hopefully all firemen are carrying these days - remember that asshole who dialed 911 about a fire when there was no fire, firemen show up & he starts firing on them w/ some rifle as he thinks he's a sniper or some shit... did he also murder his own mother or something like this?
As far as "innocent until proven guilty" is concerned, the cop was almost instantly convicted in the court of public opinion. A jury can vote 12-0 in his favor, but he'll never be innocent to most of America no matter what evidence is presented based on the initial reporting. You are barking up the wrong tree thinking the police officer is getting the benefit of the doubt here.
If a large man was lunging at me, threatening me or others around me, yes shoot first. The police have the right to use deadly force. As far as overkill? Aim for the head. If I'm protecting myself, there isn't going to be a warning shot.
Except this isn't the case in America.
Glad you're not a cop though. Although you would likely be in jail if you were. Do you know how many people lunge at cops on a daily basis? Like I said on the last page, my female friend got control of a dude coming at her with an axe without shooting. This kind of thing is not a rare occurancem
Providence Police Detective Sgt. James L. Allen would argue that it can become quite serious... if he was alive to do so. At the police station, no less, he was questioning Esteban Carpio for his alleged part in the stabbing of an 85 year old woman. As fate would have it, Carpio overpowered Allen and shot him dead with his own weapon.
Carpio jumped from the window and tried to get away, but was apprehended. He was also beaten... severely. I'm sure there are many on here that would feel the cops simply should have chased him down... went to another room while the blood was being cleaned from the initial room... and the questioning should have continued. I'm not one of those people.
That's fucking tragic, no doubt. I am not arguing that. Like I said, one of my best friends is a cop. I know a ton of others. Some are good people and some are pieces of shit. It is a very dangerous job for sure. I don't see how these people have free will to use their gun on unarmed people though. Sure, things like that do happen and it is terrible but if every person who puts their hands on a cop gets killed like I said, cops would be killing people daily.
If a large man was lunging at me, threatening me or others around me, yes shoot first. The police have the right to use deadly force. As far as overkill? Aim for the head. If I'm protecting myself, there isn't going to be a warning shot.
Except this isn't the case in America.
Glad you're not a cop though. Although you would likely be in jail if you were. Do you know how many people lunge at cops on a daily basis? Like I said on the last page, my female friend got control of a dude coming at her with an axe without shooting. This kind of thing is not a rare occurancem
I'm not a cop, but I am a fireman. I deal with shitheads on a semi regular basis. Fortunately, I have not been in a situation where I've had to pull my gun on a scene. But believe me when I say that if me or my crew were in a life threatening situation, I will not hesitate to use it. As a cop, fireman, or EMS worker, you always look out for #1.
Isn't by definition getting into public service looking out for others?
Most certainly. Police, fire, and EMS all risk their lives for complete startngers on a daily and hourly basis. But make no mistake, if I can help it, I will not be threatened or made to feel threatened by the very people we are there to help.
But what is threatened? Someone looking at you wrong? When are you allowed to kill an unarmed person? I surely hope most police officers can handle a situation with an unarmed person without killing them.
If a large man was lunging at me, threatening me or others around me, yes shoot first. The police have the right to use deadly force. As far as overkill? Aim for the head. If I'm protecting myself, there isn't going to be a warning shot.
Except this isn't the case in America.
Glad you're not a cop though. Although you would likely be in jail if you were. Do you know how many people lunge at cops on a daily basis? Like I said on the last page, my female friend got control of a dude coming at her with an axe without shooting. This kind of thing is not a rare occurancem
Providence Police Detective Sgt. James L. Allen would argue that it can become quite serious... if he was alive to do so. At the police station, no less, he was questioning Esteban Carpio for his alleged part in the stabbing of an 85 year old woman. As fate would have it, Carpio overpowered Allen and shot him dead with his own weapon.
Carpio jumped from the window and tried to get away, but was apprehended. He was also beaten... severely. I'm sure there are many on here that would feel the cops simply should have chased him down... went to another room while the blood was being cleaned from the initial room... and the questioning should have continued. I'm not one of those people.
I though this contribution spoke to the precarious nature police people find themselves in when dealing with people in 'controlled' settings.
Things can go badly... quickly. How badly do things have to go before we offer police officers our support to do their work and preserve their safety?
If Allen had killed Carpio in the interrogation room, people from all over the world, deciphering through various reports, and distrustful of the cops would be labelling Allen as a murderer... saying things like: "Come on, man. You tell me how a guy detained for questioning became enough of a threat to warrant Allen killing him?"
Well cliffy, I can accept our differences in opinion here. I'm sure the one thing we can agree on is that this is a horrible tragedy. And the few assholes in Ferguson are turning what could be peaceful demonstrations into a violent and scary place to be
Well cliffy, I can accept our differences in opinion here. I'm sure the one thing we can agree on is that this is a horrible tragedy. And the few assholes in Ferguson are turning what could be peaceful demonstrations into a violent and scary place to be
The police have played no small part in making those protest more violent than they needed to be.
Well cliffy, I can accept our differences in opinion here. I'm sure the one thing we can agree on is that this is a horrible tragedy. And the few assholes in Ferguson are turning what could be peaceful demonstrations into a violent and scary place to be
The police have played no small part in making those protest more violent than they needed to be.
Yea, the police are looting and starting the fires.
Well cliffy, I can accept our differences in opinion here. I'm sure the one thing we can agree on is that this is a horrible tragedy. And the few assholes in Ferguson are turning what could be peaceful demonstrations into a violent and scary place to be
If a large man was lunging at me, threatening me or others around me, yes shoot first. The police have the right to use deadly force. As far as overkill? Aim for the head. If I'm protecting myself, there isn't going to be a warning shot.
Except this isn't the case in America.
Glad you're not a cop though. Although you would likely be in jail if you were. Do you know how many people lunge at cops on a daily basis? Like I said on the last page, my female friend got control of a dude coming at her with an axe without shooting. This kind of thing is not a rare occurancem
Providence Police Detective Sgt. James L. Allen would argue that it can become quite serious... if he was alive to do so. At the police station, no less, he was questioning Esteban Carpio for his alleged part in the stabbing of an 85 year old woman. As fate would have it, Carpio overpowered Allen and shot him dead with his own weapon.
Carpio jumped from the window and tried to get away, but was apprehended. He was also beaten... severely. I'm sure there are many on here that would feel the cops simply should have chased him down... went to another room while the blood was being cleaned from the initial room... and the questioning should have continued. I'm not one of those people.
That's fucking tragic, no doubt. I am not arguing that. Like I said, one of my best friends is a cop. I know a ton of others. Some are good people and some are pieces of shit. It is a very dangerous job for sure. I don't see how these people have free will to use their gun on unarmed people though. Sure, things like that do happen and it is terrible but if every person who puts their hands on a cop gets killed like I said, cops would be killing people daily.
It's the trust we place in them.
There can be no 'exact' triggering event that justifies deadly use of a weapon, but we have to trust their judgement as we ask them to do such a dangerous job- especially when people are trying to disarm them and in close contact.
If it is found that cops used poor judgement and abused the level of trust we have given them... then they need to be held accountable. Wilson may very well be found to have abused our trust and if so... then held accountable to the full letter of the law.
Well cliffy, I can accept our differences in opinion here. I'm sure the one thing we can agree on is that this is a horrible tragedy. And the few assholes in Ferguson are turning what could be peaceful demonstrations into a violent and scary place to be
Well cliffy, I can accept our differences in opinion here. I'm sure the one thing we can agree on is that this is a horrible tragedy. And the few assholes in Ferguson are turning what could be peaceful demonstrations into a violent and scary place to be
The police have played no small part in making those protest more violent than they needed to be.
Oh a tank rolling down the street isn't going to help a situation? Who knew?
Well cliffy, I can accept our differences in opinion here. I'm sure the one thing we can agree on is that this is a horrible tragedy. And the few assholes in Ferguson are turning what could be peaceful demonstrations into a violent and scary place to be
The police have played no small part in making those protest more violent than they needed to be.
Oh a tank rolling down the street isn't going to help a situation? Who knew?
The let's have a dialogue approach bringing in the hometown cop didn't work too well either. Let's just face the fact that there isn't going to be a riot that is handled perfectly. A riot by definition is uncontrolled chaos.
Not every cop shooting is justified, but we only see the videos where police are hurting a suspect. I would bet that for every video of a copy hitting a civilian, there are probably 50 videos of a criminal lunging at a police officer.
can we all agree that in a situation you are not going to get far when disrespecting law enforcement? you don't have to kiss their asses but blatant disregard/blatant disrespect for them including your fellow citizens is pretty ridiculous.
respect gets you everywhere. many have no idea what this concept means
Well cliffy, I can accept our differences in opinion here. I'm sure the one thing we can agree on is that this is a horrible tragedy. And the few assholes in Ferguson are turning what could be peaceful demonstrations into a violent and scary place to be
The police have played no small part in making those protest more violent than they needed to be.
Yea, the police are looting and starting the fires.
Pointing military grade weapons at innocent people.
Yelling at protesters "Bring it. All you fucking animals, bring it. I don't give a fuck"
Arresting journalists without cause.
Threatening to shoot journalists.
Tear gassing journalists and peaceful protesters.
Shooting at peaceful protesters and journalists with rubber bullets.
can we all agree that in a situation you are not going to get far when disrespecting law enforcement? you don't have to kiss their asses but blatant disregard/blatant disrespect for them including your fellow citizens is pretty ridiculous.
respect gets you everywhere. many have no idea what this concept means
how long have law enforcement in the st. louis area been awake? when they go home to rest a few hrs before more chaos working riot crap, do you think they are getting full rest? i am guessing these guys are a bit cranky right about now
Well cliffy, I can accept our differences in opinion here. I'm sure the one thing we can agree on is that this is a horrible tragedy. And the few assholes in Ferguson are turning what could be peaceful demonstrations into a violent and scary place to be
The police have played no small part in making those protest more violent than they needed to be.
Yea, the police are looting and starting the fires.
Pointing military grade weapons at innocent people.
Yelling at protesters "Bring it. All you fucking animals, bring it. I don't give a fuck"
Arresting journalists without cause.
Threatening to shoot journalists.
Tear gassing journalists and peaceful protesters.
Shooting at peaceful protesters and journalists with rubber bullets.
for the first time in 4200 years dignin & i agree on something. this is the start to a wonderful evening of debating riots & other chaotic bullshit free for alls in the summer nights of humid ass st. louis
i really can't believe some of the things i'm reading here
and some of you wonder why african americans distrust cops so much?
Exactly.... kinda shocks me that someone could even be a Pearl Jam fan and say some of the things I've read in here... Apparently they listen to PJ music, but don't actually hear it....
The shooting of Michael Brown was unfortunately the spark for a bigger issue in our country. The Pentagon has put $4.3 BILLION worth of equipment in the hands of American police forces, AND CONTINUE TO DO SO..... There is no doubt that this enhanced militaristic presence in Ferguson has added to the problem.
If we put that much fucking money into helping people instead of creating more shit that is designed to kill people and or to control people, then maybe, just maybe we might make some small strides in the right direction.
Sorry, but this has gone too far...
I hope the best for the people of Ferguson tonight.
Post edited by myoung321 on
"The heart and mind are the true lens of the camera." - Yusuf Karsh
....are we still hashing over the same stuff with out any real proof other than the kid did do crimes ? is there anything new ? every time I catch a bit on t.v it's about how bad the riot is getting but that's it, it's east to blame the cops..any facts yet ?
i really can't believe some of the things i'm reading here
and some of you wonder why african americans distrust cops so much?
Exactly.... kinda shocks me that someone could even be a Pearl Jam fan and say some of the things I've read in here... Apparently they listen to PJ music, but don't actually hear it....
The shooting of Michael Brown was unfortunately the spark for a bigger issue in our country. The Pentagon has put $4.3 BILLION worth of equipment in the hands of American police forces, AND CONTINUE TO DO SO..... There is no doubt that this enhanced militaristic presence in Ferguson has added to the problem.
If we put that much fucking money into helping people instead of creating more shit that is designed to kill people and or to control people, then maybe, just maybe we might make some small strides in the right direction.
Sorry, but this has gone too far...
I hope the best for the people of Ferguson tonight.
i really can't believe some of the things i'm reading here
and some of you wonder why african americans distrust cops so much?
Exactly.... kinda shocks me that someone could even be a Pearl Jam fan and say some of the things I've read in here... Apparently they listen to PJ music, but don't actually hear it....
Are you fucking serious? That's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read on these boards. Because some people feel differently than you about an issue, now they don't understand PJ's music???? Wow. This has nothing to do with PJ.
What happens if there is evidence the cop is innocent? I have been watching MSNBC and everyone they interview is demanding the prosecutor step down, demanding the AG take over. The people seem to demand a lot. They keep talking about the town only having 3 black cops, the mayor is white and the board of ed is all white. Well old Rev Al had an interesting stat in 2013 when there was a Presidential election 54% of the black citizens voted in 2013 only 5% if you do not like it then vote. Also if you want more black cops then apply. I can believe that there are people within the police force and town that are racist but MSNBCs guests are saying the entire town is racist. I find that hard to believe.
96 Randall's Island II
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
edited August 2014
Oy. The racist card being bandied about? Most are trying to see this based on what's been revealed so far.
From here, it has nothing to do with race but with the situation itself (it's been spelled out pretty clearly by others previously in this thread).
It's weird the AG has gotten involved in this. Already blown up. More fuel? Seems unnecessary, overkill, a bit PR-ish.
All said, it looks like a fucking mess there.
edit for DF - was referencing some earlier comments made, not in direct response to your post above mine.
7/18- Jimmie Norman, white male murdered by black male. No national news. 7/18- Terry Taylor, white male murdered by black male. No national news. 7/17- Cindy Raygoza, white female murdered by black male. No national news. 7/11- Luis Aguilar, 91 year old hispanic male murdered by black male. No national news. 7/10- Brittany Simpson, white female murdered by black male. No national news. 7/6- Sarah Goode, white female murdered by black male. No national news. 7/6- Jeffrey Westerfield, white male murdered by black male. No national news. 7/5- Perry Renn, white male murdered by black male. No national news. 7/3- Laurey Kennedy, white female still in coma from beating by black male. No national news 7/3 Eric Mollet, white male murdered by black male. No national news. 7/2 Rupert Anderson, white male murdered by black male. No national news. 7/2 Jennifer Kingeter, white female murdered by black male. No national news. 6/30 Jim Brennan, white male, murdered by black male. No national news. 6/29 Paul Shephard, white male, murdered by black male. No national news. 6/27 Shirley Barone, white female, murdered by black male. No national news. 6/27 Penelope Spencer, white female, murdered by black male. No national news. 6/27 Inga Evans, white female, murdered by black male. No national news. 6/26 Jake Rameau, white male, murdered by black male. No national news. 6/25 Gina Burger, white female, murdered by black male. No national news. 6/24 Nathan Dasher, white male, murdered by black male. No national news. 6/22 Jonathan Price, white male, murdered by black male. No national news. 6/20 John Whitmore, white male, murdered by black male. No national news. 6/18 John Yingling,white male, murdered by black male. No national news. 6/17 Allyn Reeves, white male, murdered by black male. No national news. 6/15 Michael Beaver, white male, murdered by black male. No national news. 6/11 Angela Cook, white female, murdered by black male. No national news. 6/11 Nathan Hall, white male, murdered by black male. No national news. 6/7 Harry Briggs, white male, murdered by black male. No national news. 6/5 Laura Bachman, white female, murdered by black male. No national news. 6/2 Robert Mohler, white male, murdered by black male. No national news. 6/1 William Headley, white male, murdered by black male. No national news
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
Comments
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
Things can go badly... quickly. How badly do things have to go before we offer police officers our support to do their work and preserve their safety?
If Allen had killed Carpio in the interrogation room, people from all over the world, deciphering through various reports, and distrustful of the cops would be labelling Allen as a murderer... saying things like: "Come on, man. You tell me how a guy detained for questioning became enough of a threat to warrant Allen killing him?"
There can be no 'exact' triggering event that justifies deadly use of a weapon, but we have to trust their judgement as we ask them to do such a dangerous job- especially when people are trying to disarm them and in close contact.
If it is found that cops used poor judgement and abused the level of trust we have given them... then they need to be held accountable. Wilson may very well be found to have abused our trust and if so... then held accountable to the full letter of the law.
Not every cop shooting is justified, but we only see the videos where police are hurting a suspect. I would bet that for every video of a copy hitting a civilian, there are probably 50 videos of a criminal lunging at a police officer.
respect gets you everywhere. many have no idea what this concept means
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
Yelling at protesters "Bring it. All you fucking animals, bring it. I don't give a fuck"
Arresting journalists without cause.
Threatening to shoot journalists.
Tear gassing journalists and peaceful protesters.
Shooting at peaceful protesters and journalists with rubber bullets.
Nothing to see here, just cops doing their jobs.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
The shooting of Michael Brown was unfortunately the spark for a bigger issue in our country. The Pentagon has put $4.3 BILLION worth of equipment in the hands of American police forces, AND CONTINUE TO DO SO..... There is no doubt that this enhanced militaristic presence in Ferguson has added to the problem.
If we put that much fucking money into helping people instead of creating more shit that is designed to kill people and or to control people, then maybe, just maybe we might make some small strides in the right direction.
Sorry, but this has gone too far...
I hope the best for the people of Ferguson tonight.
Godfather.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
From here, it has nothing to do with race but with the situation itself (it's been spelled out pretty clearly by others previously in this thread).
It's weird the AG has gotten involved in this. Already blown up. More fuel? Seems unnecessary, overkill, a bit PR-ish.
All said, it looks like a fucking mess there.
edit for DF - was referencing some earlier comments made, not in direct response to your post above mine.
7/18- Terry Taylor, white male murdered by black male. No national news.
7/17- Cindy Raygoza, white female murdered by black male. No national news.
7/11- Luis Aguilar, 91 year old hispanic male murdered by black male. No national news.
7/10- Brittany Simpson, white female murdered by black male. No national news.
7/6- Sarah Goode, white female murdered by black male. No national news.
7/6- Jeffrey Westerfield, white male murdered by black male. No national news.
7/5- Perry Renn, white male murdered by black male. No national news.
7/3- Laurey Kennedy, white female still in coma from beating by black male. No national news
7/3 Eric Mollet, white male murdered by black male. No national news.
7/2 Rupert Anderson, white male murdered by black male. No national news.
7/2 Jennifer Kingeter, white female murdered by black male. No national news.
6/30 Jim Brennan, white male, murdered by black male. No national news.
6/29 Paul Shephard, white male, murdered by black male. No national news.
6/27 Shirley Barone, white female, murdered by black male. No national news.
6/27 Penelope Spencer, white female, murdered by black male. No national news.
6/27 Inga Evans, white female, murdered by black male. No national news.
6/26 Jake Rameau, white male, murdered by black male. No national news.
6/25 Gina Burger, white female, murdered by black male. No national news.
6/24 Nathan Dasher, white male, murdered by black male. No national news.
6/22 Jonathan Price, white male, murdered by black male. No national news.
6/20 John Whitmore, white male, murdered by black male. No national news.
6/18 John Yingling,white male, murdered by black male. No national news.
6/17 Allyn Reeves, white male, murdered by black male. No national news.
6/15 Michael Beaver, white male, murdered by black male. No national news.
6/11 Angela Cook, white female, murdered by black male. No national news.
6/11 Nathan Hall, white male, murdered by black male. No national news.
6/7 Harry Briggs, white male, murdered by black male. No national news.
6/5 Laura Bachman, white female, murdered by black male. No national news.
6/2 Robert Mohler, white male, murdered by black male. No national news.
6/1 William Headley, white male, murdered by black male. No national news
Wish we could see circumstance vs color.
Character vs color.