyone is butthurt over this? very few of us are taking it personally, just voicing our opinion about his statements. nothing more.
this is the Pearl Jam message board afterall... perhaps we should go back to talking about how many different color Fixer singles we have? lol
nobody's feelings are hurt... they are just calling an asshole an asshole... and Billy Corgan is an asshole
Sorry Billy, the smashing pumpkins not only are NOT one of the 2 most influential bands from the 90's, you're barely in the top 10. Maybe #10.
I'll repeat, he's a fucking douche bag
Lol all you guys saying he's a douche bag.. I dont think what he said was that bad..mist actually true but yes billy does like to push buttons..pumpkins where definitely top 5 out of 90s..they had their own sound and it ripped.
haha....people's feelings are so easily hurt around here.
why can't people have a discussion without people claiming that everyone is butthurt over this? very few of us are taking it personally, just voicing our opinion about his statements. nothing more.
this is the Pearl Jam message board afterall... perhaps we should go back to talking about how many different color Fixer singles we have? lol
nobody's feelings are hurt... they are just calling an asshole an asshole... and Billy Corgan is an asshole
I'm not advocating a Pharrell or Timbaland produced LP, but, to me, the Brendan O Brien, Adam Kaspar, Pearl Jam production sounds like they're doing what they want without being challenged. Binaural is the only "diffferent" sounding record.
If they collaborated with Rick Rubin or Daniel Lanois, or Steve Albini, they'd evolve, and I'd be stoked.
There's nothing wrong with what they're doing now, but just think of the possibilities.
First of all, Billy and the Pumpkins were surrounded in controversy in the 90s. remember when their touring keyboardist died of a heroin overdose and Jimmy Chamberlain was arrested? The band couldn't keep it together and if you measure success and evolving then PJ has done that time and time again... Billy Corgan wrote many great songs throughout his career but I find him highly egotistical when stating PJ hasn't evolved. His latest albums are selfish in a sense that only himself, the artist, knows what the hell they mean...Teargarden by Kaliedyscope?? as a band and audience you shouldn't distance yourself from that... Also who in their right mind would ever collaborate let alone live w/ Courtney Love?? In summation, Billy Corgan is a goth/emo white dude from Chicago who wrote some catchy tunes in the 90s and thinks he's evolution in the flesh yet can't keep band members together because of his ego...SO MUCH FOR EVOLUTION...
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I'm not advocating a Pharrell or Timbaland produced LP, but, to me, the Brendan O Brien, Adam Kaspar, Pearl Jam production sounds like they're doing what they want without being challenged. Binaural is the only "diffferent" sounding record.
If they collaborated with Rick Rubin or Daniel Lanois, or Steve Albini, they'd evolve, and I'd be stoked.
There's nothing wrong with what they're doing now, but just think of the possibilities.
I disagree. No Code was incredibly polarizing and experimental. Going from Ten to VS was a huge difference in sound, I thought. The weirdo songs on Vitalogy was viewed as just fucking weird. then they got political (Riot Act and S/T). Then they went for short punky songs (S/T). Then they had fun (Backspacer). Then they did it all (LB).
To say this band hasn't evolved, for better or worse, in my mind, is saying you aren't paying attention. It ain't U2's Pop, mind you, but they are also not ACDC.
that being said, I'd like a different producer. when you stick with one producer too long, it all just ends up kind of sounding the same. Albini would be crazy. But he probably wouldn't do it! Rubin would be good. Not Lanois, though. Too slick. But they won't ever change from BoB, I don't think. he seems to think he's IN the band, and they seem to consider him in kind.
I'm not advocating a Pharrell or Timbaland produced LP, but, to me, the Brendan O Brien, Adam Kaspar, Pearl Jam production sounds like they're doing what they want without being challenged. Binaural is the only "diffferent" sounding record.
If they collaborated with Rick Rubin or Daniel Lanois, or Steve Albini, they'd evolve, and I'd be stoked.
There's nothing wrong with what they're doing now, but just think of the possibilities.
I disagree. No Code was incredibly polarizing and experimental. Going from Ten to VS was a huge difference in sound, I thought. The weirdo songs on Vitalogy was viewed as just fucking weird. then they got political (Riot Act and S/T). Then they went for short punky songs (S/T). Then they had fun (Backspacer). Then they did it all (LB).
To say this band hasn't evolved, for better or worse, in my mind, is saying you aren't paying attention. It ain't U2's Pop, mind you, but they are also not ACDC.
Yea I don't know how someone can say PJ hasn't evolved? They lost many fans because of they evolved. Even though BC said it about the Foos. I would like to see them work with a Rick Rubin or something. But you know the same people here who are agreeing with Billy will rag on that too.
I wonder what current rock bands Billy Corgan does actually rate? It seems that he thinks rock is dead, but there are bands like QOTSA, Death From Above 1979 and Royal Blood who are playing big riff rock and making it sound current, whilst still giving a nod to the past.
that being said, I'd like a different producer. when you stick with one producer too long, it all just ends up kind of sounding the same. Albini would be crazy. But he probably wouldn't do it! Rubin would be good. Not Lanois, though. Too slick. But they won't ever change from BoB, I don't think. he seems to think he's IN the band, and they seem to consider him in kind.
Butch Vig would be awesome.
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,312
Sorry Billy, the smashing pumpkins not only are NOT one of the 2 most influential bands from the 90's, you're barely in the top 10. Maybe #10.
I'll repeat, he's a fucking douche bag
Lol all you guys saying he's a douche bag.. I dont think what he said was that bad..mist actually true but yes billy does like to push buttons..pumpkins where definitely top 5 out of 90s..they had their own sound and it ripped.
haha....people's feelings are so easily hurt around here.
My feelings aren't at all hurt. Don't be silly. I 100% disagree with what he said. The smashing pumpkins certainly had an original sound. And some great cds. But they were far from influential. For him to proclaim the it was nirvana and him up there as the best of the 90's is borderline retarded.
I stand by what I said earlier. Billy corgan while a great songwriter, has a horrific voice. He's horrible live. If pearl jam didn't write another new song, they could still sell out tours for the next 10-15 years. The smashing pumpkins can't and Billy know that. CD for CD, pearl jam is just better.
And why now do some of you think that PJ hasn't evolved? Or changed and experimented? Do any of you remember Binaural and riot act? Avacado and BS were average at best. And LB is really good. Billy corgan hasn't wriiten a good CD since the turn of the century.
i think it's funny how in some arguments pearl jam fans will claim the popularity or number of records sold doesn't matter (for example: when britney spears' album sold more in yield's debut week. many other examples of this). yet with this argument, they defend pj by pointing out how popular they are on the touring circuit and how they can still put out #1 albums and stuff.
yeah i remember binaural and riot act. i also am aware that they came out 12 and 14 years ago. i don't think the band has evolved much at all in the decade and a half since. lb is a good album--but it's a pretty straight forward rock album. nothing too experimental or groundbreaking there for me. they're better than that and i am still holding out hope that they have another great album in them (all the b side leaks give me some hope).
but i really don't care what billy corgan says. he's always been a whiner and a baby. this isn't surprising. i liked the pumpkins back in the day and i actually like some of the stuff he put out in the early 2000's (i liked zwan). he hasn't done a lot of good stuff since....but neither has most of the bands from the 90's.
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,312
I'm not advocating a Pharrell or Timbaland produced LP, but, to me, the Brendan O Brien, Adam Kaspar, Pearl Jam production sounds like they're doing what they want without being challenged. Binaural is the only "diffferent" sounding record.
If they collaborated with Rick Rubin or Daniel Lanois, or Steve Albini, they'd evolve, and I'd be stoked.
There's nothing wrong with what they're doing now, but just think of the possibilities.
agreed. it's funny to see people citing avocado and backspacer as evidence that they've evolved. they evolved awesomely in the mid to late 90's and to a certain extent the early 2000's with binaural and riot act. i was hoping that would continue....since then they've kind of just took the easy road ----that being said, i love everything they've done, except backspacer. i just think they're better than a lot of the stuff they've put out over the last decade or so.
Let me ask this fairly obvious question since I keep hearing people mentioning "pushing boundaries" and "experimenting"...
What is wrong with making straight up badass rock & roll? You guys do realize that is dying fast right? And as soon as PJ made some weird shit you guys would be blasting them... frankly there are few if any bands that have the range of pearl jam, period...
This is why I love gaslight anthem, they make straight up rock records and don't apologize for it...
want to hear some weird shit, pick up a radiohead record... want to hear some badass rock & roll, pick up a pearl jam record
"Experimentation", "pushing boundaries", and "expanding your sound" doesn't automatically make something good or "genius" like Billy boy would like to think...
Eddie Vedder made a ukulele record for god's sake... who the fuck does that?
Let me ask this fairly obvious question since I keep hearing people mentioning "pushing boundaries" and "experimenting"...
What is wrong with making straight up badass rock & roll? You guys do realize that is dying fast right? And as soon as PJ made some weird shit you guys would be blasting them... frankly there are few if any bands that have the range of pearl jam, period...
why would people who want them to experiment a little blast them for putting out a more experimental record?
do you consider backspacer a "badass rock & roll" record?
Let me ask this fairly obvious question since I keep hearing people mentioning "pushing boundaries" and "experimenting"...
What is wrong with making straight up badass rock & roll? You guys do realize that is dying fast right? And as soon as PJ made some weird shit you guys would be blasting them... frankly there are few if any bands that have the range of pearl jam, period...
do you consider backspacer a "badass rock & roll" record?
I consider backspacer a straight up rock & roll record... do I consider it "badass" as a whole, no, are some songs "badass", yes... just because it isn't their best record doesn't matter to me in this discussion...
By the way, Backspacer is better than any album Billy Boy has put out in 15 years
I ask you, what is wrong with a rock band making rock records? Assuming you like rock music of course
Vitalogy was sort of experimental and turned off fans. Most everyone hates or doesn't understand Hey Foxymop. No Code wasn't well received by fans the first time. Binaural and Riot Act weren't as well. Ed does ukulele album. Doesn't get respect. They do SBM on LB. Not their usual sound, people here complain.
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,312
Let me ask this fairly obvious question since I keep hearing people mentioning "pushing boundaries" and "experimenting"...
What is wrong with making straight up badass rock & roll? You guys do realize that is dying fast right? And as soon as PJ made some weird shit you guys would be blasting them... frankly there are few if any bands that have the range of pearl jam, period...
do you consider backspacer a "badass rock & roll" record?
I consider backspacer a straight up rock & roll record... do I consider it "badass" as a whole, no, are some songs "badass", yes... just because it isn't their best record doesn't matter to me in this discussion...
By the way, Backspacer is better than any album Billy Boy has put out in 15 years
I ask you, what is wrong with a rock band making rock records? Assuming you like rock music of course
i consider backspacer a rock band's attempt at a pop/rock/mass appeal record that ultimately failed.
there's nothing wrong with a rock band making rock records. just as there's nothing wrong with rock bands making creative rock records that are a bit more challenging. give me vitalogy, no code, and yield over anything they've done in the last 15 years. that was the definition of a rock band, at it's creative peak.
and who cares if backspacer is better than anything billy corgan has done in 15 years? that's clearly not the point.
Post edited by The Juggler on
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,312
I remember Chris Cornell tried to "experiment" and "push his sound"...
and he still gets flamed for it... because that isn't Chris Cornell
Be yourself and don't fake the funk
why do you think he was "faking?" is it possible cornell wanted to experiment with a different sound? i personally didn't like it but i always respect any artist willing to take chances like that.
Oh God, it's music, it either moves you or it doesn't, no need to dissect everything. If it makes you feel anything, it's all good. And stop giving a shit about who says what about who. They're people just like us. Yes, Ed included.
Life's too short people. Listen to what you like, skip what you don't.
Unreal how some feel it's not ok to make a good CD because it isn't experimental enough. Lightning bolt is a great album. Not just ok. It's great. But I guess since there's not a harpsichord or an accordian on it, it's not taking enough risks.
Personally, I agree with my2hands. BS is Pearl Jams weakest albums and it's better than anything the smashing pumpkins or schmuck ladouche has written in 15 years.
Again, it's cool with me that corgan thinks he's a god amongst God's. I just think he's wrong. No matter how you slice it, the smashing pumpkins were never as good as pearl jam in any way. Pearl jam wrote better songs and are a flat out better live band.
The smashing pumpkins had 1 great CD in the 90's. The others range anywhere from good to above average because of a few hits. Every CD pearl jam released in the 90's ranged from great to iconic. Of course, this is just my opinion.
Oh God, it's music, it either moves you or it doesn't, no need to dissect everything. If it makes you feel anything, it's all good. And stop giving a shit about who says what about who. They're people just like us. Yes, Ed included.
Life's too short people. Listen to what you like, skip what you don't.
Well said, thank you!
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,312
Unreal how some feel it's not ok to make a good CD because it isn't experimental enough. Lightning bolt is a great album. Not just ok. It's great. But I guess since there's not a harpsichord or an accordian on it, it's not taking enough risks.
Personally, I agree with my2hands. BS is Pearl Jams weakest albums and it's better than anything the smashing pumpkins or schmuck ladouche has written in 15 years.
Again, it's cool with me that corgan thinks he's a god amongst God's. I just think he's wrong. No matter how you slice it, the smashing pumpkins were never as good as pearl jam in any way. Pearl jam wrote better songs and are a flat out better live band.
The smashing pumpkins had 1 great CD in the 90's. The others range anywhere from good to above average because of a few hits. Every CD pearl jam released in the 90's ranged from great to iconic. Of course, this is just my opinion.
oh my god. an album doesn't have to be experimental to be good. a lot of people just feel pj's recent albums haven't been as strong and would like a little more experimentation like they used to have back in the day. i think they were at their creative peak in the mid to late 90's and, in my opinion, those were clearly their best albums. those were truly great albums.
but music is subjective so if you want to go on record and call lighting bolt a "great" album---hey, that's on you, man.
and you seem to have some deep rooted hatred for the pumpkins and corgan. i think your feelings really are hurt. haha
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RD101189
A distant time, a distant space Posts: 454
Just a competitive sore loser who's not happy the Smashing Pumpkins aren't relevant anymore. What's this like the 18th line up of the Smashing Pumpkins due to Billy's egomania? In the end he doesn't matter anymore and PJ still does and it pisses him off that he's played his career wrong.
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nobody's feelings are hurt... they are just calling an asshole an asshole... and Billy Corgan is an asshole
www.headstonesband.com
If they collaborated with Rick Rubin or Daniel Lanois, or Steve Albini, they'd evolve, and I'd be stoked.
There's nothing wrong with what they're doing now, but just think of the possibilities.
The band couldn't keep it together and if you measure success and evolving then PJ has done that time and time again...
Billy Corgan wrote many great songs throughout his career but I find him highly egotistical when stating PJ hasn't evolved. His latest albums are selfish in a sense that only himself, the artist, knows what the hell they mean...Teargarden by Kaliedyscope?? as a band and audience you shouldn't distance yourself from that...
Also who in their right mind would ever collaborate let alone live w/ Courtney Love??
In summation, Billy Corgan is a goth/emo white dude from Chicago who wrote some catchy tunes in the 90s and thinks he's evolution in the flesh yet can't keep band members together because of his ego...SO MUCH FOR EVOLUTION...
To say this band hasn't evolved, for better or worse, in my mind, is saying you aren't paying attention. It ain't U2's Pop, mind you, but they are also not ACDC.
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Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
After zero, he completely butchered David Bowies Fame.
Billy Corgan's successes/failures have zero dependence on Eddie Vedder and Eddie Vedder's successes/failures have zero dependence on Billy Corgan.
I don't get this whole thing where people have to take sides....too many Stevie Janowskis on the board.
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
yeah i remember binaural and riot act. i also am aware that they came out 12 and 14 years ago. i don't think the band has evolved much at all in the decade and a half since. lb is a good album--but it's a pretty straight forward rock album. nothing too experimental or groundbreaking there for me. they're better than that and i am still holding out hope that they have another great album in them (all the b side leaks give me some hope).
but i really don't care what billy corgan says. he's always been a whiner and a baby. this isn't surprising. i liked the pumpkins back in the day and i actually like some of the stuff he put out in the early 2000's (i liked zwan). he hasn't done a lot of good stuff since....but neither has most of the bands from the 90's.
What is wrong with making straight up badass rock & roll? You guys do realize that is dying fast right? And as soon as PJ made some weird shit you guys would be blasting them... frankly there are few if any bands that have the range of pearl jam, period...
This is why I love gaslight anthem, they make straight up rock records and don't apologize for it...
want to hear some weird shit, pick up a radiohead record... want to hear some badass rock & roll, pick up a pearl jam record
"Experimentation", "pushing boundaries", and "expanding your sound" doesn't automatically make something good or "genius" like Billy boy would like to think...
Eddie Vedder made a ukulele record for god's sake... who the fuck does that?
do you consider backspacer a "badass rock & roll" record?
By the way, Backspacer is better than any album Billy Boy has put out in 15 years
I ask you, what is wrong with a rock band making rock records? Assuming you like rock music of course
and he still gets flamed for it... because that isn't Chris Cornell
Be yourself and don't fake the funk
there's nothing wrong with a rock band making rock records. just as there's nothing wrong with rock bands making creative rock records that are a bit more challenging. give me vitalogy, no code, and yield over anything they've done in the last 15 years. that was the definition of a rock band, at it's creative peak.
and who cares if backspacer is better than anything billy corgan has done in 15 years? that's clearly not the point.
Life's too short people. Listen to what you like, skip what you don't.
Personally, I agree with my2hands. BS is Pearl Jams weakest albums and it's better than anything the smashing pumpkins or schmuck ladouche has written in 15 years.
Again, it's cool with me that corgan thinks he's a god amongst God's. I just think he's wrong. No matter how you slice it, the smashing pumpkins were never as good as pearl jam in any way. Pearl jam wrote better songs and are a flat out better live band.
The smashing pumpkins had 1 great CD in the 90's. The others range anywhere from good to above average because of a few hits. Every CD pearl jam released in the 90's ranged from great to iconic. Of course, this is just my opinion.
an album doesn't have to be experimental to be good. a lot of people just feel pj's recent albums haven't been as strong and would like a little more experimentation like they used to have back in the day. i think they were at their creative peak in the mid to late 90's and, in my opinion, those were clearly their best albums. those were truly great albums.
but music is subjective so if you want to go on record and call lighting bolt a "great" album---hey, that's on you, man.
and you seem to have some deep rooted hatred for the pumpkins and corgan. i think your feelings really are hurt. haha
07/08/1998 - Phoenix, AZ
10/21/2000 - Phoenix, AZ
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10/22/2014 - Denver, CO
05/09/2022 - Phoenix, AZ
09/22/2022 - Denver, CO