Another good guy stops attack

unsung

Even the NY Times gets it.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/09/14/sunday-review/the-assault-weapon-myth.html?_r=1&referrer=


One of the best articles I've read in a long time.

mickeyrat

where was the good guy to help these two?

http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/13/justice/pennsylvania-shooting/index.html?sr=fb091314TrooperShooting10aVODtopLink

unsung

The good guys can't protect the police, just like the police can't protect us.

CM189191

unsung said:

Even the NY Times gets it.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/09/14/sunday-review/the-assault-weapon-myth.html?_r=1&referrer=


One of the best articles I've read in a long time.

I'm glad you brought this up. So the point would be to regulate ALL guns? Not just 'assault' rifles?

callen

unsung said:

The good guys can't protect the police, just like the police can't protect us.

Have pretty good police force in my neck of the woods. Will allow them to deal with the baddies.

unsung

So if you are out walking your kids who is responsible for their protection?

brianlux

The fact of the matter is, for every "good guy with a gun story" there are ten more like this:

http://news.yahoo.com/newborn-dies-pregnant-woman-shot-death-104112086.html

Newborn dies after mother killed by stray bullet
PHILADELPHIA (AP) — A baby born to a woman fatally wounded by a stray bullet while sitting outside her home has died, police said Monday.

Megan Doto, 25, whose due date was next month, was struck in the face late Sunday morning by a bullet that had traveled several hundred yards down the street, police Capt. Steven Murianka said.

The woman was pronounced dead early Sunday afternoon after being rushed to Temple University Hospital, where doctors were able to deliver the baby by emergency Caesarean section, authorities said.

The child died about 13 hours after her mother, police said.

Doto had written on her Facebook page that the baby was due next month and she was planning on naming the boy Carmine Joseph.

Police Commissioner Charles Ramsey expressed outrage.

"These guys don't care about daylight, they don't care about it being a Sunday, they don't care how beautiful the weather," Ramsey told radio station KYW. "They're just evil thugs and they will do whatever, whenever they can."

Police did not have any suspects.

"A young girl that's about to have a baby and all of a sudden stuff like this happens," the victim's former landlord, Hector Rosado, told WPVI-TV. "It's very bad, she was a nice girl."

callen

unsung said:

So if you are out walking your kids who is responsible for their protection?

I know that I'm okay and there aren't people out to get me or my family.

Gern Blansten

And again...no need for an open carry assault rifle. A nice concealed pistol will do the trick.

unsung

I'm not necessarily disagreeing there.

unsung

callen said:

unsung said:

So if you are out walking your kids who is responsible for their protection?

I know that I'm okay and there aren't people out to get me or my family.

Unfortunately it happens, even to those that think it can't happen to them.

So again, you are out walking your kids, your four year old looks up to who to protect her?

callen

unsung said:

callen said:

unsung said:

So if you are out walking your kids who is responsible for their protection?

I know that I'm okay and there aren't people out to get me or my family.

Unfortunately it happens, even to those that think it can't happen to them.

So again, you are out walking your kids, your four year old looks up to who to protect her?

Having a gun increases odds that either myself or my family is injured or killed by a gun. Also the odds are low and responsibility and pain in the ass of having a gun loaded and on me at all times in event that I may be able to use it aren't worth it. Guy walks behind me and sticks me up. Let's say I was with child would I get into gun battle. Hell no. They can have my stuff. No they aren't going to kidnap or some paranoid stuff.

Guns don't make you safer. They are a liability.

CM189191

unsung said:

callen said:

unsung said:

So if you are out walking your kids who is responsible for their protection?

I know that I'm okay and there aren't people out to get me or my family.

Unfortunately it happens, even to those that think it can't happen to them.

So again, you are out walking your kids, your four year old looks up to who to protect her?

Really? How many times have you been assaulted/robbed/etc while out on a walk around the block?

Because I go for walks all the time and that shiat has never happened to me...

unsung

callen said:

unsung said:

callen said:

unsung said:

So if you are out walking your kids who is responsible for their protection?

I know that I'm okay and there aren't people out to get me or my family.

Unfortunately it happens, even to those that think it can't happen to them.

So again, you are out walking your kids, your four year old looks up to who to protect her?

Having a gun increases odds that either myself or my family is injured or killed by a gun. Also the odds are low and responsibility and pain in the ass of having a gun loaded and on me at all times in event that I may be able to use it aren't worth it. Guy walks behind me and sticks me up. Let's say I was with child would I get into gun battle. Hell no. They can have my stuff. No they aren't going to kidnap or some paranoid stuff.

Guns don't make you safer. They are a liability.

Do you have a fire extinguisher?

CM189191

unsung said:

callen said:

unsung said:

callen said:

unsung said:

So if you are out walking your kids who is responsible for their protection?

I know that I'm okay and there aren't people out to get me or my family.

Unfortunately it happens, even to those that think it can't happen to them.

So again, you are out walking your kids, your four year old looks up to who to protect her?

Having a gun increases odds that either myself or my family is injured or killed by a gun. Also the odds are low and responsibility and pain in the ass of having a gun loaded and on me at all times in event that I may be able to use it aren't worth it. Guy walks behind me and sticks me up. Let's say I was with child would I get into gun battle. Hell no. They can have my stuff. No they aren't going to kidnap or some paranoid stuff.

Guns don't make you safer. They are a liability.

Do you have a fire extinguisher?

Yes, and it comes with a whole host of regulations.

Do you have a point?

unsung

Fires are rare. Paranoid?

CM189191

unsung said:

Fires are rare. Paranoid?

Fire extinguishers put out more fires than they create. Guns do not 'save' more people than they 'kill'.

There were 365,000 home fires in 2012. There were 8,855 firearm-related homicides in 2012 and 19,990 suicides in 2011.

I would argue you're the one that's paranoid. But this isn't a debate about your perception of reality, this is reality. If you're going to banter; then at least research, cite references, do the math, and show your work. That is to say, everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts,

I'll just leave this here...



We're #1! We're #1! We're #1! USA! USA! USA!

benjs

unsung said:

Fires are rare. Paranoid?

I feel a lot safer with a fire extinguisher in my house to combat unlikely fires than I suspect I would with a gun in my house to combat the unlikely event of thieves or malicious-intended persons entering my house without my prior consent.

Maybe it has something to do with the primary purposes of the two: not too many stories of fire extinguishers being utilized as weapons. I think I've heard of one or two relating to guns.
I could also opt to keep a bat, ninja stars, nunchucks, an axe, set of bow and arrows, or a knife under my bed, but for what ever reason I don't.

I assume you're trying to use the logical notion that unpleasant, rare, and unforeseeable events (such as fires or robberies) should be pre-empted by keeping possession of tools to diminish or eliminate the risk of said events (such as fire extinguishers and guns).

There are a few different ways to tackle this:
1) Whereas a fire extinguisher is a unique tool to combat fires (within an affordable range), a gun is one of many tools which can combat a robber (including numerous non-lethal options such as the purchase of security features like alarm systems or better locks).

2) Whereas a fire extinguisher poses minimal risk during non-critical event periods (with the exception of someone hitting another person over the head with it), a gun poses many (i.e. nosy children, irresponsible or paranoid users, etc.)

3) Whereas a fire extinguisher poses minimal risk during critical event periods (see above), a gun poses much (i.e. impulsive and pre-emptive attacking when adrenaline takes over)

4) Whereas a fire extinguisher is not historically linked with personal abuse (i.e. the person hitting another over the head with it is quite a rarity), a gun has a precedent attached to it due to any number of variables which can include poor profiling prior to granting eligibility for training, poor training, attainment of said weapon from illegitimate channels which negate those two prerequisites for acquisition, sudden mental developments or relapses of moments of reason leading to murderous rampages, or neglect of humanity in favour of personal/monetary/romantic gains.

These are four ways I can think of in which comparing fire extinguishers' presence in our lives to guns' is (from my perspective) fallacious. If anyone can rebut any of these or add to the list, I look forward to reading about it.

jeffbr

Just saw this on the local news. A woman used a fire extinguisher as a weapon in a robbery. Just thought it was funny that I saw this story this morning on the news and see that this thread has veered to fire extinguishers.
http://catchwmw.com/2014/09/12/violent-female-robber-shes-a-wmw-first-caught-on-camera-assaulting-gas-station-clerk-with-a-fire-extinguisher/

CM189191

jeffbr said:

Just saw this on the local news. A woman used a fire extinguisher as a weapon in a robbery. Just thought it was funny that I saw this story this morning on the news and see that this thread has veered to fire extinguishers.
http://catchwmw.com/2014/09/12/violent-female-robber-shes-a-wmw-first-caught-on-camera-assaulting-gas-station-clerk-with-a-fire-extinguisher/

You'll notice no one died during this fire-extinguisher related robbery. Now, I know what you're thinking, if only the gas station clerk had a bigger, fully automatic fire-extinguisher with which to protect himself; then perhaps he wouldn't have been robbed!