cops need to be video recorded as they go about their jobs, and that goes for everyone's protection, the cop included. This solves almost every problem with police brutality and the he said she said that follows. Again, they can afford armored vehicles and military weapons but not surveillance?? I think that any officer who kills an unarmed citizen should be removed from "street duty"...not based on the assumption that they have done "something wrong" but based on the psychological damage that follows..2 psych evals from industry buddies doesnt provide much confidence. Case in point: Canton, OH..an officer caught on cruiser cam pulls gun on non-aggressive concealed carrier and says (paraphrase) "i should fucking shoot you in the head". Man sues department, cop keeps his job. The reason?? The cop suffered traumatic experiences on the job that led to his behavior. Somehow, he is psychologically cleared to brandish a firearm during the exact same time as he successfully defends himself using pyschological trauma. Make sense? Of course not, but thats what happens with any industry trusted to self-regulate, it is a completely moronic idea at its core.
I posted this in the police abuse thread and it is relevant here also.
NYPD urged to step up body-worn camera pilot after chokehold death Amid accusations of excessive force and increasing civilian video of police activity, New York officers may wear cameras while on duty
The most cited study of the effects of body-worn cameras on policing is Cambridge University’s examination of the police department in Rialto, California. After cameras were introduced in February 2012, officers’ use of force dropped 59%, and complaints against officers plummeted by 88%.
Digin,Rgambs Your both very on point with the cameras.It is that easy.None of this is happening if video footage could set the record straight.I think this should be mandatory .
Unfortunately police unions have for the most part been fighting camera use throughout the country. It would just solve so much bullshit.... Cops would be held accountable for bad behavior, and for the cop and the department's benefit, bullshit complaints would be basically eliminated.
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
Yay, I see the racist is out in force since I last checked in.
Why is this Rascist?I can't speak for others,but I hate criminals of all colors.And in THIS case I think the kid was a thug not an angel and his actions led to his demise.No color needed
Travon was way more innocent then this clown was.
Not you.
Although while you say this specific cop doesn't have a history of race issues, it does sound like the entire police force does, in general.
Maybe you should also give the investigators a call since you know so much about how it went down.
These areas are powder kegs of emotion.IMO its more about economics and the frustration of being trapped within this enviorment.Race just plays as an easy way to vent this built up angst as a scapegoat for the real issues .
How the hell do you know all this?
Agree with most of what RR wrote. Think it's pretty universally accepted.
A lot of it is, until you get to this part: "Are freedoms and rights being suppressed ? no.Are random people being singled out based on color? No"
Truth is, we don't know that the answers are "no". If you can't walk down the street without getting followed and questioned, or you get beaten by an over zealous cop, I would imagine that you would feel like your rights are being suppressed. And the arrest stats seem to show that black people are being singled out.
I'm not sure of the legal definition of discrimination, maybe these citizens aren't being denied jobs or education or housing based on their skin color, but if you feel like you are being harrassed and not given a fair shake, because you are a certain color, that has to be some sort of discrimination, right?
Sort of like sexual harassment.., it's basically harassment if the victim feels harassed. It's obvious that these people feel harassed based on their skin color.
Yeah had issues with those lines as well. But in end if all were part of the bounty would be better.
Blackredyellow, Lets not forget he was hassled because he was walking down the middle of the fucking road,being a belligerent cocky asshole to the cop while holding a handful of stolen goods which he just strong armed robbed from a hard working fellow member of his community.So random targeting based on color holds zero weight here.Stick with facts
Exactly stick with the facts. None of what you wrote here are facts. They maybe true but we don't know that yet.
Kid on film robbing store=fact Walking in road witnessed by everyone=fact Mouthing off to cop witnessed by many=fact Had cigars on him=fact Only thing that is conjecture is he wasn't singled out.
Are these the same dozens of witnesses you referenced hearing about on CNN? I've heard other witnesses say different, but I'm not claiming that what they have said is fact.
As far as the robbery goes, we still don't know the facts surrounding that. Only what the police have stated, which as has been shown before, they are not above reproach. I have not yet heard a
Herein lies the problem: you have this backwards. The cops do not have the burden of proving Wilson acted appropriately- unless he is charged and to his defence. The current investigation will try to determine whether excessive force was used and in the event this is established... it is up to the people to demonstrate such by proving it.
This forum consistently demands that people enjoy the rights afforded to them by law. Hell, half the damn community insisted we treat the Boston bombers with dignity and fairness- citing they were innocent until proven guilty. Yet... here... a cop kills a 'gentle giant' in a close quarter confrontation and some of the same people are demanding the cop's head on a platter before due process.
And, without video evidence... it might come down to word vs. word. If this is the case, who are you inclined to believe?
I have no problem with what you are saying here. I have a problem with people claiming things as fact when they have not been proven as such yet.
I think the cop should have his due process. I may think the process is probably rigged in his favour given that the police generally investigate each other in these matters, friends investigating friends, but that is an issue for another thread.
I can only assume that they will take into account all the eye witnesses at the scene and see if they match the forensic evidence, this includes the officer in question. I do not take a cops statement with any more validity than a witnesses statement, especially when the cop is involved in said incident.
I agree that an outside agency should be the ones to investigate this incident.
I agree that the statement by the involved officer is subject to question.
I disagree with the broad based assertion that a police officer's statement is on par with that of any average joe on the street. While there certainly have been examples of deceit in police testimony (as there have been in any profession), I give them more credit and respect than that.
Can you try again but keeping the quotations as per their original integrity?
you folks have sales receipts from the ferguson, missouri police department showing they flat out purchase tanks? how about the national guard donating their old equipment or putting older equipment up for auction? how about the military having auctions geting rid of their old ass shit for cheap? i would be very surprised if the ferguson, missouri police department buys high dollar tanks or cheap ass tanks.
also this isn't quite a tank but i'm still looking MRAP (Mine-Resistant Ambush Protected) vehicle
They don't have a tank, no police force in the area does. It's just lazy journalism calling MRAPs and armored personnel carries "tanks".
But yeah, they got a lot of the stuff free from the military.
As far as cameras go, if they could eliminate one big lawsuit settlement for police brutality, you'd think that would pay for all the cameras they could ever need.
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
anyone want a heavy armored vehicle or a fucking mcdonald's happy meal toy to throw at bad guys? pepper spray? comedy gold to some folks. i remember reading the other week ago - pepper spray or taser works. yep... not really. nor does a gun shot to the abdomen work with some mad dudes
cops need to be video recorded as they go about their jobs, and that goes for everyone's protection, the cop included. This solves almost every problem with police brutality and the he said she said that follows. Again, they can afford armored vehicles and military weapons but not surveillance?? I think that any officer who kills an unarmed citizen should be removed from "street duty"...not based on the assumption that they have done "something wrong" but based on the psychological damage that follows..2 psych evals from industry buddies doesnt provide much confidence. Case in point: Canton, OH..an officer caught on cruiser cam pulls gun on non-aggressive concealed carrier and says (paraphrase) "i should fucking shoot you in the head". Man sues department, cop keeps his job. The reason?? The cop suffered traumatic experiences on the job that led to his behavior. Somehow, he is psychologically cleared to brandish a firearm during the exact same time as he successfully defends himself using pyschological trauma. Make sense? Of course not, but thats what happens with any industry trusted to self-regulate, it is a completely moronic idea at its core.
I posted this in the police abuse thread and it is relevant here also.
NYPD urged to step up body-worn camera pilot after chokehold death Amid accusations of excessive force and increasing civilian video of police activity, New York officers may wear cameras while on duty
The most cited study of the effects of body-worn cameras on policing is Cambridge University’s examination of the police department in Rialto, California. After cameras were introduced in February 2012, officers’ use of force dropped 59%, and complaints against officers plummeted by 88%.
I'm not saying he didn't get injured but there are videos of the aftermath and he doesn't appear to be nursing wounds or having anyone look at his wounds.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
I'm not saying he didn't get injured but there are videos of the aftermath and he doesn't appear to be nursing wounds or having anyone look at his wounds.
It says he has a fractured orbital bone. Exactly how many broken bones in a person's skull is required before a cop can assess his assailant as a threat to his life?
I'm not saying he didn't get injured but there are videos of the aftermath and he doesn't appear to be nursing wounds or having anyone look at his wounds.
Im having a hard time believeing a cop who is said to have no issues with violence during his time on duty could have done this without provication and if he did it will be time to pay up and it's simple as that.
I'm not saying he didn't get injured but there are videos of the aftermath and he doesn't appear to be nursing wounds or having anyone look at his wounds.
Im having a hard time believeing a cop who is said to have no issues with violence during his time on duty could have done this without provication and if he did it will be time to pay up and it's simple as that.
Godfather.
You seem to get your information from Faux News. We don't know his background. That he has "no issues" just means that Ferguson had no means to track issues prior to the last few years.
Schottel got another unpleasant surprise when he sought the use-of-force history of the officers involved. He learned that before a new chief took over in 2010 the department had a surprising protocol for non-fatal use-of-force reports.
“The officer himself could complete it and give it to the supervisor for his approval,” the prior chief, Thomas Moonier, testified in a deposition. “I would read it. It would be placed in my out basket, and my secretary would probably take it and put it with the case file.”
No copy was made for the officer’s personnel file.
Post edited by Gern Blansten on
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
I'm not saying he didn't get injured but there are videos of the aftermath and he doesn't appear to be nursing wounds or having anyone look at his wounds.
It says he has a fractured orbital bone. Exactly how many broken bones in a person's skull is required before a cop can assess his assailant as a threat to his life?
Let alone the grab for his weapon.
Right...but again, in the videos he is not nursing wounds or being looked after for wounds. So answer your own question I guess.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
I'm not saying he didn't get injured but there are videos of the aftermath and he doesn't appear to be nursing wounds or having anyone look at his wounds.
It says he has a fractured orbital bone. Exactly how many broken bones in a person's skull is required before a cop can assess his assailant as a threat to his life?
Let alone the grab for his weapon.
Right...but again, in the videos he is not nursing wounds or being looked after for wounds. So answer your own question I guess.
We are all just firing away without really knowing the story.
Again, there is an element of overkill here, but for the moment I'll side with the officer versus the criminal until we are presented with the entire story from a credible source.
There’s at least one line every Marine knows: “Never point a weapon at anything you do not intend to shoot.” The St. Louis County Police Department apparently never received that memo
Dosent Holders presence in and of itself play right into the crowd mentality of guilt by accusation.Why this issue for the glorious presences of Holder. If this cop gets a fair shake I'd be surprised.Its a no win for DA and the Federal Gov should NOT be involved here.There is no pre established racially motivated actions,nor does the cop have a history of race issue.This is a local issue.Elected local officials should be dealing with this.It does not reach a Civil Rights violation.Not a federal issue and would be a slippery slope if they take it.
We must be reading different news. Also rr I'm still waiting for a link talking about the dozens of witnesses backing the cops version of the events.
2. Black people account for most arrests in Ferguson
Last year, black residents accounted for 86% of the vehicle stops made by Ferguson police and nearly 93% of the arrests made from those stops, according to the state attorney general. FBI statistics show that 85% of the people arrested by Ferguson police are black, and that 92% of people arrested specifically for disorderly conduct are black.
But 65% of the population in Ferguson is black. And only 6% of their police force is black. Ummmm...... I think I see a bit of a problem here.
Stats on how many qualified black applicants tried for employment within the dept would be helpful.How many officers do they employ?Is there a hiring practice issue(different discussion).State police and county don't have the same demographically challenged issues do they?
There are 53 officers on the Ferguson police force and only 3 of them are black (or 4 - for some reason that number is unclear), and every single other cop is white. There is not a single other ethnicity represented in the force. So we're talking local police force.... however, almost all of Missouri is white - it's like Ferguson is where all the black people are - so the stats for the state police are similar, but much less meaningful. According to the Ferguson police, this massive discrepancy is due to the fact that all the black people in Ferguson have an ongoing distrust of the police force and therefore don't want to be on it. I'd say that statement reenforces the idea that the police force has problems related to racial relations, and that's under the very dubious assumption that the police chief is telling the truth (or is even capable of recognizing if there is a problem). It doesn't explain anything away at all.
Another interesting fact: "Missouri law requires the state’s attorney general to issue an annual Vehicle Stops Report detailing demographic information for people pulled over by officers in each city. In 2013, the attorney general’s office reported that black drivers in Ferguson were about twice as likely to be arrested after police stops than whites. Blacks made up 93 percent of 2013 arrests after car stops." (politifact.com)
If the majority of the population is black, is it jot fair to guess that majority of traffic stops (or arrests) are black people and not have it be racial profiling?
Short video without a ton of context, but didn't seem like anyone was doing anything wrong to me. What did they do wrong?
Cliffy, dude was outnumbered. People are shooting guns, throwing rocks and Molotov cocktails at him what do you expect. He's on loosing side no matter what he does. I'd do the same. Vilifying cops is bad deal. Makes things worse. Bad cops need to go but I'm so thankful this dude didn't just quit being a cop.
Dosent Holders presence in and of itself play right into the crowd mentality of guilt by accusation.Why this issue for the glorious presences of Holder. If this cop gets a fair shake I'd be surprised.Its a no win for DA and the Federal Gov should NOT be involved here.There is no pre established racially motivated actions,nor does the cop have a history of race issue.This is a local issue.Elected local officials should be dealing with this.It does not reach a Civil Rights violation.Not a federal issue and would be a slippery slope if they take it.
We must be reading different news. Also rr I'm still waiting for a link talking about the dozens of witnesses backing the cops version of the events.
2. Black people account for most arrests in Ferguson
Last year, black residents accounted for 86% of the vehicle stops made by Ferguson police and nearly 93% of the arrests made from those stops, according to the state attorney general. FBI statistics show that 85% of the people arrested by Ferguson police are black, and that 92% of people arrested specifically for disorderly conduct are black.
But 65% of the population in Ferguson is black. And only 6% of their police force is black. Ummmm...... I think I see a bit of a problem here.
Stats on how many qualified black applicants tried for employment within the dept would be helpful.How many officers do they employ?Is there a hiring practice issue(different discussion).State police and county don't have the same demographically challenged issues do they?
There are 53 officers on the Ferguson police force and only 3 of them are black (or 4 - for some reason that number is unclear), and every single other cop is white. There is not a single other ethnicity represented in the force. So we're talking local police force.... however, almost all of Missouri is white - it's like Ferguson is where all the black people are - so the stats for the state police are similar, but much less meaningful. According to the Ferguson police, this massive discrepancy is due to the fact that all the black people in Ferguson have an ongoing distrust of the police force and therefore don't want to be on it. I'd say that statement reenforces the idea that the police force has problems related to racial relations, and that's under the very dubious assumption that the police chief is telling the truth (or is even capable of recognizing if there is a problem). It doesn't explain anything away at all.
Another interesting fact: "Missouri law requires the state’s attorney general to issue an annual Vehicle Stops Report detailing demographic information for people pulled over by officers in each city. In 2013, the attorney general’s office reported that black drivers in Ferguson were about twice as likely to be arrested after police stops than whites. Blacks made up 93 percent of 2013 arrests after car stops." (politifact.com)
If the majority of the population is black, is it jot fair to guess that majority of traffic stops (or arrests) are black people and not have it be racial profiling?
Yes, it would be fair if it were a reasonable majority, basically reflecting the population. But that's not the case here. There are only 67% blacks, there were twice as likely as white people to be pulled over at all, and they made up 93% of the arrests after stops. That math doesn't add up. Yes, I know economic disparity comes into play here. Which actually just accentuates the main problem, no? But I'd say the main issue is that they make up 67% of the population and only 6% of the police force is black. And not only that but every single one of that 94% that isn't black is white. That is a significant statistic to say the least. It's the least diverse police force I think I've ever heard of.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
There’s at least one line every Marine knows: “Never point a weapon at anything you do not intend to shoot.” The St. Louis County Police Department apparently never received that memo
this is what young hunters learn when grandpa takes them hunting. that is wrong for that cop to be doing (pointing his gun at folks) but it is a mob scene & tension is high & this is a way ppl get shot
Short video without a ton of context, but didn't seem like anyone was doing anything wrong to me. What did they do wrong?
Cliffy, dude was outnumbered. People are shooting guns, throwing rocks and Molotov cocktails at him what do you expect. He's on loosing side no matter what he does. I'd do the same. Vilifying cops is bad deal. Makes things worse. Bad cops need to go but I'm so thankful this dude didn't just quit being a cop.
What is the argument for Ferguson having only 6% of the police force being black? Are black people trying and not being hired? Were any of the 6% of black cops born and raised in Ferguson? Does that matter? Do those numbers include the county law enforcement as well?
I guess what my point is that there are to many variables about why or why not there are only 6% of the law enforcement is black. So I'm not sure what significance that statistic has.
Comments
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
free
free & free
as in gifted
also this isn't quite a tank but i'm still looking
MRAP (Mine-Resistant Ambush Protected) vehicle
tax payers on the hook it seems
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
But yeah, they got a lot of the stuff free from the military.
As far as cameras go, if they could eliminate one big lawsuit settlement for police brutality, you'd think that would pay for all the cameras they could ever need.
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
pepper spray? comedy gold to some folks. i remember reading the other week ago - pepper spray or taser works. yep... not really. nor does a gun shot to the abdomen work with some mad dudes
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/Another_Shooting_In_Ferguson
Godfather.
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
Let alone the grab for his weapon.
Godfather.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/08/15/the-day-ferguson-cops-were-caught-in-a-bloody-lie.html
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
broken orbital
Again, there is an element of overkill here, but for the moment I'll side with the officer versus the criminal until we are presented with the entire story from a credible source.
"I'll fucking kill you"
And people wonder why people feel this cop needs to explain himself. Why in the hell is he walking around waving his gun like that?
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
a mob scene does not equal peaceful protesting
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
I guess what my point is that there are to many variables about why or why not there are only 6% of the law enforcement is black. So I'm not sure what significance that statistic has.