Yield

glasshouse

likepilateihaveadog wrote:

Do we have this archived somewhere?


Yes, it refers to Mihkail Bulgakov's The Master and Margarita, a novel about a character referred to as The Master, writing a book about Pontius Pilate.

Pilate has a dog in the book named Banga and the dog is his only solace from the torture imposed on him by sentencing Jesus to death. So when Ed sings "like Pilate, I have a dog" he means that there's one thing he has that keeps him going, even in the face of misery and doom.

That's the short answer, at least.

dude, that is awesome! really!! i need to tune in here a bit more maybe.
deep stuff

let me just see if i have it right: there's a novel depicting a character called the master whose writing a story (within the story) about Pilate and his affairs relating Jesus and his (not Jesus's) dog????

fuckin sweet. i want to read that book

likepilateihaveadog

glasshouse wrote:

dude, that is awesome! really!! i need to tune in here a bit more maybe.
deep stuff

let me just see if i have it right: there's a novel depicting a character called the master whose writing a story (within the story) about Pilate and his affairs relating Jesus and his (not Jesus's) dog????

fuckin sweet. i want to read that book

That's the synopsis. There's actually so much going on in this book, it's amazing. Bulgakov wrote the book in the 1930s in Moscow, and was strongly opposed to the Communist government. They didn't take too kindly to Bulgakov's opposition and punished him his whole life. The Master is an autobiographical character in many ways. Bulgakov actually threw a near-finished draft of the novel in the fire fearing the authorities would come and find it and kill him. He then had to re-write the whole thing from scratch. (The Master does the same thing in the book).

So, there's a great deal of political criticism and protest in the novel as well and it helps if you know the background of Moscow in the 1930s.

In other YIELD literature, check out Daniel Quinn's books as well as Charles Bukwoski's poetry. All three were influential in the thematic foundation of YIELD.

glasshouse

thanks mate, i'll definately check that out, and maybe return to this intellectual driven thread with some not too shabby insights of my own

likepilateihaveadog

I should also add the Rolling Stones' "Sympathy for the Devil" is based on this book too.

glasshouse

the plot thickens

RockKing

likepilateihaveadog wrote:

I should also add the Rolling Stones' "Sympathy for the Devil" is based on this book too.

Seriously? Wow, I actually never knew that. I need to get around to reading the book sometime. I've been putting it off for far too long. I've wanted to read it since the first time I read your paper on it, what, a year ago?

Also, one of my favorite bands of all time, The Tea Party, have a song on their album The Interzone Mantras called "The Master and Margarita."

"So now that your faith's gone who are you going to trust?
Now that your conscience is crawling in the dust
I've been meaning to tell you sister
I've been meaning to tell you all

I'm carved from the chaos and strained by its reprise
And i've introduced myself for centuries
I've been meaning to tell you sister
About the master and margarita
But if you fuel the addiction you suckle its disease

And it drags you down
Drags you down
Please don't turn around"

Seems to focus on a bit of a different aspect than Pilate does. Although not totally.

PissBottleMan

RockKing wrote:

Seriously? Wow, I actually never knew that. I need to get around to reading the book sometime.

I concur...this all sounds fascinating.

PBM

likepilateihaveadog

I'll have to check that out, thanks. I should add Satan is a character too, and based on those lyrics, that seems to make connections on that front.

For anyone interested, the wikipedia page isn't bad.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Master_and_Margarita

Has a good list at the bottom of all the things influenced by it.

(For anyone REALLY interested, the page from Middlebury College in Vermont is fantastic: http://cr.middlebury.edu/public/russian/Bulgakov/public_html/)

Carry on.

PissBottleMan

RockKing wrote:

And it drags you down
Drags you down

Same kind of phrasing...is that from the book or a mere coincidence?

PBM

likepilateihaveadog

PissBottleMan wrote:

Same kind of phrasing...is that from the book or a mere coincidence?

PBM

There are different translations, so I guess it depends on which one you read.

The theme and feel of the book is certainly about that escape notion, in a way.
Pilate wants to escape his fate of being remembered only for this one 'evil' deed, and the characters in the Russian segments of the novel are all trying to escape and overcome the overbearing government and lack of freedom.

It seems every character faces that conflict of being dragged down by external forces and is trying to muster the internal will to keep on keepin on.

PissBottleMan

likepilateihaveadog wrote:

Pilate wants to escape his fate of being remembered only for this one 'evil' deed

Bill Buckner letting the ball go through his legs...that was an evil deed...Pilate is on a whole other level.

PBM

distantsun

meme wrote:

That's exactly the same analogy that came to my mind. We must be hanging out around the same places. I think some of their stances stifle debate, though.

i'm not sure that it stifles though. i think it does nothing. people who agree with them will continue to agree and those who don't, still won’t and don’t.

yosi1

distantsun wrote:

i'm not sure that it stifles though. i think it does nothing. people who agree with them will continue to agree and those who don't, still won’t and don’t.

I think that's what meme meant by stifle. You can't debate with them because they're too polarizing. You either agree, or you don't.

yosi1

By the way, all the info on Pilate is truly enlightening. I never had any idea what that line was about.

PissBottleMan

yosi wrote:

By the way, all the info on Pilate is truly enlightening. I never had any idea what that line was about.

You're coming around yosi...soon, the Riot Act thread will be abandoned.



PBM

yosi1

PissBottleMan wrote:

You're coming around yosi...soon, the Riot Act thread will be abandoned.



PBM

Haha. I don't think so. While my fondness for Yield has certainly grown, I still love RA and always will. I just like coming to this thread cause the conversation is always good. :cool:

meme

distantsun wrote:

i'm not sure that it stifles though. i think it does nothing. people who agree with them will continue to agree and those who don't, still won’t and don’t.

Right, as yosi said... if people who agree continue to agree and people who don't will continue not to... not much of a debate

PissBottleMan

meme wrote:

Right, as yosi said... if people who agree continue to agree and people who don't will continue not to... not much of a debate

I think there is a happy medium though...you can create art which examines the flaws and encourage intelligent communication.

Doing that, while on a stage after 3 bottles of red wine, isn't a good start.

PBM

RockKing

PissBottleMan wrote:

I think there is a happy medium though...you can create art which examines the flaws and encourage intelligent communication.

Doing that, while on a stage after 3 bottles of red wine, isn't a good start.

PBM

I think that's the whole point. The true gift of any great politicians is their ability to make their arguments without being polarizing about it. I think Ed's political rants are a complete waste. He rarely, if ever, sounds like he is speaking from the heart. It comes accross as him just rehashing the same rhetoric others have already thrown out there.

To me, Ed used to be MUCH more convincing because he appeared MUCH more genuine. Now, it feels like a cause for the sake of a cause.

PissBottleMan

RockKing wrote:

Ed used to be MUCH more convincing because he appeared MUCH more genuine.

I can get on board with that.

PBM