"We paced ourselves and we didn't rush through it and we tried to be as creative as our collective minds would let us be over some course of time instead of just trying to rush through a record"
"We paced ourselves and we didn't rush through it and we tried to be as creative as our collective minds would let us be over some course of time instead of just trying to rush through a record"
2) i have something to say re: yield vis a vis into the wild but i will wait for monday. so i can get paid to spend time on this board.
Nothing yet, huh?
PBM
"We paced ourselves and we didn't rush through it and we tried to be as creative as our collective minds would let us be over some course of time instead of just trying to rush through a record"
It became quite obvious after the first listen that Ed’s new soundtrack had much to do with YIELD. Let me break this down three ways: What is similar, what is not, and finally, why this matters.
How Into the Wild is similar to YIELD
Not to make a mountain out of a molehill, but the soundtrack has a similar progression in sound to YIELD.
Setting Forth gets things going and it, like Brain of J, doesn’t have too much of a point. I do like the aah-oohs though and I surely would never skip it.
No Ceiling, just like Faithfull, is about belief. It’s about a deep meaning and a deep wisdom – a complicated question with a very simple question. It hints at what lies at the core of Into the Wild, which is the idea that we are always improving, always evolving mentally in how we conceive the world. As in Faithfull, where the conclusion is that with all the confusion and madness going on around us all we can do is to be faithful to what we know, what lies in front of us. I get the same vibe from No Ceiling: “I leave here believing/more than I had/this love has got no ceiling” describes the same process – getting the most out of what is right in front of us, setting aside the worthless clutter of bad ideas and wastes of our time.
Far Behind is my favorite song on the new one. It just sounds like a great old Who song or something and it seems like it could’ve been a YIELD session b-side. There is the theme of the road here, “a world begins where the road ends/watch me leave it all behind.” Similar vibe to No Way? In a way, but I guess it resonates more with MFC…just getting the hell out of there and starting anew on the other side.
Rise is Given to Fly’s sister song, at least to me. “Gonna rise up/turning mistakes into gold.” Clearly a song about starting over again, but it’s more than just running away. It’s about this idea of getting rid of the bad, washing away the wastes and getting to the core of what is important. I think the “find my direction magnetically” is important too. Perhaps the character in the movie uses a compass, but the line itself speaks of following a greater force that leads – whether this be intuition, fate or something else. Plus, the uke is just gorgeous here. We’ve come a long way from Soon Forget.
Long Nights made an instant connection to Wishlist with me. Long Nights seems like the character’s note to the people and place he is leaving, explaining why is he going and what he intends to find. This fits my Wishlist theory that the song is more of a list of shortcomings someone sends to the one they can never satisfy. Long Nights is the same for me because it says: this isn’t working, we can’t keep doing this. “For when I’m alone/I’ll be better off/than I was before/I’ve got this life/I’ll be around to grow/who I was before/ I cannot recall.”
Tuolumne is a strange little thing in the middle here, nice melody. It can be Pilate.
Hard Sun and DTE. The big singles here, I guess among other things. DTE is about ultimate and future doom and the big red sun can stand for that in one way. It’s a good song, but it’s too much of a chorus orgy for me. Coulda been a minute shorter or so. My theory is quickly falling apart.
Society is another good one, another cover, another chorus orgy. I do think “When you want more than you have/you think you need/when you think more than you want/your thoughts begin to bleed” resonates with the YIELD concepts of pointless consumerism and wanting turning to needing. The other point is that over-thinking is a problem too, the idea is we need to just up and go sometimes, be spontaneous, just do it. Again, having not seen the movie or read the book I’m flying blind here, but that is a major emphasis for the film. Just up and go on a whim, some sort of magnetic, forceful whim. Therefore, it does mesh with MFC somewhat.
The Wolf does seem to have a Low Light vibe in there somewhere…just light Low Light is a call out to some sort of past and buried tragedy, the Wolf has that mournful yet transcendent feel.
End of the Road doesn’t quite match to In Hiding well. A few words melt into this spacey instrumental jam (which is pretty cool, but not the monster riffage of IH) But, if we are to believe that In Hiding derives from the Bukowski notion of hiding away to regain your own sanity, to recapture it from the depravity of society…than maybe this idea of “find a way where/the sky meets the earth” melts into the Push Me Pull Me line: “where the land meets high tide.” “It’s alright/and all wrong/for me it begins/at the end of the road/we come and go.” Surely RK can shed some light on this, but the PMPM vibe just comes right out of this little snippet of a lyrical delivery on the soundtrack.
Guaranteed fits with ATY in that it is about growing beyond the constraints of the past, of things that no longer matter. It is a song for the arrival at the new destination. “I knew all the rules/but the rules did not know me/guaranteed” sound on surface like something a middle schooler might say when taken to the Principal’s office…but the idea is that we all have that awesome power of free will, to not be constrained by anything, ever. What’s to stop us from running away to the woods right now and never coming back? Pressure…hopes for a future that may not even exist…many things, but no physical chains.
How Into the Wild Differs from YIELD
Obviously, it doesn’t rock as hard, it isn’t as long. It’s not YIELD. In Hiding is not represented very well by anything here because the In Hiding idea is about recharging to go back to what sapped one in the first place. Into the Wild is about escaping permanently and forever. Low Light is missing somewhat and No Way to an extent. It doesn’t quite flow as well either, although the instrumental tracks help pull it along.
Ed wrote everything here too. YIELD has that balance of songwriters and sounds, which is important to note.
Also, the hidden track is just Guaranteed with humming. Not as delightfully original as Hummus, but still delightful nonetheless.
Why this Matters
Again, the theme of the end of the road is where it begins. YIELD seems to be about the road itself, with the cover art, the traffic sign thing, MFC: escaping while all the while intending to stop at some other destination down the line.
Into the Wild breaks off as the idea where the road itself is no good, I must escape the whole thing all by myself. It’s a much more desperate notion of escapism – one that still holds hope for the individual, but not for what the road stands for as a whole.
My initial reaction is the blame the shortcomings of the soundtrack on the film in that Ed wrote these things to fit specific notches of time and purpose for the film. YIELD was certainly more free-form.
Still, it raises the Vedderian question of escape to another level. What are we to do? Should be try to take a break and allow things to work themselves out in the future as YIELD proposes? Or shall we pack up a backpack and just go off on our own, taking what we know and hope to find what we seek at the end of the road?
YIELD clearly seems like the way to go, and again, I’ll blame this on the film. The soundtrack was still a solid effort, and one I’ll listen to often in the future. It’s not a wannabe YIELD – it asks another question entirely – but the premise is entirely predicated on this film. It just isn’t as magical as the accidental concept album we know as YIELD. It’s a forced concept album, a well-done one albeit, but a forced attempt.
Wow. You've outdone even yourself this time Will. Very nicely done.
I'll touch on a lot of this throughout the day. I'd like to start, though, by following up on the basic themes of the article....how it's similar, how it's different, and why it matters.
As for the similarities, I think you covered that more thoroughly than any of us could. I've often been surprised Ed hasn't made a solo album, and I think part of the reason is that he's already poured out most of his life in his songs for PJ. There just doesn't seem to be much left to give in a solo effort. But something simple that you said really resonated with me. You talked about "the Vedderian question of escape", and that really got me thinking. In many ways, I think you could argue that in addition to a poet/songwriter/whatever, you could make a case for Ed as a philosopher. Throughout PJ's catalogue Ed has constantly touched on theories of escape and, starting especially with YIELD, the contrasting philosophy of giving way. We've developed our thoughts on YIELD in a way that could fill up an entire chapter of a philosophy textbook on escape vs YIELDing. So what does this have to do with Into The Wild? Well, I see it as almost an appendix to the YIELD chapter of the Vedderian Philosophy on Life. I think Into the Wild is a stunning microcosm of the YIELD philosophy. And to me, I think this microcosm can be found frozen in time somewhere between Wishlist and MFC. Yes, it absolutely touches on songs that fall outside of this realm, but it seems especially focused on escape. It's like having the ability to freeze time, and if we were to freeze YIELD on MFC, and take a closer look inside, we would find much of Into The Wild.
So how is it different? Well, it's clearly different on a lot of different levels. specifically, it differs in form and function. You mentioned it doesn't rock as hard as YIELD, and that's certainly true, but I also don't think the music itself helps tell the story in the same way that YIELD does. In the case of YIELD, the music itself is every bit as poignant and meaningful as the words themselves, and as I've talked about in length before, a lot of that has to do with the distribution of songwriting. Here, it's solely Ed's vision, which perhaps makes it so overwhelmingly esoteric that it's harder to follow where the music is going. As for function, well, that's obvious as you pointed out....Into The Wild was written for a specific purpose and with a use in mind. YIELD came about much more naturally. Intentional vs accidental concept albums. You hit that one directly on the head.
And so why does this matter? Well, I suppose that depends on what each of us tries to get out of music. But for those of us who congregate in this thread, we tend to yearn for the meaning behind both the music and the words when we listen to albums. We try not to take things too much out of context because we yearn to not only listen to the songs, but to also digest them and process them and to take something out of it that we can make our own and apply to our lives. So to me, it's extremely important that we understand the similarities and differences of these 2 albums. And it's only natural that we would do so because as you said, Will, it's so immediately obvious how connected Into The Wild is to YIELD. I think when all is said and done, I will view Into The Wild as yet another accompanying piece to the overall chapter of YIELD (similar to the way I view No Code). You're right, this album clearly is not YIELD and we need not make more out of this than it is, but is the perfect companion to YIELD, and I can easily see myself adding it to my regimen when I listen to No Code and YIELD successively....Into The Wild might make sense as the first part. Into The Wild -> No Code -> YIELD. To me, that is the context in which all of this works and makes the most sense.
--"I'm like an opening band for the sun"
--"We’re taking pills to get along with life… the pills are YIELD and PJ’s music. Then we create words to call our own = our analysis of YIELD." - YIH
I find this similarity interesting, in light of what was said about yield a while ago and also the several interpretations of McCandless's actions.
It seems to me that by stressing the similarities between Yield and ITW, we are more inclined to see McCandless as someone who was moving towards something, rather than someone who wanted simply to go away from it all. This seems to be how Penn and Vedder read the Kracauer book
... and the will to show I will always be better than before.
I find this similarity interesting, in light of what was said about yield a while ago and also the several interpretations of McCandless's actions.
It seems to me that by stressing the similarities between Yield and ITW, we are more inclined to see McCandless as someone who was moving towards something, rather than someone who wanted simply to go away from it all. This seems to be how Penn and Vedder read the Kracauer book
I find this fascinating because I think it's debatable as to whether the end result was positive or negative. I know Penn has said he views it as positive, but I'm not sure I agree. I guess perhaps we need to understand how Ed feels about this, because if he feels it was positive, then perhaps it is moving towards something. But if the end result is negative, then you could argue Into The Wild is yet another warning about escapism.
--"I'm like an opening band for the sun"
--"We’re taking pills to get along with life… the pills are YIELD and PJ’s music. Then we create words to call our own = our analysis of YIELD." - YIH
I find this fascinating because I think it's debatable as to whether the end result was positive or negative. I know Penn has said he views it as positive, but I'm not sure I agree. I guess perhaps we need to understand how Ed feels about this, because if he feels it was positive, then perhaps it is moving towards something. But if the end result is negative, then you could argue Into The Wild is yet another warning about escapism.
Wow... I had absolutely no doubt that Ed agrees with Penn, and still do, but it's interesting to see you are not sure. Did you watch the Charlie Rose interview? It is incredibly inspiring. I made my inferences based largely on that interview, and they fit with the record as I have listened to it. But I haven't seen the movie yet.
... and the will to show I will always be better than before.
Also, I don't mean to suggest that the fact that he died is a positive. I don't think Penn or Vedder believe this either. It would have been great if he had survived, for many reasons. But the tragic ending and the defeat by nature don't take anything from the beauty and the nobility of the challenge.
... and the will to show I will always be better than before.
Wow... I had absolutely no doubt that Ed agrees with Penn, and still do, but it's interesting to see you are not sure. Did you watch the Charlie Rose interview? It is incredibly inspiring. I made my inferences based largely on that interview, and they fit with the record as I have listened to it. But I haven't seen the movie yet.
I have not seen said interview, so maybe you know more about this subject than I do, but I don't see anything in the scope of just the album (ignoring the book and movie, as I have neither read nor seen it) that makes me feel stronger one way or the other in terms of it being a positive or negative outcome. I think the album seems to be much more about the journey and less about the destination.
As for my own personal feelings, I know nobody feels good about him dying. But my own feelings (granted, this is coming from a place of assumption and ignorance as I haven't read the book) are that while the journey was overwhelmingly positive, the destination ultimately was not. It's great that he was able to learn so much about life and himself and to achieve that level of enlightenment is admirable, but I think the cost was too high. To me, I don't feel it's worth one's own life. But again, I want to repeat that I think my point is debatable. I can clearly see it both ways. That's just where I'm coming from on this day.
--"I'm like an opening band for the sun"
--"We’re taking pills to get along with life… the pills are YIELD and PJ’s music. Then we create words to call our own = our analysis of YIELD." - YIH
I have not seen said interview, so maybe you know more about this subject than I do, but I don't see anything in the scope of just the album (ignoring the book and movie, as I have neither read nor seen it) that makes me feel stronger one way or the other in terms of it being a positive or negative outcome. I think the album seems to be much more about the journey and less about the destination.
As for my own personal feelings, I know nobody feels good about him dying. But my own feelings (granted, this is coming from a place of assumption and ignorance as I haven't read the book) are that while the journey was overwhelmingly positive, the destination ultimately was not. It's great that he was able to learn so much about life and himself and to achieve that level of enlightenment is admirable, but I think the cost was too high. To me, I don't feel it's worth one's own life. But again, I want to repeat that I think my point is debatable. I can clearly see it both ways. That's just where I'm coming from on this day.
To use your words, I don't think the outcome was positive, no one does. The point is: did he have a death wish? Was he so angry and disgusted by life that he just wanted to say hell with it? Or did he want to measure himself against nature, feel at one with it, go on a beautiful adventure and come to know who he was? I think it was more the latter than the former.
... and the will to show I will always be better than before.
Or did he want to measure himself against nature, feel at one with it, go on a beautiful adventure and come to know who he was? I think it was more the latter than the former.
Hmmm...I really need to watch this, read the book and listen to the soundtrack...I wish I could contribute because this conversation sounds like something we could dissect over some course of time.
PBM
"We paced ourselves and we didn't rush through it and we tried to be as creative as our collective minds would let us be over some course of time instead of just trying to rush through a record"
To use your words, I don't think the outcome was positive, no one does. The point is: did he have a death wish? Was he so angry and disgusted by life that he just wanted to say hell with it? Or did he want to measure himself against nature, feel at one with it, go on a beautiful adventure and come to know who he was? I think it was more the latter than the former.
Yeah, I understand all that and I can see why you and anyone else would feel that way about it. It makes perfect sense. Again, though, to me, I just don't feel it was worth the ultimate outcome. I would rather keep working in my office every day for the next 40 years and miss out on the enlightenment or "oneness" with nature than to experience his quest and end up dead. But that's personal. I don't think this kid was stupid or naive for going through what he did. If it worked for him, so be it. I just would not make the same choice, that's all.
--"I'm like an opening band for the sun"
--"We’re taking pills to get along with life… the pills are YIELD and PJ’s music. Then we create words to call our own = our analysis of YIELD." - YIH
Yeah, I understand all that and I can see why you and anyone else would feel that way about it. It makes perfect sense. Again, though, to me, I just don't feel it was worth the ultimate outcome. I would rather keep working in my office every day for the next 40 years and miss out on the enlightenment or "oneness" with nature than to experience his quest and end up dead. But that's personal. I don't think this kid was stupid or naive for going through what he did. If it worked for him, so be it. I just would not make the same choice, that's all.
But but but... he did not set out to die. If you think he did, then you are with the camp who thinks he had a death wish (I'm not saying they are wrong, I just disagree with them).
The ultimate outcome is something that will befall us all, whether we dare nature or not. I think you have to have an irony and a freedom about your life, whether you are sitting at your desk or climbing a dangerous mountain.
I have a child, and for me that means those kind of extreme choices are off the table. Yet, listening to Penn talk about McCandless... it is more about leaving behind all the craps that weighs you down.
... and the will to show I will always be better than before.
But but but... he did not set out to die. If you think he did, then you are with the camp who thinks he had a death wish (I'm not saying they are wrong, I just disagree with them).
The ultimate outcome is something that will befall us all, whether we dare nature or not. I think you have to have an irony and a freedom about your life, whether you are sitting at your desk or climbing a dangerous mountain.
I have a child, and for me that means those kind of extreme choices are off the table. Yet, listening to Penn talk about McCandless... it is more about leaving behind all the craps that weighs you down.
It's an interesting thought. I really don't know. I need to read the book before I can say any more about why he did it. But even if death wasn't his goal, is it still worth it? I don't have that answer.
--"I'm like an opening band for the sun"
--"We’re taking pills to get along with life… the pills are YIELD and PJ’s music. Then we create words to call our own = our analysis of YIELD." - YIH
It's an interesting thought. I really don't know. I need to read the book before I can say any more about why he did it. But even if death wasn't his goal, is it still worth it? I don't have that answer.
I think that's an answer you can only have for your own life.
And I haven't seen the movie nor read the book, but as a college teacher I have no qualms talking out of ... odd places.
... and the will to show I will always be better than before.
I think that's an answer you can only have for your own life.
And I haven't seen the movie nor read the book, but as a college teacher I have no qualms talking out of ... odd places.
I think you're probably right, and that's probably why this is able to be discussed so passionately....it's personal.
And as a pretentious asshole, I too regularly enjoy talking out of my ass
It's just that in this case, even my anatomy doesn't know what to say about it...
--"I'm like an opening band for the sun"
--"We’re taking pills to get along with life… the pills are YIELD and PJ’s music. Then we create words to call our own = our analysis of YIELD." - YIH
I think when all is said and done, I will view Into The Wild as yet another accompanying piece to the overall chapter of YIELD (similar to the way I view No Code). You're right, this album clearly is not YIELD and we need not make more out of this than it is, but is the perfect companion to YIELD, and I can easily see myself adding it to my regimen when I listen to No Code and YIELD successively....Into The Wild might make sense as the first part. Into The Wild -> No Code -> YIELD. To me, that is the context in which all of this works and makes the most sense.
This trilogy is perplexing. I am going to listen to No Code again...as it's been too long...before I give my thoughts on this proper.
However, the idea of this as a linear path is great. Into the Wild represents that initial feeling of, fuck it, I need to completely remove myself from all of this. That's the only solution.
Evolving into YIELD, which says, more or less, roll with the punches, do what you can and refresh rather than replace.
I guess my hangup at this point is my inadequacy to describe how No Code fits into this. I'm sure it will hit me (I can see Present Tense as a bridge here between the absolution of Wild and the sagacious wisdom of YIELD.) RK what was your thinking here?
Also what hit me today in Far Behind was the line: "Why contain yourself/like any other/book on the shelf?"
To me, it's all about the notion of totally escaping, of totally exercising your free will. I think there are parts of YIELD, ATY comes to mind, that hint at the cycle of change, of chapters, if you will. Our lives are books that come with lots of condensed stories with beginnings, middles and ends. One chapter bleeds into the next.
However, Far Behind and the rest of Wild is heavily based in the idea of breaking out of any containment, of any supposedly predetermined story.
Eh, that's it for now.
Will digest some No Code and get back.
I guess my hangup at this point is my inadequacy to describe how No Code fits into this. I'm sure it will hit me (I can see Present Tense as a bridge here between the absolution of Wild and the sagacious wisdom of YIELD.) RK what was your thinking here?
Well, it's tricky, for sure. No Code isn't an OBVIOUS fit in between Into the Wild and YIELD. No Code doesn't tell a story like YIELD does for sure and like you could argue Into The Wild does. No Code is not a concept album, although there are some central themes to the album.
So why the connection? Well, it works for me like this. I view it twofold. First, it is the deconstruction that must occur in order for the reconstruction of YIELD to make sense. Second, whereas I feel like YIELD deals more with the conflict between self and external forces, I think No Code balances this by focusing much more on conflict within self.
Let me start with the first one, the deconstruction. In my own personal view of the linear story of YIELD, it starts with Brain Of J and already the protagonist is feeling held down by all kinds of conflict. But how did he/she get there? I feel like No Code (and even Into The Wild to an extent) help answer that question. YIELD makes sense without it, but the beginning is a lot clearer within the context of No Code. Whereas YIELD is centralized and focused in both words and music, No Code is a bit of a train wreck. The track sequencing is nonsensical, the message is a bit all over the place, and even the music itself is so diverse and eclectic. This builds a strange sense of conflict and when I listen to No Code, I sometimes can almost feel the anxiety building inside myself. YIELD completely counteracts this. It's the calming influence. The reconstruction.
As for the second part, the internal conflicts. Yes, No Code deals a lot with love and human interaction, but it's also strikingly introverted. We've discussed the motion that exists within YIELD, well that is quite noticeably absent on No Code. You feel like the protagonist of No Code is stuck inside a dark room left alone to his/her thoughts. Songs like Sometimes, In My Tree, Smile, Off He Goes, Habit, Red Mosquito, Present Tense, I'm Open, and Around The Bend all create a feeling of isolation and/or loneliness to me. Even songs that deal with other people or things like Off He Goes and Habit still manage to make the focus seem to be on the author's own shortcomings and failures in life.
So I've just spent 2 paragraphs contrasting YIELD and No Code, and so the question surely remains, why does it make sense when paired with YIELD? They are so different on the surface. But for me, that's precisely WHY it works. Going through the struggles of Into The Wild and No Code, and having it all answered by closing with YIELD is a wonderful musical experience. It's a roller coaster of emotion and a journey of discovery. Being broken down and then built back up.
I can see why this wouldn't neccessarily work for everyone, because we all have our own slightly different variations of what both YIELD and No Code mean to us, but within my own context, I wouldn't have it any other way. I rarely listen to YIELD without first listening to No Code. I view them much as one big album. Putting this in terms of where you were going with this whole thing (life) being one big book, I think they are 2 very different but successive chapters that are dependent on each other.
I've already tried putting Into The Wild at the beginning of my own personal trilogy, and I gotta tell you, it was stunning. It worked SO well for me. I would recommend anyone who loves YIELD to try it at least once. Into The Wild -> No Code -> YIELD. It's a unique musical journey.
--"I'm like an opening band for the sun"
--"We’re taking pills to get along with life… the pills are YIELD and PJ’s music. Then we create words to call our own = our analysis of YIELD." - YIH
Comments
Ishmael comes to life.
PBM
Wishlist Foundation: http://wishlistfoundation.org
2) i have something to say re: yield vis a vis into the wild but i will wait for monday. so i can get paid to spend time on this board.
Seconded.
Hope you have a great day.
PBM
Wishlist Foundation: http://wishlistfoundation.org
1) Thank you much!
2) I'm looking forward to this. It's been a while since we've had a good YIELD discussion.
--"We’re taking pills to get along with life… the pills are YIELD and PJ’s music. Then we create words to call our own = our analysis of YIELD." - YIH
Thanks PBM. I did have a great day. The Indians clinched the Central on my birthday, just like I asked them to.
--"We’re taking pills to get along with life… the pills are YIELD and PJ’s music. Then we create words to call our own = our analysis of YIELD." - YIH
Good times.
I always thought Candlebox's "Far Behind" was kinda YIELDy as well.
--"We’re taking pills to get along with life… the pills are YIELD and PJ’s music. Then we create words to call our own = our analysis of YIELD." - YIH
I want to read this!!!!!
I'm gonna head to a Starbucks today and pick up the special edition, methinks.
PS - Far Behind was a classic 90's song
Nothing yet, huh?
PBM
Wishlist Foundation: http://wishlistfoundation.org
How Into the Wild is similar to YIELD
Not to make a mountain out of a molehill, but the soundtrack has a similar progression in sound to YIELD.
Setting Forth gets things going and it, like Brain of J, doesn’t have too much of a point. I do like the aah-oohs though and I surely would never skip it.
No Ceiling, just like Faithfull, is about belief. It’s about a deep meaning and a deep wisdom – a complicated question with a very simple question. It hints at what lies at the core of Into the Wild, which is the idea that we are always improving, always evolving mentally in how we conceive the world. As in Faithfull, where the conclusion is that with all the confusion and madness going on around us all we can do is to be faithful to what we know, what lies in front of us. I get the same vibe from No Ceiling: “I leave here believing/more than I had/this love has got no ceiling” describes the same process – getting the most out of what is right in front of us, setting aside the worthless clutter of bad ideas and wastes of our time.
Far Behind is my favorite song on the new one. It just sounds like a great old Who song or something and it seems like it could’ve been a YIELD session b-side. There is the theme of the road here, “a world begins where the road ends/watch me leave it all behind.” Similar vibe to No Way? In a way, but I guess it resonates more with MFC…just getting the hell out of there and starting anew on the other side.
Rise is Given to Fly’s sister song, at least to me. “Gonna rise up/turning mistakes into gold.” Clearly a song about starting over again, but it’s more than just running away. It’s about this idea of getting rid of the bad, washing away the wastes and getting to the core of what is important. I think the “find my direction magnetically” is important too. Perhaps the character in the movie uses a compass, but the line itself speaks of following a greater force that leads – whether this be intuition, fate or something else. Plus, the uke is just gorgeous here. We’ve come a long way from Soon Forget.
Long Nights made an instant connection to Wishlist with me. Long Nights seems like the character’s note to the people and place he is leaving, explaining why is he going and what he intends to find. This fits my Wishlist theory that the song is more of a list of shortcomings someone sends to the one they can never satisfy. Long Nights is the same for me because it says: this isn’t working, we can’t keep doing this. “For when I’m alone/I’ll be better off/than I was before/I’ve got this life/I’ll be around to grow/who I was before/ I cannot recall.”
Tuolumne is a strange little thing in the middle here, nice melody. It can be Pilate.
Hard Sun and DTE. The big singles here, I guess among other things. DTE is about ultimate and future doom and the big red sun can stand for that in one way. It’s a good song, but it’s too much of a chorus orgy for me. Coulda been a minute shorter or so. My theory is quickly falling apart.
Society is another good one, another cover, another chorus orgy. I do think “When you want more than you have/you think you need/when you think more than you want/your thoughts begin to bleed” resonates with the YIELD concepts of pointless consumerism and wanting turning to needing. The other point is that over-thinking is a problem too, the idea is we need to just up and go sometimes, be spontaneous, just do it. Again, having not seen the movie or read the book I’m flying blind here, but that is a major emphasis for the film. Just up and go on a whim, some sort of magnetic, forceful whim. Therefore, it does mesh with MFC somewhat.
The Wolf does seem to have a Low Light vibe in there somewhere…just light Low Light is a call out to some sort of past and buried tragedy, the Wolf has that mournful yet transcendent feel.
End of the Road doesn’t quite match to In Hiding well. A few words melt into this spacey instrumental jam (which is pretty cool, but not the monster riffage of IH) But, if we are to believe that In Hiding derives from the Bukowski notion of hiding away to regain your own sanity, to recapture it from the depravity of society…than maybe this idea of “find a way where/the sky meets the earth” melts into the Push Me Pull Me line: “where the land meets high tide.” “It’s alright/and all wrong/for me it begins/at the end of the road/we come and go.” Surely RK can shed some light on this, but the PMPM vibe just comes right out of this little snippet of a lyrical delivery on the soundtrack.
Guaranteed fits with ATY in that it is about growing beyond the constraints of the past, of things that no longer matter. It is a song for the arrival at the new destination. “I knew all the rules/but the rules did not know me/guaranteed” sound on surface like something a middle schooler might say when taken to the Principal’s office…but the idea is that we all have that awesome power of free will, to not be constrained by anything, ever. What’s to stop us from running away to the woods right now and never coming back? Pressure…hopes for a future that may not even exist…many things, but no physical chains.
How Into the Wild Differs from YIELD
Obviously, it doesn’t rock as hard, it isn’t as long. It’s not YIELD. In Hiding is not represented very well by anything here because the In Hiding idea is about recharging to go back to what sapped one in the first place. Into the Wild is about escaping permanently and forever. Low Light is missing somewhat and No Way to an extent. It doesn’t quite flow as well either, although the instrumental tracks help pull it along.
Ed wrote everything here too. YIELD has that balance of songwriters and sounds, which is important to note.
Also, the hidden track is just Guaranteed with humming. Not as delightfully original as Hummus, but still delightful nonetheless.
Why this Matters
Again, the theme of the end of the road is where it begins. YIELD seems to be about the road itself, with the cover art, the traffic sign thing, MFC: escaping while all the while intending to stop at some other destination down the line.
Into the Wild breaks off as the idea where the road itself is no good, I must escape the whole thing all by myself. It’s a much more desperate notion of escapism – one that still holds hope for the individual, but not for what the road stands for as a whole.
My initial reaction is the blame the shortcomings of the soundtrack on the film in that Ed wrote these things to fit specific notches of time and purpose for the film. YIELD was certainly more free-form.
Still, it raises the Vedderian question of escape to another level. What are we to do? Should be try to take a break and allow things to work themselves out in the future as YIELD proposes? Or shall we pack up a backpack and just go off on our own, taking what we know and hope to find what we seek at the end of the road?
YIELD clearly seems like the way to go, and again, I’ll blame this on the film. The soundtrack was still a solid effort, and one I’ll listen to often in the future. It’s not a wannabe YIELD – it asks another question entirely – but the premise is entirely predicated on this film. It just isn’t as magical as the accidental concept album we know as YIELD. It’s a forced concept album, a well-done one albeit, but a forced attempt.
I'll touch on a lot of this throughout the day. I'd like to start, though, by following up on the basic themes of the article....how it's similar, how it's different, and why it matters.
As for the similarities, I think you covered that more thoroughly than any of us could. I've often been surprised Ed hasn't made a solo album, and I think part of the reason is that he's already poured out most of his life in his songs for PJ. There just doesn't seem to be much left to give in a solo effort. But something simple that you said really resonated with me. You talked about "the Vedderian question of escape", and that really got me thinking. In many ways, I think you could argue that in addition to a poet/songwriter/whatever, you could make a case for Ed as a philosopher. Throughout PJ's catalogue Ed has constantly touched on theories of escape and, starting especially with YIELD, the contrasting philosophy of giving way. We've developed our thoughts on YIELD in a way that could fill up an entire chapter of a philosophy textbook on escape vs YIELDing. So what does this have to do with Into The Wild? Well, I see it as almost an appendix to the YIELD chapter of the Vedderian Philosophy on Life. I think Into the Wild is a stunning microcosm of the YIELD philosophy. And to me, I think this microcosm can be found frozen in time somewhere between Wishlist and MFC. Yes, it absolutely touches on songs that fall outside of this realm, but it seems especially focused on escape. It's like having the ability to freeze time, and if we were to freeze YIELD on MFC, and take a closer look inside, we would find much of Into The Wild.
So how is it different? Well, it's clearly different on a lot of different levels. specifically, it differs in form and function. You mentioned it doesn't rock as hard as YIELD, and that's certainly true, but I also don't think the music itself helps tell the story in the same way that YIELD does. In the case of YIELD, the music itself is every bit as poignant and meaningful as the words themselves, and as I've talked about in length before, a lot of that has to do with the distribution of songwriting. Here, it's solely Ed's vision, which perhaps makes it so overwhelmingly esoteric that it's harder to follow where the music is going. As for function, well, that's obvious as you pointed out....Into The Wild was written for a specific purpose and with a use in mind. YIELD came about much more naturally. Intentional vs accidental concept albums. You hit that one directly on the head.
And so why does this matter? Well, I suppose that depends on what each of us tries to get out of music. But for those of us who congregate in this thread, we tend to yearn for the meaning behind both the music and the words when we listen to albums. We try not to take things too much out of context because we yearn to not only listen to the songs, but to also digest them and process them and to take something out of it that we can make our own and apply to our lives. So to me, it's extremely important that we understand the similarities and differences of these 2 albums. And it's only natural that we would do so because as you said, Will, it's so immediately obvious how connected Into The Wild is to YIELD. I think when all is said and done, I will view Into The Wild as yet another accompanying piece to the overall chapter of YIELD (similar to the way I view No Code). You're right, this album clearly is not YIELD and we need not make more out of this than it is, but is the perfect companion to YIELD, and I can easily see myself adding it to my regimen when I listen to No Code and YIELD successively....Into The Wild might make sense as the first part. Into The Wild -> No Code -> YIELD. To me, that is the context in which all of this works and makes the most sense.
--"We’re taking pills to get along with life… the pills are YIELD and PJ’s music. Then we create words to call our own = our analysis of YIELD." - YIH
My retort is coming this evening.
It seems to me that by stressing the similarities between Yield and ITW, we are more inclined to see McCandless as someone who was moving towards something, rather than someone who wanted simply to go away from it all. This seems to be how Penn and Vedder read the Kracauer book
I find this fascinating because I think it's debatable as to whether the end result was positive or negative. I know Penn has said he views it as positive, but I'm not sure I agree. I guess perhaps we need to understand how Ed feels about this, because if he feels it was positive, then perhaps it is moving towards something. But if the end result is negative, then you could argue Into The Wild is yet another warning about escapism.
--"We’re taking pills to get along with life… the pills are YIELD and PJ’s music. Then we create words to call our own = our analysis of YIELD." - YIH
Wow... I had absolutely no doubt that Ed agrees with Penn, and still do, but it's interesting to see you are not sure. Did you watch the Charlie Rose interview? It is incredibly inspiring. I made my inferences based largely on that interview, and they fit with the record as I have listened to it. But I haven't seen the movie yet.
I have not seen said interview, so maybe you know more about this subject than I do, but I don't see anything in the scope of just the album (ignoring the book and movie, as I have neither read nor seen it) that makes me feel stronger one way or the other in terms of it being a positive or negative outcome. I think the album seems to be much more about the journey and less about the destination.
As for my own personal feelings, I know nobody feels good about him dying. But my own feelings (granted, this is coming from a place of assumption and ignorance as I haven't read the book) are that while the journey was overwhelmingly positive, the destination ultimately was not. It's great that he was able to learn so much about life and himself and to achieve that level of enlightenment is admirable, but I think the cost was too high. To me, I don't feel it's worth one's own life. But again, I want to repeat that I think my point is debatable. I can clearly see it both ways. That's just where I'm coming from on this day.
--"We’re taking pills to get along with life… the pills are YIELD and PJ’s music. Then we create words to call our own = our analysis of YIELD." - YIH
To use your words, I don't think the outcome was positive, no one does. The point is: did he have a death wish? Was he so angry and disgusted by life that he just wanted to say hell with it? Or did he want to measure himself against nature, feel at one with it, go on a beautiful adventure and come to know who he was? I think it was more the latter than the former.
EV- 08/09,10/2008.06/08,09/2009
Hmmm...I really need to watch this, read the book and listen to the soundtrack...I wish I could contribute because this conversation sounds like something we could dissect over some course of time.
PBM
Wishlist Foundation: http://wishlistfoundation.org
Yeah, I understand all that and I can see why you and anyone else would feel that way about it. It makes perfect sense. Again, though, to me, I just don't feel it was worth the ultimate outcome. I would rather keep working in my office every day for the next 40 years and miss out on the enlightenment or "oneness" with nature than to experience his quest and end up dead. But that's personal. I don't think this kid was stupid or naive for going through what he did. If it worked for him, so be it. I just would not make the same choice, that's all.
--"We’re taking pills to get along with life… the pills are YIELD and PJ’s music. Then we create words to call our own = our analysis of YIELD." - YIH
But but but... he did not set out to die. If you think he did, then you are with the camp who thinks he had a death wish (I'm not saying they are wrong, I just disagree with them).
The ultimate outcome is something that will befall us all, whether we dare nature or not. I think you have to have an irony and a freedom about your life, whether you are sitting at your desk or climbing a dangerous mountain.
I have a child, and for me that means those kind of extreme choices are off the table. Yet, listening to Penn talk about McCandless... it is more about leaving behind all the craps that weighs you down.
It's an interesting thought. I really don't know. I need to read the book before I can say any more about why he did it. But even if death wasn't his goal, is it still worth it? I don't have that answer.
--"We’re taking pills to get along with life… the pills are YIELD and PJ’s music. Then we create words to call our own = our analysis of YIELD." - YIH
I think that's an answer you can only have for your own life.
And I haven't seen the movie nor read the book, but as a college teacher I have no qualms talking out of ... odd places.
I think you're probably right, and that's probably why this is able to be discussed so passionately....it's personal.
And as a pretentious asshole, I too regularly enjoy talking out of my ass
It's just that in this case, even my anatomy doesn't know what to say about it...
--"We’re taking pills to get along with life… the pills are YIELD and PJ’s music. Then we create words to call our own = our analysis of YIELD." - YIH
This trilogy is perplexing. I am going to listen to No Code again...as it's been too long...before I give my thoughts on this proper.
However, the idea of this as a linear path is great. Into the Wild represents that initial feeling of, fuck it, I need to completely remove myself from all of this. That's the only solution.
Evolving into YIELD, which says, more or less, roll with the punches, do what you can and refresh rather than replace.
I guess my hangup at this point is my inadequacy to describe how No Code fits into this. I'm sure it will hit me (I can see Present Tense as a bridge here between the absolution of Wild and the sagacious wisdom of YIELD.) RK what was your thinking here?
Also what hit me today in Far Behind was the line: "Why contain yourself/like any other/book on the shelf?"
To me, it's all about the notion of totally escaping, of totally exercising your free will. I think there are parts of YIELD, ATY comes to mind, that hint at the cycle of change, of chapters, if you will. Our lives are books that come with lots of condensed stories with beginnings, middles and ends. One chapter bleeds into the next.
However, Far Behind and the rest of Wild is heavily based in the idea of breaking out of any containment, of any supposedly predetermined story.
Eh, that's it for now.
Will digest some No Code and get back.
Well, it's tricky, for sure. No Code isn't an OBVIOUS fit in between Into the Wild and YIELD. No Code doesn't tell a story like YIELD does for sure and like you could argue Into The Wild does. No Code is not a concept album, although there are some central themes to the album.
So why the connection? Well, it works for me like this. I view it twofold. First, it is the deconstruction that must occur in order for the reconstruction of YIELD to make sense. Second, whereas I feel like YIELD deals more with the conflict between self and external forces, I think No Code balances this by focusing much more on conflict within self.
Let me start with the first one, the deconstruction. In my own personal view of the linear story of YIELD, it starts with Brain Of J and already the protagonist is feeling held down by all kinds of conflict. But how did he/she get there? I feel like No Code (and even Into The Wild to an extent) help answer that question. YIELD makes sense without it, but the beginning is a lot clearer within the context of No Code. Whereas YIELD is centralized and focused in both words and music, No Code is a bit of a train wreck. The track sequencing is nonsensical, the message is a bit all over the place, and even the music itself is so diverse and eclectic. This builds a strange sense of conflict and when I listen to No Code, I sometimes can almost feel the anxiety building inside myself. YIELD completely counteracts this. It's the calming influence. The reconstruction.
As for the second part, the internal conflicts. Yes, No Code deals a lot with love and human interaction, but it's also strikingly introverted. We've discussed the motion that exists within YIELD, well that is quite noticeably absent on No Code. You feel like the protagonist of No Code is stuck inside a dark room left alone to his/her thoughts. Songs like Sometimes, In My Tree, Smile, Off He Goes, Habit, Red Mosquito, Present Tense, I'm Open, and Around The Bend all create a feeling of isolation and/or loneliness to me. Even songs that deal with other people or things like Off He Goes and Habit still manage to make the focus seem to be on the author's own shortcomings and failures in life.
So I've just spent 2 paragraphs contrasting YIELD and No Code, and so the question surely remains, why does it make sense when paired with YIELD? They are so different on the surface. But for me, that's precisely WHY it works. Going through the struggles of Into The Wild and No Code, and having it all answered by closing with YIELD is a wonderful musical experience. It's a roller coaster of emotion and a journey of discovery. Being broken down and then built back up.
I can see why this wouldn't neccessarily work for everyone, because we all have our own slightly different variations of what both YIELD and No Code mean to us, but within my own context, I wouldn't have it any other way. I rarely listen to YIELD without first listening to No Code. I view them much as one big album. Putting this in terms of where you were going with this whole thing (life) being one big book, I think they are 2 very different but successive chapters that are dependent on each other.
I've already tried putting Into The Wild at the beginning of my own personal trilogy, and I gotta tell you, it was stunning. It worked SO well for me. I would recommend anyone who loves YIELD to try it at least once. Into The Wild -> No Code -> YIELD. It's a unique musical journey.
--"We’re taking pills to get along with life… the pills are YIELD and PJ’s music. Then we create words to call our own = our analysis of YIELD." - YIH
We're not worthy!
Let me digest this.
--"We’re taking pills to get along with life… the pills are YIELD and PJ’s music. Then we create words to call our own = our analysis of YIELD." - YIH