How has time not been that great to PJ and what luck have they received? IMO Their legacy is top notch in the music industry not the publics as the general public doesn't understand the band and what they stand for. We do naturally blow their relevance out of proportion on this board because it is deserving of it. IMHO of course.
True, they do have quite a bit of respect in the industry, but I think the general public is equally important. The fact is they've not aged well to the majority of music fans and that includes people that are into similar music.
They've made alot of their own luck, but I could see where things could've turned out differently. Stuff like keeping virtually the same lineup and having a very devoted fanbase is incredibly lucky and has had a major impact on alot of the decisions they've made through the years.
ummmm, correct me if i am wrong, but in the last 12 months didnt they put out a #1 album and sell out arenas from Seattle, to Sao Paulo, to San Siro, to Syndey?
yeah, they havent aged well at all and will be on the casino circuit any day now... lol
6/26/98 & 6/27/98 - Alpine Valley, 10/9/00 - Allstate Arena - Rosemont, IL 6/18/2003 - United Center, 5/16/2006 - United Center, 5/17/2006 - United Center (7th row center, caught Eddie's pick), 6/29/2006 - Summerfest with Tom Petty, 8/24/2009 - United Center, 7/19/2013 - Wrigley Field, 10/3/2014 - St Louis, 10/17/2014 - Moline (GA), 10/20/2014 - Milwaukee, 5/14/2015 - Pete Townshend/EV, 8/20/16 & 8/22/16 Wrigley Field Part 2&3, 8/18/18 & 8/20/18 Wrigley Parts 4 & 5, 9/18/2022 - St Louis
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,312
i find it funny how bent out of shape you guys get over this nonsense. cobain said the same stuff about pj 20+ years ago.
Billy apparently thinks he's some combination of John Lennon and Jesus...
When asked about great contemporaries Robin suggested PJ Billy "NO, not even close" Howard "Why, would you say they're derivative?" Billy "Absolutely, the work speaks for itself... I don't think they have the songs" Howard "How have they lasted so long if they don't have the songs?" Billy "That's a mystery to me, I don't get it."
When asked about Ed Billy "We were friends at one point... A lot of people are transformed by fame. I knew one person, now there's another person"
he also went on to talk shit on Dave Grohl and the FF's
I must have just missed the Pearl Jam conversation, but right when I tuned in, Howard and Corgan were talking about Eddie. To be fair with the Eddie segment, he said Eddie was on Time magazine and that Eddie got to a much higher level of fame than himself, so maybe that does something to a person. Yes, still dickish... but what do we expect from this guy?
I'm sure his PJ views would have pissed me off... but to play devil's advocate, even PJ has said that they try to write really simple songs these days, especially with the last two albums, because they are easier to perform live. His Foo Fighters slams had to do with that band not evolving or changing their sound. I don't see how anybody could say that's the case with PJ, but from the limited Foo Fighters I've heard I can see where people think they're a one-style pony. During the time I was listening to Stern this morning, seems like Cobain was the only guy Corgan gave any props to.
Overall, from the little bit I heard on Howard today, Corgan does seem like a douche who thinks he deserves more street cred because he was banging Courtney Love prior to Cobain coming along... weird.
I'm not going to pretend I've heard/read every PJ interview - when did they say they were trying to write really simple songs?
Oh please let it rain today.
Those that can be trusted can change their mind.
I can't find any of my old smashing pumpkins CDs, buts that's okay. Whenever I want to hear them, I just take my wife's cat by the tail and spin him around. It's amazing, and totally like being at a smashing pumpkins concert.
I can't find any of my old smashing pumpkins CDs, buts that's okay. Whenever I want to hear them, I just take my wife's cat by the tail and spin him around. It's amazing, and totally like being at a smashing pumpkins concert.
I'm reporting you.
Though the comparison is correct if at some point you let go of the cat. The last time I saw SP, they did a half hour, full band bongo jam. I shit you not.
Billy apparently thinks he's some combination of John Lennon and Jesus...
When asked about great contemporaries Robin suggested PJ Billy "NO, not even close" Howard "Why, would you say they're derivative?" Billy "Absolutely, the work speaks for itself... I don't think they have the songs" Howard "How have they lasted so long if they don't have the songs?" Billy "That's a mystery to me, I don't get it."
When asked about Ed Billy "We were friends at one point... A lot of people are transformed by fame. I knew one person, now there's another person"
he also went on to talk shit on Dave Grohl and the FF's
I must have just missed the Pearl Jam conversation, but right when I tuned in, Howard and Corgan were talking about Eddie. To be fair with the Eddie segment, he said Eddie was on Time magazine and that Eddie got to a much higher level of fame than himself, so maybe that does something to a person. Yes, still dickish... but what do we expect from this guy?
I'm sure his PJ views would have pissed me off... but to play devil's advocate, even PJ has said that they try to write really simple songs these days, especially with the last two albums, because they are easier to perform live. His Foo Fighters slams had to do with that band not evolving or changing their sound. I don't see how anybody could say that's the case with PJ, but from the limited Foo Fighters I've heard I can see where people think they're a one-style pony. During the time I was listening to Stern this morning, seems like Cobain was the only guy Corgan gave any props to.
Overall, from the little bit I heard on Howard today, Corgan does seem like a douche who thinks he deserves more street cred because he was banging Courtney Love prior to Cobain coming along... weird.
I'm not going to pretend I've heard/read every PJ interview - when did they say they were trying to write really simple songs?
It was in PJ20 I think. Talking about how the earlier records are tougher to play live. I think Jeff commented that you can't phone in Even Flow.
=D> - to the more recent comments. Billy played on the same bill as PJ with the Chili Peppers and constantly has mentioned how awesome it was watching PJ in the wings before they went on. I find it so strange that some people on this board have admitted that they only listen to PJ. How can you not appreciate other music? I mean that is like eating the same thing everyday. PJ and the Pumpkins are two totally different bands but both saved my fucking life when i was a confused teenager. I will defend both till the end.
2000- Atlanta, GA: New Orleans, LA: Memphis, TN: Nashville, TN
2003- Raleigh, NC: Charlotte, NC: Atlanta, GA
2004- Asheville, NC (hometown show)
2006- Cincinnati, OH
2008- Columbia, SC
2009- Chicago, IL x 2 / Ed Vedder- Atlanta, GA x 2
2010- Bristow, VA
2011- Alpine Valley, WI (PJ20) x 2 / Ed Vedder- Chicago, IL
2012- Atlanta, GA
2013- Charlotte, NC
2014- Cincinnati, OH
2015- New York, NY
2016- Greenville, SC: Hampton, VA:: Columbia, SC: Raleigh, NC : Lexington, KY: Philly, PA 2: (Wrigley) Chicago, IL x 2 (holy shit): Temple of the Dog- Philly, PA
no one listens to the Smashing Pumpkins anymore. They are the musical equivalent of Tommy Hilfiger shirts. cheap crap that we all thought made us cool at the time
wow, that is a WEIRD comparison.
Lol, it is. Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness is fucking GENIUS. I don't like anything that Corgan has done recently though. "The Corgan Comeback" just isn't doing anything for me music wise... and his totally repellent personality is just the rotten cherry on the shit cake.
Mellon Collie is that. No band since Led Zeppelin can go from such quiet almost folk songs to outright metal. It is an amazing record and is a touchstone of my youth. That is the last word I will say on this topic.
2000- Atlanta, GA: New Orleans, LA: Memphis, TN: Nashville, TN
2003- Raleigh, NC: Charlotte, NC: Atlanta, GA
2004- Asheville, NC (hometown show)
2006- Cincinnati, OH
2008- Columbia, SC
2009- Chicago, IL x 2 / Ed Vedder- Atlanta, GA x 2
2010- Bristow, VA
2011- Alpine Valley, WI (PJ20) x 2 / Ed Vedder- Chicago, IL
2012- Atlanta, GA
2013- Charlotte, NC
2014- Cincinnati, OH
2015- New York, NY
2016- Greenville, SC: Hampton, VA:: Columbia, SC: Raleigh, NC : Lexington, KY: Philly, PA 2: (Wrigley) Chicago, IL x 2 (holy shit): Temple of the Dog- Philly, PA
after listening to the show I gotta say hes spot on with the foos, and in regards to his comments on PJ, I really didnt hear that much smack. Hes basically saying that Pearl Jam wasn't nearly as influential as the pumpkins and nirvana was, and too an extent I 100 percent agree with that. Pearl Jam is one of if not my favorite band of all time, but to say that they are as influential as the pumpkins or nirvana is imo a bit wrong. Siamese Dream and Mellon Collie are incredible records, sonically revolutionary. Nevermind and In Utero brought raw rock n roll to the mainstream. Do I love Pearl Jam's catalog? Yes I do, but once Ed took over on most of the songwriting, it got pretty damn basic. Stone's stuff is pretty complex, but other rock bands had done it before. NO ONE had a song like teen spirit that was in the charts. Corgan wrote songs like zero than turned around and wrote tonight tonight. This will piss off you PJ heads but besides the fact corgan was a bit conceited I gotta give him credit theres a bit of truth to his statements. Hell even eddie and stone said that everything they did from 91 on they always thought about kurt and what his attitude would be towards it. Idk thats just my 2 cents
after listening to the show I gotta say hes spot on with the foos, and in regards to his comments on PJ, I really didnt hear that much smack. Hes basically saying that Pearl Jam wasn't nearly as influential as the pumpkins and nirvana was, and too an extent I 100 percent agree with that. Pearl Jam is one of if not my favorite band of all time, but to say that they are as influential as the pumpkins or nirvana is imo a bit wrong. Siamese Dream and Mellon Collie are incredible records, sonically revolutionary. Nevermind and In Utero brought raw rock n roll to the mainstream. Do I love Pearl Jam's catalog? Yes I do, but once Ed took over on most of the songwriting, it got pretty damn basic. Stone's stuff is pretty complex, but other rock bands had done it before. NO ONE had a song like teen spirit that was in the charts. Corgan wrote songs like zero than turned around and wrote tonight tonight. This will piss off you PJ heads but besides the fact corgan was a bit conceited I gotta give him credit theres a bit of truth to his statements. Hell even eddie and stone said that everything they did from 91 on they always thought about kurt and what his attitude would be towards it. Idk thats just my 2 cents
Its funny how people view the same thing. I think melon collie is a brilliant CD. But that's it's. And as far as influence? I hear no bands citing the smashing pumpkins as an influence. Just because corgan wrote zero and tonight tonight? Na, I don't see how influential that is. Like PJ hasn't done that on every one of their first 6 cds. (Not metal, but definitely hard rock songs).
Now we can discuss playing live. I 100% agree with an above poster that corgans voice sounds like a screeching cat live. That was my exact description of it in 1995. Btw, if not for studio enhancements to corgans voice, the smashing pumpkins would have sold 100 cds combined. And yet PJ is known and has been known to be one of the best live acts over the past 20 years+. So really, there is no comparison and Billy, or Schmuck LaDouche as I have started to call him, should probably get off his high horse.
after listening to the show I gotta say hes spot on with the foos, and in regards to his comments on PJ, I really didnt hear that much smack. Hes basically saying that Pearl Jam wasn't nearly as influential as the pumpkins and nirvana was, and too an extent I 100 percent agree with that. Pearl Jam is one of if not my favorite band of all time, but to say that they are as influential as the pumpkins or nirvana is imo a bit wrong. Siamese Dream and Mellon Collie are incredible records, sonically revolutionary. Nevermind and In Utero brought raw rock n roll to the mainstream. Do I love Pearl Jam's catalog? Yes I do, but once Ed took over on most of the songwriting, it got pretty damn basic. Stone's stuff is pretty complex, but other rock bands had done it before. NO ONE had a song like teen spirit that was in the charts. Corgan wrote songs like zero than turned around and wrote tonight tonight. This will piss off you PJ heads but besides the fact corgan was a bit conceited I gotta give him credit theres a bit of truth to his statements. Hell even eddie and stone said that everything they did from 91 on they always thought about kurt and what his attitude would be towards it. Idk thats just my 2 cents
Eddie wrote most of the lyrics of the earlier albums. Unless you're talking about the music. And I think what people are upset about is him saying "they don't have the songs", and "it's a mystery how they still fill arenas." And rock n roll was already mainstream. Just a different kind. But Ten and Vs brought raw rock as well.
after listening to the show I gotta say hes spot on with the foos, and in regards to his comments on PJ, I really didnt hear that much smack. Hes basically saying that Pearl Jam wasn't nearly as influential as the pumpkins and nirvana was, and too an extent I 100 percent agree with that. Pearl Jam is one of if not my favorite band of all time, but to say that they are as influential as the pumpkins or nirvana is imo a bit wrong. Siamese Dream and Mellon Collie are incredible records, sonically revolutionary. Nevermind and In Utero brought raw rock n roll to the mainstream. Do I love Pearl Jam's catalog? Yes I do, but once Ed took over on most of the songwriting, it got pretty damn basic. Stone's stuff is pretty complex, but other rock bands had done it before. NO ONE had a song like teen spirit that was in the charts. Corgan wrote songs like zero than turned around and wrote tonight tonight. This will piss off you PJ heads but besides the fact corgan was a bit conceited I gotta give him credit theres a bit of truth to his statements. Hell even eddie and stone said that everything they did from 91 on they always thought about kurt and what his attitude would be towards it. Idk thats just my 2 cents
Its funny how people view the same thing. I think melon collie is a brilliant CD. But that's it's. And as far as influence? I hear no bands citing the smashing pumpkins as an influence. Just because corgan wrote zero and tonight tonight? Na, I don't see how influential that it. Like PJ hasn't done that on every one of their first 6 cds. (Not metal, but definitely hard rock songs).
Now we can discuss playing live. I 100% agree with an above poster that corgans voice sounds like a screeching cat live. That was my exact description of it in 1995. Btw, if not for studio enhancements to corgans voice, the smashing pumpkins would have sold 100 cds combined. And get PJ is known and has been known to be one of the best live acts over the past 20 years+. So really, there is no comparison and Billy, or Schmuck LaDouche as I have started to call him, should probably get off his high horse.
You know youre right, i retract my statement of influential and change it with impactful. Those records and their sound are really on an island of their own, but they had a huge impact on rock. And to your statement I have to agree, PJ is one of the best live acts of all time IMO right up there with springsteen. I have seen the pumpkins twice before however and they were very good performers, and around their peak years the videos ive seen show they could put on a show as well.
I really don't care what an angry rat in a cage has to say about PJ. Or Foos, or Nirvana, or anything else for that matter.
The joy of life comes from our encounters with new experiences, and hence there is no greater joy than to have an endlessly changing horizon, for each day to have a new and different sun.
Billy is certainly entitled to his opinion, and if he were to say anything else in any other way, you'd think he wasn't being sincere. "That's show biz you know..."
1979 is the best song from the 90s' and that fucker can say whatever he wants.
Just my opinion, I'd love to see PJ grow a little ("evolve" as Billy said about the Foo's), maybe expand their scope a little, maybe use a different producer or two on their next LPs.
Howie is the best interviewer around, and has been for a while.
Billy is certainly entitled to his opinion, and if he were to say anything else in any other way, you'd think he wasn't being sincere. "That's show biz you know..."
1979 is the best song from the 90s' and that fucker can say whatever he wants.
Just my opinion, I'd love to see PJ grow a little ("evolve" as Billy said about the Foo's), maybe expand their scope a little, maybe use a different producer or two on their next LPs.
Howie is the best interviewer around, and has been for a while.
I live the first few SP albums. But aside from a few songs, SP just does not resonate on a spiritual/personal level like PJ does. PJ may make simpler music for the most part, but musically and lyrically it oozes with something, that is hard to put a finger on, that touches people in a much deeper way than SP does. No, I don't think PJ could write Soma, Starla, Bury Me or XYU...but Billy could never write something like NAIS or In My Tree or Given To Fly or Sad or Corduroy. Billy wanted to be seen as that sort of spiritual guide or voice of a generation (both ridiculous terms i know but i'm just making a point) like Kurt or Eddie were always being called, but he's just not that guy. Musically he did some amazing things, and I like his lyrics on the first few albums, but Cherub Rock didn't ignite anything the way Teen Spirit or Alive did.
I still play SP's early albums a fair amount. But they lost me years ago, and I never caught up. Billy likes to call out bands like Soundgarden for selling out and reuniting just to make money...well at least SG has all of the original members and is making an honest go of it. SP is Billy and some young kids now. It's a joke and he just can't seem to understand that.
And lastly: no Billy, it's not a competition. Maybe if you understood that you would have some sense of humbleness and respect for other musicians.
Bright eyed kid: "Wow Typo Man, you're the best!"
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
Proof this board is drawn to negativity. Move on guys, no need to rush to defend the band.
Nobody cares... The mob wants blood.
I'm curious if other bands fan boards blow up for the times Ed has said something negative about another band. Or if it is mostly just PJ fans that overreact to everything.
...got a mind full of questions and a teacher in my soul...
Proof this board is drawn to negativity. Move on guys, no need to rush to defend the band.
Nobody cares... The mob wants blood.
I'm curious if other bands fan boards blow up for the times Ed has said something negative about another band. Or if it is mostly just PJ fans that overreact to everything.
Oh man, the Good Charlotte board was going nuts in 2003. All 9 people were outraged.
Bright eyed kid: "Wow Typo Man, you're the best!"
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
Proof this board is drawn to negativity. Move on guys, no need to rush to defend the band.
Nobody cares... The mob wants blood.
I'm curious if other bands fan boards blow up for the times Ed has said something negative about another band. Or if it is mostly just PJ fans that overreact to everything.
Oh man, the Good Charlotte board was going nuts in 2003. All 9 people were outraged.
Comments
Hahaha
Yes!!!!
Awesome post
5/17/2006 - United Center (7th row center, caught Eddie's pick), 6/29/2006 - Summerfest with Tom Petty,
8/24/2009 - United Center, 7/19/2013 - Wrigley Field, 10/3/2014 - St Louis, 10/17/2014 - Moline (GA), 10/20/2014 - Milwaukee,
5/14/2015 - Pete Townshend/EV, 8/20/16 & 8/22/16 Wrigley Field Part 2&3, 8/18/18 & 8/20/18 Wrigley Parts 4 & 5, 9/18/2022 - St Louis
He gave the ten club some respect at least.
Here to die.
Scared alive.
Those that can be trusted can change their mind.
Though the comparison is correct if at some point you let go of the cat. The last time I saw SP, they did a half hour, full band bongo jam. I shit you not.
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
Billy played on the same bill as PJ with the Chili Peppers and constantly has mentioned how awesome it was watching PJ in the wings before they went on. I find it so strange that some people on this board have admitted that they only listen to PJ. How can you not appreciate other music? I mean that is like eating the same thing everyday. PJ and the Pumpkins are two totally different bands but both saved my fucking life when i was a confused teenager. I will defend both till the end.
livefootsteps.org/user/?usr=446
1995- New Orleans, LA : New Orleans, LA
1996- Charleston, SC
1998- Atlanta, GA: Birmingham, AL: Greenville, SC: Knoxville, TN
2000- Atlanta, GA: New Orleans, LA: Memphis, TN: Nashville, TN
2003- Raleigh, NC: Charlotte, NC: Atlanta, GA
2004- Asheville, NC (hometown show)
2006- Cincinnati, OH
2008- Columbia, SC
2009- Chicago, IL x 2 / Ed Vedder- Atlanta, GA x 2
2010- Bristow, VA
2011- Alpine Valley, WI (PJ20) x 2 / Ed Vedder- Chicago, IL
2012- Atlanta, GA
2013- Charlotte, NC
2014- Cincinnati, OH
2015- New York, NY
2016- Greenville, SC: Hampton, VA:: Columbia, SC: Raleigh, NC : Lexington, KY: Philly, PA 2: (Wrigley) Chicago, IL x 2 (holy shit): Temple of the Dog- Philly, PA
2017- ED VED- Louisville, KY
2018- Chicago, IL x2, Boston, MA x2
2020- Nashville, TN
2022- Smashville
2023- Austin, TX x2
2024- Baltimore
No band since Led Zeppelin can go from such quiet almost folk songs to outright metal.
It is an amazing record and is a touchstone of my youth.
That is the last word I will say on this topic.
livefootsteps.org/user/?usr=446
1995- New Orleans, LA : New Orleans, LA
1996- Charleston, SC
1998- Atlanta, GA: Birmingham, AL: Greenville, SC: Knoxville, TN
2000- Atlanta, GA: New Orleans, LA: Memphis, TN: Nashville, TN
2003- Raleigh, NC: Charlotte, NC: Atlanta, GA
2004- Asheville, NC (hometown show)
2006- Cincinnati, OH
2008- Columbia, SC
2009- Chicago, IL x 2 / Ed Vedder- Atlanta, GA x 2
2010- Bristow, VA
2011- Alpine Valley, WI (PJ20) x 2 / Ed Vedder- Chicago, IL
2012- Atlanta, GA
2013- Charlotte, NC
2014- Cincinnati, OH
2015- New York, NY
2016- Greenville, SC: Hampton, VA:: Columbia, SC: Raleigh, NC : Lexington, KY: Philly, PA 2: (Wrigley) Chicago, IL x 2 (holy shit): Temple of the Dog- Philly, PA
2017- ED VED- Louisville, KY
2018- Chicago, IL x2, Boston, MA x2
2020- Nashville, TN
2022- Smashville
2023- Austin, TX x2
2024- Baltimore
Now we can discuss playing live. I 100% agree with an above poster that corgans voice sounds like a screeching cat live. That was my exact description of it in 1995. Btw, if not for studio enhancements to corgans voice, the smashing pumpkins would have sold 100 cds combined. And yet PJ is known and has been known to be one of the best live acts over the past 20 years+. So really, there is no comparison and Billy, or Schmuck LaDouche as I have started to call him, should probably get off his high horse.
- Christopher McCandless
1979 is the best song from the 90s' and that fucker can say whatever he wants.
Just my opinion, I'd love to see PJ grow a little ("evolve" as Billy said about the Foo's), maybe expand their scope a little, maybe use a different producer or two on their next LPs.
Howie is the best interviewer around, and has been for a while.
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
I still play SP's early albums a fair amount. But they lost me years ago, and I never caught up. Billy likes to call out bands like Soundgarden for selling out and reuniting just to make money...well at least SG has all of the original members and is making an honest go of it. SP is Billy and some young kids now. It's a joke and he just can't seem to understand that.
And lastly: no Billy, it's not a competition. Maybe if you understood that you would have some sense of humbleness and respect for other musicians.
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"