Michael Brown Shooting

myoung321

Godfather. said:

Gern Blansten said:

Godfather. said:

and one other thing, can you imagine being a cop in a high crime and violence area ? I'm not saying cops are perfect there are some bad cops but but they do get death threats just because they're cops,they get shot at just because they're cops and they get killed just because they're cops.....that would make a person a little more cautious don't ya think ?

Godfather.

Sure it would....but how does that justify killing Michael Brown when he's got his hands up, he's on the ground, and he's already been shot 2 times?

Im not trying to justify anything Im pointing out that people get killed everyday and some by cops but soon as a black person gets killed by a cop or a white person all hell breaks loose,the larger percentage of blacks killed in violent crimes are by other blacks but you don't see looting and arson in that case do you.


Godfather.

You're just passing on a stereotype...that's total BS... not helpful

Please show some Justice Department stats that show black on black crime is higher than white on white....

This is about a community that has basically lived under police occupation since segregation. Keep taking away opportunities and keep making the economic equality wider and cities will begin to burn.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUdHIatS36A

dignin

myoung321 said:

The most disturbing part of this is the militarization of the police. Between the War on Drugs and "Terrorism" the local Law Enforcement has gotten out of hand.

We've lost something when you see police officers in full combat gear sitting on top of armored personnel carriers looking through semi automatic assault weapon scopes at Americans. After all these days they are still pointing weapons at people... WTF?....

When Amnesty International has to dispatch inspectors to an American city, something needs to change.

It is a sad state.

Last-12-Exit

I'm not contradicting myself. I have an opinion based on nothing more than what I've read in the papers and seen on tv. I haven't presented anything as fact or said the cop was a murderer or said that Brown had it coming.

My opinion is just that. I'm not ready to declare the cop a murderer or innocent. That doesn't mean that I am contradicting myself for having an opinion.

Last-12-Exit

myoung321 said:

Godfather. said:

Gern Blansten said:

Godfather. said:

and one other thing, can you imagine being a cop in a high crime and violence area ? I'm not saying cops are perfect there are some bad cops but but they do get death threats just because they're cops,they get shot at just because they're cops and they get killed just because they're cops.....that would make a person a little more cautious don't ya think ?

Godfather.

Sure it would....but how does that justify killing Michael Brown when he's got his hands up, he's on the ground, and he's already been shot 2 times?

Im not trying to justify anything Im pointing out that people get killed everyday and some by cops but soon as a black person gets killed by a cop or a white person all hell breaks loose,the larger percentage of blacks killed in violent crimes are by other blacks but you don't see looting and arson in that case do you.


Godfather.

You're just passing on a stereotype...that's total BS... not helpful

Please show some Justice Department stats that show black on black crime is higher than white on white....

This is about a community that has basically lived under police occupation since segregation. Keep taking away opportunities and keep making the economic equality wider and cities will begin to burn.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUdHIatS36A

A community that has basically lived under police occupation since segregation?

Would you expand on that please? PM me if you like. Im not being a smart ass, I would.like to know what you are referencing.

chadwick

very sad stuff going on here & around the world. law enforcement probably doesn't like rocks, molotov cocktails & whatever else thrown at them. didn't i read that some are shooting at law enforcement too? good ideas

burn down shops, loot, riot & act the fool. this gets you everywhere

Gern Blansten

Keep in mind that the store owner made it clear that he did NOT call 911 to report anything at the sto

Last-12-Exit said:

Gern Blansten said:

Last-12-Exit said:

Gern Blansten said:

The question is whether Brown was killed illegally by the officer. Whether or not he robbed the store is irrelevant. Stealing cigars is not punishable by death.

No, stealing isn't punishable by death. But the robbery is relevant. Even if the cop doesn't know he robbed the store, Brown doesn't know that. The fact that he robbed a store and minutes later there's a cop around had to have an impact on Brown's decision making process.

Still not punishable by death. Hell murder isn't punishable by death in some states. Worst case this kid was a punk. That warrants two head shots?

He wasn't killed for stealing. We don't know the facts of the case. My assumption is that he was killed for somehow threatening the police officer. You are very quick to call the police officer a murderer when none of us knows the facts of the case.

If I turn out to be wrong I'll admit it. Based on the witnesses and the way the cops are acting I think the kid was murdered.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Cliffy6745 said:

chadwick said:

brown robbed the store & is clutching those cigars. he & his little partner decide to calmly take a stroll down the fucking street, not the sidewalk. let's just be obvious, defiant & show everyone we are runnin the show around here. when asked to take the walk to the sidewalk by a policeman we will be as we are... runnin the show around here

good ideas these folks had

strong arming a shopkeeper & walking down the damn street. asking for trouble anyone? if you are gonna be a thug ass criminal why not use your damn brain? petty crime, yes. stupid ass bullshit

Asking for trouble or asking to be killed?

Without knowing the full story that seems to change every day... I'm not blaming the officer for what occurred quite yet.

What we do know is this guy had committed a crime, strutted down the middle of the street- essentially telling the world to go fuck themselves- defied police orders, and- likely thinking he was being detained for the robbery he just committed- resisted arrest (apparently lunging for a weapon as well).

On that note... if it is proven he lunged for the officer's weapon... what was he going to do with it? If he had shot the cop... everyone would be saying, "Why didn't the cop use his gun? What type of cop allows the detained to grab his gun and use it against him?"

From everything I have read, this case must determine exactly what threat Brown presented to the officer handling the situation. If it is established that Brown- a massive human being by all accounts- presented himself as a formidable threat that could easily overpower the officer and that he made an effort to do so... then I don't know if we should be the ones to judge whether or not excessive force was used or not. A cop, upholding the law and in a life or death situation against a criminal gets my support. Sorry.

Brown was in control of the situation to start with:
1. He didn't have to rob the store.
2. He didn't have to walk down the middle of the street demanding attention.
3. He didn't have to ignore the cops demands which were reasonable to start with.
4. He didn't have to resist arrest and lunge for a weapon.

Better judgement at any one of those moments and he likely would still be alive. In hindsight and from afar, it's easy to say what the cop should have done; but given the cop was forced to deal with the moment and make instantaneous decisions that might have cost him his life... I'm inclined to exercise a bare minimum of understanding... at least until the full story comes out.

Cliffy6745

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Cliffy6745 said:

chadwick said:

brown robbed the store & is clutching those cigars. he & his little partner decide to calmly take a stroll down the fucking street, not the sidewalk. let's just be obvious, defiant & show everyone we are runnin the show around here. when asked to take the walk to the sidewalk by a policeman we will be as we are... runnin the show around here

good ideas these folks had

strong arming a shopkeeper & walking down the damn street. asking for trouble anyone? if you are gonna be a thug ass criminal why not use your damn brain? petty crime, yes. stupid ass bullshit

Asking for trouble or asking to be killed?

Without knowing the full story that seems to change every day... I'm not blaming the officer for what occurred quite yet.

What we do know is this guy had committed a crime, strutted down the middle of the street- essentially telling the world to go fuck themselves- defied police orders, and- likely thinking he was being detained for the robbery he just committed- resisted arrest (apparently lunging for a weapon as well).

On that note... if it is proven he lunged for the officer's weapon... what was he going to do with it? If he had shot the cop... everyone would be saying, "Why didn't the cop use his gun? What type of cop allows the detained to grab his gun and use it against him?"

From everything I have read, this case must determine exactly what threat Brown presented to the officer handling the situation. If it is established that Brown- a massive human being by all accounts- presented himself as a formidable threat that could easily overpower the officer and that he made an effort to do so... then I don't know if we should be the ones to judge whether or not excessive force was used or not. A cop, upholding the law and in a life or death situation against a criminal gets my support. Sorry.

Brown was in control of the situation to start with:
1. He didn't have to rob the store.
2. He didn't have to walk down the middle of the street demanding attention.
3. He didn't have to ignore the cops demands which were reasonable to start with.
4. He didn't have to resist arrest and lunge for a weapon.

Better judgement at any one of those moments and he likely would still be alive. In hindsight and from afar, it's easy to say what the cop should have done; but given the cop was forced to deal with the moment and make instantaneous decisions that might have cost him his life... I'm inclined to exercise a bare minimum of understanding... at least until the full story comes out.

I don't disagree at all. The story has to come out. We will see if it does. But to basically say the guy deserves what he got because he was asking for trouble is insane.

The fact is an unarmed 18 year old is dead, regardless of race. People have every reason to be angry and want answers.

Everyone has handled the situation terribly

Last-12-Exit

Gern, fair enough. (To much to quote).

norm

Cliffy6745 said:

But to basically say the guy deserves what he got because he was asking for trouble is insane.

The fact is an unarmed 18 year old is dead, regardless of race. People have every reason to be angry and want answers.

Everyone has handled the situation terribly

hedonist

Being angry yes. Wanting, demanding answers, yes.

As it should be.

But what is the point of destroying parts of your community? Stealing from them, burning them? Businesses owned by the people you live among, people you're probably protesting alongside with? Not to mention violence against the police...damning all for the yet-to-be-fully-investigated actions of one?

It all seems counterproductive.

Gern Blansten

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Cliffy6745 said:

chadwick said:

brown robbed the store & is clutching those cigars. he & his little partner decide to calmly take a stroll down the fucking street, not the sidewalk. let's just be obvious, defiant & show everyone we are runnin the show around here. when asked to take the walk to the sidewalk by a policeman we will be as we are... runnin the show around here

good ideas these folks had

strong arming a shopkeeper & walking down the damn street. asking for trouble anyone? if you are gonna be a thug ass criminal why not use your damn brain? petty crime, yes. stupid ass bullshit

Asking for trouble or asking to be killed?

Without knowing the full story that seems to change every day... I'm not blaming the officer for what occurred quite yet.

What we do know is this guy had committed a crime, strutted down the middle of the street- essentially telling the world to go fuck themselves- defied police orders, and- likely thinking he was being detained for the robbery he just committed- resisted arrest (apparently lunging for a weapon as well).

On that note... if it is proven he lunged for the officer's weapon... what was he going to do with it? If he had shot the cop... everyone would be saying, "Why didn't the cop use his gun? What type of cop allows the detained to grab his gun and use it against him?"

From everything I have read, this case must determine exactly what threat Brown presented to the officer handling the situation. If it is established that Brown- a massive human being by all accounts- presented himself as a formidable threat that could easily overpower the officer and that he made an effort to do so... then I don't know if we should be the ones to judge whether or not excessive force was used or not. A cop, upholding the law and in a life or death situation against a criminal gets my support. Sorry.

Brown was in control of the situation to start with:
1. He didn't have to rob the store.
2. He didn't have to walk down the middle of the street demanding attention.
3. He didn't have to ignore the cops demands which were reasonable to start with.
4. He didn't have to resist arrest and lunge for a weapon.

Better judgement at any one of those moments and he likely would still be alive. In hindsight and from afar, it's easy to say what the cop should have done; but given the cop was forced to deal with the moment and make instantaneous decisions that might have cost him his life... I'm inclined to exercise a bare minimum of understanding... at least until the full story comes out.

If he reached in the car to grab for a weapon I can see a shot being justified for sure. It seems to me that the cop over reacted. I understand that it would have been a very tense situation to fight someone off who might be trying to grab your gun and shoot you. But if the witnesses are right and the kid had his hands up then that is murder.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Cliffy6745 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Cliffy6745 said:

chadwick said:

brown robbed the store & is clutching those cigars. he & his little partner decide to calmly take a stroll down the fucking street, not the sidewalk. let's just be obvious, defiant & show everyone we are runnin the show around here. when asked to take the walk to the sidewalk by a policeman we will be as we are... runnin the show around here

good ideas these folks had

strong arming a shopkeeper & walking down the damn street. asking for trouble anyone? if you are gonna be a thug ass criminal why not use your damn brain? petty crime, yes. stupid ass bullshit

Asking for trouble or asking to be killed?

Without knowing the full story that seems to change every day... I'm not blaming the officer for what occurred quite yet.

What we do know is this guy had committed a crime, strutted down the middle of the street- essentially telling the world to go fuck themselves- defied police orders, and- likely thinking he was being detained for the robbery he just committed- resisted arrest (apparently lunging for a weapon as well).

On that note... if it is proven he lunged for the officer's weapon... what was he going to do with it? If he had shot the cop... everyone would be saying, "Why didn't the cop use his gun? What type of cop allows the detained to grab his gun and use it against him?"

From everything I have read, this case must determine exactly what threat Brown presented to the officer handling the situation. If it is established that Brown- a massive human being by all accounts- presented himself as a formidable threat that could easily overpower the officer and that he made an effort to do so... then I don't know if we should be the ones to judge whether or not excessive force was used or not. A cop, upholding the law and in a life or death situation against a criminal gets my support. Sorry.

Brown was in control of the situation to start with:
1. He didn't have to rob the store.
2. He didn't have to walk down the middle of the street demanding attention.
3. He didn't have to ignore the cops demands which were reasonable to start with.
4. He didn't have to resist arrest and lunge for a weapon.

Better judgement at any one of those moments and he likely would still be alive. In hindsight and from afar, it's easy to say what the cop should have done; but given the cop was forced to deal with the moment and make instantaneous decisions that might have cost him his life... I'm inclined to exercise a bare minimum of understanding... at least until the full story comes out.

I don't disagree at all. The story has to come out. We will see if it does. But to basically say the guy deserves what he got because he was asking for trouble is insane.

The fact is an unarmed 18 year old is dead, regardless of race. People have every reason to be angry and want answers.

Everyone has handled the situation terribly

Many have handled the situation terribly... I agree.

I'm not happy Brown has been killed. All I'm saying is that his actions were reckless and he placed himself in harm's way- it's as if he played 'chicken' with the law. Most are calling for the cop's head, but they tend to forget that Brown pushed the envelope.

18 years old is not 8 years old. Brown knew what he was doing.

lukin2006

Maybe before everyone riots people should just let the investigators do their jobs ... it seems to me people are concluding that if the facts indicate their was wrong doing by the officer he won't face charges. As for people calling for his immediate arrest ... really, police officer always get the benefit of the doubt its the nature of the beast.

And in the future no matter what race you are when the police stop you and want to ask you questions, maybe just answer or don't but at the very least be respectful, don't make any threatening moves and keep your hands where they can be seen.

Just for the record I'm not saying this kid did anything wrong ... I just don't know, I'm at the very least willing to let investigators sort things out. and i sure as hell wouldn't be demonstrating or rioting unless I knew the facts ... which at this point it appears no one does.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Gern Blansten said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Cliffy6745 said:

chadwick said:

brown robbed the store & is clutching those cigars. he & his little partner decide to calmly take a stroll down the fucking street, not the sidewalk. let's just be obvious, defiant & show everyone we are runnin the show around here. when asked to take the walk to the sidewalk by a policeman we will be as we are... runnin the show around here

good ideas these folks had

strong arming a shopkeeper & walking down the damn street. asking for trouble anyone? if you are gonna be a thug ass criminal why not use your damn brain? petty crime, yes. stupid ass bullshit

Asking for trouble or asking to be killed?

Without knowing the full story that seems to change every day... I'm not blaming the officer for what occurred quite yet.

What we do know is this guy had committed a crime, strutted down the middle of the street- essentially telling the world to go fuck themselves- defied police orders, and- likely thinking he was being detained for the robbery he just committed- resisted arrest (apparently lunging for a weapon as well).

On that note... if it is proven he lunged for the officer's weapon... what was he going to do with it? If he had shot the cop... everyone would be saying, "Why didn't the cop use his gun? What type of cop allows the detained to grab his gun and use it against him?"

From everything I have read, this case must determine exactly what threat Brown presented to the officer handling the situation. If it is established that Brown- a massive human being by all accounts- presented himself as a formidable threat that could easily overpower the officer and that he made an effort to do so... then I don't know if we should be the ones to judge whether or not excessive force was used or not. A cop, upholding the law and in a life or death situation against a criminal gets my support. Sorry.

Brown was in control of the situation to start with:
1. He didn't have to rob the store.
2. He didn't have to walk down the middle of the street demanding attention.
3. He didn't have to ignore the cops demands which were reasonable to start with.
4. He didn't have to resist arrest and lunge for a weapon.

Better judgement at any one of those moments and he likely would still be alive. In hindsight and from afar, it's easy to say what the cop should have done; but given the cop was forced to deal with the moment and make instantaneous decisions that might have cost him his life... I'm inclined to exercise a bare minimum of understanding... at least until the full story comes out.

If he reached in the car to grab for a weapon I can see a shot being justified for sure. It seems to me that the cop over reacted. I understand that it would have been a very tense situation to fight someone off who might be trying to grab your gun and shoot you. But if the witnesses are right and the kid had his hands up then that is murder.

Yes.

But there are conflicting reports from various witnesses. Some of the witnesses that say he had his hands up have some serious credibility issues.

Let's wait until the full story unfolds and if it is indeed established that he's a murderer... then let's get him.

gimmesometruth27

people in the st louis area are calling for the police to start shooting real bullets at the people protesting.

i have been politically active and protesting for over 20 years and i have never ever once heard people in our local media and people calling in to talk shows demanding use of lethal force.

my city has gone to shit in 10 days.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

gimmesometruth27 said:

people in the st louis area are calling for the police to start shooting real bullets at the people protesting.

i have been politically active and protesting for over 20 years and i have never ever once heard people in our local media and people calling in to talk shows demanding use of lethal force.

my city has gone to shit in 10 days.

I've been reading your posts with interest. I'm curious to know where you stand with regards to this issue at the current moment. I know initially you 'seemed' outraged at what looked to be another shooting, but I'm curious to know where you sit right now given everything you have likely heard about the case?

It goes without saying that the aftermath you are currently experiencing is beyond unsettling for so many reasons- complete madness.

rr165892

Gern Blansten said:

Last-12-Exit said:

Gern Blansten said:

The question is whether Brown was killed illegally by the officer. Whether or not he robbed the store is irrelevant. Stealing cigars is not punishable by death.

No, stealing isn't punishable by death. But the robbery is relevant. Even if the cop doesn't know he robbed the store, Brown doesn't know that. The fact that he robbed a store and minutes later there's a cop around had to have an impact on Brown's decision making process.

Still not punishable by death. Hell murder isn't punishable by death in some states. Worst case this kid was a punk. That warrants two head shots?

If he charged at the cop its justified after he tried to take the gun.end of story.

rr165892

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Cliffy6745 said:

chadwick said:

brown robbed the store & is clutching those cigars. he & his little partner decide to calmly take a stroll down the fucking street, not the sidewalk. let's just be obvious, defiant & show everyone we are runnin the show around here. when asked to take the walk to the sidewalk by a policeman we will be as we are... runnin the show around here

good ideas these folks had

strong arming a shopkeeper & walking down the damn street. asking for trouble anyone? if you are gonna be a thug ass criminal why not use your damn brain? petty crime, yes. stupid ass bullshit

Asking for trouble or asking to be killed?

Without knowing the full story that seems to change every day... I'm not blaming the officer for what occurred quite yet.

What we do know is this guy had committed a crime, strutted down the middle of the street- essentially telling the world to go fuck themselves- defied police orders, and- likely thinking he was being detained for the robbery he just committed- resisted arrest (apparently lunging for a weapon as well).

On that note... if it is proven he lunged for the officer's weapon... what was he going to do with it? If he had shot the cop... everyone would be saying, "Why didn't the cop use his gun? What type of cop allows the detained to grab his gun and use it against him?"

From everything I have read, this case must determine exactly what threat Brown presented to the officer handling the situation. If it is established that Brown- a massive human being by all accounts- presented himself as a formidable threat that could easily overpower the officer and that he made an effort to do so... then I don't know if we should be the ones to judge whether or not excessive force was used or not. A cop, upholding the law and in a life or death situation against a criminal gets my support. Sorry.

Brown was in control of the situation to start with:
1. He didn't have to rob the store.
2. He didn't have to walk down the middle of the street demanding attention.
3. He didn't have to ignore the cops demands which were reasonable to start with.
4. He didn't have to resist arrest and lunge for a weapon.

Better judgement at any one of those moments and he likely would still be alive. In hindsight and from afar, it's easy to say what the cop should have done; but given the cop was forced to deal with the moment and make instantaneous decisions that might have cost him his life... I'm inclined to exercise a bare minimum of understanding... at least until the full story comes out.

Good post thirty!

Cliffy6745

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Cliffy6745 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Cliffy6745 said:

chadwick said:

brown robbed the store & is clutching those cigars. he & his little partner decide to calmly take a stroll down the fucking street, not the sidewalk. let's just be obvious, defiant & show everyone we are runnin the show around here. when asked to take the walk to the sidewalk by a policeman we will be as we are... runnin the show around here

good ideas these folks had

strong arming a shopkeeper & walking down the damn street. asking for trouble anyone? if you are gonna be a thug ass criminal why not use your damn brain? petty crime, yes. stupid ass bullshit

Asking for trouble or asking to be killed?

Without knowing the full story that seems to change every day... I'm not blaming the officer for what occurred quite yet.

What we do know is this guy had committed a crime, strutted down the middle of the street- essentially telling the world to go fuck themselves- defied police orders, and- likely thinking he was being detained for the robbery he just committed- resisted arrest (apparently lunging for a weapon as well).

On that note... if it is proven he lunged for the officer's weapon... what was he going to do with it? If he had shot the cop... everyone would be saying, "Why didn't the cop use his gun? What type of cop allows the detained to grab his gun and use it against him?"

From everything I have read, this case must determine exactly what threat Brown presented to the officer handling the situation. If it is established that Brown- a massive human being by all accounts- presented himself as a formidable threat that could easily overpower the officer and that he made an effort to do so... then I don't know if we should be the ones to judge whether or not excessive force was used or not. A cop, upholding the law and in a life or death situation against a criminal gets my support. Sorry.

Brown was in control of the situation to start with:
1. He didn't have to rob the store.
2. He didn't have to walk down the middle of the street demanding attention.
3. He didn't have to ignore the cops demands which were reasonable to start with.
4. He didn't have to resist arrest and lunge for a weapon.

Better judgement at any one of those moments and he likely would still be alive. In hindsight and from afar, it's easy to say what the cop should have done; but given the cop was forced to deal with the moment and make instantaneous decisions that might have cost him his life... I'm inclined to exercise a bare minimum of understanding... at least until the full story comes out.

I don't disagree at all. The story has to come out. We will see if it does. But to basically say the guy deserves what he got because he was asking for trouble is insane.

The fact is an unarmed 18 year old is dead, regardless of race. People have every reason to be angry and want answers.

Everyone has handled the situation terribly

Many have handled the situation terribly... I agree.

I'm not happy Brown has been killed. All I'm saying is that his actions were reckless and he placed himself in harm's way- it's as if he played 'chicken' with the law. Most are calling for the cop's head, but they tend to forget that Brown pushed the envelope.

18 years old is not 8 years old. Brown knew what he was doing.

Again, being reckless and asking for trouble is no reason to be killed. Perhaps the cop did feel threatened but also acted recklessly. The difference is it is job not to. I don't know why this guy gets the benefit of the doubt so much. Did he want to kill someone? Most certainly not but it doesn't mean he didn't do anything wrond

Why do cops not all have tasers?