Amazing, if this is true, wow. I'm wondering what the pro-Israeli side are gonna comment on this.
Hasbara playbook...do not engage, ignore so as to not lend credence or legitimacy
isn't that the truth.
i got into an argument on my facebook during the assault on gaza with a jewish israeli supporter that i have known since i was 8 years old. i was appalled by his outright, publicly stated hatred of arabs. i asked him a bunch of pointed questions about the conflict, settlements, blockade, and occupation, that he refused to answer. i think he was surprised that i am as read up and engaged on this topic as i am. i said "mark, why does hasbara exist??" 4 or 5 times before he exploded on my trying to justify the existence of hasbara. he gave the regular canned justification and i called him on it. needless to say we aren't friends anymore.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
Amazing, if this is true, wow. I'm wondering what the pro-Israeli side are gonna comment on this.
Hasbara playbook...do not engage, ignore so as to not lend credence or legitimacy
isn't that the truth.
i got into an argument on my facebook during the assault on gaza with a jewish israeli supporter that i have known since i was 8 years old. i was appalled by his outright, publicly stated hatred of arabs. i asked him a bunch of pointed questions about the conflict, settlements, blockade, and occupation, that he refused to answer. i think he was surprised that i am as read up and engaged on this topic as i am. i said "mark, why does hasbara exist??" 4 or 5 times before he exploded on my trying to justify the existence of hasbara. he gave the regular canned justification and i called him on it. needless to say we aren't friends anymore.
shame to lose friends over it. sometimes its not worth it. a friend once said to me "its supposed to be this way"
Have you considered that maybe your hangup with the supposedly sinister "hasbara" is actually just a little bit unjustified?
I liken hasbara to antisemitism here in the sense that both are pointed out much more often than they actually exist. At least on this board. Maybe there are examples of both to be found but I believe them to be few and far between.
Up until Milton Keynes I doubted there was any hasbara presence here at all. It seemed far fetched. Still does, if I'm being honest. But I do have to admit that one particular exchange I had during that time has me questioning that conclusion. One member I encountered in the Porch threads just felt wrong. Too many talking points, a strangely romanticized view of history, it just felt off. And I never saw that person online here ever again after the controversy died down.
Maybe I'm wrong and it was just another ten clubber who has since gotten very busy. I don't know...but I do wonder.
Have you considered that maybe your hangup with the supposedly sinister "hasbara" is actually just a little bit unjustified?
I liken hasbara to antisemitism here in the sense that both are pointed out much more often than they actually exist. At least on this board. Maybe there are examples of both to be found but I believe them to be few and far between.
Up until Milton Keynes I doubted there was any hasbara presence here at all. It seemed far fetched. Still does, if I'm being honest. But I do have to admit that one particular exchange I had during that time has me questioning that conclusion. One member I encountered in the Porch threads just felt wrong. Too many talking points, a strangely romanticized view of history, it just felt off. And I never saw that person online here ever again after the controversy died down.
Maybe I'm wrong and it was just another ten clubber who has since gotten very busy. I don't know...but I do wonder.
no, there were some on here in 2010 about the time the flotilla was raided. i got into it with one of them and got a 2 week ban out of it. never saw that person again once i got back here.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
Have you considered that maybe your hangup with the supposedly sinister "hasbara" is actually just a little bit unjustified?
I liken hasbara to antisemitism here in the sense that both are pointed out much more often than they actually exist. At least on this board. Maybe there are examples of both to be found but I believe them to be few and far between.
Up until Milton Keynes I doubted there was any hasbara presence here at all. It seemed far fetched. Still does, if I'm being honest. But I do have to admit that one particular exchange I had during that time has me questioning that conclusion. One member I encountered in the Porch threads just felt wrong. Too many talking points, a strangely romanticized view of history, it just felt off. And I never saw that person online here ever again after the controversy died down.
Maybe I'm wrong and it was just another ten clubber who has since gotten very busy. I don't know...but I do wonder.
i think i know exactly what you speak of! Silvan is the name I am thinking of but maybe you are thinking of someone else. And like you said, maybe it wasnt fishy...but it smelled fishy to me!
On a similar note, it troubles me SLIGHTLY when a person takes the time to check in here relatively often, but only comments on a particular topic. It is everyone's prerogative to post as they choose, and I really mean that!, but like I said it is slightly irksome when only 1 topic is engaged. We have threads for everything, including the band, sports, TV, everyday life, and all forms of current events and debateable topics. When only 1 topic is engaged it is weird, when that topic is Israel or gun control it is just a tad weirder. I am not accusing anyone of Hasbara, I dont know much about it really, just saying it's weird.
On a similar note, it troubles me SLIGHTLY when a person takes the time to check in here relatively often, but only comments on a particular topic. It is everyone's prerogative to post as they choose, and I really mean that!, but like I said it is slightly irksome when only 1 topic is engaged. We have threads for everything, including the band, sports, TV, everyday life, and all forms of current events and debateable topics. When only 1 topic is engaged it is weird, when that topic is Israel or gun control it is just a tad weirder. I am not accusing anyone of Hasbara, I dont know much about it really, just saying it's weird.
To that point I've found over the last year I spend most my time on AMT and rarely check in w the porch.I mean I know threads like "pics where eddies hot" and "what's better,my fathers son or setting forth" just are not engaging enough after the brain.Id rather be here having heated discussions about Beards,immigration,murder and of course Gambs hot button issue Hipsters.
I find it weird that my son who hasn't reached 3 yet pronounces weird as wee-ir-da phonetically... He does pronounce hasbara has-ba-rah thou...still can't pronounce Palestinianterrorist yet thou. They say they don't teach that until the first grade.
On a similar note, it troubles me SLIGHTLY when a person takes the time to check in here relatively often, but only comments on a particular topic. It is everyone's prerogative to post as they choose, and I really mean that!, but like I said it is slightly irksome when only 1 topic is engaged. We have threads for everything, including the band, sports, TV, everyday life, and all forms of current events and debateable topics. When only 1 topic is engaged it is weird, when that topic is Israel or gun control it is just a tad weirder. I am not accusing anyone of Hasbara, I dont know much about it really, just saying it's weird.
To that point I've found over the last year I spend most my time on AMT and rarely check in w the porch.I mean I know threads like "pics where eddies hot" and "what's better,my fathers son or setting forth" just are not engaging enough after the brain.Id rather be here having heated discussions about Beards,immigration,murder and of course Gambs hot button issue Hipsters.
its not that big of a hot button for me, i was just having a case of manstration that day lol! And i dont take kindly to perceived beardism, as i have had to deal with a lot of beardists in my day!
What exactly do people believe "Hasbarah" is? I know some people have convinced themselves that there is a secret army of internet crusaders who stalk the internet trying to spread Israeli government talking points. I want to know what the less maniacally obsessed among you think.
Because my understanding of the term, which reflects how it is actually used in Israel, is entirely benign. It basically means PR for Israel. Like when you see commercials on tv telling you how great Korea is and that you should come visit, that would be "hasbarah" for Korea. Of course, given the political situation, it also includes trying to explain to the rest of the world the Israeli perspective on the conflict, but it's nothing more sinister than that. It's certainly not some sort of conspiracy.
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane
Frank luntz, the king of catch phrase fear mongering propaganda was hired to write a handbook of Israeli talking points. It's used in the Internet 'war rooms' http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/israel-student-union-sets-war-room-sell-gaza-massacre-facebook , by (what I'm sure israel would prefer to be a secret) 'army of internet crusaders who stalk the internet trying to spread Israeli government talking points' If the book wasn't leaked, we might not know much about this propaganda strategy....kinda sounds like textbook conspiracy to me. It's sad to see you come here and play dumb, when I know for a fact you've seen these articles posted, and try to discredit it all as conspiracy (yet again). No other nation does this. They are justifying war crimes, it's not at all akin to a fucking tourism campaign.
For my part, as someone who has done no research on it and hasn't seen the articles linked above yet, my notion of hasbara is foggy but possibly getting clearer. I did read an article that showed credible evidence that the web has been "infiltrated" for some time by thousands of entities, from govt institutions like FBI and CIA, to private corporations, which pay people to spread talking points and try to skew the conversation on any number of topics. I assumed that Israel was among them and considered it par for course. If a group is committing war crimes like the US and Israel routinely do, they certainly have reason to spread a PR campaign. In regards to it being "sinister"...that's an interesting thought... If the people are paid, and it is intended as a secret, then yes i consider that on the sinister side. If the scale is huge, and there are thousands upon thousands of Israeli supporters being paid to spread talking points, this makes it more sinister. Lastly, what are they being paid to say? If it is a tourism campaign as you suggest then there is nothing sinister about it (outside of the normal morbidity of asking someone to support a country which routinely murders civillians...Israel certainly doesnt stand alone there) but if the topic is specifically designated as engaging in convos about the conflict, it is sinister. If it is specifically to cast an unfavorable light on Palestine and glorify Israel it is sinister as hell. I am starting to be sure it is pretty shady, but again, not singling Israel out...the US is shady to the max and I am sure all the controversial nations are doing this now.
On a similar note, it troubles me SLIGHTLY when a person takes the time to check in here relatively often, but only comments on a particular topic. It is everyone's prerogative to post as they choose, and I really mean that!, but like I said it is slightly irksome when only 1 topic is engaged. We have threads for everything, including the band, sports, TV, everyday life, and all forms of current events and debateable topics. When only 1 topic is engaged it is weird, when that topic is Israel or gun control it is just a tad weirder. I am not accusing anyone of Hasbara, I dont know much about it really, just saying it's weird.
To that point I've found over the last year I spend most my time on AMT and rarely check in w the porch.I mean I know threads like "pics where eddies hot" and "what's better,my fathers son or setting forth" just are not engaging enough after the brain.Id rather be here having heated discussions about Beards,immigration,murder and of course Gambs hot button issue Hipsters.
its not that big of a hot button for me, i was just having a case of manstration that day lol! And i dont take kindly to perceived beardism, as i have had to deal with a lot of beardists in my day!
"Manstration","Beardism"and "Beardist" .You sir are bringing your A game this weekend Gambsy.I like that.I will be out intermingling at establishments this evening that provide great food,live rock and of course the hipster magnet,a full selection of craft beers on draft. In your bearded honor I will engage those of the rolled up pants and buttoned up short sleeve shirts and douchee fascial hair and I will use the terms you gave me here in my conversations.Trust me(we are a loud rambunctious group) more then one hipster/hamster will go home tonight and rethink his sorry Beardist ways.Cheers Gambs
On a similar note, it troubles me SLIGHTLY when a person takes the time to check in here relatively often, but only comments on a particular topic. It is everyone's prerogative to post as they choose, and I really mean that!, but like I said it is slightly irksome when only 1 topic is engaged. We have threads for everything, including the band, sports, TV, everyday life, and all forms of current events and debateable topics. When only 1 topic is engaged it is weird, when that topic is Israel or gun control it is just a tad weirder. I am not accusing anyone of Hasbara, I dont know much about it really, just saying it's weird.
To that point I've found over the last year I spend most my time on AMT and rarely check in w the porch.I mean I know threads like "pics where eddies hot" and "what's better,my fathers son or setting forth" just are not engaging enough after the brain.Id rather be here having heated discussions about Beards,immigration,murder and of course Gambs hot button issue Hipsters.
its not that big of a hot button for me, i was just having a case of manstration that day lol! And i dont take kindly to perceived beardism, as i have had to deal with a lot of beardists in my day!
"Manstration","Beardism"and "Beardist" .You sir are bringing your A game this weekend Gambsy.I like that.I will be out intermingling at establishments this evening that provide great food,live rock and of course the hipster magnet,a full selection of craft beers on draft. In your bearded honor I will engage those of the rolled up pants and buttoned up short sleeve shirts and douchee fascial hair and I will use the terms you gave me here in my conversations.Trust me(we are a loud rambunctious group) more then one hipster/hamster will go home tonight and rethink his sorry Beardist ways.Cheers Gambs
I have a beard now, but I AINT no hipster! Fuck hipsters!
On a similar note, it troubles me SLIGHTLY when a person takes the time to check in here relatively often, but only comments on a particular topic. It is everyone's prerogative to post as they choose, and I really mean that!, but like I said it is slightly irksome when only 1 topic is engaged. We have threads for everything, including the band, sports, TV, everyday life, and all forms of current events and debateable topics. When only 1 topic is engaged it is weird, when that topic is Israel or gun control it is just a tad weirder. I am not accusing anyone of Hasbara, I dont know much about it really, just saying it's weird.
To that point I've found over the last year I spend most my time on AMT and rarely check in w the porch.I mean I know threads like "pics where eddies hot" and "what's better,my fathers son or setting forth" just are not engaging enough after the brain.Id rather be here having heated discussions about Beards,immigration,murder and of course Gambs hot button issue Hipsters.
its not that big of a hot button for me, i was just having a case of manstration that day lol! And i dont take kindly to perceived beardism, as i have had to deal with a lot of beardists in my day!
"Manstration","Beardism"and "Beardist" .You sir are bringing your A game this weekend Gambsy.I like that.I will be out intermingling at establishments this evening that provide great food,live rock and of course the hipster magnet,a full selection of craft beers on draft. In your bearded honor I will engage those of the rolled up pants and buttoned up short sleeve shirts and douchee fascial hair and I will use the terms you gave me here in my conversations.Trust me(we are a loud rambunctious group) more then one hipster/hamster will go home tonight and rethink his sorry Beardist ways.Cheers Gambs
I have a beard now, but I AINT no hipster! Fuck hipsters!
Exactly Nart,that's Gambs thought as well.Now your on point also.
I think there is joke here about a Muslim and a beard but it's still early.let me work on it.lol
What exactly do people believe "Hasbarah" is? I know some people have convinced themselves that there is a secret army of internet crusaders who stalk the internet trying to spread Israeli government talking points. I want to know what the less maniacally obsessed among you think.
Because my understanding of the term, which reflects how it is actually used in Israel, is entirely benign. It basically means PR for Israel. Like when you see commercials on tv telling you how great Korea is and that you should come visit, that would be "hasbarah" for Korea. Of course, given the political situation, it also includes trying to explain to the rest of the world the Israeli perspective on the conflict, but it's nothing more sinister than that. It's certainly not some sort of conspiracy.
Christ! My point is simply that "Hasbarah," as it's actually used in Hebrew (remember, it's a Hebrew word) is a general term that includes all sorts of things most of which would be considered entirely benign by all but the most rabidly crazy haters of Israel.
As it's used here, it's become a heavy-handed tool for suppressing contrary opinions. Because clearly, anyone who disagrees with the received wisdom that Israel is the demon spawn of Satan and Hitler must obviously be a paid agent of the Israeli government sent to this Pearl Jam fan site to convince a handful of people who can't be convinced and who have no actual power or influence that Israel is really not so bad.
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane
On a similar note, it troubles me SLIGHTLY when a person takes the time to check in here relatively often, but only comments on a particular topic. It is everyone's prerogative to post as they choose, and I really mean that!, but like I said it is slightly irksome when only 1 topic is engaged. We have threads for everything, including the band, sports, TV, everyday life, and all forms of current events and debateable topics. When only 1 topic is engaged it is weird, when that topic is Israel or gun control it is just a tad weirder. I am not accusing anyone of Hasbara, I dont know much about it really, just saying it's weird.
To that point I've found over the last year I spend most my time on AMT and rarely check in w the porch.I mean I know threads like "pics where eddies hot" and "what's better,my fathers son or setting forth" just are not engaging enough after the brain.Id rather be here having heated discussions about Beards,immigration,murder and of course Gambs hot button issue Hipsters.
its not that big of a hot button for me, i was just having a case of manstration that day lol! And i dont take kindly to perceived beardism, as i have had to deal with a lot of beardists in my day!
"Manstration","Beardism"and "Beardist" .You sir are bringing your A game this weekend Gambsy.I like that.I will be out intermingling at establishments this evening that provide great food,live rock and of course the hipster magnet,a full selection of craft beers on draft. In your bearded honor I will engage those of the rolled up pants and buttoned up short sleeve shirts and douchee fascial hair and I will use the terms you gave me here in my conversations.Trust me(we are a loud rambunctious group) more then one hipster/hamster will go home tonight and rethink his sorry Beardist ways.Cheers Gambs
I have a beard now, but I AINT no hipster! Fuck hipsters!
wait, i have a beard now leftover from halloween. we have threads on this?? where at?? i am pretty anti beard, but the ladies seem to like it. i have been meeting a lot of them in the month and a half since i have had it. i might keep it for awhile. through the holidays at least. that said, i am still violently anti hipster....
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
For my part, as someone who has done no research on it and hasn't seen the articles linked above yet, my notion of hasbara is foggy but possibly getting clearer. I did read an article that showed credible evidence that the web has been "infiltrated" for some time by thousands of entities, from govt institutions like FBI and CIA, to private corporations, which pay people to spread talking points and try to skew the conversation on any number of topics. I assumed that Israel was among them and considered it par for course. If a group is committing war crimes like the US and Israel routinely do, they certainly have reason to spread a PR campaign. In regards to it being "sinister"...that's an interesting thought... If the people are paid, and it is intended as a secret, then yes i consider that on the sinister side. If the scale is huge, and there are thousands upon thousands of Israeli supporters being paid to spread talking points, this makes it more sinister. Lastly, what are they being paid to say? If it is a tourism campaign as you suggest then there is nothing sinister about it (outside of the normal morbidity of asking someone to support a country which routinely murders civillians...Israel certainly doesnt stand alone there) but if the topic is specifically designated as engaging in convos about the conflict, it is sinister. If it is specifically to cast an unfavorable light on Palestine and glorify Israel it is sinister as hell. I am starting to be sure it is pretty shady, but again, not singling Israel out...the US is shady to the max and I am sure all the controversial nations are doing this now.
they spread propaganda and justify what israel is doing. similar to the texas textbooks that said that african americans actually enjoyed being slaves and enjoyed being in america before the civil war.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
On a similar note, it troubles me SLIGHTLY when a person takes the time to check in here relatively often, but only comments on a particular topic. It is everyone's prerogative to post as they choose, and I really mean that!, but like I said it is slightly irksome when only 1 topic is engaged. We have threads for everything, including the band, sports, TV, everyday life, and all forms of current events and debateable topics. When only 1 topic is engaged it is weird, when that topic is Israel or gun control it is just a tad weirder. I am not accusing anyone of Hasbara, I dont know much about it really, just saying it's weird.
To that point I've found over the last year I spend most my time on AMT and rarely check in w the porch.I mean I know threads like "pics where eddies hot" and "what's better,my fathers son or setting forth" just are not engaging enough after the brain.Id rather be here having heated discussions about Beards,immigration,murder and of course Gambs hot button issue Hipsters.
its not that big of a hot button for me, i was just having a case of manstration that day lol! And i dont take kindly to perceived beardism, as i have had to deal with a lot of beardists in my day!
"Manstration","Beardism"and "Beardist" .You sir are bringing your A game this weekend Gambsy.I like that.I will be out intermingling at establishments this evening that provide great food,live rock and of course the hipster magnet,a full selection of craft beers on draft. In your bearded honor I will engage those of the rolled up pants and buttoned up short sleeve shirts and douchee fascial hair and I will use the terms you gave me here in my conversations.Trust me(we are a loud rambunctious group) more then one hipster/hamster will go home tonight and rethink his sorry Beardist ways.Cheers Gambs
I have a beard now, but I AINT no hipster! Fuck hipsters!
wait, i have a beard now leftover from halloween. we have threads on this?? where at?? i am pretty anti beard, but the ladies seem to like it. i have been meeting a lot of them in the month and a half since i have had it. i might keep it for awhile. through the holidays at least. that said, i am still violently anti hipster....
Maybe Gambs can remember what thread it was.Maybe the lounge about 2months ago.We all got caught up in a big to do about hipsters and beards and I jokingly asked Gambs if it was hipster thing. And since he was pre menstral on that day he flipped out until we could bring him back to earth.Hence our above exchange.If memory serves there was some really fucking funny pics and comments.
Christ! My point is simply that "Hasbarah," as it's actually used in Hebrew (remember, it's a Hebrew word) is a general term that includes all sorts of things most of which would be considered entirely benign by all but the most rabidly crazy haters of Israel.
As it's used here, it's become a heavy-handed tool for suppressing contrary opinions. Because clearly, anyone who disagrees with the received wisdom that Israel is the demon spawn of Satan and Hitler must obviously be a paid agent of the Israeli government sent to this Pearl Jam fan site to convince a handful of people who can't be convinced and who have no actual power or influence that Israel is really not so bad.
I never thought it was sinister,I always thought you guys were talking about the company that made those sweet GI Joe dolls from when I was a kid .You know he had that fuzzy little buzz cut of all different color hair.Some had beards.You could get all the different outfits and weapons.....
Comments
i got into an argument on my facebook during the assault on gaza with a jewish israeli supporter that i have known since i was 8 years old. i was appalled by his outright, publicly stated hatred of arabs. i asked him a bunch of pointed questions about the conflict, settlements, blockade, and occupation, that he refused to answer. i think he was surprised that i am as read up and engaged on this topic as i am. i said "mark, why does hasbara exist??" 4 or 5 times before he exploded on my trying to justify the existence of hasbara. he gave the regular canned justification and i called him on it. needless to say we aren't friends anymore.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
http://occupiedpalestine.wordpress.com/2014/07/17/gazaunderattack-july-17-2014/
Up until Milton Keynes I doubted there was any hasbara presence here at all. It seemed far fetched. Still does, if I'm being honest. But I do have to admit that one particular exchange I had during that time has me questioning that conclusion. One member I encountered in the Porch threads just felt wrong. Too many talking points, a strangely romanticized view of history, it just felt off. And I never saw that person online here ever again after the controversy died down.
Maybe I'm wrong and it was just another ten clubber who has since gotten very busy. I don't know...but I do wonder.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
He does pronounce hasbara has-ba-rah thou...still can't pronounce Palestinianterrorist yet thou. They say they don't teach that until the first grade.
And i dont take kindly to perceived beardism, as i have had to deal with a lot of beardists in my day!
Because my understanding of the term, which reflects how it is actually used in Israel, is entirely benign. It basically means PR for Israel. Like when you see commercials on tv telling you how great Korea is and that you should come visit, that would be "hasbarah" for Korea. Of course, given the political situation, it also includes trying to explain to the rest of the world the Israeli perspective on the conflict, but it's nothing more sinister than that. It's certainly not some sort of conspiracy.
Israeli students to get $2,000 to spread state propaganda on Facebook
http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/israeli-students-get-2000-spread-state-propaganda-facebook
Frank luntz, the king of catch phrase fear mongering propaganda was hired to write a handbook of Israeli talking points. It's used in the Internet 'war rooms' http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/israel-student-union-sets-war-room-sell-gaza-massacre-facebook , by (what I'm sure israel would prefer to be a secret) 'army of internet crusaders who stalk the internet trying to spread Israeli government talking points'
If the book wasn't leaked, we might not know much about this propaganda strategy....kinda sounds like textbook conspiracy to me. It's sad to see you come here and play dumb, when I know for a fact you've seen these articles posted, and try to discredit it all as conspiracy (yet again).
No other nation does this. They are justifying war crimes, it's not at all akin to a fucking tourism campaign.
In your bearded honor I will engage those of the rolled up pants and buttoned up short sleeve shirts and douchee fascial hair and I will use the terms you gave me here in my conversations.Trust me(we are a loud rambunctious group) more then one hipster/hamster will go home tonight and rethink his sorry Beardist ways.Cheers Gambs
I think there is joke here about a Muslim and a beard but it's still early.let me work on it.lol
North or South Korea?
As it's used here, it's become a heavy-handed tool for suppressing contrary opinions. Because clearly, anyone who disagrees with the received wisdom that Israel is the demon spawn of Satan and Hitler must obviously be a paid agent of the Israeli government sent to this Pearl Jam fan site to convince a handful of people who can't be convinced and who have no actual power or influence that Israel is really not so bad.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."