Yay, I see the racist is out in force since I last checked in.
Why is this Rascist?I can't speak for others,but I hate criminals of all colors.And in THIS case I think the kid was a thug not an angel and his actions led to his demise.No color needed
Travon was way more innocent then this clown was.
Not you.
Although while you say this specific cop doesn't have a history of race issues, it does sound like the entire police force does, in general.
Maybe you should also give the investigators a call since you know so much about how it went down.
There may be past cases of intolerance,but in a community dominated mainly by one demographic of people ,with mixed in economic stagnation and a police force who is another demographic I think its easy to see where conflicts like this could be common place.Is it Selma AL in the 60s no way.Are freedoms and rights being suppressed ? no.Are random people being singled out based on color? No These areas are powder kegs of emotion.IMO its more about economics and the frustration of being trapped within this enviorment.Race just plays as an easy way to vent this built up angst as a scapegoat for the real issues .
How the hell do you know all this?
Cliff,Come spend some time here in the south.This shit happens everyday.We still have areas that are dominated by one demographic or the other.The symptoms are the same.Lower economic run,Lots of broken families.Absent fathers,high drug traffic,street crimes are plentiful.Violence and gang activity is common.Entitlements rule,No jobs available within the community.The list goes on.The majority of our counties crime numbers generate from those areas,The majority of Police shootings Involve People who either live,travel or came from those areas. We have a lot of law enforcement who are also minorities ,so when a shooting happens with police most the time its not publicized and Its just police shot a thug,drugged out freak or someone committing a crime.Sports,Education,military and a trade are the way out.For those who don't follow those paths and choose to stay and live in these communities deal with the statistical probabilities that they will be a victim of crime,turn to crime themselves or have run ins with law enforcement on a more regular basis then someone living in a middle class or affluent suburb.
My mom lives in Greenville, NC. So I spend a bit of time down there. I think the issues you talk about are obviously much bigger than just Ferguson or the South, although they may be a bit worse there. These are the issues facing our entire country and it is no different from urban Philadelphia. Lack of jobs and education. A guy was killed by police the other day here and you won't hear anything about it, which I think says a lot about how the people there feel in general about their treatment.
While this is obviously a much bigger issue, my opinion is that everything comes back to education. You can't expect people to just find a way without providing at least the opportunity for a half way decent education. I could go on and on about this though.
While much of this probably applies to Ferguson, from what I am reading their issues stem specifically from their treatment by the police.
Greenville is a nice little city.Spent some summers as a kid in Hendersonville not far from there. And you're right the hood in Philly would experience similar issues.
Home of ECU!!!!!
Nice, yeah, not too bad. She really likes it. Just a hike from up here. She moved down maybe 6 years ago and is actually the chair of a department at ECU.
Dosent Holders presence in and of itself play right into the crowd mentality of guilt by accusation.Why this issue for the glorious presences of Holder. If this cop gets a fair shake I'd be surprised.Its a no win for DA and the Federal Gov should NOT be involved here.There is no pre established racially motivated actions,nor does the cop have a history of race issue.This is a local issue.Elected local officials should be dealing with this.It does not reach a Civil Rights violation.Not a federal issue and would be a slippery slope if they take it.
We must be reading different news. Also rr I'm still waiting for a link talking about the dozens of witnesses backing the cops version of the events.
2. Black people account for most arrests in Ferguson
Last year, black residents accounted for 86% of the vehicle stops made by Ferguson police and nearly 93% of the arrests made from those stops, according to the state attorney general. FBI statistics show that 85% of the people arrested by Ferguson police are black, and that 92% of people arrested specifically for disorderly conduct are black.
But 65% of the population in Ferguson is black. And only 6% of their police force is black. Ummmm...... I think I see a bit of a problem here.
Stats on how many qualified black applicants tried for employment within the dept would be helpful.How many officers do they employ?Is there a hiring practice issue(different discussion).State police and county don't have the same demographically challenged issues do they?
There are 53 officers on the Ferguson police force and only 3 of them are black (or 4 - for some reason that number is unclear), and every single other cop is white. There is not a single other ethnicity represented in the force. So we're talking local police force.... however, almost all if Missouri is white - it's like Ferguson is where all the black people are - so the stats for the state police is similar, but much less meaningful. Accordoing to the Ferguson police, this massive discrepancy is due to the fact that all the black people in Ferguson have an ongoing distrust of the police force and therefore don't want to be on it. I'd say that statement reenforces the idea that the police force has problems related to racial relations, and that's under the very dubious assumption that the police chief is telling the truth (or is even capable of recognizing if there is a problem). It doesn't explain anything away at all.
Another interesting fact: "Missouri law requires the state’s attorney general to issue an annual Vehicle Stops Report detailing demographic information for people pulled over by officers in each city. In 2013, the attorney general’s office reported that black drivers in Ferguson were about twice as likely to be arrested after police stops than whites. Blacks made up 93 percent of 2013 arrests after car stops." (politifact.com)
Arrests after being pulled over May have more to do with failure to pay fines. No insurance. Economic issues as well as potentially race driven. Nothing is black and white. Racism is alive and well but so is economic disparity.
Yay, I see the racist is out in force since I last checked in.
Why is this Rascist?I can't speak for others,but I hate criminals of all colors.And in THIS case I think the kid was a thug not an angel and his actions led to his demise.No color needed
Travon was way more innocent then this clown was.
Not you.
Although while you say this specific cop doesn't have a history of race issues, it does sound like the entire police force does, in general.
Maybe you should also give the investigators a call since you know so much about how it went down.
There may be past cases of intolerance,but in a community dominated mainly by one demographic of people ,with mixed in economic stagnation and a police force who is another demographic I think its easy to see where conflicts like this could be common place.Is it Selma AL in the 60s no way.Are freedoms and rights being suppressed ? no.Are random people being singled out based on color? No These areas are powder kegs of emotion.IMO its more about economics and the frustration of being trapped within this enviorment.Race just plays as an easy way to vent this built up angst as a scapegoat for the real issues .
How the hell do you know all this?
Agree with most of what RR wrote. Think it's pretty universally accepted.
A lot of it is, until you get to this part: "Are freedoms and rights being suppressed ? no.Are random people being singled out based on color? No"
Truth is, we don't know that the answers are "no". If you can't walk down the street without getting followed and questioned, or you get beaten by an over zealous cop, I would imagine that you would feel like your rights are being suppressed. And the arrest stats seem to show that black people are being singled out.
I'm not sure of the legal definition of discrimination, maybe these citizens aren't being denied jobs or education or housing based on their skin color, but if you feel like you are being harrassed and not given a fair shake, because you are a certain color, that has to be some sort of discrimination, right?
Sort of like sexual harassment.., it's basically harassment if the victim feels harassed. It's obvious that these people feel harassed based on their skin color.
Yeah had issues with those lines as well. But in end if all were part of the bounty would be better.
Blackredyellow, Lets not forget he was hassled because he was walking down the middle of the fucking road,being a belligerent cocky asshole to the cop while holding a handful of stolen goods which he just strong armed robbed from a hard working fellow member of his community.So random targeting based on color holds zero weight here.Stick with facts
Exactly stick with the facts. None of what you wrote here are facts. They maybe true but we don't know that yet.
Kid on film robbing store=fact Walking in road witnessed by everyone=fact Mouthing off to cop witnessed by many=fact Had cigars on him=fact Only thing that is conjecture is he wasn't singled out.
Are these the same dozens of witnesses you referenced hearing about on CNN? I've heard other witnesses say different, but I'm not claiming that what they have said is fact.
As far as the robbery goes, we still don't know the facts surrounding that. Only what the police have stated, which as has been shown before, they are not above reproach. I have not yet heard audio to that video, but maybe there is no audio.
My point is I am not going to believe what the cops have said yet. Until they provide some proof.
Yay, I see the racist is out in force since I last checked in.
Why is this Rascist?I can't speak for others,but I hate criminals of all colors.And in THIS case I think the kid was a thug not an angel and his actions led to his demise.No color needed
Travon was way more innocent then this clown was.
Not you.
Although while you say this specific cop doesn't have a history of race issues, it does sound like the entire police force does, in general.
Maybe you should also give the investigators a call since you know so much about how it went down.
These areas are powder kegs of emotion.IMO its more about economics and the frustration of being trapped within this enviorment.Race just plays as an easy way to vent this built up angst as a scapegoat for the real issues .
How the hell do you know all this?
Agree with most of what RR wrote. Think it's pretty universally accepted.
A lot of it is, until you get to this part: "Are freedoms and rights being suppressed ? no.Are random people being singled out based on color? No"
Truth is, we don't know that the answers are "no". If you can't walk down the street without getting followed and questioned, or you get beaten by an over zealous cop, I would imagine that you would feel like your rights are being suppressed. And the arrest stats seem to show that black people are being singled out.
I'm not sure of the legal definition of discrimination, maybe these citizens aren't being denied jobs or education or housing based on their skin color, but if you feel like you are being harrassed and not given a fair shake, because you are a certain color, that has to be some sort of discrimination, right?
Sort of like sexual harassment.., it's basically harassment if the victim feels harassed. It's obvious that these people feel harassed based on their skin color.
Yeah had issues with those lines as well. But in end if all were part of the bounty would be better.
Blackredyellow, Lets not forget he was hassled because he was walking down the middle of the fucking road,being a belligerent cocky asshole to the cop while holding a handful of stolen goods which he just strong armed robbed from a hard working fellow member of his community.So random targeting based on color holds zero weight here.Stick with facts
Exactly stick with the facts. None of what you wrote here are facts. They maybe true but we don't know that yet.
Kid on film robbing store=fact Walking in road witnessed by everyone=fact Mouthing off to cop witnessed by many=fact Had cigars on him=fact Only thing that is conjecture is he wasn't singled out.
Are these the same dozens of witnesses you referenced hearing about on CNN? I've heard other witnesses say different, but I'm not claiming that what they have said is fact.
As far as the robbery goes, we still don't know the facts surrounding that. Only what the police have stated, which as has been shown before, they are not above reproach. I have not yet heard audio to that video, but maybe there is no audio.
My point is I am not going to believe what the cops have said yet. Until they provide some proof.
Herein lies the problem: you have this backwards. The cops do not have the burden of proving Wilson acted appropriately- unless he is charged and to his defence. The current investigation will try to determine whether excessive force was used and in the event this is established... it is up to the people to demonstrate such by proving it.
This forum consistently demands that people enjoy the rights afforded to them by law. Hell, half the damn community insisted we treat the Boston bombers with dignity and fairness- citing they were innocent until proven guilty. Yet... here... a cop kills a 'gentle giant' in a close quarter confrontation and some of the same people are demanding the cop's head on a platter before due process.
And, without video evidence... it might come down to word vs. word. If this is the case, who are you inclined to believe?
Dosent Holders presence in and of itself play right into the crowd mentality of guilt by accusation.Why this issue for the glorious presences of Holder. If this cop gets a fair shake I'd be surprised.Its a no win for DA and the Federal Gov should NOT be involved here.There is no pre established racially motivated actions,nor does the cop have a history of race issue.This is a local issue.Elected local officials should be dealing with this.It does not reach a Civil Rights violation.Not a federal issue and would be a slippery slope if they take it.
We must be reading different news. Also rr I'm still waiting for a link talking about the dozens of witnesses backing the cops version of the events.
2. Black people account for most arrests in Ferguson
Last year, black residents accounted for 86% of the vehicle stops made by Ferguson police and nearly 93% of the arrests made from those stops, according to the state attorney general. FBI statistics show that 85% of the people arrested by Ferguson police are black, and that 92% of people arrested specifically for disorderly conduct are black.
But 65% of the population in Ferguson is black. And only 6% of their police force is black. Ummmm...... I think I see a bit of a problem here.
Stats on how many qualified black applicants tried for employment within the dept would be helpful.How many officers do they employ?Is there a hiring practice issue(different discussion).State police and county don't have the same demographically challenged issues do they?
It's kind of a never ending circle though... If you are an 18 year old black kid who grew up in a town where you felt like the cops were assholes and everyone told you that the cops were assholes, would you want to be a cop?
The black community as a whole share some blame though... in this whole thing, the older (35+) black residents seem the most sympathetic in this whole thing... they are cleaning up the streets in the morning, they are the business owners, they are offering to care for children who's schools are still closed, they want their families to have a better future, etc., but I saw last night that in the last local election, only 6% of the black population voted (17% of white). If things are that corrupt and that racist in the town, maybe they should have spent some of their energy in recent years mobilizing to change that by running for local office, or supporting minority candidates. With only 17% of white people voting, the black community could easily sweep a local election if they pushed voter turnout.
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
Dosent Holders presence in and of itself play right into the crowd mentality of guilt by accusation.Why this issue for the glorious presences of Holder. If this cop gets a fair shake I'd be surprised.Its a no win for DA and the Federal Gov should NOT be involved here.There is no pre established racially motivated actions,nor does the cop have a history of race issue.This is a local issue.Elected local officials should be dealing with this.It does not reach a Civil Rights violation.Not a federal issue and would be a slippery slope if they take it.
We must be reading different news. Also rr I'm still waiting for a link talking about the dozens of witnesses backing the cops version of the events.
2. Black people account for most arrests in Ferguson
Last year, black residents accounted for 86% of the vehicle stops made by Ferguson police and nearly 93% of the arrests made from those stops, according to the state attorney general. FBI statistics show that 85% of the people arrested by Ferguson police are black, and that 92% of people arrested specifically for disorderly conduct are black.
But 65% of the population in Ferguson is black. And only 6% of their police force is black. Ummmm...... I think I see a bit of a problem here.
Stats on how many qualified black applicants tried for employment within the dept would be helpful.How many officers do they employ?Is there a hiring practice issue(different discussion).State police and county don't have the same demographically challenged issues do they?
There are 53 officers on the Ferguson police force and only 3 of them are black (or 4 - for some reason that number is unclear), and every single other cop is white. There is not a single other ethnicity represented in the force. So we're talking local police force.... however, almost all if Missouri is white - it's like Ferguson is where all the black people are - so the stats for the state police is similar, but much less meaningful. Accordoing to the Ferguson police, this massive discrepancy is due to the fact that all the black people in Ferguson have an ongoing distrust of the police force and therefore don't want to be on it. I'd say that statement reenforces the idea that the police force has problems related to racial relations, and that's under the very dubious assumption that the police chief is telling the truth (or is even capable of recognizing if there is a problem). It doesn't explain anything away at all.
Another interesting fact: "Missouri law requires the state’s attorney general to issue an annual Vehicle Stops Report detailing demographic information for people pulled over by officers in each city. In 2013, the attorney general’s office reported that black drivers in Ferguson were about twice as likely to be arrested after police stops than whites. Blacks made up 93 percent of 2013 arrests after car stops." (politifact.com)
Arrests after being pulled over May have more to do with failure to pay fines. No insurance. Economic issues as well as potentially race driven. Nothing is black and white. Racism is alive and well but so is economic disparity.
Yay, I see the racist is out in force since I last checked in.
Why is this Rascist?I can't speak for others,but I hate criminals of all colors.And in THIS case I think the kid was a thug not an angel and his actions led to his demise.No color needed
Travon was way more innocent then this clown was.
Not you.
Although while you say this specific cop doesn't have a history of race issues, it does sound like the entire police force does, in general.
Maybe you should also give the investigators a call since you know so much about how it went down.
There may be past cases of intolerance,but in a community dominated mainly by one demographic of people ,with mixed in economic stagnation and a police force who is another demographic I think its easy to see where conflicts like this could be common place.Is it Selma AL in the 60s no way.Are freedoms and rights being suppressed ? no.Are random people being singled out based on color? No These areas are powder kegs of emotion.IMO its more about economics and the frustration of being trapped within this enviorment.Race just plays as an easy way to vent this built up angst as a scapegoat for the real issues .
How the hell do you know all this?
Agree with most of what RR wrote. Think it's pretty universally accepted.
A lot of it is, until you get to this part: "Are freedoms and rights being suppressed ? no.Are random people being singled out based on color? No"
Truth is, we don't know that the answers are "no". If you can't walk down the street without getting followed and questioned, or you get beaten by an over zealous cop, I would imagine that you would feel like your rights are being suppressed. And the arrest stats seem to show that black people are being singled out.
I'm not sure of the legal definition of discrimination, maybe these citizens aren't being denied jobs or education or housing based on their skin color, but if you feel like you are being harrassed and not given a fair shake, because you are a certain color, that has to be some sort of discrimination, right?
Sort of like sexual harassment.., it's basically harassment if the victim feels harassed. It's obvious that these people feel harassed based on their skin color.
Yeah had issues with those lines as well. But in end if all were part of the bounty would be better.
Blackredyellow, Lets not forget he was hassled because he was walking down the middle of the fucking road,being a belligerent cocky asshole to the cop while holding a handful of stolen goods which he just strong armed robbed from a hard working fellow member of his community.So random targeting based on color holds zero weight here.Stick with facts
Not sure who you are directing this post. We don't know facts but if I was a betting man would wager the dude was being a dick BUT demonstrations are about race. And understandably so.
Not you Callen,I was responding to Blackredyellow.sorry
Dosent Holders presence in and of itself play right into the crowd mentality of guilt by accusation.Why this issue for the glorious presences of Holder. If this cop gets a fair shake I'd be surprised.Its a no win for DA and the Federal Gov should NOT be involved here.There is no pre established racially motivated actions,nor does the cop have a history of race issue.This is a local issue.Elected local officials should be dealing with this.It does not reach a Civil Rights violation.Not a federal issue and would be a slippery slope if they take it.
We must be reading different news. Also rr I'm still waiting for a link talking about the dozens of witnesses backing the cops version of the events.
2. Black people account for most arrests in Ferguson
Last year, black residents accounted for 86% of the vehicle stops made by Ferguson police and nearly 93% of the arrests made from those stops, according to the state attorney general. FBI statistics show that 85% of the people arrested by Ferguson police are black, and that 92% of people arrested specifically for disorderly conduct are black.
But 65% of the population in Ferguson is black. And only 6% of their police force is black. Ummmm...... I think I see a bit of a problem here.
Stats on how many qualified black applicants tried for employment within the dept would be helpful.How many officers do they employ?Is there a hiring practice issue(different discussion).State police and county don't have the same demographically challenged issues do they?
It's kind of a never ending circle though... If you are an 18 year old black kid who grew up in a town where you felt like the cops were assholes and everyone told you that the cops were assholes, would you want to be a cop?
The black community as a whole share some blame though... in this whole thing, the older (35+) black residents seem the most sympathetic in this whole thing... they are cleaning up the streets in the morning, they are the business owners, they are offering to care for children who's schools are still closed, they want their families to have a better future, etc., but I saw last night that in the last local election, only 6% of the black population voted (17% of white). If things are that corrupt and that racist in the town, maybe they should have spent some of their energy in recent years mobilizing to change that by running for local office, or supporting minority candidates. With only 17% of white people voting, the black community could easily sweep a local election if they pushed voter turnout.
And yet many are trashing them for using this as an opportunity to increase voter registration
Yay, I see the racist is out in force since I last checked in.
Why is this Rascist?I can't speak for others,but I hate criminals of all colors.And in THIS case I think the kid was a thug not an angel and his actions led to his demise.No color needed
Travon was way more innocent then this clown was.
Not you.
Although while you say this specific cop doesn't have a history of race issues, it does sound like the entire police force does, in general.
Maybe you should also give the investigators a call since you know so much about how it went down.
These areas are powder kegs of emotion.IMO its more about economics and the frustration of being trapped within this enviorment.Race just plays as an easy way to vent this built up angst as a scapegoat for the real issues .
How the hell do you know all this?
Agree with most of what RR wrote. Think it's pretty universally accepted.
A lot of it is, until you get to this part: "Are freedoms and rights being suppressed ? no.Are random people being singled out based on color? No"
Truth is, we don't know that the answers are "no". If you can't walk down the street without getting followed and questioned, or you get beaten by an over zealous cop, I would imagine that you would feel like your rights are being suppressed. And the arrest stats seem to show that black people are being singled out.
I'm not sure of the legal definition of discrimination, maybe these citizens aren't being denied jobs or education or housing based on their skin color, but if you feel like you are being harrassed and not given a fair shake, because you are a certain color, that has to be some sort of discrimination, right?
Sort of like sexual harassment.., it's basically harassment if the victim feels harassed. It's obvious that these people feel harassed based on their skin color.
Yeah had issues with those lines as well. But in end if all were part of the bounty would be better.
Blackredyellow, Lets not forget he was hassled because he was walking down the middle of the fucking road,being a belligerent cocky asshole to the cop while holding a handful of stolen goods which he just strong armed robbed from a hard working fellow member of his community.So random targeting based on color holds zero weight here.Stick with facts
Exactly stick with the facts. None of what you wrote here are facts. They maybe true but we don't know that yet.
Kid on film robbing store=fact Walking in road witnessed by everyone=fact Mouthing off to cop witnessed by many=fact Had cigars on him=fact Only thing that is conjecture is he wasn't singled out.
Are these the same dozens of witnesses you referenced hearing about on CNN? I've heard other witnesses say different, but I'm not claiming that what they have said is fact.
As far as the robbery goes, we still don't know the facts surrounding that. Only what the police have stated, which as has been shown before, they are not above reproach. I have not yet heard audio to that video, but maybe there is no audio.
My point is I am not going to believe what the cops have said yet. Until they provide some proof.
Herein lies the problem: you have this backwards. The cops do not have the burden of proving Wilson acted appropriately- unless he is charged and to his defence. The current investigation will try to determine whether excessive force was used and in the event this is established... it is up to the people to demonstrate such by proving it.
This forum consistently demands that people enjoy the rights afforded to them by law. Hell, half the damn community insisted we treat the Boston bombers with dignity and fairness- citing they were innocent until proven guilty. Yet... here... a cop kills a 'gentle giant' in a close quarter confrontation and some of the same people are demanding the cop's head on a platter before due process.
And, without video evidence... it might come down to word vs. word. If this is the case, who are you inclined to believe?
I have no problem with what you are saying here. I have a problem with people claiming things as fact when they have not been proven as such yet.
I think the cop should have his due process. I may think the process is probably rigged in his favour given that the police generally investigate each other in these matters, friends investigating friends, but that is an issue for another thread.
I can only assume that they will take into account all the eye witnesses at the scene and see if they match the forensic evidence, this includes the officer in question. I do not take a cops statement with any more validity than a witnesses statement, especially when the cop is involved in said incident.
Dosent Holders presence in and of itself play right into the crowd mentality of guilt by accusation.Why this issue for the glorious presences of Holder. If this cop gets a fair shake I'd be surprised.Its a no win for DA and the Federal Gov should NOT be involved here.There is no pre established racially motivated actions,nor does the cop have a history of race issue.This is a local issue.Elected local officials should be dealing with this.It does not reach a Civil Rights violation.Not a federal issue and would be a slippery slope if they take it.
We must be reading different news. Also rr I'm still waiting for a link talking about the dozens of witnesses backing the cops version of the events.
2. Black people account for most arrests in Ferguson
Last year, black residents accounted for 86% of the vehicle stops made by Ferguson police and nearly 93% of the arrests made from those stops, according to the state attorney general. FBI statistics show that 85% of the people arrested by Ferguson police are black, and that 92% of people arrested specifically for disorderly conduct are black.
But 65% of the population in Ferguson is black. And only 6% of their police force is black. Ummmm...... I think I see a bit of a problem here.
Stats on how many qualified black applicants tried for employment within the dept would be helpful.How many officers do they employ?Is there a hiring practice issue(different discussion).State police and county don't have the same demographically challenged issues do they?
It's kind of a never ending circle though... If you are an 18 year old black kid who grew up in a town where you felt like the cops were assholes and everyone told you that the cops were assholes, would you want to be a cop?
The black community as a whole share some blame though... in this whole thing, the older (35+) black residents seem the most sympathetic in this whole thing... they are cleaning up the streets in the morning, they are the business owners, they are offering to care for children who's schools are still closed, they want their families to have a better future, etc., but I saw last night that in the last local election, only 6% of the black population voted (17% of white). If things are that corrupt and that racist in the town, maybe they should have spent some of their energy in recent years mobilizing to change that by running for local office, or supporting minority candidates. With only 17% of white people voting, the black community could easily sweep a local election if they pushed voter turnout.
And yet many are trashing them for using this as an opportunity to increase voter registration
I really can't think of any reason that isn't a good reason/opportunity to increase voter registration. It just sounds like an accusation that people from opposing viewpoints throw around to make themselves feel better.
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
Yay, I see the racist is out in force since I last checked in.
Why is this Rascist?I can't speak for others,but I hate criminals of all colors.And in THIS case I think the kid was a thug not an angel and his actions led to his demise.No color needed
Travon was way more innocent then this clown was.
Not you.
Although while you say this specific cop doesn't have a history of race issues, it does sound like the entire police force does, in general.
Maybe you should also give the investigators a call since you know so much about how it went down.
These areas are powder kegs of emotion.IMO its more about economics and the frustration of being trapped within this enviorment.Race just plays as an easy way to vent this built up angst as a scapegoat for the real issues .
How the hell do you know all this?
Agree with most of what RR wrote. Think it's pretty universally accepted.
A lot of it is, until you get to this part: "Are freedoms and rights being suppressed ? no.Are random people being singled out based on color? No"
Truth is, we don't know that the answers are "no". If you can't walk down the street without getting followed and questioned, or you get beaten by an over zealous cop, I would imagine that you would feel like your rights are being suppressed. And the arrest stats seem to show that black people are being singled out.
I'm not sure of the legal definition of discrimination, maybe these citizens aren't being denied jobs or education or housing based on their skin color, but if you feel like you are being harrassed and not given a fair shake, because you are a certain color, that has to be some sort of discrimination, right?
Sort of like sexual harassment.., it's basically harassment if the victim feels harassed. It's obvious that these people feel harassed based on their skin color.
Yeah had issues with those lines as well. But in end if all were part of the bounty would be better.
Blackredyellow, Lets not forget he was hassled because he was walking down the middle of the fucking road,being a belligerent cocky asshole to the cop while holding a handful of stolen goods which he just strong armed robbed from a hard working fellow member of his community.So random targeting based on color holds zero weight here.Stick with facts
Exactly stick with the facts. None of what you wrote here are facts. They maybe true but we don't know that yet.
Kid on film robbing store=fact Walking in road witnessed by everyone=fact Mouthing off to cop witnessed by many=fact Had cigars on him=fact Only thing that is conjecture is he wasn't singled out.
Are these the same dozens of witnesses you referenced hearing about on CNN? I've heard other witnesses say different, but I'm not claiming that what they have said is fact.
As far as the robbery goes, we still don't know the facts surrounding that. Only what the police have stated, which as has been shown before, they are not above reproach. I have not yet heard audio to that video, but maybe there is no audio.
My point is I am not going to believe what the cops have said yet. Until they provide some proof.
Herein lies the problem: you have this backwards. The cops do not have the burden of proving Wilson acted appropriately- unless he is charged and to his defence. The current investigation will try to determine whether excessive force was used and in the event this is established... it is up to the people to demonstrate such by proving it.
This forum consistently demands that people enjoy the rights afforded to them by law. Hell, half the damn community insisted we treat the Boston bombers with dignity and fairness- citing they were innocent until proven guilty. Yet... here... a cop kills a 'gentle giant' in a close quarter confrontation and some of the same people are demanding the cop's head on a platter before due process.
And, without video evidence... it might come down to word vs. word. If this is the case, who are you inclined to believe?
I have no problem with what you are saying here. I have a problem with people claiming things as fact when they have not been proven as such yet.
I think the cop should have his due process. I may think the process is probably rigged in his favour given that the police generally investigate each other in these matters, friends investigating friends, but that is an issue for another thread.
I can only assume that they will take into account all the eye witnesses at the scene and see if they match the forensic evidence, this includes the officer in question. I do not take a cops statement with any more validity than a witnesses statement, especially when the cop is involved in said incident.
I agree that an outside agency should be the ones to investigate this incident.
I agree that the statement by the involved officer is subject to question.
I disagree with the broad based assertion that a police officer's statement is on par with that of any average joe on the street. While there certainly have been examples of deceit in police testimony (as there have been in any profession), I give them more credit and respect than that.
cops need to be video recorded as they go about their jobs, and that goes for everyone's protection, the cop included. This solves almost every problem with police brutality and the he said she said that follows. Again, they can afford armored vehicles and military weapons but not surveillance?? I think that any officer who kills an unarmed citizen should be removed from "street duty"...not based on the assumption that they have done "something wrong" but based on the psychological damage that follows..2 psych evals from industry buddies doesnt provide much confidence. Case in point: Canton, OH..an officer caught on cruiser cam pulls gun on non-aggressive concealed carrier and says (paraphrase) "i should fucking shoot you in the head". Man sues department, cop keeps his job. The reason?? The cop suffered traumatic experiences on the job that led to his behavior. Somehow, he is psychologically cleared to brandish a firearm during the exact same time as he successfully defends himself using pyschological trauma. Make sense? Of course not, but thats what happens with any industry trusted to self-regulate, it is a completely moronic idea at its core.
Just to give people some insight on how far the police are overstepping their boundries in this town, here are some tweets about the Police apparently raiding a church that has served as a sanctuary for protesters with food/supplies:
jelani cobb @jelani9 · 14m At Greater St Mark Church. Witnesses say police came to the building which was being used as aid station for protestors. #Ferguson
jelani cobb @jelani9 · 13m Police are gone, pastor of the church said they'd surrounded the building re charge that ppl were sleeping inside. #Ferguson
jelani cobb @jelani9 · 9m Pastor Tommie Pierson confirmed police entered church building. Unconfirmed reports that police removed materials. #Ferguson
jelani cobb @jelani9 · 8m Church was used as center to treat people exposed to tear gas or needing med treatment. Police alleged it was used as shelter. #Ferguson
jelani cobb @jelani9 · 4m Church leadership adamant that no one was sleeping here overnight. Church was allowing ppl to have strategy meetings here. #Ferguson
jelani cobb @jelani9 · 2m Tommie Pierson, pastor of the church, is also a state rep. Saw police on the premises. #Ferguson
jelani cobb @jelani9 5m Organizers saying this is the 3rd time police have come here. Last night they had assault weapons. #Ferguson
Raiding a church? Just seem like blatant harassment.
If this is what they are doing while the world is watching, I can only imagine what they do when we aren't.
I'm sure the religious right will speak out about this.... /sarcasm
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
Yay, I see the racist is out in force since I last checked in.
Why is this Rascist?I can't speak for others,but I hate criminals of all colors.And in THIS case I think the kid was a thug not an angel and his actions led to his demise.No color needed
Travon was way more innocent then this clown was.
Not you.
Although while you say this specific cop doesn't have a history of race issues, it does sound like the entire police force does, in general.
Maybe you should also give the investigators a call since you know so much about how it went down.
These areas are powder kegs of emotion.IMO its more about economics and the frustration of being trapped within this enviorment.Race just plays as an easy way to vent this built up angst as a scapegoat for the real issues .
How the hell do you know all this?
Agree with most of what RR wrote. Think it's pretty universally accepted.
A lot of it is, until you get to this part: "Are freedoms and rights being suppressed ? no.Are random people being singled out based on color? No"
Truth is, we don't know that the answers are "no". If you can't walk down the street without getting followed and questioned, or you get beaten by an over zealous cop, I would imagine that you would feel like your rights are being suppressed. And the arrest stats seem to show that black people are being singled out.
I'm not sure of the legal definition of discrimination, maybe these citizens aren't being denied jobs or education or housing based on their skin color, but if you feel like you are being harrassed and not given a fair shake, because you are a certain color, that has to be some sort of discrimination, right?
Sort of like sexual harassment.., it's basically harassment if the victim feels harassed. It's obvious that these people feel harassed based on their skin color.
Yeah had issues with those lines as well. But in end if all were part of the bounty would be better.
Blackredyellow, Lets not forget he was hassled because he was walking down the middle of the fucking road,being a belligerent cocky asshole to the cop while holding a handful of stolen goods which he just strong armed robbed from a hard working fellow member of his community.So random targeting based on color holds zero weight here.Stick with facts
Exactly stick with the facts. None of what you wrote here are facts. They maybe true but we don't know that yet.
Kid on film robbing store=fact Walking in road witnessed by everyone=fact Mouthing off to cop witnessed by many=fact Had cigars on him=fact Only thing that is conjecture is he wasn't singled out.
Are these the same dozens of witnesses you referenced hearing about on CNN? I've heard other witnesses say different, but I'm not claiming that what they have said is fact.
As far as the robbery goes, we still don't know the facts surrounding that. Only what the police have stated, which as has been shown before, they are not above reproach. I have not yet heard audio to that video, but maybe there is no audio.
My point is I am not going to believe what the cops have said yet. Until they provide some proof.
Herein lies the problem: you have this backwards. The cops do not have the burden of proving Wilson acted appropriately- unless he is charged and to his defence. The current investigation will try to determine whether excessive force was used and in the event this is established... it is up to the people to demonstrate such by proving it.
This forum consistently demands that people enjoy the rights afforded to them by law. Hell, half the damn community insisted we treat the Boston bombers with dignity and fairness- citing they were innocent until proven guilty. Yet... here... a cop kills a 'gentle giant' in a close quarter confrontation and some of the same people are demanding the cop's head on a platter before due process.
And, without video evidence... it might come down to word vs. word. If this is the case, who are you inclined to believe?
I have no problem with what you are saying here. I have a problem with people claiming things as fact when they have not been proven as such yet.
I think the cop should have his due process. I may think the process is probably rigged in his favour given that the police generally investigate each other in these matters, friends investigating friends, but that is an issue for another thread.
I can only assume that they will take into account all the eye witnesses at the scene and see if they match the forensic evidence, this includes the officer in question. I do not take a cops statement with any more validity than a witnesses statement, especially when the cop is involved in said incident.
I agree that an outside agency should be the ones to investigate this incident.
I agree that the statement by the involved officer is subject to question.
I disagree with the broad based assertion that a police officer's statement is on par with that of any average joe on the street. While there certainly have been examples of deceit in police testimony (as there have been in any profession), I give them more credit and respect than that.
Yay, I see the racist is out in force since I last checked in.
Why is this Rascist?I can't speak for others,but I hate criminals of all colors.And in THIS case I think the kid was a thug not an angel and his actions led to his demise.No color needed
Travon was way more innocent then this clown was.
Not you.
Although while you say this specific cop doesn't have a history of race issues, it does sound like the entire police force does, in general.
Maybe you should also give the investigators a call since you know so much about how it went down.
These areas are powder kegs of emotion.IMO its more about economics and the frustration of being trapped within this enviorment.Race just plays as an easy way to vent this built up angst as a scapegoat for the real issues .
How the hell do you know all this?
Agree with most of what RR wrote. Think it's pretty universally accepted.
A lot of it is, until you get to this part: "Are freedoms and rights being suppressed ? no.Are random people being singled out based on color? No"
Truth is, we don't know that the answers are "no". If you can't walk down the street without getting followed and questioned, or you get beaten by an over zealous cop, I would imagine that you would feel like your rights are being suppressed. And the arrest stats seem to show that black people are being singled out.
I'm not sure of the legal definition of discrimination, maybe these citizens aren't being denied jobs or education or housing based on their skin color, but if you feel like you are being harrassed and not given a fair shake, because you are a certain color, that has to be some sort of discrimination, right?
Sort of like sexual harassment.., it's basically harassment if the victim feels harassed. It's obvious that these people feel harassed based on their skin color.
Yeah had issues with those lines as well. But in end if all were part of the bounty would be better.
Blackredyellow, Lets not forget he was hassled because he was walking down the middle of the fucking road,being a belligerent cocky asshole to the cop while holding a handful of stolen goods which he just strong armed robbed from a hard working fellow member of his community.So random targeting based on color holds zero weight here.Stick with facts
Exactly stick with the facts. None of what you wrote here are facts. They maybe true but we don't know that yet.
Kid on film robbing store=fact Walking in road witnessed by everyone=fact Mouthing off to cop witnessed by many=fact Had cigars on him=fact Only thing that is conjecture is he wasn't singled out.
Are these the same dozens of witnesses you referenced hearing about on CNN? I've heard other witnesses say different, but I'm not claiming that what they have said is fact.
As far as the robbery goes, we still don't know the facts surrounding that. Only what the police have stated, which as has been shown before, they are not above reproach. I have not yet heard audio to that video, but maybe there is no audio.
My point is I am not going to believe what the cops have said yet. Until they provide some proof.
Herein lies the problem: you have this backwards. The cops do not have the burden of proving Wilson acted appropriately- unless he is charged and to his defence. The current investigation will try to determine whether excessive force was used and in the event this is established... it is up to the people to demonstrate such by proving it.
This forum consistently demands that people enjoy the rights afforded to them by law. Hell, half the damn community insisted we treat the Boston bombers with dignity and fairness- citing they were innocent until proven guilty. Yet... here... a cop kills a 'gentle giant' in a close quarter confrontation and some of the same people are demanding the cop's head on a platter before due process.
And, without video evidence... it might come down to word vs. word. If this is the case, who are you inclined to believe?
I have no problem with what you are saying here. I have a problem with people claiming things as fact when they have not been proven as such yet.
I think the cop should have his due process. I may think the process is probably rigged in his favour given that the police generally investigate each other in these matters, friends investigating friends, but that is an issue for another thread.
I can only assume that they will take into account all the eye witnesses at the scene and see if they match the forensic evidence, this includes the officer in question. I do not take a cops statement with any more validity than a witnesses statement, especially when the cop is involved in said incident.
I agree that an outside agency should be the ones to investigate this incident.
I agree that the statement by the involved officer is subject to question.
I disagree with the broad based assertion that a police officer's statement is on par with that of any average joe on the street. While there certainly have been examples of deceit in police testimony (as there have been in any profession), I give them more credit and respect than that.
Yay, I see the racist is out in force since I last checked in.
Why is this Rascist?I can't speak for others,but I hate criminals of all colors.And in THIS case I think the kid was a thug not an angel and his actions led to his demise.No color needed
Travon was way more innocent then this clown was.
Not you.
Although while you say this specific cop doesn't have a history of race issues, it does sound like the entire police force does, in general.
Maybe you should also give the investigators a call since you know so much about how it went down.
These areas are powder kegs of emotion.IMO its more about economics and the frustration of being trapped within this enviorment.Race just plays as an easy way to vent this built up angst as a scapegoat for the real issues .
How the hell do you know all this?
Agree with most of what RR wrote. Think it's pretty universally accepted.
A lot of it is, until you get to this part: "Are freedoms and rights being suppressed ? no.Are random people being singled out based on color? No"
Truth is, we don't know that the answers are "no". If you can't walk down the street without getting followed and questioned, or you get beaten by an over zealous cop, I would imagine that you would feel like your rights are being suppressed. And the arrest stats seem to show that black people are being singled out.
I'm not sure of the legal definition of discrimination, maybe these citizens aren't being denied jobs or education or housing based on their skin color, but if you feel like you are being harrassed and not given a fair shake, because you are a certain color, that has to be some sort of discrimination, right?
Sort of like sexual harassment.., it's basically harassment if the victim feels harassed. It's obvious that these people feel harassed based on their skin color.
Yeah had issues with those lines as well. But in end if all were part of the bounty would be better.
Blackredyellow, Lets not forget he was hassled because he was walking down the middle of the fucking road,being a belligerent cocky asshole to the cop while holding a handful of stolen goods which he just strong armed robbed from a hard working fellow member of his community.So random targeting based on color holds zero weight here.Stick with facts
Exactly stick with the facts. None of what you wrote here are facts. They maybe true but we don't know that yet.
Kid on film robbing store=fact Walking in road witnessed by everyone=fact Mouthing off to cop witnessed by many=fact Had cigars on him=fact Only thing that is conjecture is he wasn't singled out.
Are these the same dozens of witnesses you referenced hearing about on CNN? I've heard other witnesses say different, but I'm not claiming that what they have said is fact.
As far as the robbery goes, we still don't know the facts surrounding that. Only what the police have stated, which as has been shown before, they are not above reproach. I have not yet heard audio to that video, but maybe there is no audio.
My point is I am not going to believe what the cops have said yet. Until they provide some proof.
Herein lies the problem: you have this backwards. The cops do not have the burden of proving Wilson acted appropriately- unless he is charged and to his defence. The current investigation will try to determine whether excessive force was used and in the event this is established... it is up to the people to demonstrate such by proving it.
This forum consistently demands that people enjoy the rights afforded to them by law. Hell, half the damn community insisted we treat the Boston bombers with dignity and fairness- citing they were innocent until proven guilty. Yet... here... a cop kills a 'gentle giant' in a close quarter confrontation and some of the same people are demanding the cop's head on a platter before due process.
And, without video evidence... it might come down to word vs. word. If this is the case, who are you inclined to believe?
I have no problem with what you are saying here. I have a problem with people claiming things as fact when they have not been proven as such yet.
I think the cop should have his due process. I may think the process is probably rigged in his favour given that the police generally investigate each other in these matters, friends investigating friends, but that is an issue for another thread.
I can only assume that they will take into account all the eye witnesses at the scene and see if they match the forensic evidence, this includes the officer in question. I do not take a cops statement with any more validity than a witnesses statement, especially when the cop is involved in said incident.
I agree that an outside agency should be the ones to investigate this incident.
I agree that the statement by the involved officer is subject to question.
I disagree with the broad based assertion that a police officer's statement is on par with that of any average joe on the street. While there certainly have been examples of deceit in police testimony (as there have been in any profession), I give them more credit and respect than that.</blockquote
so anybody with a badge is more crediblle than you!? Youre just a joe off the street, not a copper, so they are more credible? Hardly!
Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
0
Options
hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
Why are some things accepted as fact and others aren't?
(and not that I should have to quantify anything, but I'm neither religious nor "right")
cops need to be video recorded as they go about their jobs, and that goes for everyone's protection, the cop included. This solves almost every problem with police brutality and the he said she said that follows. Again, they can afford armored vehicles and military weapons but not surveillance?? I think that any officer who kills an unarmed citizen should be removed from "street duty"...not based on the assumption that they have done "something wrong" but based on the psychological damage that follows..2 psych evals from industry buddies doesnt provide much confidence. Case in point: Canton, OH..an officer caught on cruiser cam pulls gun on non-aggressive concealed carrier and says (paraphrase) "i should fucking shoot you in the head". Man sues department, cop keeps his job. The reason?? The cop suffered traumatic experiences on the job that led to his behavior. Somehow, he is psychologically cleared to brandish a firearm during the exact same time as he successfully defends himself using pyschological trauma. Make sense? Of course not, but thats what happens with any industry trusted to self-regulate, it is a completely moronic idea at its core.
I posted this in the police abuse thread and it is relevant here also.
NYPD urged to step up body-worn camera pilot after chokehold death Amid accusations of excessive force and increasing civilian video of police activity, New York officers may wear cameras while on duty
The most cited study of the effects of body-worn cameras on policing is Cambridge University’s examination of the police department in Rialto, California. After cameras were introduced in February 2012, officers’ use of force dropped 59%, and complaints against officers plummeted by 88%.
cops need to be video recorded as they go about their jobs, and that goes for everyone's protection, the cop included. This solves almost every problem with police brutality and the he said she said that follows. Again, they can afford armored vehicles and military weapons but not surveillance?? I think that any officer who kills an unarmed citizen should be removed from "street duty"...not based on the assumption that they have done "something wrong" but based on the psychological damage that follows..2 psych evals from industry buddies doesnt provide much confidence. Case in point: Canton, OH..an officer caught on cruiser cam pulls gun on non-aggressive concealed carrier and says (paraphrase) "i should fucking shoot you in the head". Man sues department, cop keeps his job. The reason?? The cop suffered traumatic experiences on the job that led to his behavior. Somehow, he is psychologically cleared to brandish a firearm during the exact same time as he successfully defends himself using pyschological trauma. Make sense? Of course not, but thats what happens with any industry trusted to self-regulate, it is a completely moronic idea at its core.
I posted this in the police abuse thread and it is relevant here also.
NYPD urged to step up body-worn camera pilot after chokehold death Amid accusations of excessive force and increasing civilian video of police activity, New York officers may wear cameras while on duty
The most cited study of the effects of body-worn cameras on policing is Cambridge University’s examination of the police department in Rialto, California. After cameras were introduced in February 2012, officers’ use of force dropped 59%, and complaints against officers plummeted by 88%.
59% reduction in use of force...that implies that more than half the time an officer gets physical it is unwarranted, and excessive. There is your quantitative data on how poorly police perform in this country. When somebody is watching they find ways to solve problems with out strong arming civillians.
i really can't believe some of the things i'm reading here
and some of you wonder why african americans distrust cops so much?
Exactly.... kinda shocks me that someone could even be a Pearl Jam fan and say some of the things I've read in here... Apparently they listen to PJ music, but don't actually hear it....
Are you fucking serious? That's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read on these boards. Because some people feel differently than you about an issue, now they don't understand PJ's music???? Wow. This has nothing to do with PJ.
I didn't quote you or anyone else for that matter. It was a personal opinion on some racist crap spewing from a couple of posts.
And hell yes I meant it.. If you don't understand the difference between expressing an opinion and out right racial stereotype bullshit then I'm sorry, but when some idiot on here says they are a Pearl Jam fan and in the next sentence say there is more BLACK ON BLACK CRIME IN AMERICA THAN WHITE ON WHITE and how it's okay to Militarize Police.. then yes in my opinion they don't understand what WTF PJ music is about..
"The heart and mind are the true lens of the camera." - Yusuf Karsh
Dosent Holders presence in and of itself play right into the crowd mentality of guilt by accusation.Why this issue for the glorious presences of Holder. If this cop gets a fair shake I'd be surprised.Its a no win for DA and the Federal Gov should NOT be involved here.There is no pre established racially motivated actions,nor does the cop have a history of race issue.This is a local issue.Elected local officials should be dealing with this.It does not reach a Civil Rights violation.Not a federal issue and would be a slippery slope if they take it.
We must be reading different news. Also rr I'm still waiting for a link talking about the dozens of witnesses backing the cops version of the events.
2. Black people account for most arrests in Ferguson
Last year, black residents accounted for 86% of the vehicle stops made by Ferguson police and nearly 93% of the arrests made from those stops, according to the state attorney general. FBI statistics show that 85% of the people arrested by Ferguson police are black, and that 92% of people arrested specifically for disorderly conduct are black.
ever been to the st. louis area? just curious. by far more blacks than whites.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
0
Options
hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
I'm all for those reductions - but drawing a conclusion about the police across the country based on this study applying to one police force of how many officers?
And...I wonder if the reduction is in part due to those interacting with the police knowing they'll be on camera as well.
Trying to look at this from as many sides as possible.
Dosent Holders presence in and of itself play right into the crowd mentality of guilt by accusation.Why this issue for the glorious presences of Holder. If this cop gets a fair shake I'd be surprised.Its a no win for DA and the Federal Gov should NOT be involved here.There is no pre established racially motivated actions,nor does the cop have a history of race issue.This is a local issue.Elected local officials should be dealing with this.It does not reach a Civil Rights violation.Not a federal issue and would be a slippery slope if they take it.
We must be reading different news. Also rr I'm still waiting for a link talking about the dozens of witnesses backing the cops version of the events.
2. Black people account for most arrests in Ferguson
Last year, black residents accounted for 86% of the vehicle stops made by Ferguson police and nearly 93% of the arrests made from those stops, according to the state attorney general. FBI statistics show that 85% of the people arrested by Ferguson police are black, and that 92% of people arrested specifically for disorderly conduct are black.
ever been to the st. louis area? just curious. by far more blacks than whites.
No I haven't. Despite all the bad news coming from there as of late I would love to go see that part of the country and will eventually. Might take a PJ concert.
In the same article they say that 67% of the population is african american. Judge from the numbers what you will, I'm just throwing them out there.
I'm all for those reductions - but drawing a conclusion about the police across the country based on this study applying to one police force of how many officers?
And...I wonder if the reduction is in part due to those interacting with the police knowing they'll be on camera as well.
Trying to look at this from as many sides as possible.
i see what you are saying and i like your diplomatic approach, but i really dont think it is any more complicated than better behavior when somebody is watching...il accept that some of that percentage is from civillians knowing they are on camera, but the result is the same, lower rates of force and resistance. Of course, until this is widely employed we cant know for sure, but I'd bet the farm the vast majority of depts would show numbers in a 20% range of those two figures.
I'm all for those reductions - but drawing a conclusion about the police across the country based on this study applying to one police force of how many officers?
And...I wonder if the reduction is in part due to those interacting with the police knowing they'll be on camera as well.
Trying to look at this from as many sides as possible.
Fair to ask those questions. Either way I don't see how this type of thing shouldn't be implemented everywhere.
I would be real interested in seeing the results.
Like rgambs said, if they can afford tanks why couldn't they afford to do this?
Dosent Holders presence in and of itself play right into the crowd mentality of guilt by accusation.Why this issue for the glorious presences of Holder. If this cop gets a fair shake I'd be surprised.Its a no win for DA and the Federal Gov should NOT be involved here.There is no pre established racially motivated actions,nor does the cop have a history of race issue.This is a local issue.Elected local officials should be dealing with this.It does not reach a Civil Rights violation.Not a federal issue and would be a slippery slope if they take it.
We must be reading different news. Also rr I'm still waiting for a link talking about the dozens of witnesses backing the cops version of the events.
2. Black people account for most arrests in Ferguson
Last year, black residents accounted for 86% of the vehicle stops made by Ferguson police and nearly 93% of the arrests made from those stops, according to the state attorney general. FBI statistics show that 85% of the people arrested by Ferguson police are black, and that 92% of people arrested specifically for disorderly conduct are black.
But 65% of the population in Ferguson is black. And only 6% of their police force is black. Ummmm...... I think I see a bit of a problem here.
Stats on how many qualified black applicants tried for employment within the dept would be helpful.How many officers do they employ?Is there a hiring practice issue(different discussion).State police and county don't have the same demographically challenged issues do they?
There are 53 officers on the Ferguson police force and only 3 of them are black (or 4 - for some reason that number is unclear), and every single other cop is white. There is not a single other ethnicity represented in the force. So we're talking local police force.... however, almost all of Missouri is white - it's like Ferguson is where all the black people are - so the stats for the state police are similar, but much less meaningful. According to the Ferguson police, this massive discrepancy is due to the fact that all the black people in Ferguson have an ongoing distrust of the police force and therefore don't want to be on it. I'd say that statement reenforces the idea that the police force has problems related to racial relations, and that's under the very dubious assumption that the police chief is telling the truth (or is even capable of recognizing if there is a problem). It doesn't explain anything away at all.
Another interesting fact: "Missouri law requires the state’s attorney general to issue an annual Vehicle Stops Report detailing demographic information for people pulled over by officers in each city. In 2013, the attorney general’s office reported that black drivers in Ferguson were about twice as likely to be arrested after police stops than whites. Blacks made up 93 percent of 2013 arrests after car stops." (politifact.com)
Thanks for the numbers PJ.It does seem its a bit lopsided
I'm all for those reductions - but drawing a conclusion about the police across the country based on this study applying to one police force of how many officers?
And...I wonder if the reduction is in part due to those interacting with the police knowing they'll be on camera as well.
Trying to look at this from as many sides as possible.
Fair to ask those questions. Either way I don't see how this type of thing shouldn't be implemented everywhere.
I would be real interested in seeing the results.
Like rgambs said, if they can afford tanks why couldn't they afford to do this?
I don't really see a downside to it, much like with many (most?) police cars being fitted with dash-cams.
cops need to be video recorded as they go about their jobs, and that goes for everyone's protection, the cop included. This solves almost every problem with police brutality and the he said she said that follows. Again, they can afford armored vehicles and military weapons but not surveillance?? I think that any officer who kills an unarmed citizen should be removed from "street duty"...not based on the assumption that they have done "something wrong" but based on the psychological damage that follows..2 psych evals from industry buddies doesnt provide much confidence. Case in point: Canton, OH..an officer caught on cruiser cam pulls gun on non-aggressive concealed carrier and says (paraphrase) "i should fucking shoot you in the head". Man sues department, cop keeps his job. The reason?? The cop suffered traumatic experiences on the job that led to his behavior. Somehow, he is psychologically cleared to brandish a firearm during the exact same time as he successfully defends himself using pyschological trauma. Make sense? Of course not, but thats what happens with any industry trusted to self-regulate, it is a completely moronic idea at its core.
I posted this in the police abuse thread and it is relevant here also.
NYPD urged to step up body-worn camera pilot after chokehold death Amid accusations of excessive force and increasing civilian video of police activity, New York officers may wear cameras while on duty
The most cited study of the effects of body-worn cameras on policing is Cambridge University’s examination of the police department in Rialto, California. After cameras were introduced in February 2012, officers’ use of force dropped 59%, and complaints against officers plummeted by 88%.
Digin,Rgambs Your both very on point with the cameras.It is that easy.None of this is happening if video footage could set the record straight.I think this should be mandatory .
Comments
As far as the robbery goes, we still don't know the facts surrounding that. Only what the police have stated, which as has been shown before, they are not above reproach. I have not yet heard audio to that video, but maybe there is no audio.
My point is I am not going to believe what the cops have said yet. Until they provide some proof.
This forum consistently demands that people enjoy the rights afforded to them by law. Hell, half the damn community insisted we treat the Boston bombers with dignity and fairness- citing they were innocent until proven guilty. Yet... here... a cop kills a 'gentle giant' in a close quarter confrontation and some of the same people are demanding the cop's head on a platter before due process.
And, without video evidence... it might come down to word vs. word. If this is the case, who are you inclined to believe?
The black community as a whole share some blame though... in this whole thing, the older (35+) black residents seem the most sympathetic in this whole thing... they are cleaning up the streets in the morning, they are the business owners, they are offering to care for children who's schools are still closed, they want their families to have a better future, etc., but I saw last night that in the last local election, only 6% of the black population voted (17% of white). If things are that corrupt and that racist in the town, maybe they should have spent some of their energy in recent years mobilizing to change that by running for local office, or supporting minority candidates. With only 17% of white people voting, the black community could easily sweep a local election if they pushed voter turnout.
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
I think the cop should have his due process. I may think the process is probably rigged in his favour given that the police generally investigate each other in these matters, friends investigating friends, but that is an issue for another thread.
I can only assume that they will take into account all the eye witnesses at the scene and see if they match the forensic evidence, this includes the officer in question. I do not take a cops statement with any more validity than a witnesses statement, especially when the cop is involved in said incident.
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
I agree that the statement by the involved officer is subject to question.
I disagree with the broad based assertion that a police officer's statement is on par with that of any average joe on the street. While there certainly have been examples of deceit in police testimony (as there have been in any profession), I give them more credit and respect than that.
I think that any officer who kills an unarmed citizen should be removed from "street duty"...not based on the assumption that they have done "something wrong" but based on the psychological damage that follows..2 psych evals from industry buddies doesnt provide much confidence.
Case in point: Canton, OH..an officer caught on cruiser cam pulls gun on non-aggressive concealed carrier and says (paraphrase) "i should fucking shoot you in the head". Man sues department, cop keeps his job. The reason?? The cop suffered traumatic experiences on the job that led to his behavior. Somehow, he is psychologically cleared to brandish a firearm during the exact same time as he successfully defends himself using pyschological trauma. Make sense? Of course not, but thats what happens with any industry trusted to self-regulate, it is a completely moronic idea at its core.
jelani cobb @jelani9 · 14m
At Greater St Mark Church. Witnesses say police came to the building which was being used as aid station for protestors. #Ferguson
jelani cobb @jelani9 · 13m
Police are gone, pastor of the church said they'd surrounded the building re charge that ppl were sleeping inside. #Ferguson
jelani cobb @jelani9 · 9m
Pastor Tommie Pierson confirmed police entered church building. Unconfirmed reports that police removed materials. #Ferguson
jelani cobb @jelani9 · 8m
Church was used as center to treat people exposed to tear gas or needing med treatment. Police alleged it was used as shelter. #Ferguson
jelani cobb @jelani9 · 4m
Church leadership adamant that no one was sleeping here overnight. Church was allowing ppl to have strategy meetings here. #Ferguson
jelani cobb @jelani9 · 2m
Tommie Pierson, pastor of the church, is also a state rep. Saw police on the premises. #Ferguson
jelani cobb @jelani9 5m
Organizers saying this is the 3rd time police have come here. Last night they had assault weapons. #Ferguson
Raiding a church? Just seem like blatant harassment.
If this is what they are doing while the world is watching, I can only imagine what they do when we aren't.
I'm sure the religious right will speak out about this.... /sarcasm
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
Not bad
(and not that I should have to quantify anything, but I'm neither religious nor "right")
What a clusterfuck.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/12/nypd-body-worn-camera-pilot-chokehold-death
NYPD urged to step up body-worn camera pilot after chokehold death
Amid accusations of excessive force and increasing civilian video of police activity, New York officers may wear cameras while on duty
The most cited study of the effects of body-worn cameras on policing is Cambridge University’s examination of the police department in Rialto, California. After cameras were introduced in February 2012, officers’ use of force dropped 59%, and complaints against officers plummeted by 88%.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
And hell yes I meant it.. If you don't understand the difference between expressing an opinion and out right racial stereotype bullshit then I'm sorry, but when some idiot on here says they are a Pearl Jam fan and in the next sentence say there is more BLACK ON BLACK CRIME IN AMERICA THAN WHITE ON WHITE and how it's okay to Militarize Police.. then yes in my opinion they don't understand what WTF PJ music is about..
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
And...I wonder if the reduction is in part due to those interacting with the police knowing they'll be on camera as well.
Trying to look at this from as many sides as possible.
In the same article they say that 67% of the population is african american. Judge from the numbers what you will, I'm just throwing them out there.
I would be real interested in seeing the results.
Like rgambs said, if they can afford tanks why couldn't they afford to do this?
arming-america-police-2014348442383391.html
Caught this on tv the other day, it was quite interesting (and sad)
Fairly reasonable cost-wise, with much to gain.
Your both very on point with the cameras.It is that easy.None of this is happening if video footage could set the record straight.I think this should be mandatory .