I'm not sure ego is the right word here. I mean, I get what you're saying, but I wouldn't call it ego. Well, maybe in Ian's case, but certainly not in Henry's. Henry is incredible self-depricating.....but he also believes that he's right. It's somewhere between ego and stubborness.
--"I'm like an opening band for the sun"
--"We’re taking pills to get along with life… the pills are YIELD and PJ’s music. Then we create words to call our own = our analysis of YIELD." - YIH
Maybe the people that were here last year remember, but I think part of this cuts to the 'escape' idea.
Is just running away a negative thing? Is that what is happening in YIELD?
Maybe the "there's still time to escape" line is getting at the fact that the character is still trapped in something, this box of fear brought on by social factors (Faithfull, DTE) and maybe can't escape at all (No Way?).
Is YIELD possibly getting at the idea, not of hope as we've imagined, but of no hope and the impossibility of change and adaptation on the individual level?
Wally made an interesting connection to Vanilla Sky...kind of hokey, but I tend to agree.
Are we asleep...is the album our wake up call from reality...or do we drift off and ignore the problems in order to create our own utopian reality.
PBM
"We paced ourselves and we didn't rush through it and we tried to be as creative as our collective minds would let us be over some course of time instead of just trying to rush through a record"
Maybe the people that were here last year remember, but I think part of this cuts to the 'escape' idea.
Is just running away a negative thing? Is that what is happening in YIELD?
Maybe the "there's still time to escape" line is getting at the fact that the character is still trapped in something, this box of fear brought on by social factors (Faithfull, DTE) and maybe can't escape at all (No Way?).
Is YIELD possibly getting at the idea, not of hope as we've imagined, but of no hope and the impossibility of change and adaptation on the individual level?
I don't know much about last year in this thread but I think that the idea of escape, throughout yield, is definitely twofold. escape is bad if you're running for the sake of running, al a MFC. I don't think that is the same kind of scape that we see in ATY though. that is an escape in terms of surrender. not a cowardly surrender though. it's more in terms of putting the past to rest. or being comfortable with the challenges of the future.
I don't know much about last year in this thread but I think that the idea of escape, throughout yield, is definitely twofold. escape is bad if you're running for the sake of running, al a MFC. I don't think that is the same kind of scape that we see in ATY though. that is an escape in terms of surrender. not a cowardly surrender though. it's more in terms of putting the past to rest. or being comfortable with the challenges of the future.
Right, and that's how I personally see it, but...
does the "there's still time to escape" allude to the fact that we have not escaped at all?
As an extension of Faithfull and No Way, maybe we're trapped in this box and we really have given up on trying to make a difference because in 2010, it's all going to fire anyway.
I guess my question is, does this hopeless reading of YIELD have any merit? Is there anything that hands-down discredits it?
I guess my question is, does this hopeless reading of YIELD have any merit? Is there anything that hands-down discredits it?
I think GTF and PMPM both discredit it quite soundly. I think YIELD points out the negative side of escaping and gives specific examples in several songs, as you've mentioned. I think they're merely saying this is what you are up against. This is what you need to beware of. I think DTE even has more positivity to it than most people realize. It's about hope disguised in turmoil. I've always said, I don't see DTE as an angry song at all, I see it as an urgent song. I don't hear Ed as much angry in that song as I do impatient.
And maybe that opens a whole different discussion. Does impatience lead to escape or YIELDing? But I think the important thing to remember about YIELD is Push Me, Pull Me. The ultimate song about giving way....letting go of the forces that are holding us back. Learning to accept the path and to take the path. This is why it's the climax of the album for me.
Finally, I think GTF is such an overwhelmingly positive and uplifting song, that I think it overrides any thought of YIELD as a whole representing any sort of impending doom. YIELD definitely shows us the doom that can exist if we don't make change and/or if we simply run from the challenges and fears that we have. But if we face these fears and challenges head-on, and proactively MAKE change, then we will find the peaceful rest that ATY alludes to. And that's the key difference, to me, between escape and YIELDing....Escape is not proactively MAKING change, but rather running away to a place, whereby the change is brought to you, while YIELDing is you actively making the change and overcoming the negative forces that are in our way.
--"I'm like an opening band for the sun"
--"We’re taking pills to get along with life… the pills are YIELD and PJ’s music. Then we create words to call our own = our analysis of YIELD." - YIH
no doubt that PMPM is the climax of the album. it is the album's core. ATY is not really an afterthought though; it's a conclusion with a last call to action. or maybe, inaction. depending on the situation.
Finally, I think GTF is such an overwhelmingly positive and uplifting song, that I think it overrides any thought of YIELD as a whole representing any sort of impending doom. YIELD definitely shows us the doom that can exist if we don't make change and/or if we simply run from the challenges and fears that we have. But if we face these fears and challenges head-on, and proactively MAKE change, then we will find the peaceful rest that ATY alludes to. And that's the key difference, to me, between escape and YIELDing....Escape is not proactively MAKING change, but rather running away to a place, whereby the change is brought to you, while YIELDing is you actively making the change and overcoming the negative forces that are in our way.
no doubt that PMPM is the climax of the album. it is the album's core. ATY is not really an afterthought though; it's a conclusion with a last call to action. or maybe, inaction. depending on the situation.
I agree with this. And that vacuum between action and inaction is what allows some people to see the perception that YIELD can be negative. Like any good conclusion, ATY is both thorough enough to include a rehash of escape and ambiguous enough to allow that eventually there could be more to the story.
--"I'm like an opening band for the sun"
--"We’re taking pills to get along with life… the pills are YIELD and PJ’s music. Then we create words to call our own = our analysis of YIELD." - YIH
"I''ve had enough, said enough, felt enough, I'm fine, still in it"
Acceptance?
Complacent?
PBM
"We paced ourselves and we didn't rush through it and we tried to be as creative as our collective minds would let us be over some course of time instead of just trying to rush through a record"
"I''ve had enough, said enough, felt enough, I'm fine, still in it"
Acceptance?
Complacent?
PBM
Honestly, I wholeheartedly view it as being postive and accepting. I can see how you might view it as complacent, but to me, that would totally contradict the verses of the song.
I had a false belief
I thought I came here to stay
We're all just visiting
All just breaking like waves
The oceans made me, but who came up with love?
Push me, pull me... push me, or pull me out
Push me, pull me, or pull me out
Push me, pull me
So if there were no angels, would there be no sin?
You better stop me before I begin
But let me say...if I behave...can you arrange
a spacious hole in the ground
Somewhere nice, make it nice
Where the land meets high tide
Push me, pull me, or pull me out
Push me, pull me
Push me, pull me, or pull me out
Like a cloud dropping rain
I'm discarding all thought
I'll dry up, leaving puddles on the ground
I'm like an opening band for the sun
Push me, pull me
Push me, pull me...pull me out
I just can't view those lyrics as being complacent. Maybe it's different for me and maybe it's just because of my experiences in life, but this song speaks to me in such a profound manner, and I view it as the complete and total embodiment of everything that YIELD means to me.
--"I'm like an opening band for the sun"
--"We’re taking pills to get along with life… the pills are YIELD and PJ’s music. Then we create words to call our own = our analysis of YIELD." - YIH
I can see it as (to borrow from Slobberbone): "Everything You Thought Was Right Was Wrong Today"
PBM
"We paced ourselves and we didn't rush through it and we tried to be as creative as our collective minds would let us be over some course of time instead of just trying to rush through a record"
"I''ve had enough, said enough, felt enough, I'm fine, still in it"
Acceptance?
Complacent?
PBM
this line really resonates with me. especially lately. I think it's about accepting your place in the world and what you have control over. and conversely, and more importantly, what you *don't* have control over.
and more importantly, what you *don't* have control over.
I love that you've been focusing on this aspect of it, because I think that's the angle of ATY in particular that we've never REALLY looked at. It clearly goes hand in hand with the rest of the themes we've discussed.
--"I'm like an opening band for the sun"
--"We’re taking pills to get along with life… the pills are YIELD and PJ’s music. Then we create words to call our own = our analysis of YIELD." - YIH
this line really resonates with me. especially lately. I think it's about accepting your place in the world and what you have control over. and conversely, and more importantly, what you *don't* have control over.
Yes.
PBM
"We paced ourselves and we didn't rush through it and we tried to be as creative as our collective minds would let us be over some course of time instead of just trying to rush through a record"
I love that you've been focusing on this aspect of it, because I think that's the angle of ATY in particular that we've never REALLY looked at. It clearly goes hand in hand with the rest of the themes we've discussed.
really? i think acknowledging and accepting the lack of influence/control we really have on the grand scheme of things is totally central to yield. it's so hard to really internalize but once you do…i imagine it's liberation at it's best. total escape. in a good way.
i think acknowledging and accepting the lack of influence/control we really have on the grand scheme of things is totally central to yield.
So, you're proactively being passive?
PBM
"We paced ourselves and we didn't rush through it and we tried to be as creative as our collective minds would let us be over some course of time instead of just trying to rush through a record"
So, there's a call to action...but since we're basically unable to do anything, we abstain.
PBM
"We paced ourselves and we didn't rush through it and we tried to be as creative as our collective minds would let us be over some course of time instead of just trying to rush through a record"
There's good times to be had if you let them/See the beauty being where you are/Appreciate the fireflies, maybe just in case you never see the stars.
That is a great lyric...enjoy what you take for granted.
I experienced this just the other day...
PBM
"We paced ourselves and we didn't rush through it and we tried to be as creative as our collective minds would let us be over some course of time instead of just trying to rush through a record"
I also have this idea about ATY I need to flesh out a bit...but here goes.
If PMPM is the end-all to the record thematically and I would agree here, especially with the sound, it's a stopping point, it's an end.
ATY, however comes in like a lullaby, like the song over the credits of a movie -an afterthought.
Now, it is the perfect way to end a record, just with the sound of it and how it builds to that awesome second riff and the nasty jam, but it just seems to me that it's an anomaly in the linear line of thinking.
It might not necessarily wrap up PMPM at all.
Hummus kind of throws a wrench in this, because if ATY is the credits theme, what the hell is Hummus?
really? i think acknowledging and accepting the lack of influence/control we really have on the grand scheme of things is totally central to yield. it's so hard to really internalize but once you do…i imagine it's liberation at it's best. total escape. in a good way.
No, that's what I'm saying. It's definitely there, but we have never discussed this issue with the terminology that you're using. It almost certainly is central to YIELD, but that doesn't mean it's something we've discussed before, because I don't think we have.
--"I'm like an opening band for the sun"
--"We’re taking pills to get along with life… the pills are YIELD and PJ’s music. Then we create words to call our own = our analysis of YIELD." - YIH
I also have this idea about ATY I need to flesh out a bit...but here goes.
If PMPM is the end-all to the record thematically and I would agree here, especially with the sound, it's a stopping point, it's an end.
ATY, however comes in like a lullaby, like the song over the credits of a movie -an afterthought.
Now, it is the perfect way to end a record, just with the sound of it and how it builds to that awesome second riff and the nasty jam, but it just seems to me that it's an anomaly in the linear line of thinking.
It might not necessarily wrap up PMPM at all.
Hummus kind of throws a wrench in this, because if ATY is the credits theme, what the hell is Hummus?
Discuss.
you know how in the naked Gun movies they have little jokes in the credits, and then Frank Drebin comes back for a last pop? Its kind of like that.
Also, I see hummus as a representation of freedom and like Jack says having a good time kind of song. its also very "earthy" sounding, although I can't describe why.
Id love to have waded in earlier but Ive been busy and so much has passed! So I make my entrance here. I concur that PMPM is the finale- its like, and Im going to get fairly esoteric here so bear with me, when form begins to break up. Lowlight and in hiding is the darkness before dawn so to speak (not in a negative way)and PMPM is the return to the non-dual, the return to unity consciousness and breaking free from the bonds of form. It doesnt sound "clean" because thats not how that sort of thing sounds. Think of it this way from another movie reference- its like when Michael J. Fox's bro and sis start disappearing in Back to the future. That, in essence is what is occurring with the album and ultimately completing the theme of transcendence, introspection and renewal. ATY is death, but not in a negative sense.
If there is a character hidden behind the songs of YIELD, ATY is playing when he is lying prone on a grassy hill after a long external and internal fight.
"We paced ourselves and we didn't rush through it and we tried to be as creative as our collective minds would let us be over some course of time instead of just trying to rush through a record"
Comments
No doubt. Imagine what it's like when he and Henry Rollins get together.
--"We’re taking pills to get along with life… the pills are YIELD and PJ’s music. Then we create words to call our own = our analysis of YIELD." - YIH
two huge egos with one even bigger neck.
I wonder what Ed and Ian talk about whenever they're in DC.
I bet Ian asks him about YIELD the whole time.
I'm not sure ego is the right word here. I mean, I get what you're saying, but I wouldn't call it ego. Well, maybe in Ian's case, but certainly not in Henry's. Henry is incredible self-depricating.....but he also believes that he's right. It's somewhere between ego and stubborness.
--"We’re taking pills to get along with life… the pills are YIELD and PJ’s music. Then we create words to call our own = our analysis of YIELD." - YIH
i am up for this.
Is just running away a negative thing? Is that what is happening in YIELD?
Maybe the "there's still time to escape" line is getting at the fact that the character is still trapped in something, this box of fear brought on by social factors (Faithfull, DTE) and maybe can't escape at all (No Way?).
Is YIELD possibly getting at the idea, not of hope as we've imagined, but of no hope and the impossibility of change and adaptation on the individual level?
Are we asleep...is the album our wake up call from reality...or do we drift off and ignore the problems in order to create our own utopian reality.
PBM
Wishlist Foundation: http://wishlistfoundation.org
I don't know much about last year in this thread but I think that the idea of escape, throughout yield, is definitely twofold. escape is bad if you're running for the sake of running, al a MFC. I don't think that is the same kind of scape that we see in ATY though. that is an escape in terms of surrender. not a cowardly surrender though. it's more in terms of putting the past to rest. or being comfortable with the challenges of the future.
does the "there's still time to escape" allude to the fact that we have not escaped at all?
As an extension of Faithfull and No Way, maybe we're trapped in this box and we really have given up on trying to make a difference because in 2010, it's all going to fire anyway.
I guess my question is, does this hopeless reading of YIELD have any merit? Is there anything that hands-down discredits it?
I think GTF and PMPM both discredit it quite soundly. I think YIELD points out the negative side of escaping and gives specific examples in several songs, as you've mentioned. I think they're merely saying this is what you are up against. This is what you need to beware of. I think DTE even has more positivity to it than most people realize. It's about hope disguised in turmoil. I've always said, I don't see DTE as an angry song at all, I see it as an urgent song. I don't hear Ed as much angry in that song as I do impatient.
And maybe that opens a whole different discussion. Does impatience lead to escape or YIELDing? But I think the important thing to remember about YIELD is Push Me, Pull Me. The ultimate song about giving way....letting go of the forces that are holding us back. Learning to accept the path and to take the path. This is why it's the climax of the album for me.
Finally, I think GTF is such an overwhelmingly positive and uplifting song, that I think it overrides any thought of YIELD as a whole representing any sort of impending doom. YIELD definitely shows us the doom that can exist if we don't make change and/or if we simply run from the challenges and fears that we have. But if we face these fears and challenges head-on, and proactively MAKE change, then we will find the peaceful rest that ATY alludes to. And that's the key difference, to me, between escape and YIELDing....Escape is not proactively MAKING change, but rather running away to a place, whereby the change is brought to you, while YIELDing is you actively making the change and overcoming the negative forces that are in our way.
--"We’re taking pills to get along with life… the pills are YIELD and PJ’s music. Then we create words to call our own = our analysis of YIELD." - YIH
total fucking bingo.
I agree with this. And that vacuum between action and inaction is what allows some people to see the perception that YIELD can be negative. Like any good conclusion, ATY is both thorough enough to include a rehash of escape and ambiguous enough to allow that eventually there could be more to the story.
--"We’re taking pills to get along with life… the pills are YIELD and PJ’s music. Then we create words to call our own = our analysis of YIELD." - YIH
Acceptance?
Complacent?
PBM
Wishlist Foundation: http://wishlistfoundation.org
Honestly, I wholeheartedly view it as being postive and accepting. I can see how you might view it as complacent, but to me, that would totally contradict the verses of the song.
I had a false belief
I thought I came here to stay
We're all just visiting
All just breaking like waves
The oceans made me, but who came up with love?
Push me, pull me... push me, or pull me out
Push me, pull me, or pull me out
Push me, pull me
So if there were no angels, would there be no sin?
You better stop me before I begin
But let me say...if I behave...can you arrange
a spacious hole in the ground
Somewhere nice, make it nice
Where the land meets high tide
Push me, pull me, or pull me out
Push me, pull me
Push me, pull me, or pull me out
Like a cloud dropping rain
I'm discarding all thought
I'll dry up, leaving puddles on the ground
I'm like an opening band for the sun
Push me, pull me
Push me, pull me...pull me out
I just can't view those lyrics as being complacent. Maybe it's different for me and maybe it's just because of my experiences in life, but this song speaks to me in such a profound manner, and I view it as the complete and total embodiment of everything that YIELD means to me.
--"We’re taking pills to get along with life… the pills are YIELD and PJ’s music. Then we create words to call our own = our analysis of YIELD." - YIH
PBM
Wishlist Foundation: http://wishlistfoundation.org
this line really resonates with me. especially lately. I think it's about accepting your place in the world and what you have control over. and conversely, and more importantly, what you *don't* have control over.
I love that you've been focusing on this aspect of it, because I think that's the angle of ATY in particular that we've never REALLY looked at. It clearly goes hand in hand with the rest of the themes we've discussed.
--"We’re taking pills to get along with life… the pills are YIELD and PJ’s music. Then we create words to call our own = our analysis of YIELD." - YIH
Yes.
PBM
Wishlist Foundation: http://wishlistfoundation.org
really? i think acknowledging and accepting the lack of influence/control we really have on the grand scheme of things is totally central to yield. it's so hard to really internalize but once you do…i imagine it's liberation at it's best. total escape. in a good way.
So, you're proactively being passive?
PBM
Wishlist Foundation: http://wishlistfoundation.org
actually, exactly.
it goes against the human condition.
really hard to do.
There's good times to be had if you let them/See the beauty being where you are/Appreciate the fireflies, maybe just in case you never see the stars.
Similar sentiments about letting go and whathaveyou here.
So, there's a call to action...but since we're basically unable to do anything, we abstain.
PBM
Wishlist Foundation: http://wishlistfoundation.org
That is a great lyric...enjoy what you take for granted.
I experienced this just the other day...
PBM
Wishlist Foundation: http://wishlistfoundation.org
If PMPM is the end-all to the record thematically and I would agree here, especially with the sound, it's a stopping point, it's an end.
ATY, however comes in like a lullaby, like the song over the credits of a movie -an afterthought.
Now, it is the perfect way to end a record, just with the sound of it and how it builds to that awesome second riff and the nasty jam, but it just seems to me that it's an anomaly in the linear line of thinking.
It might not necessarily wrap up PMPM at all.
Hummus kind of throws a wrench in this, because if ATY is the credits theme, what the hell is Hummus?
Discuss.
No, that's what I'm saying. It's definitely there, but we have never discussed this issue with the terminology that you're using. It almost certainly is central to YIELD, but that doesn't mean it's something we've discussed before, because I don't think we have.
--"We’re taking pills to get along with life… the pills are YIELD and PJ’s music. Then we create words to call our own = our analysis of YIELD." - YIH
you know how in the naked Gun movies they have little jokes in the credits, and then Frank Drebin comes back for a last pop? Its kind of like that.
Also, I see hummus as a representation of freedom and like Jack says having a good time kind of song. its also very "earthy" sounding, although I can't describe why.
Id love to have waded in earlier but Ive been busy and so much has passed! So I make my entrance here. I concur that PMPM is the finale- its like, and Im going to get fairly esoteric here so bear with me, when form begins to break up. Lowlight and in hiding is the darkness before dawn so to speak (not in a negative way)and PMPM is the return to the non-dual, the return to unity consciousness and breaking free from the bonds of form. It doesnt sound "clean" because thats not how that sort of thing sounds. Think of it this way from another movie reference- its like when Michael J. Fox's bro and sis start disappearing in Back to the future. That, in essence is what is occurring with the album and ultimately completing the theme of transcendence, introspection and renewal. ATY is death, but not in a negative sense.
If there is a character hidden behind the songs of YIELD, ATY is playing when he is lying prone on a grassy hill after a long external and internal fight.
Transcending the mind, body and soul.
I like that.
PBM
Wishlist Foundation: http://wishlistfoundation.org