Just wanted to say... if anyone hasn't seen The Gatekeepers, I watched it last night and was pretty shocked to see people speaking candidly about the atrocities they had authorized in their careers. The film is mostly interview footage with former Shin Bet (the Israeli Security Agency) heads. I'm not convinced that they painted intifadas in the most realistic light within the film (i.e. Palestinian resistance fighters are portrayed as chickens with their heads cut off, without a semblance of organization, and without a clear purpose), but to hear such admissions of guilt is really quite disturbing and worth seeing.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Just wanted to say... if anyone hasn't seen The Gatekeepers, I watched it last night and was pretty shocked to see people speaking candidly about the atrocities they had authorized in their careers. The film is mostly interview footage with former Shin Bet (the Israeli Security Agency) heads. I'm not convinced that they painted intifadas in the most realistic light within the film (i.e. Palestinian resistance fighters are portrayed as chickens with their heads cut off, without a semblance of organization, and without a clear purpose), but to hear such admissions of guilt is really quite disturbing and worth seeing.
Haven't seen this yet Ben. Thanks for posting, def gonna check it out.
JERUSALEM, Nov 12 (Reuters) - Israel said on Wednesday it would not cooperate with a United Nations Human Rights Council investigation into this year's Gaza war because its findings were "pre-determined."
The U.N. panel, due to make its first report by March, is meant to look into the conduct of both Israel and Hamas, the Islamist movement that controls Gaza, during the 50-day conflict.
But Israel's government has already dismissed the investigation as "kangaroo court," accusing its chairman, Canadian academic William Schabas, of anti-Israeli bias.
"In view of the fact that the Schabas committee is not a fact-finding panel but an investigation whose results are pre-determined ... Israel will not cooperate with the committee," |Israel's Foreign Ministry said in a statement on Wednesday.
It added that the decision was also taken in view of what it called the Geneva-based council's "obsessive hostility to Israel."
Israel launched its Gaza offensive on July 8 with the declared aim of halting cross-border rocket salvoes by Islamist Hamas, the dominant militant group in the enclave.
More than 2,100 Palestinians, most of them civilians, were killed in seven weeks of fighting, according to the Gaza health ministry. Sixty-seven Israeli soldiers and six civilians in Israel were killed.
Schabas told Reuters this month he was determined to put aside any views about "things that have gone on in the past."
On Monday, U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon named retired Dutch general Patrick Cammaert to head an inquiry into Israeli attacks on U.N. facilities in the Gaza Strip and the use of U.N. sites to store weapons.
Israel's military opened five criminal investigations in September into its own operations in Gaza, including attacks that killed four Palestinian children on a beach and 17 people at a U.N. school.
................................
why not??
if you are so innocent, wouldn't you welcome your day in court to make your defense?? why would you run away from it???
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
JERUSALEM, Nov 12 (Reuters) - Israel said on Wednesday it would not cooperate with a United Nations Human Rights Council investigation into this year's Gaza war because its findings were "pre-determined."
The U.N. panel, due to make its first report by March, is meant to look into the conduct of both Israel and Hamas, the Islamist movement that controls Gaza, during the 50-day conflict.
But Israel's government has already dismissed the investigation as "kangaroo court," accusing its chairman, Canadian academic William Schabas, of anti-Israeli bias.
"In view of the fact that the Schabas committee is not a fact-finding panel but an investigation whose results are pre-determined ... Israel will not cooperate with the committee," |Israel's Foreign Ministry said in a statement on Wednesday.
It added that the decision was also taken in view of what it called the Geneva-based council's "obsessive hostility to Israel."
Israel launched its Gaza offensive on July 8 with the declared aim of halting cross-border rocket salvoes by Islamist Hamas, the dominant militant group in the enclave.
More than 2,100 Palestinians, most of them civilians, were killed in seven weeks of fighting, according to the Gaza health ministry. Sixty-seven Israeli soldiers and six civilians in Israel were killed.
Schabas told Reuters this month he was determined to put aside any views about "things that have gone on in the past."
On Monday, U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon named retired Dutch general Patrick Cammaert to head an inquiry into Israeli attacks on U.N. facilities in the Gaza Strip and the use of U.N. sites to store weapons.
Israel's military opened five criminal investigations in September into its own operations in Gaza, including attacks that killed four Palestinian children on a beach and 17 people at a U.N. school.
................................
why not??
if you are so innocent, wouldn't you welcome your day in court to make your defense?? why would you run away from it???
I agree. A "grudge" that members of the Security Council supposedly hold against Israel shouldn't hold up in court against logic.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
it's not a grudge when the vast majority of the world sees what they are doing, recognizes what they have done, and condemns their actions.
you think they are going to critically evaluate their own action in their 5 probes??
I'm not sure if this is directed at me, but I was implying that Israel's opposition to the UN's probe due to the presence of Schabas is ludicrous (and his history of condemning Israel is the grudge that I was referring to). If you do something the world thinks is wrong, and you are certain it isn't, you should be able to sway opinions by presenting logic.
As for your question - In no way, shape, or form do I suspect that Israel will critically evaluate their own actions: the irony of condemning the members the UN chooses to investigate this issue while suggesting "no, no, you guys don't worry about it - we'll just investigate ourselves" is absolutely nuts. Conflict of interest much?
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
it is going to look at both the conduct of israel, and the conduct of hamas.
surely war crimes were committed by hamas too.
why is hamas not taking the same stand as israel?
why are the palestinian leadership not balking as well?
it is because israelis know what they did? leadership knows what happened. the idf knows what happened, and they know they are as guilty as the sky is blue.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
On 4 August, an Israeli drone killed two children — five-year-old Amal Amjad Uwaida and thirteen-year-old Muhammad Ahmed Uwaida — who were on the roof of their home in the Rafah area. On 24 August, Issam Mustafa Joudeh lost his wife and four of his children — aged between six and fourteen — when an Israeli drone hit their house in the Jabaliya neighborhood.
More Fighting and more Killing...seriously for what...I mean if either side dropped there weapons and said enough that all of a sudden there will be Peace in the region as much as I would like to see that I doubt it...the situation in the region is far what's the word I'm looking for etched or deep that it's just an ongoing war where it's hard to tell fact from fiction and it's the innocent civilians that have to pay for it.
Keeping things fair on here,it's important to point out the violence perpetrated on both sides.There is in my opinion an excessive amount of vitriol and negativity cast toward the Israelis.A lot of bashing.Dont get me wrong they are not angels and deserve the critique and by no means have no blood on their hands for many horrible actions. There is not much discussion about the violence and unrest caused from the other side.The murder in the synagogue is just an act of evil against innocents and is no better then bombing kids playing soccer. I get some of the posters on this board hate and anger toward Israel but that should be directed to the state and not the gen population.Much like Not holding all Muslims responsible for the acts of a few.Its my opinion some of the views do borderline on inappropriate and I think it walks a slippery slope. All the talk in about 3 threads are all anti Israel.Must be careful where there is smoke many times fire is not far behind.I noticed during the "Israel attacked America"Thread how minor that bit of history was compared to atrocities perpetrated by other allies we have.Does japan,Gemany,Vietnam, also have a much worse record of violence,spying and murder against us then Israel.How about France and it's actions in the past...... Just my 2cents.All war sucks,all violence sucks all countries are guilty of stupid actions.Why are we singling out the Jews???
BB,the reason I even jumped in here was in reaction to your response of the story above.We are so quick to skip over the horrific murder without comment and go right to "can't wait to see Israel's response" .Are we becoming desensitized.I in no way think you are a Rascist,so please don't think that.I also know how passionate you are about this subject and I respect that.I was just taking back with the whole gloss over the act thing.
Comments
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Israel Says Will Not Cooperate With UN Gaza Investigation
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/12/israel-un-gaza-investigation_n_6148114.html
JERUSALEM, Nov 12 (Reuters) - Israel said on Wednesday it would not cooperate with a United Nations Human Rights Council investigation into this year's Gaza war because its findings were "pre-determined."
The U.N. panel, due to make its first report by March, is meant to look into the conduct of both Israel and Hamas, the Islamist movement that controls Gaza, during the 50-day conflict.
But Israel's government has already dismissed the investigation as "kangaroo court," accusing its chairman, Canadian academic William Schabas, of anti-Israeli bias.
"In view of the fact that the Schabas committee is not a fact-finding panel but an investigation whose results are pre-determined ... Israel will not cooperate with the committee," |Israel's Foreign Ministry said in a statement on Wednesday.
It added that the decision was also taken in view of what it called the Geneva-based council's "obsessive hostility to Israel."
Israel launched its Gaza offensive on July 8 with the declared aim of halting cross-border rocket salvoes by Islamist Hamas, the dominant militant group in the enclave.
More than 2,100 Palestinians, most of them civilians, were killed in seven weeks of fighting, according to the Gaza health ministry. Sixty-seven Israeli soldiers and six civilians in Israel were killed.
Schabas told Reuters this month he was determined to put aside any views about "things that have gone on in the past."
On Monday, U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon named retired Dutch general Patrick Cammaert to head an inquiry into Israeli attacks on U.N. facilities in the Gaza Strip and the use of U.N. sites to store weapons.
Israel's military opened five criminal investigations in September into its own operations in Gaza, including attacks that killed four Palestinian children on a beach and 17 people at a U.N. school.
................................
why not??
if you are so innocent, wouldn't you welcome your day in court to make your defense?? why would you run away from it???
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
you think they are going to critically evaluate their own action in their 5 probes??
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
As for your question - In no way, shape, or form do I suspect that Israel will critically evaluate their own actions: the irony of condemning the members the UN chooses to investigate this issue while suggesting "no, no, you guys don't worry about it - we'll just investigate ourselves" is absolutely nuts. Conflict of interest much?
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
surely war crimes were committed by hamas too.
why is hamas not taking the same stand as israel?
why are the palestinian leadership not balking as well?
it is because israelis know what they did? leadership knows what happened. the idf knows what happened, and they know they are as guilty as the sky is blue.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=JZXPC8pLhE8&list=PL0CA8C4B2183ED67D
Prague Krakow Berlin 2018. Berlin 2022
EV, Taormina 1+2 2017.
I wish i was the souvenir you kept your house key on..
On 4 August, an Israeli drone killed two children — five-year-old Amal Amjad Uwaida and thirteen-year-old Muhammad Ahmed Uwaida — who were on the roof of their home in the Rafah area. On 24 August, Issam Mustafa Joudeh lost his wife and four of his children — aged between six and fourteen — when an Israeli drone hit their house in the Jabaliya neighborhood.
http://smpalestine.com/2014/11/16/and-on-the-33rd-word-he-was-a-boy/
http://www.aa.com.tr/en/rss/421673--clashes-in-jerusalem-after-palestinian-driver-found-hanged
http://m.apnews.com/ap/db_268743/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=1DOD9YBt
Revenge?
There is not much discussion about the violence and unrest caused from the other side.The murder in the synagogue is just an act of evil against innocents and is no better then bombing kids playing soccer.
I get some of the posters on this board hate and anger toward Israel but that should be directed to the state and not the gen population.Much like Not holding all Muslims responsible for the acts of a few.Its my opinion some of the views do borderline on inappropriate and I think it walks a slippery slope.
All the talk in about 3 threads are all anti Israel.Must be careful where there is smoke many times fire is not far behind.I noticed during the "Israel attacked America"Thread how minor that bit of history was compared to atrocities perpetrated by other allies we have.Does japan,Gemany,Vietnam, also have a much worse record of violence,spying and murder against us then Israel.How about France and it's actions in the past......
Just my 2cents.All war sucks,all violence sucks all countries are guilty of stupid actions.Why are we singling out the Jews???