I think even if Wilson had a go pro on his chest and that video evidence corroborated every word Wilson said, you guys will still want to see Wilson strung out. Facts and evidence don't mean shit here because apparently they are open to interpretation.
I think even if Wilson had a go pro on his chest and that video evidence corroborated every word Wilson said, you guys will still want to see Wilson strung out. Facts and evidence don't mean shit here because apparently they are open to interpretation.
Here's a definition for the term 'fact': "a thing that is indisputably the case". Guess what? What happened in the cop's words are not indisputably the case: hence they are not facts.
I think you're completely incorrect in assuming that video evidence corroborating his story would be seen as useless. This doesn't have to do with who anyone wants to see thrown in jail, it has to do with proper form in gathering evidence. Proper form involves impartial technology utilized to gather evidence when applicable, instead of relying on people's retelling, when it's a known fact that in a high-stakes situation, people have a tendency to do or say what they feel is best for themselves.
Post edited by benjs on
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
I was just wondering but who the fuck runs AT someone who's shooting AT THEM? Isn't that what's being said? That Wilson shot at brown and brown charged at him while he was being shot? That's just crazy.
Isn't it possible to be pissed off at both? And actually, I'm not pissed at "poor black folks" or "rich whites on WS"...I'm pissed at anyone who takes what isn't theirs, regardless of method.
I think even if Wilson had a go pro on his chest and that video evidence corroborated every word Wilson said, you guys will still want to see Wilson strung out. Facts and evidence don't mean shit here because apparently they are open to interpretation.
I think even if Wilson had a go pro on his chest and that video evidence corroborated every word Wilson said, you guys will still want to see Wilson strung out. Facts and evidence don't mean shit here because apparently they are open to interpretation.
On this great day for Americans to celebrate With friends and family I would like to also say thank you to all the First Responders for keeping us Safe. Keep up the thankless good work and never doubt yourself or your training when you are in fear for your life, your partners life, or a
I was just wondering but who the fuck runs AT someone who's shooting AT THEM? Isn't that what's being said? That Wilson shot at brown and brown charged at him while he was being shot? That's just crazy.
Ummm, have you ever spent any significant time in a "underprivileged" area before? Have you ever fought for your life or someone else's before? If you answerd yes to those questions then you have your answer.
Am I doing better with my terminology guys by not using Ghetto which I am learning now is a racist word?
To answer the righteous, it should not be too hard to determine what I do for a living...I mean come on guys. I make comments after reading posts that usually vilify the Police and Military.
Hope all are having a delicious Thanksgiving dinner with your families. I just had mine at A Chinnese carry out and about to make a face to face notification that someone's child was killed by a drunk driver out of state early this mourning. Oh yah, he is Afican American just like my partner. Btw, if I called my partner African American he would bitch slap me.
Have a nice day and all drive safe...tons of drunks out already
I think even if Wilson had a go pro on his chest and that video evidence corroborated every word Wilson said, you guys will still want to see Wilson strung out. Facts and evidence don't mean shit here because apparently they are open to interpretation.
Thank you for posting this... that article is just as relevant to the topic of proper evidence-gathering protocol as the Michael Brown shooting, and I'm embarrassed that I didn't know that it happened. Note that the officer was wearing a body camera - it'll be interesting to see how that changes the investigation.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
On this great day for Americans to celebrate With friends and family I would like to also say thank you to all the First Responders for keeping us Safe. Keep up the thankless good work and never doubt yourself or your training when you are in fear for your life, your partners life, or a
I was just wondering but who the fuck runs AT someone who's shooting AT THEM? Isn't that what's being said? That Wilson shot at brown and brown charged at him while he was being shot? That's just crazy.
Ummm, have you ever spent any significant time in a "underprivileged" area before? Have you ever fought for your life or someone else's before? If you answerd yes to those questions then you have your answer.
Am I doing better with my terminology guys by not using Ghetto which I am learning now is a racist word?
To answer the righteous, it should not be too hard to determine what I do for a living...I mean come on guys. I make comments after reading posts that usually vilify the Police and Military.
Hope all are having a delicious Thanksgiving dinner with your families. I just had mine at A Chinnese carry out and about to make a face to face notification that someone's child was killed by a drunk driver out of state early this mourning. Oh yah, he is Afican American just like my partner. Btw, if I called my partner African American he would bitch slap me.
Have a nice day and all drive safe...tons of drunks out already
If you called your partner African American as a casual addendum to wrong-doing like you had done here, he'd have been right to.
But that being said, I echo your sentiments in wishing all of my American friends and co-PJ-addicts a safe and healthy Thanksgiving.
On another note, part of one of your sentences got to me: "never doubt yourself or your training". Your full sentence mentioned to never doubt yourself or your training when you are in fear of your or your partner's life, and in those cases, I'd say that it would be wrong to let your doubt dictate your decision if it's counter to your training.
That being said, I'd entirely disagree with "never doubt": in these situations, your doubt is likely rising as a byproduct of doing something you innately feel is of a questionable ethical code. I'd say remember your doubt, act according to your training at the time, and mention your doubt to a superior at a later time. The training of a police or military officer is no more or less absolute than the Bible or Qur'an, and just like the Bible or Qur'an, following it blindly with no concern for the moral/ethical ramifications does not excuse the absence of thought process leading to avoidable negative byproducts. If you bring up your issue, and your superior can't justify why something your training instructed you to do was in fact the right thing to do, he or she owes it to you to seek an answer. If he or she can't give you a good answer, he or she should kindly refrain from asking you to act in that way.
Ignorance isn't bliss, it's just laziness from seeking truth in disguise.
Post edited by benjs on
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Trayvon Martin was a senseless tragedy, that poor kid did nothing wrong.
This is not a senseless tragedy.
Michael Brown was a criminal who attacked a cop. These facts are indisputable. As someone said earlier in the thread, if he moved to the sidewalk, and let Wilson move along, he would probably be at home getting ready for Thanksgiving w/ his family. Instead he decided to attack a cop. Why do so many Brown supporters ignore this?
He attacked a cop.
Are there racist cops in this country? Yes. Is police brutality an issue in this country? Yes. Do police lie? Yes. In this case however, there seems to be more than ample evidence that Brown was the aggressor. How can you gloss over that blatant fact?
No one is refuting that this cop was attacked by a kid who had 90lbs on him. A lot of people are questioning Wilson's toughness & injuries....... The kid had 90 f'ing pounds on him and was trying to get his gun. I don't know how you can look at those facts and say his life wasn't in danger.
Should he have waited for Brown to take his gun before he decided his life was in danger?
I'm no police apologist, I know there are a $hit-ton of crooked cops out there, (Wilson may very well be one) but I don't think he was in the wrong here.
You may not have to respect cops (it's clear many of you don't) but you sure as fuck can't go around assaulting them & trying to take their guns. That's not likely to have a good outcome.
How is michael brown a criminal?
He robbed a convenient store. He attacked a cop. This is criminal behavior.
Criminal behaviour doesn't necessarily equate to being a criminal.... and lets not forget your criminal is dead..... and criminality is legal rhetoric so....
Yes, he's dead because he attacked a cop & tried to take his gun. No one is refuting these aspects of the case.
Attacking cops & trying to take their guns is not a recipe for a long & healthy life. I don't know what's so hard to understand.
I am still not convinced he was going for the cops gun. Can you show me the evidence that proves he was?
Digin,you are too smart to still be in denial.The big picture of dis enfranchisement And racial stereotyping is a worthy discussion.But this case and the nonsense that followed is pretty straight forward and backed up by fact and evidence.FYI the floor pops in the Tahoe,browns blood leading away and the first wound to browns hand all answer the question for you.Happy Gobble,Gobble
Oh rr, you give me too much credit, I might be dumber than you think. Happy American Thanksgiving.
I always like to go with benefit of the doubt.Happy Tday as well if it applies.
Isn't it possible to be pissed off at both? And actually, I'm not pissed at "poor black folks" or "rich whites on WS"...I'm pissed at anyone who takes what isn't theirs, regardless of method.
I think even if Wilson had a go pro on his chest and that video evidence corroborated every word Wilson said, you guys will still want to see Wilson strung out. Facts and evidence don't mean shit here because apparently they are open to interpretation.
I don't see how this is relevant to what I said, or what lastexit posted. If you want to start a thread about that event you a free to do so and I will be happy to talk about it.
I think even if Wilson had a go pro on his chest and that video evidence corroborated every word Wilson said, you guys will still want to see Wilson strung out. Facts and evidence don't mean shit here because apparently they are open to interpretation.
I don't see how this is relevant to what I said, or what lastexit posted. If you want to start a thread about that event you a free to do so and I will be happy to talk about it.
i know you don't ... what i posted doesn't fit the agenda of the majority.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
On this great day for Americans to celebrate With friends and family I would like to also say thank you to all the First Responders for keeping us Safe. Keep up the thankless good work and never doubt yourself or your training when you are in fear for your life, your partners life, or a citizens life. Always Always Always remember it's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
What variety of first responder are you?
Why do you ask??? So you can ridicule and educate me even more about my profession you knowing squat about It?? No thanks...
I asked because I was curious. Those in the brotherhood of cop/fireman/medic stick up for each other in a sometimes questionable way, so it wasn't obvious which variety you belong to. Believe it or not, I wanted to thank you for your service to your community, particularly if you are an EMT/paramedic or fireman. If you are a cop, I am slightly concerned for the citizens you watch over but at the end of the day I assume that your not truly racist, and you do your best to help the people who need help. I know many people who talk in the same blustery, run their mouth kind of way that seems racist that you have been using... Most of them aren't true racists that hate, they just don't care for the culture of the lowest class of black people, and give it undue attention over the lowest class of white people, which have an equally unsavory culture. Most of them don't carry guns and wear a badge either though. You say it is better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. I say remember that when the 12 are judging the 6 are still carrying, and they may be carrying a true innocent.
I think even if Wilson had a go pro on his chest and that video evidence corroborated every word Wilson said, you guys will still want to see Wilson strung out. Facts and evidence don't mean shit here because apparently they are open to interpretation.
I don't see how this is relevant to what I said, or what lastexit posted. If you want to start a thread about that event you a free to do so and I will be happy to talk about it.
i know you don't ... what i posted doesn't fit the agenda of the majority.
Am I the only one that is just tired of this thread.I feel like we are going in circles.Ehhh maybe a little break from this one as it's been all everything in the media.
I think even if Wilson had a go pro on his chest and that video evidence corroborated every word Wilson said, you guys will still want to see Wilson strung out. Facts and evidence don't mean shit here because apparently they are open to interpretation.
I don't see how this is relevant to what I said, or what lastexit posted. If you want to start a thread about that event you a free to do so and I will be happy to talk about it.
i know you don't ... what i posted doesn't fit the agenda of the majority.
I really don't know what point you're trying to get across. Honestly, not a clue.
I think even if Wilson had a go pro on his chest and that video evidence corroborated every word Wilson said, you guys will still want to see Wilson strung out. Facts and evidence don't mean shit here because apparently they are open to interpretation.
I don't see how this is relevant to what I said, or what lastexit posted. If you want to start a thread about that event you a free to do so and I will be happy to talk about it.
i know you don't ... what i posted doesn't fit the agenda of the majority.
I really don't know what point you're trying to get across. Honestly, not a clue.
lukin2006 can feel free to correct me, but my interpretation of his words is that, in his opinion, we here on this board are going to unequivocally press forward with the notion that this was a racially-fuelled homicide, as opposed to a legitimate presentation of self-defence against an aggressive assailant. That being said, I think lukin2006 is wrong about many of us here if that is in fact what he believes about our commitment to an opinion here.
I'd like to believe that there are many here among us who are disturbed by a lack of consistent evidence on this case - and only with consistency can evidence be considered even remotely factual. Our justice system in North America is predicated on the concept of innocent until proven guilty, and regrettably, without accountability baked into a police officer's job (through body cameras or other impartial surveillance, partners so that they can be each others' consciences, etc.), it would not be fair with insufficient evidence to lay a guilty verdict down for Wilson.
And lukin2006 - since the other police officer was wearing a body camera that was active, and since they are actively investigating valid and impartial evidence that camera enabled them to gather, maybe that's why the press has been so quiet on that topic.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
I think even if Wilson had a go pro on his chest and that video evidence corroborated every word Wilson said, you guys will still want to see Wilson strung out. Facts and evidence don't mean shit here because apparently they are open to interpretation.
I don't see how this is relevant to what I said, or what lastexit posted. If you want to start a thread about that event you a free to do so and I will be happy to talk about it.
i know you don't ... what i posted doesn't fit the agenda of the majority.
I really don't know what point you're trying to get across. Honestly, not a clue.
lukin2006 can feel free to correct me, but my interpretation of his words is that, in his opinion, we here on this board are going to unequivocally press forward with the notion that this was a racially-fuelled homicide, as opposed to a legitimate presentation of self-defence against an aggressive assailant. That being said, I think lukin2006 is wrong about many of us here if that is in fact what he believes about our commitment to an opinion here.
I'd like to believe that there are many here among us who are disturbed by a lack of consistent evidence on this case - and only with consistency can evidence be considered even remotely factual. Our justice system in North America is predicated on the concept of innocent until proven guilty, and regrettably, without accountability baked into a police officer's job (through body cameras or other impartial surveillance, partners so that they can be each others' consciences, etc.), it would not be fair with insufficient evidence to lay a guilty verdict down for Wilson.
And lukin2006 - since the other police officer was wearing a body camera that was active, and since they are actively investigating valid and impartial evidence that camera enabled them to gather, maybe that's why the press has been so quiet on that topic.
You are correct. Not the agenda of everyone, but many. The best educated guess I can give is if the Brown fellow had just followed the officers orders he's completely fine today. That should be the message and the agenda of people ... when the police ask you to stop, put your hands where they can see them, make no aggressive moves ... answer there questions or don't but if they feel threatened the law will give them the benefit of the doubt more time than not if the situation goes bad. I don't understand why that is so hard for people, most cops are good people performing a stressful job.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I don't think I can add any more to this thread. At this point, its more arguing than debating. I respect most of your opinions even though I disagree with them. Have a safe holiday everyone.
On this great day for Americans to celebrate With friends and family I would like to also say thank you to all the First Responders for keeping us Safe. Keep up the thankless good work and never doubt yourself or your training when you are in fear for your life, your partners life, or a citizens life. Always Always Always remember it's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
What variety of first responder are you?
Why do you ask??? So you can ridicule and educate me even more about my profession you knowing squat about It?? No thanks...
I asked because I was curious. Those in the brotherhood of cop/fireman/medic stick up for each other in a sometimes questionable way, so it wasn't obvious which variety you belong to. Believe it or not, I wanted to thank you for your service to your community, particularly if you are an EMT/paramedic or fireman. If you are a cop, I am slightly concerned for the citizens you watch over but at the end of the day I assume that your not truly racist, and you do your best to help the people who need help. I know many people who talk in the same blustery, run their mouth kind of way that seems racist that you have been using... Most of them aren't true racists that hate, they just don't care for the culture of the lowest class of black people, and give it undue attention over the lowest class of white people, which have an equally unsavory culture. Most of them don't carry guns and wear a badge either though. You say it is better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. I say remember that when the 12 are judging the 6 are still carrying, and they may be carrying a true innocent.
Thanks rgambs, I am totally new to this forum stuff and I guess I need to be more delicate with expressing myself . I choose to joke about the stuff I am exposed to day in and day out cause its a lot easier than crying. I luv my job and have been a part of some incredible things over my years of service . I have also buried a partner, had 2 different babies die in my arms, and been around countless dead bodies and mutilated people over those years. So needless to say some of the constant anti-police rhetoric i have read on here the past couple of weeks has been disappointing. Especially from people that appear to never leave the house. But hey, no fucking worries…I can handle it. I have always said to my pals that Ed Mueller is the only liberal bone left in my body…He always gets a kick out of that when I get a chance to hang with him.
Have a great rest of your weekend.. and guess what I get to do again tomorrow?? Work a protest with some pimple faced college kid's yelling at the top of their lungs 6 inches from my face how I am a racist baby killer who spends his free time at Klan meeting…. fun stuff… But hey, its a Free country…and boy is it ever.
Comments
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/aug/25/critics-see-racial-double-standard-in-coverage-of-/?page=all
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I think you're completely incorrect in assuming that video evidence corroborating his story would be seen as useless. This doesn't have to do with who anyone wants to see thrown in jail, it has to do with proper form in gathering evidence. Proper form involves impartial technology utilized to gather evidence when applicable, instead of relying on people's retelling, when it's a known fact that in a high-stakes situation, people have a tendency to do or say what they feel is best for themselves.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
But that being said, I echo your sentiments in wishing all of my American friends and co-PJ-addicts a safe and healthy Thanksgiving.
On another note, part of one of your sentences got to me: "never doubt yourself or your training". Your full sentence mentioned to never doubt yourself or your training when you are in fear of your or your partner's life, and in those cases, I'd say that it would be wrong to let your doubt dictate your decision if it's counter to your training.
That being said, I'd entirely disagree with "never doubt": in these situations, your doubt is likely rising as a byproduct of doing something you innately feel is of a questionable ethical code. I'd say remember your doubt, act according to your training at the time, and mention your doubt to a superior at a later time. The training of a police or military officer is no more or less absolute than the Bible or Qur'an, and just like the Bible or Qur'an, following it blindly with no concern for the moral/ethical ramifications does not excuse the absence of thought process leading to avoidable negative byproducts. If you bring up your issue, and your superior can't justify why something your training instructed you to do was in fact the right thing to do, he or she owes it to you to seek an answer. If he or she can't give you a good answer, he or she should kindly refrain from asking you to act in that way.
Ignorance isn't bliss, it's just laziness from seeking truth in disguise.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Al Sharpton is a major problem, I can't understand how he has any credibility, or how people can see him as anything but self serving.
Edit-you're one of the few in Florida who have comprehensive skills. I hear black diamond is smart to. B-)
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
You say it is better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. I say remember that when the 12 are judging the 6 are still carrying, and they may be carrying a true innocent.
I'd like to believe that there are many here among us who are disturbed by a lack of consistent evidence on this case - and only with consistency can evidence be considered even remotely factual. Our justice system in North America is predicated on the concept of innocent until proven guilty, and regrettably, without accountability baked into a police officer's job (through body cameras or other impartial surveillance, partners so that they can be each others' consciences, etc.), it would not be fair with insufficient evidence to lay a guilty verdict down for Wilson.
And lukin2006 - since the other police officer was wearing a body camera that was active, and since they are actively investigating valid and impartial evidence that camera enabled them to gather, maybe that's why the press has been so quiet on that topic.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Have a great rest of your weekend.. and guess what I get to do again tomorrow?? Work a protest with some pimple faced college kid's yelling at the top of their lungs 6 inches from my face how I am a racist baby killer who spends his free time at Klan meeting…. fun stuff… But hey, its a Free country…and boy is it ever.