BB,the reason I even jumped in here was in reaction to your response of the story above.We are so quick to skip over the horrific murder without comment and go right to "can't wait to see Israel's response" .Are we becoming desensitized.I in no way think you are a Rascist,so please don't think that.I was just taking back with the whole gloss over the act thing.
Maybe the comment was made with the understanding that maybe the synagogue attack was in retaliation to the bus driver hanging and now what will be Israel's response?...."harsh"
So the discussion mirrors the conflict? Acts of violence against innocent people are ok if they are in retaliation to something else?The cycle has to end.Peace can't be achieved without someone taking the high road.
Who said the synagogue attack was ok? What realistic high road do you suggest an oppressed population take? What high road would you take say if a group or state killed your children and demolished your home?
The answer isn't to murder innocent people.That makes the oppressed just as bad as the oppressor.I am not in any way arguing the merits of either side in this conflict.That is some muddy fucking water and I'm not getting sucked in to that debate again.I get the angst of an oppressed people.If fighting back is called for then fight back against soldiers or governments,Officials,whatever.But individuals attacking innocent people is cold blooded murder and terrorism plain and simple.If you support attacking innocent civilians as a form of revenge/retaliation against those peoples government then you are supporting terror.And that goes both ways.When the state murders innocent people needlessly(yes ,I know this happens a lot over there)It's equally as atrocious.And equally wrong.
The answer isn't to murder innocent people.That makes the oppressed just as bad as the oppressor.I am not in any way arguing the merits of either side in this conflict.That is some muddy fucking water and I'm not getting sucked in to that debate again.I get the angst of an oppressed people.If fighting back is called for then fight back against soldiers or governments,Officials,whatever.But individuals attacking innocent people is cold blooded murder and terrorism plain and simple.If you support attacking innocent civilians as a form of revenge/retaliation against those peoples government then you are supporting terror.And that goes both ways.When the state murders innocent people needlessly(yes ,I know this happens a lot over there)It's equally as atrocious.And equally wrong.
Agreed but I'm not assuming the people that were killed were innocent. How do you know they weren't involved in the hanging of Yussuf al-Ramuni?
BTW, they do fight back against soldiers.......by throwing rocks at them!
Hypothetically, how would you fight back against me if I pinned you down on your stomach with your hands tied behind your back while choking you from behind?
The answer isn't to murder innocent people.That makes the oppressed just as bad as the oppressor.I am not in any way arguing the merits of either side in this conflict.That is some muddy fucking water and I'm not getting sucked in to that debate again.I get the angst of an oppressed people.If fighting back is called for then fight back against soldiers or governments,Officials,whatever.But individuals attacking innocent people is cold blooded murder and terrorism plain and simple.If you support attacking innocent civilians as a form of revenge/retaliation against those peoples government then you are supporting terror.And that goes both ways.When the state murders innocent people needlessly(yes ,I know this happens a lot over there)It's equally as atrocious.And equally wrong.
Agreed but I'm not assuming the people that were killed were innocent. How do you know they weren't involved in the hanging of Yussuf al-Ramuni?
BTW, they do fight back against soldiers.......by throwing rocks at them!
Hypothetically, how would you fight back against me if I pinned you down on your stomach with your hands tied behind your back while choking you from behind?
Well, I wouldn't go to your neighborhood and kill your kids preschool teacher or gas station attendant because you beat my ass.You did the deed your the revenge target. I would stalk you like prey,find your weaknesses and exploit them to my advantage.Then make dam sure you knew exactly what happens when you fuck with me.At that point when your released from the trauma center,I'm sure you would think twice about doing it again.Hypothetically of course
JC,I'm sorry my friend but there is NO justification for retaliation against innocent folks.
Obviously were not following each other. 1. You're assuming innocence, I'm not 2. My hypothetical draws comparison to Israel vs Palestine (you cant get up your pinned, tied up and choked off!)
JC,I'm sorry my friend but there is NO justification for retaliation against innocent folks.
Obviously were not following each other. 1. You're assuming innocence, I'm not 2. My hypothetical draws comparison to Israel vs Palestine (you cant get up your pinned, tied up and choked off!)
If it had been 3 American and 1 British Imans killed today by Israelis rather than rabbis would you still assume guilt on the part of the Imans?
JC,I'm sorry my friend but there is NO justification for retaliation against innocent folks.
Obviously were not following each other. 1. You're assuming innocence, I'm not 2. My hypothetical draws comparison to Israel vs Palestine (you cant get up your pinned, tied up and choked off!)
If it had been 3 American and 1 British Imans killed today by Israelis rather than rabbis would you still assume guilt on the part of the Imans?
I'm not understanding...it's my opinion that the synagogue killings were direct retaliation for the killing of yusuf ramouni and mohamed abu khadeir.
Btw, the fbi is investigating the attack because 3 of the 4 were US nationals. I wonder if the fbi ever investigated Israel for killing American nationals like 14 year old Orwah Hammad?
Keeping things fair on here,it's important to point out the violence perpetrated on both sides.There is in my opinion an excessive amount of vitriol and negativity cast toward the Israelis.A lot of bashing.Dont get me wrong they are not angels and deserve the critique and by no means have no blood on their hands for many horrible actions. There is not much discussion about the violence and unrest caused from the other side.The murder in the synagogue is just an act of evil against innocents and is no better then bombing kids playing soccer. I get some of the posters on this board hate and anger toward Israel but that should be directed to the state and not the gen population.Much like Not holding all Muslims responsible for the acts of a few.Its my opinion some of the views do borderline on inappropriate and I think it walks a slippery slope. All the talk in about 3 threads are all anti Israel.Must be careful where there is smoke many times fire is not far behind.I noticed during the "Israel attacked America"Thread how minor that bit of history was compared to atrocities perpetrated by other allies we have.Does japan,Gemany,Vietnam, also have a much worse record of violence,spying and murder against us then Israel.How about France and it's actions in the past...... Just my 2cents.All war sucks,all violence sucks all countries are guilty of stupid actions.Why are we singling out the Jews???
JC,I'm sorry my friend but there is NO justification for retaliation against innocent folks.
Obviously were not following each other. 1. You're assuming innocence, I'm not 2. My hypothetical draws comparison to Israel vs Palestine (you cant get up your pinned, tied up and choked off!)
If it had been 3 American and 1 British Imans killed today by Israelis rather than rabbis would you still assume guilt on the part of the Imans?
I'm not understanding...it's my opinion that the synagogue killings were direct retaliation for the killing of yusuf ramouni and mohamed abu khadeir.
Btw, the fbi is investigating the attack because 3 of the 4 were US nationals. I wonder if the fbi ever investigated Israel for killing American nationals like 14 year old Orwah Hammad
You said you were assuming guilt not innocence. That these were revenge killings.
With that kind of statement you make all Israelis in including Israeli Christians, Israeli Palestinians, Israeli atheists, and Israeli Jews guilty of something they had no involvement in and therefore possible victims of revenge killings.
You seem to be good with revenge killings. But only in one direction.
where did i say i was assuming guilt not innocence? saying lets not assume those killed are innocent is in no way the same as saying those killed were guilty. im saying lets not make assumptions.
explain how information that the killings were in revenge have anything to do with me being good with revenge killings? this is a huge leap not to mention a horribly failed attempt at a "gotcha"... but i still would like to hear your rationale?
The implication here is that the four dead rabbis killed al-Rabuni? That the two Palestinian attackers knew this, and that is why they targeted the synagogue? Is that the argument being put forth?
The implication here is that the four dead rabbis killed al-Rabuni? That the two Palestinian attackers knew this, and that is why they targeted the synagogue? Is that the argument being put forth?
No, I'm simply saying I'm not assuming those killed were innocent. Saying that innocents shouldn't be killed is assuming they were innocent.
The implication here is that the four dead rabbis killed al-Rabuni? That the two Palestinian attackers knew this, and that is why they targeted the synagogue? Is that the argument being put forth?
No, I'm simply saying I'm not assuming those killed were innocent. Saying that innocents shouldn't be killed is assuming they were innocent.
Fair enough.
While the particular synagogue may have been targeted, the specific killings themselves appear to be random.
No. That is not fair enough. Innocent until proven guilty. The implication is clearly that perhaps these rabbis had it coming. That is foul and disgusting. This guy is an apologist for murderers. I can't believe this discussion is even happening.
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane
Dancing in the streets,handing out candy and celebrating.Thats what Hammas was doing to celebrate the murder of the Rabbis.(CBS evening news).Fucking sickening!!!!! I guess terrorist attacks on innocent people are something to celebrate.
Keeping things fair on here,it's important to point out the violence perpetrated on both sides.There is in my opinion an excessive amount of vitriol and negativity cast toward the Israelis.A lot of bashing.Dont get me wrong they are not angels and deserve the critique and by no means have no blood on their hands for many horrible actions. There is not much discussion about the violence and unrest caused from the other side.The murder in the synagogue is just an act of evil against innocents and is no better then bombing kids playing soccer. I get some of the posters on this board hate and anger toward Israel but that should be directed to the state and not the gen population.Much like Not holding all Muslims responsible for the acts of a few.Its my opinion some of the views do borderline on inappropriate and I think it walks a slippery slope. All the talk in about 3 threads are all anti Israel.Must be careful where there is smoke many times fire is not far behind.I noticed during the "Israel attacked America"Thread how minor that bit of history was compared to atrocities perpetrated by other allies we have.Does japan,Gemany,Vietnam, also have a much worse record of violence,spying and murder against us then Israel.How about France and it's actions in the past...... Just my 2cents.All war sucks,all violence sucks all countries are guilty of stupid actions.Why are we singling out the Jews???
it is not about them being jews. their government is rogue and thuggish. that is why i rage against them. i couldn't care less if they are jewish, atheist, catholic, whatever. the policies of their government are what is driving my anger at them.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
So the discussion mirrors the conflict? Acts of violence against innocent people are ok if they are in retaliation to something else?The cycle has to end.Peace can't be achieved without someone taking the high road.
today's attacks were stupid and uncalled for and disgusting. i strongly condemn the two responsible for these senseless attacks. things like this damage the palestinians' cause.
to me there is nothing more low than attacking someone when they are praying at a holy site. i am an atheist, but even i get it. i respect people praying at a church or mosque. as an atheist, i believe that holy places should be safe havens and off limits for attacks.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
Keeping things fair on here,it's important to point out the violence perpetrated on both sides.There is in my opinion an excessive amount of vitriol and negativity cast toward the Israelis.A lot of bashing.Dont get me wrong they are not angels and deserve the critique and by no means have no blood on their hands for many horrible actions. There is not much discussion about the violence and unrest caused from the other side.The murder in the synagogue is just an act of evil against innocents and is no better then bombing kids playing soccer. I get some of the posters on this board hate and anger toward Israel but that should be directed to the state and not the gen population.Much like Not holding all Muslims responsible for the acts of a few.Its my opinion some of the views do borderline on inappropriate and I think it walks a slippery slope. All the talk in about 3 threads are all anti Israel.Must be careful where there is smoke many times fire is not far behind.I noticed during the "Israel attacked America"Thread how minor that bit of history was compared to atrocities perpetrated by other allies we have.Does japan,Gemany,Vietnam, also have a much worse record of violence,spying and murder against us then Israel.How about France and it's actions in the past...... Just my 2cents.All war sucks,all violence sucks all countries are guilty of stupid actions.Why are we singling out the Jews???
it is not about them being jews. their government is rogue and thuggish. that is why i rage against them. i couldn't care less if they are jewish, atheist, catholic, whatever. the policies of their government are what is driving my anger at them.
That is a fair response.How do you feel about Hammas on the other side Rod?
So the discussion mirrors the conflict? Acts of violence against innocent people are ok if they are in retaliation to something else?The cycle has to end.Peace can't be achieved without someone taking the high road.
it is hard to take a high road when roads in israel are segregated...
just saying....
these petty attacks are a symptom of the conflict and occupation. not the cause of it.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
No. That is not fair enough. Innocent until proven guilty. The implication is clearly that perhaps these rabbis had it coming. That is foul and disgusting. This guy is an apologist for murderers. I can't believe this discussion is even happening.
if they were 4 mullahs would you be as outraged?
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
Dancing in the streets,handing out candy and celebrating.Thats what Hammas was doing to celebrate the murder of the Rabbis.(CBS evening news).Fucking sickening!!!!! I guess terrorist attacks on innocent people are something to celebrate.
that is the same shit that was reported before. it was this big outrage that palestinian kids were photographed holding up the two fingers, "V for Victory" symbol, when they were actually holding up a fucking peace sign for the camera. a simple picture became propaganda to cultivate american anti muslim sentiment. and it worked.
i do not trust cbs at all. remember, lara logan's completely fabricated report centered on a lying discredited source? remember cbs reported falsely on cw bush's service record? you know, the one that cost dan rather his job?
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
No. That is not fair enough. Innocent until proven guilty. The implication is clearly that perhaps these rabbis had it coming. That is foul and disgusting. This guy is an apologist for murderers. I can't believe this discussion is even happening.
if they were 4 mullahs would you be as outraged?
Yes.
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane
Dancing in the streets,handing out candy and celebrating.Thats what Hammas was doing to celebrate the murder of the Rabbis.(CBS evening news).Fucking sickening!!!!! I guess terrorist attacks on innocent people are something to celebrate.
that is the same shit that was reported before. it was this big outrage that palestinian kids were photographed holding up the two fingers, "V for Victory" symbol, when they were actually holding up a fucking peace sign for the camera. a simple picture became propaganda to cultivate american anti muslim sentiment. and it worked.
i do not trust cbs at all. remember, lara logan's completely fabricated report centered on a lying discredited source? remember cbs reported falsely on cw bush's service record? you know, the one that cost dan rather his job?
Really? You're denying that segments of the Palestinian population celebrate terror attacks? This has been common knowledge for so long that it's not even worth mentioning anymore. It happens every time there is a terror attack. It happens. Deal with it.
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane
So the discussion mirrors the conflict? Acts of violence against innocent people are ok if they are in retaliation to something else?The cycle has to end.Peace can't be achieved without someone taking the high road.
it is hard to take a high road when roads in israel are segregated...
just saying....
these petty attacks are a symptom of the conflict and occupation. not the cause of it.
True,But still wrong and not justified.Murder for whatever reason is Murder
So the discussion mirrors the conflict? Acts of violence against innocent people are ok if they are in retaliation to something else?The cycle has to end.Peace can't be achieved without someone taking the high road.
it is hard to take a high road when roads in israel are segregated...
just saying....
these petty attacks are a symptom of the conflict and occupation. not the cause of it.
They're not segregated in Israel. In Israel Jews and Arabs share the same roads. They're segregated in the occupied West Bank, which isn't part of Israel. I know distinctions are annoying for you to deal with, but in the interest of honest conversation perhaps we could acknowledge reality.
And I think it's kind of disgusting to refer to murder as "petty attacks."
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane
I absolutely believe there were Palestinians celebrating this attack. The same as I believe there were Israelis cheering on the rockets as they slammed into Gaza.
Comments
What realistic high road do you suggest an oppressed population take?
What high road would you take say if a group or state killed your children and demolished your home?
BTW, they do fight back against soldiers.......by throwing rocks at them!
Hypothetically, how would you fight back against me if I pinned you down on your stomach with your hands tied behind your back while choking you from behind?
I would stalk you like prey,find your weaknesses and exploit them to my advantage.Then make dam sure you knew exactly what happens when you fuck with me.At that point when your released from the trauma center,I'm sure you would think twice about doing it again.Hypothetically of course
1. You're assuming innocence, I'm not
2. My hypothetical draws comparison to Israel vs Palestine (you cant get up your pinned, tied up and choked off!)
Btw, the fbi is investigating the attack because 3 of the 4 were US nationals. I wonder if the fbi ever investigated Israel for killing American nationals like 14 year old Orwah Hammad?
http://ifamericansknew.org/
With that kind of statement you make all Israelis in including Israeli Christians, Israeli Palestinians, Israeli atheists, and Israeli Jews guilty of something they had no involvement in and therefore possible victims of revenge killings.
You seem to be good with revenge killings.
But only in one direction.
saying lets not assume those killed are innocent is in no way the same as saying those killed were guilty. im saying lets not make assumptions.
explain how information that the killings were in revenge have anything to do with me being good with revenge killings? this is a huge leap not to mention a horribly failed attempt at a "gotcha"... but i still would like to hear your rationale?
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
While the particular synagogue may have been targeted, the specific killings themselves appear to be random.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
to me there is nothing more low than attacking someone when they are praying at a holy site. i am an atheist, but even i get it. i respect people praying at a church or mosque. as an atheist, i believe that holy places should be safe havens and off limits for attacks.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
just saying....
these petty attacks are a symptom of the conflict and occupation. not the cause of it.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
i do not trust cbs at all. remember, lara logan's completely fabricated report centered on a lying discredited source? remember cbs reported falsely on cw bush's service record? you know, the one that cost dan rather his job?
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
And I think it's kind of disgusting to refer to murder as "petty attacks."
"...I changed by not changing at all..."