hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
Being angry yes. Wanting, demanding answers, yes.
As it should be.
But what is the point of destroying parts of your community? Stealing from them, burning them? Businesses owned by the people you live among, people you're probably protesting alongside with? Not to mention violence against the police...damning all for the yet-to-be-fully-investigated actions of one?
brown robbed the store & is clutching those cigars. he & his little partner decide to calmly take a stroll down the fucking street, not the sidewalk. let's just be obvious, defiant & show everyone we are runnin the show around here. when asked to take the walk to the sidewalk by a policeman we will be as we are... runnin the show around here
good ideas these folks had
strong arming a shopkeeper & walking down the damn street. asking for trouble anyone? if you are gonna be a thug ass criminal why not use your damn brain? petty crime, yes. stupid ass bullshit
Asking for trouble or asking to be killed?
Without knowing the full story that seems to change every day... I'm not blaming the officer for what occurred quite yet.
What we do know is this guy had committed a crime, strutted down the middle of the street- essentially telling the world to go fuck themselves- defied police orders, and- likely thinking he was being detained for the robbery he just committed- resisted arrest (apparently lunging for a weapon as well).
On that note... if it is proven he lunged for the officer's weapon... what was he going to do with it? If he had shot the cop... everyone would be saying, "Why didn't the cop use his gun? What type of cop allows the detained to grab his gun and use it against him?"
From everything I have read, this case must determine exactly what threat Brown presented to the officer handling the situation. If it is established that Brown- a massive human being by all accounts- presented himself as a formidable threat that could easily overpower the officer and that he made an effort to do so... then I don't know if we should be the ones to judge whether or not excessive force was used or not. A cop, upholding the law and in a life or death situation against a criminal gets my support. Sorry.
Brown was in control of the situation to start with: 1. He didn't have to rob the store. 2. He didn't have to walk down the middle of the street demanding attention. 3. He didn't have to ignore the cops demands which were reasonable to start with. 4. He didn't have to resist arrest and lunge for a weapon.
Better judgement at any one of those moments and he likely would still be alive. In hindsight and from afar, it's easy to say what the cop should have done; but given the cop was forced to deal with the moment and make instantaneous decisions that might have cost him his life... I'm inclined to exercise a bare minimum of understanding... at least until the full story comes out.
If he reached in the car to grab for a weapon I can see a shot being justified for sure. It seems to me that the cop over reacted. I understand that it would have been a very tense situation to fight someone off who might be trying to grab your gun and shoot you. But if the witnesses are right and the kid had his hands up then that is murder.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
brown robbed the store & is clutching those cigars. he & his little partner decide to calmly take a stroll down the fucking street, not the sidewalk. let's just be obvious, defiant & show everyone we are runnin the show around here. when asked to take the walk to the sidewalk by a policeman we will be as we are... runnin the show around here
good ideas these folks had
strong arming a shopkeeper & walking down the damn street. asking for trouble anyone? if you are gonna be a thug ass criminal why not use your damn brain? petty crime, yes. stupid ass bullshit
Asking for trouble or asking to be killed?
Without knowing the full story that seems to change every day... I'm not blaming the officer for what occurred quite yet.
What we do know is this guy had committed a crime, strutted down the middle of the street- essentially telling the world to go fuck themselves- defied police orders, and- likely thinking he was being detained for the robbery he just committed- resisted arrest (apparently lunging for a weapon as well).
On that note... if it is proven he lunged for the officer's weapon... what was he going to do with it? If he had shot the cop... everyone would be saying, "Why didn't the cop use his gun? What type of cop allows the detained to grab his gun and use it against him?"
From everything I have read, this case must determine exactly what threat Brown presented to the officer handling the situation. If it is established that Brown- a massive human being by all accounts- presented himself as a formidable threat that could easily overpower the officer and that he made an effort to do so... then I don't know if we should be the ones to judge whether or not excessive force was used or not. A cop, upholding the law and in a life or death situation against a criminal gets my support. Sorry.
Brown was in control of the situation to start with: 1. He didn't have to rob the store. 2. He didn't have to walk down the middle of the street demanding attention. 3. He didn't have to ignore the cops demands which were reasonable to start with. 4. He didn't have to resist arrest and lunge for a weapon.
Better judgement at any one of those moments and he likely would still be alive. In hindsight and from afar, it's easy to say what the cop should have done; but given the cop was forced to deal with the moment and make instantaneous decisions that might have cost him his life... I'm inclined to exercise a bare minimum of understanding... at least until the full story comes out.
I don't disagree at all. The story has to come out. We will see if it does. But to basically say the guy deserves what he got because he was asking for trouble is insane.
The fact is an unarmed 18 year old is dead, regardless of race. People have every reason to be angry and want answers.
Everyone has handled the situation terribly
Many have handled the situation terribly... I agree.
I'm not happy Brown has been killed. All I'm saying is that his actions were reckless and he placed himself in harm's way- it's as if he played 'chicken' with the law. Most are calling for the cop's head, but they tend to forget that Brown pushed the envelope.
18 years old is not 8 years old. Brown knew what he was doing.
Maybe before everyone riots people should just let the investigators do their jobs ... it seems to me people are concluding that if the facts indicate their was wrong doing by the officer he won't face charges. As for people calling for his immediate arrest ... really, police officer always get the benefit of the doubt its the nature of the beast.
And in the future no matter what race you are when the police stop you and want to ask you questions, maybe just answer or don't but at the very least be respectful, don't make any threatening moves and keep your hands where they can be seen.
Just for the record I'm not saying this kid did anything wrong ... I just don't know, I'm at the very least willing to let investigators sort things out. and i sure as hell wouldn't be demonstrating or rioting unless I knew the facts ... which at this point it appears no one does.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
brown robbed the store & is clutching those cigars. he & his little partner decide to calmly take a stroll down the fucking street, not the sidewalk. let's just be obvious, defiant & show everyone we are runnin the show around here. when asked to take the walk to the sidewalk by a policeman we will be as we are... runnin the show around here
good ideas these folks had
strong arming a shopkeeper & walking down the damn street. asking for trouble anyone? if you are gonna be a thug ass criminal why not use your damn brain? petty crime, yes. stupid ass bullshit
Asking for trouble or asking to be killed?
Without knowing the full story that seems to change every day... I'm not blaming the officer for what occurred quite yet.
What we do know is this guy had committed a crime, strutted down the middle of the street- essentially telling the world to go fuck themselves- defied police orders, and- likely thinking he was being detained for the robbery he just committed- resisted arrest (apparently lunging for a weapon as well).
On that note... if it is proven he lunged for the officer's weapon... what was he going to do with it? If he had shot the cop... everyone would be saying, "Why didn't the cop use his gun? What type of cop allows the detained to grab his gun and use it against him?"
From everything I have read, this case must determine exactly what threat Brown presented to the officer handling the situation. If it is established that Brown- a massive human being by all accounts- presented himself as a formidable threat that could easily overpower the officer and that he made an effort to do so... then I don't know if we should be the ones to judge whether or not excessive force was used or not. A cop, upholding the law and in a life or death situation against a criminal gets my support. Sorry.
Brown was in control of the situation to start with: 1. He didn't have to rob the store. 2. He didn't have to walk down the middle of the street demanding attention. 3. He didn't have to ignore the cops demands which were reasonable to start with. 4. He didn't have to resist arrest and lunge for a weapon.
Better judgement at any one of those moments and he likely would still be alive. In hindsight and from afar, it's easy to say what the cop should have done; but given the cop was forced to deal with the moment and make instantaneous decisions that might have cost him his life... I'm inclined to exercise a bare minimum of understanding... at least until the full story comes out.
If he reached in the car to grab for a weapon I can see a shot being justified for sure. It seems to me that the cop over reacted. I understand that it would have been a very tense situation to fight someone off who might be trying to grab your gun and shoot you. But if the witnesses are right and the kid had his hands up then that is murder.
Yes.
But there are conflicting reports from various witnesses. Some of the witnesses that say he had his hands up have some serious credibility issues.
Let's wait until the full story unfolds and if it is indeed established that he's a murderer... then let's get him.
people in the st louis area are calling for the police to start shooting real bullets at the people protesting.
i have been politically active and protesting for over 20 years and i have never ever once heard people in our local media and people calling in to talk shows demanding use of lethal force.
my city has gone to shit in 10 days.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
people in the st louis area are calling for the police to start shooting real bullets at the people protesting.
i have been politically active and protesting for over 20 years and i have never ever once heard people in our local media and people calling in to talk shows demanding use of lethal force.
my city has gone to shit in 10 days.
I've been reading your posts with interest. I'm curious to know where you stand with regards to this issue at the current moment. I know initially you 'seemed' outraged at what looked to be another shooting, but I'm curious to know where you sit right now given everything you have likely heard about the case?
It goes without saying that the aftermath you are currently experiencing is beyond unsettling for so many reasons- complete madness.
The question is whether Brown was killed illegally by the officer. Whether or not he robbed the store is irrelevant. Stealing cigars is not punishable by death.
No, stealing isn't punishable by death. But the robbery is relevant. Even if the cop doesn't know he robbed the store, Brown doesn't know that. The fact that he robbed a store and minutes later there's a cop around had to have an impact on Brown's decision making process.
Still not punishable by death. Hell murder isn't punishable by death in some states. Worst case this kid was a punk. That warrants two head shots?
If he charged at the cop its justified after he tried to take the gun.end of story.
brown robbed the store & is clutching those cigars. he & his little partner decide to calmly take a stroll down the fucking street, not the sidewalk. let's just be obvious, defiant & show everyone we are runnin the show around here. when asked to take the walk to the sidewalk by a policeman we will be as we are... runnin the show around here
good ideas these folks had
strong arming a shopkeeper & walking down the damn street. asking for trouble anyone? if you are gonna be a thug ass criminal why not use your damn brain? petty crime, yes. stupid ass bullshit
Asking for trouble or asking to be killed?
Without knowing the full story that seems to change every day... I'm not blaming the officer for what occurred quite yet.
What we do know is this guy had committed a crime, strutted down the middle of the street- essentially telling the world to go fuck themselves- defied police orders, and- likely thinking he was being detained for the robbery he just committed- resisted arrest (apparently lunging for a weapon as well).
On that note... if it is proven he lunged for the officer's weapon... what was he going to do with it? If he had shot the cop... everyone would be saying, "Why didn't the cop use his gun? What type of cop allows the detained to grab his gun and use it against him?"
From everything I have read, this case must determine exactly what threat Brown presented to the officer handling the situation. If it is established that Brown- a massive human being by all accounts- presented himself as a formidable threat that could easily overpower the officer and that he made an effort to do so... then I don't know if we should be the ones to judge whether or not excessive force was used or not. A cop, upholding the law and in a life or death situation against a criminal gets my support. Sorry.
Brown was in control of the situation to start with: 1. He didn't have to rob the store. 2. He didn't have to walk down the middle of the street demanding attention. 3. He didn't have to ignore the cops demands which were reasonable to start with. 4. He didn't have to resist arrest and lunge for a weapon.
Better judgement at any one of those moments and he likely would still be alive. In hindsight and from afar, it's easy to say what the cop should have done; but given the cop was forced to deal with the moment and make instantaneous decisions that might have cost him his life... I'm inclined to exercise a bare minimum of understanding... at least until the full story comes out.
brown robbed the store & is clutching those cigars. he & his little partner decide to calmly take a stroll down the fucking street, not the sidewalk. let's just be obvious, defiant & show everyone we are runnin the show around here. when asked to take the walk to the sidewalk by a policeman we will be as we are... runnin the show around here
good ideas these folks had
strong arming a shopkeeper & walking down the damn street. asking for trouble anyone? if you are gonna be a thug ass criminal why not use your damn brain? petty crime, yes. stupid ass bullshit
Asking for trouble or asking to be killed?
Without knowing the full story that seems to change every day... I'm not blaming the officer for what occurred quite yet.
What we do know is this guy had committed a crime, strutted down the middle of the street- essentially telling the world to go fuck themselves- defied police orders, and- likely thinking he was being detained for the robbery he just committed- resisted arrest (apparently lunging for a weapon as well).
On that note... if it is proven he lunged for the officer's weapon... what was he going to do with it? If he had shot the cop... everyone would be saying, "Why didn't the cop use his gun? What type of cop allows the detained to grab his gun and use it against him?"
From everything I have read, this case must determine exactly what threat Brown presented to the officer handling the situation. If it is established that Brown- a massive human being by all accounts- presented himself as a formidable threat that could easily overpower the officer and that he made an effort to do so... then I don't know if we should be the ones to judge whether or not excessive force was used or not. A cop, upholding the law and in a life or death situation against a criminal gets my support. Sorry.
Brown was in control of the situation to start with: 1. He didn't have to rob the store. 2. He didn't have to walk down the middle of the street demanding attention. 3. He didn't have to ignore the cops demands which were reasonable to start with. 4. He didn't have to resist arrest and lunge for a weapon.
Better judgement at any one of those moments and he likely would still be alive. In hindsight and from afar, it's easy to say what the cop should have done; but given the cop was forced to deal with the moment and make instantaneous decisions that might have cost him his life... I'm inclined to exercise a bare minimum of understanding... at least until the full story comes out.
I don't disagree at all. The story has to come out. We will see if it does. But to basically say the guy deserves what he got because he was asking for trouble is insane.
The fact is an unarmed 18 year old is dead, regardless of race. People have every reason to be angry and want answers.
Everyone has handled the situation terribly
Many have handled the situation terribly... I agree.
I'm not happy Brown has been killed. All I'm saying is that his actions were reckless and he placed himself in harm's way- it's as if he played 'chicken' with the law. Most are calling for the cop's head, but they tend to forget that Brown pushed the envelope.
18 years old is not 8 years old. Brown knew what he was doing.
Again, being reckless and asking for trouble is no reason to be killed. Perhaps the cop did feel threatened but also acted recklessly. The difference is it is job not to. I don't know why this guy gets the benefit of the doubt so much. Did he want to kill someone? Most certainly not but it doesn't mean he didn't do anything wrond
brown robbed the store & is clutching those cigars. he & his little partner decide to calmly take a stroll down the fucking street, not the sidewalk. let's just be obvious, defiant & show everyone we are runnin the show around here. when asked to take the walk to the sidewalk by a policeman we will be as we are... runnin the show around here
good ideas these folks had
strong arming a shopkeeper & walking down the damn street. asking for trouble anyone? if you are gonna be a thug ass criminal why not use your damn brain? petty crime, yes. stupid ass bullshit
Asking for trouble or asking to be killed?
Without knowing the full story that seems to change every day... I'm not blaming the officer for what occurred quite yet.
What we do know is this guy had committed a crime, strutted down the middle of the street- essentially telling the world to go fuck themselves- defied police orders, and- likely thinking he was being detained for the robbery he just committed- resisted arrest (apparently lunging for a weapon as well).
On that note... if it is proven he lunged for the officer's weapon... what was he going to do with it? If he had shot the cop... everyone would be saying, "Why didn't the cop use his gun? What type of cop allows the detained to grab his gun and use it against him?"
From everything I have read, this case must determine exactly what threat Brown presented to the officer handling the situation. If it is established that Brown- a massive human being by all accounts- presented himself as a formidable threat that could easily overpower the officer and that he made an effort to do so... then I don't know if we should be the ones to judge whether or not excessive force was used or not. A cop, upholding the law and in a life or death situation against a criminal gets my support. Sorry.
Brown was in control of the situation to start with: 1. He didn't have to rob the store. 2. He didn't have to walk down the middle of the street demanding attention. 3. He didn't have to ignore the cops demands which were reasonable to start with. 4. He didn't have to resist arrest and lunge for a weapon.
Better judgement at any one of those moments and he likely would still be alive. In hindsight and from afar, it's easy to say what the cop should have done; but given the cop was forced to deal with the moment and make instantaneous decisions that might have cost him his life... I'm inclined to exercise a bare minimum of understanding... at least until the full story comes out.
I don't disagree at all. The story has to come out. We will see if it does. But to basically say the guy deserves what he got because he was asking for trouble is insane.
The fact is an unarmed 18 year old is dead, regardless of race. People have every reason to be angry and want answers.
Everyone has handled the situation terribly
Many have handled the situation terribly... I agree.
I'm not happy Brown has been killed. All I'm saying is that his actions were reckless and he placed himself in harm's way- it's as if he played 'chicken' with the law. Most are calling for the cop's head, but they tend to forget that Brown pushed the envelope.
18 years old is not 8 years old. Brown knew what he was doing.
Again, being reckless and asking for trouble is no reason to be killed. Perhaps the cop did feel threatened but also acted recklessly. The difference is it is job not to. I don't know why this guy gets the benefit of the doubt so much. Did he want to kill someone? Most certainly not but it doesn't mean he didn't do anything wrond
Why do cops not all have tasers?
Of course being reckless and asking for trouble are not reasons to be killed, but these weren't the reasons he was killed.
Being in a confrontation/altercation with a police officer 'might' be a very good reason to be killed.
The officer gets the benefit of the doubt to this point in time because he wasn't the one hurting people, robbing stores, walking down the middle of main street, sneering at the cops, resisting arrest, and lunging for an officer's weapon. The officer was doing police work.
If it is established the officer used excessive force while doing police work (and I would admit that it kind of sounds like he did)... then he will be charged and face penalties. Until that time... innocent until proven guilty... no?
thanks man. i am safe. sounds like there was a shooting at the protest last night and the guy could die from it. they said the tear gas was to clear the crowd so that responders could get to the victim.
i have spent a lot of time thinking about this.
the family and the protesters and the local news have framed this kid as an angel and a gentle giant. the police released a video of the kid strongarm robbing a gas station 11 minutes before he was shot. that is not something an angel does. that is something that a thug does. know what he stole? a box of cigarillos. what is he going to do with those besides roll blunts? all i am saying is this is a media battle more than anything else. yeah the kid roughed up a store owner. this is not a capital offense, and it did not warrant him being shot, but the kid was not an angel and he should have been arrested for his crime. also, the kid had an attitude problem. who walks down the middle of the street in traffic in broad daylight? an asshole does. who mouths off back to a cop when a cop asks them, or tells them, to get off the street and onto the sidewalk? an asshole does.
did the cop overreact? from what i have seen, yes. should the cop be arrested and charged pending the investigation? yes. should the protesters stop looting and fucking up their own community? yes.
everyone just needs to chill out until more info is released. it doesn't help when people from as far away as texas are traveling here to participate in mayhem.
i am all for justice, but at this point i am more for peace.
I've heard that "we fired tear gas to get to an injured person" excuse before. They did it at the 1994 Vancouver riot... which wasn't even close to being a riot UNTIL the cops fired the tear gas into a peaceful crowd. They could have reached the injured person in a peaceful way just as quickly. They just wanted to disperse the crowd, and used this hurt person as an excuse to shoot gas at us. Then the previously happy crowd stampeded, more people got hurt, people got pissed and chaos ensued. Bad scene, and as someone who was right there front and centre, I confidently say that the use of tear gas is what made everything 100 times worse. Excuses excuses. A hurt person in a crowd is the easiest excuse in the books. Cops are so good at making bad situations worse, it would be laughable if it weren't so disturbing.
So are you saying they shouldn't be using tear gas to try and disperse a crowd that is throwing bottles, rocks, and molotov cocktails at them?
No, I'm saying they shouldn't use tear gas on a crowd that is doing none of those thing, which is what their excuse about an injured person pertained to. I have also seen the footage of them fired tear gas at a crowd that was just standing there being loud.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
The most disturbing part of this is the militarization of the police. Between the War on Drugs and "Terrorism" the local Law Enforcement has gotten out of hand.
We've lost something when you see police officers in full combat gear sitting on top of armored personnel carriers looking through semi automatic assault weapon scopes at Americans. After all these days they are still pointing weapons at people... WTF?....
When Amnesty International has to dispatch inspectors to an American city, something needs to change.
It's also disturbing that the cops even have to resort to things like that. But when you are having rocks, bottles, and molotov cocktails thrown at you, the cops have to do something. They have to be prepared for situations like this as unfortunate as it may be.
brown robbed the store & is clutching those cigars. he & his little partner decide to calmly take a stroll down the fucking street, not the sidewalk. let's just be obvious, defiant & show everyone we are runnin the show around here. when asked to take the walk to the sidewalk by a policeman we will be as we are... runnin the show around here
good ideas these folks had
strong arming a shopkeeper & walking down the damn street. asking for trouble anyone? if you are gonna be a thug ass criminal why not use your damn brain? petty crime, yes. stupid ass bullshit
Asking for trouble or asking to be killed?
Without knowing the full story that seems to change every day... I'm not blaming the officer for what occurred quite yet.
What we do know is this guy had committed a crime, strutted down the middle of the street- essentially telling the world to go fuck themselves- defied police orders, and- likely thinking he was being detained for the robbery he just committed- resisted arrest (apparently lunging for a weapon as well).
On that note... if it is proven he lunged for the officer's weapon... what was he going to do with it? If he had shot the cop... everyone would be saying, "Why didn't the cop use his gun? What type of cop allows the detained to grab his gun and use it against him?"
From everything I have read, this case must determine exactly what threat Brown presented to the officer handling the situation. If it is established that Brown- a massive human being by all accounts- presented himself as a formidable threat that could easily overpower the officer and that he made an effort to do so... then I don't know if we should be the ones to judge whether or not excessive force was used or not. A cop, upholding the law and in a life or death situation against a criminal gets my support. Sorry.
Brown was in control of the situation to start with: 1. He didn't have to rob the store. 2. He didn't have to walk down the middle of the street demanding attention. 3. He didn't have to ignore the cops demands which were reasonable to start with. 4. He didn't have to resist arrest and lunge for a weapon.
Better judgement at any one of those moments and he likely would still be alive. In hindsight and from afar, it's easy to say what the cop should have done; but given the cop was forced to deal with the moment and make instantaneous decisions that might have cost him his life... I'm inclined to exercise a bare minimum of understanding... at least until the full story comes out.
I don't disagree at all. The story has to come out. We will see if it does. But to basically say the guy deserves what he got because he was asking for trouble is insane.
The fact is an unarmed 18 year old is dead, regardless of race. People have every reason to be angry and want answers.
Everyone has handled the situation terribly
Many have handled the situation terribly... I agree.
I'm not happy Brown has been killed. All I'm saying is that his actions were reckless and he placed himself in harm's way- it's as if he played 'chicken' with the law. Most are calling for the cop's head, but they tend to forget that Brown pushed the envelope.
18 years old is not 8 years old. Brown knew what he was doing.
Again, being reckless and asking for trouble is no reason to be killed. Perhaps the cop did feel threatened but also acted recklessly. The difference is it is job not to. I don't know why this guy gets the benefit of the doubt so much. Did he want to kill someone? Most certainly not but it doesn't mean he didn't do anything wrond
Why do cops not all have tasers?
Of course being reckless and asking for trouble are not reasons to be killed, but these weren't the reasons he was killed.
Being in a confrontation/altercation with a police officer 'might' be a very good reason to be killed.
The officer gets the benefit of the doubt to this point in time because he wasn't the one hurting people, robbing stores, walking down the middle of main street, sneering at the cops, resisting arrest, and lunging for an officer's weapon. The officer was doing police work.
If it is established the officer used excessive force while doing police work (and I would admit that it kind of sounds like he did)... then he will be charged and face penalties. Until that time... innocent until proven guilty... no?
What about brown? He isn't innocent till proven guilty? Why are all your opinions about brown so concrete and not the officer?
The most disturbing part of this is the militarization of the police. Between the War on Drugs and "Terrorism" the local Law Enforcement has gotten out of hand.
We've lost something when you see police officers in full combat gear sitting on top of armored personnel carriers looking through semi automatic assault weapon scopes at Americans. After all these days they are still pointing weapons at people... WTF?....
When Amnesty International has to dispatch inspectors to an American city, something needs to change.
It's also disturbing that the cops even have to resort to things like that. But when you are having rocks, bottles, and molotov cocktails thrown at you, the cops have to do something. They have to be prepared for situations like this as unfortunate as it may be.
Sounds like they know how to seperate the protesters from the criminals. Assume the have a good beat on where each are coming from
brown robbed the store & is clutching those cigars. he & his little partner decide to calmly take a stroll down the fucking street, not the sidewalk. let's just be obvious, defiant & show everyone we are runnin the show around here. when asked to take the walk to the sidewalk by a policeman we will be as we are... runnin the show around here
good ideas these folks had
strong arming a shopkeeper & walking down the damn street. asking for trouble anyone? if you are gonna be a thug ass criminal why not use your damn brain? petty crime, yes. stupid ass bullshit
Asking for trouble or asking to be killed?
Without knowing the full story that seems to change every day... I'm not blaming the officer for what occurred quite yet.
What we do know is this guy had committed a crime, strutted down the middle of the street- essentially telling the world to go fuck themselves- defied police orders, and- likely thinking he was being detained for the robbery he just committed- resisted arrest (apparently lunging for a weapon as well).
On that note... if it is proven he lunged for the officer's weapon... what was he going to do with it? If he had shot the cop... everyone would be saying, "Why didn't the cop use his gun? What type of cop allows the detained to grab his gun and use it against him?"
From everything I have read, this case must determine exactly what threat Brown presented to the officer handling the situation. If it is established that Brown- a massive human being by all accounts- presented himself as a formidable threat that could easily overpower the officer and that he made an effort to do so... then I don't know if we should be the ones to judge whether or not excessive force was used or not. A cop, upholding the law and in a life or death situation against a criminal gets my support. Sorry.
Brown was in control of the situation to start with: 1. He didn't have to rob the store. 2. He didn't have to walk down the middle of the street demanding attention. 3. He didn't have to ignore the cops demands which were reasonable to start with. 4. He didn't have to resist arrest and lunge for a weapon.
Better judgement at any one of those moments and he likely would still be alive. In hindsight and from afar, it's easy to say what the cop should have done; but given the cop was forced to deal with the moment and make instantaneous decisions that might have cost him his life... I'm inclined to exercise a bare minimum of understanding... at least until the full story comes out.
I don't disagree at all. The story has to come out. We will see if it does. But to basically say the guy deserves what he got because he was asking for trouble is insane.
The fact is an unarmed 18 year old is dead, regardless of race. People have every reason to be angry and want answers.
Everyone has handled the situation terribly
Many have handled the situation terribly... I agree.
I'm not happy Brown has been killed. All I'm saying is that his actions were reckless and he placed himself in harm's way- it's as if he played 'chicken' with the law. Most are calling for the cop's head, but they tend to forget that Brown pushed the envelope.
18 years old is not 8 years old. Brown knew what he was doing.
Again, being reckless and asking for trouble is no reason to be killed. Perhaps the cop did feel threatened but also acted recklessly. The difference is it is job not to. I don't know why this guy gets the benefit of the doubt so much. Did he want to kill someone? Most certainly not but it doesn't mean he didn't do anything wrond
Why do cops not all have tasers?
Of course being reckless and asking for trouble are not reasons to be killed, but these weren't the reasons he was killed.
Being in a confrontation/altercation with a police officer 'might' be a very good reason to be killed.
The officer gets the benefit of the doubt to this point in time because he wasn't the one hurting people, robbing stores, walking down the middle of main street, sneering at the cops, resisting arrest, and lunging for an officer's weapon. The officer was doing police work.
If it is established the officer used excessive force while doing police work (and I would admit that it kind of sounds like he did)... then he will be charged and face penalties. Until that time... innocent until proven guilty... no?
Officer def should get benefit of the doubt.Im hearing there is at least a dozen people who witnessed/agree with his account of what happened.Quick trigger,maybe but if he felt threatened at all,and if the "gentle giant"made a move toward him in a threading manor(after trying to steal his gun).He had to react with deadly force.He was doing his job.
brown robbed the store & is clutching those cigars. he & his little partner decide to calmly take a stroll down the fucking street, not the sidewalk. let's just be obvious, defiant & show everyone we are runnin the show around here. when asked to take the walk to the sidewalk by a policeman we will be as we are... runnin the show around here
good ideas these folks had
strong arming a shopkeeper & walking down the damn street. asking for trouble anyone? if you are gonna be a thug ass criminal why not use your damn brain? petty crime, yes. stupid ass bullshit
Asking for trouble or asking to be killed?
Without knowing the full story that seems to change every day... I'm not blaming the officer for what occurred quite yet.
What we do know is this guy had committed a crime, strutted down the middle of the street- essentially telling the world to go fuck themselves- defied police orders, and- likely thinking he was being detained for the robbery he just committed- resisted arrest (apparently lunging for a weapon as well).
On that note... if it is proven he lunged for the officer's weapon... what was he going to do with it? If he had shot the cop... everyone would be saying, "Why didn't the cop use his gun? What type of cop allows the detained to grab his gun and use it against him?"
From everything I have read, this case must determine exactly what threat Brown presented to the officer handling the situation. If it is established that Brown- a massive human being by all accounts- presented himself as a formidable threat that could easily overpower the officer and that he made an effort to do so... then I don't know if we should be the ones to judge whether or not excessive force was used or not. A cop, upholding the law and in a life or death situation against a criminal gets my support. Sorry.
Brown was in control of the situation to start with: 1. He didn't have to rob the store. 2. He didn't have to walk down the middle of the street demanding attention. 3. He didn't have to ignore the cops demands which were reasonable to start with. 4. He didn't have to resist arrest and lunge for a weapon.
Better judgement at any one of those moments and he likely would still be alive. In hindsight and from afar, it's easy to say what the cop should have done; but given the cop was forced to deal with the moment and make instantaneous decisions that might have cost him his life... I'm inclined to exercise a bare minimum of understanding... at least until the full story comes out.
I don't disagree at all. The story has to come out. We will see if it does. But to basically say the guy deserves what he got because he was asking for trouble is insane.
The fact is an unarmed 18 year old is dead, regardless of race. People have every reason to be angry and want answers.
Everyone has handled the situation terribly
Many have handled the situation terribly... I agree.
I'm not happy Brown has been killed. All I'm saying is that his actions were reckless and he placed himself in harm's way- it's as if he played 'chicken' with the law. Most are calling for the cop's head, but they tend to forget that Brown pushed the envelope.
18 years old is not 8 years old. Brown knew what he was doing.
Again, being reckless and asking for trouble is no reason to be killed. Perhaps the cop did feel threatened but also acted recklessly. The difference is it is job not to. I don't know why this guy gets the benefit of the doubt so much. Did he want to kill someone? Most certainly not but it doesn't mean he didn't do anything wrond
Why do cops not all have tasers?
Of course being reckless and asking for trouble are not reasons to be killed, but these weren't the reasons he was killed.
Being in a confrontation/altercation with a police officer 'might' be a very good reason to be killed.
The officer gets the benefit of the doubt to this point in time because he wasn't the one hurting people, robbing stores, walking down the middle of main street, sneering at the cops, resisting arrest, and lunging for an officer's weapon. The officer was doing police work.
If it is established the officer used excessive force while doing police work (and I would admit that it kind of sounds like he did)... then he will be charged and face penalties. Until that time... innocent until proven guilty... no?
Officer def should get benefit of the doubt.Im hearing there is at least a dozen people who witnessed/agree with his account of what happened.Quick trigger,maybe but if he felt threatened at all,and if the "gentle giant"made a move toward him in a threading manor(after trying to steal his gun).He had to react with deadly force.He was doing his job.
Good to know police officers have the right to shoot unarmed people and get the benefit of the doubt. Shoot now ask questions later, I guess.
brown robbed the store & is clutching those cigars. he & his little partner decide to calmly take a stroll down the fucking street, not the sidewalk. let's just be obvious, defiant & show everyone we are runnin the show around here. when asked to take the walk to the sidewalk by a policeman we will be as we are... runnin the show around here
good ideas these folks had
strong arming a shopkeeper & walking down the damn street. asking for trouble anyone? if you are gonna be a thug ass criminal why not use your damn brain? petty crime, yes. stupid ass bullshit
Asking for trouble or asking to be killed?
Without knowing the full story that seems to change every day... I'm not blaming the officer for what occurred quite yet.
What we do know is this guy had committed a crime, strutted down the middle of the street- essentially telling the world to go fuck themselves- defied police orders, and- likely thinking he was being detained for the robbery he just committed- resisted arrest (apparently lunging for a weapon as well).
On that note... if it is proven he lunged for the officer's weapon... what was he going to do with it? If he had shot the cop... everyone would be saying, "Why didn't the cop use his gun? What type of cop allows the detained to grab his gun and use it against him?"
From everything I have read, this case must determine exactly what threat Brown presented to the officer handling the situation. If it is established that Brown- a massive human being by all accounts- presented himself as a formidable threat that could easily overpower the officer and that he made an effort to do so... then I don't know if we should be the ones to judge whether or not excessive force was used or not. A cop, upholding the law and in a life or death situation against a criminal gets my support. Sorry.
Brown was in control of the situation to start with: 1. He didn't have to rob the store. 2. He didn't have to walk down the middle of the street demanding attention. 3. He didn't have to ignore the cops demands which were reasonable to start with. 4. He didn't have to resist arrest and lunge for a weapon.
Better judgement at any one of those moments and he likely would still be alive. In hindsight and from afar, it's easy to say what the cop should have done; but given the cop was forced to deal with the moment and make instantaneous decisions that might have cost him his life... I'm inclined to exercise a bare minimum of understanding... at least until the full story comes out.
I don't disagree at all. The story has to come out. We will see if it does. But to basically say the guy deserves what he got because he was asking for trouble is insane.
The fact is an unarmed 18 year old is dead, regardless of race. People have every reason to be angry and want answers.
Everyone has handled the situation terribly
Many have handled the situation terribly... I agree.
I'm not happy Brown has been killed. All I'm saying is that his actions were reckless and he placed himself in harm's way- it's as if he played 'chicken' with the law. Most are calling for the cop's head, but they tend to forget that Brown pushed the envelope.
18 years old is not 8 years old. Brown knew what he was doing.
Again, being reckless and asking for trouble is no reason to be killed. Perhaps the cop did feel threatened but also acted recklessly. The difference is it is job not to. I don't know why this guy gets the benefit of the doubt so much. Did he want to kill someone? Most certainly not but it doesn't mean he didn't do anything wrond
Why do cops not all have tasers?
Of course being reckless and asking for trouble are not reasons to be killed, but these weren't the reasons he was killed.
Being in a confrontation/altercation with a police officer 'might' be a very good reason to be killed.
The officer gets the benefit of the doubt to this point in time because he wasn't the one hurting people, robbing stores, walking down the middle of main street, sneering at the cops, resisting arrest, and lunging for an officer's weapon. The officer was doing police work.
If it is established the officer used excessive force while doing police work (and I would admit that it kind of sounds like he did)... then he will be charged and face penalties. Until that time... innocent until proven guilty... no?
What about brown? He isn't innocent till proven guilty?
He might be innocent of resisting arrest and provoking a deadly altercation with the officer. This is what needs to be determined.
As we investigate this... let's not pretend this is a nice boy coming home from volunteering at the youth center. He was holding up convenience stores and becoming confrontational with an officer who was forced to gauge his level of threat.
He forced the issue... the issue wasn't forced on him.
Has no one talked about the benefits of tasers vs guns here. Why didn't the cops just tase him? Not to mention that dude with the knife who was being discussed earlier?
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I still don't understand what "robbing" a store has anything to do with anything
Because as we look at this case... we can begin to understand Brown's agitated and confrontational state of mind. He had just robbed a convenience store and was likely thinking the cops were detaining him because of his role in that crime.
brown robbed the store & is clutching those cigars. he & his little partner decide to calmly take a stroll down the fucking street, not the sidewalk. let's just be obvious, defiant & show everyone we are runnin the show around here. when asked to take the walk to the sidewalk by a policeman we will be as we are... runnin the show around here
good ideas these folks had
strong arming a shopkeeper & walking down the damn street. asking for trouble anyone? if you are gonna be a thug ass criminal why not use your damn brain? petty crime, yes. stupid ass bullshit
Asking for trouble or asking to be killed?
Without knowing the full story that seems to change every day... I'm not blaming the officer for what occurred quite yet.
What we do know is this guy had committed a crime, strutted down the middle of the street- essentially telling the world to go fuck themselves- defied police orders, and- likely thinking he was being detained for the robbery he just committed- resisted arrest (apparently lunging for a weapon as well).
On that note... if it is proven he lunged for the officer's weapon... what was he going to do with it? If he had shot the cop... everyone would be saying, "Why didn't the cop use his gun? What type of cop allows the detained to grab his gun and use it against him?"
From everything I have read, this case must determine exactly what threat Brown presented to the officer handling the situation. If it is established that Brown- a massive human being by all accounts- presented himself as a formidable threat that could easily overpower the officer and that he made an effort to do so... then I don't know if we should be the ones to judge whether or not excessive force was used or not. A cop, upholding the law and in a life or death situation against a criminal gets my support. Sorry.
Brown was in control of the situation to start with: 1. He didn't have to rob the store. 2. He didn't have to walk down the middle of the street demanding attention. 3. He didn't have to ignore the cops demands which were reasonable to start with. 4. He didn't have to resist arrest and lunge for a weapon.
Better judgement at any one of those moments and he likely would still be alive. In hindsight and from afar, it's easy to say what the cop should have done; but given the cop was forced to deal with the moment and make instantaneous decisions that might have cost him his life... I'm inclined to exercise a bare minimum of understanding... at least until the full story comes out.
I don't disagree at all. The story has to come out. We will see if it does. But to basically say the guy deserves what he got because he was asking for trouble is insane.
The fact is an unarmed 18 year old is dead, regardless of race. People have every reason to be angry and want answers.
Everyone has handled the situation terribly
Many have handled the situation terribly... I agree.
I'm not happy Brown has been killed. All I'm saying is that his actions were reckless and he placed himself in harm's way- it's as if he played 'chicken' with the law. Most are calling for the cop's head, but they tend to forget that Brown pushed the envelope.
18 years old is not 8 years old. Brown knew what he was doing.
Again, being reckless and asking for trouble is no reason to be killed. Perhaps the cop did feel threatened but also acted recklessly. The difference is it is job not to. I don't know why this guy gets the benefit of the doubt so much. Did he want to kill someone? Most certainly not but it doesn't mean he didn't do anything wrond
Why do cops not all have tasers?
Of course being reckless and asking for trouble are not reasons to be killed, but these weren't the reasons he was killed.
Being in a confrontation/altercation with a police officer 'might' be a very good reason to be killed.
The officer gets the benefit of the doubt to this point in time because he wasn't the one hurting people, robbing stores, walking down the middle of main street, sneering at the cops, resisting arrest, and lunging for an officer's weapon. The officer was doing police work.
If it is established the officer used excessive force while doing police work (and I would admit that it kind of sounds like he did)... then he will be charged and face penalties. Until that time... innocent until proven guilty... no?
What about brown? He isn't innocent till proven guilty?
He might be innocent of resisting arrest and provoking a deadly altercation with the officer. This is what needs to be determined.
As we investigate this... let's not pretend this is a nice boy coming home from volunteering at the youth center. He was holding up convenience stores and becoming confrontational with an officer who was forced to gauge his level of threat.
He forced the issue... the issue wasn't forced on him.
It makes no fucking difference where he was coming from. The reason they released that is so people like you would do just this and call him a thug. All the matters is what happened in the seconds before an unarmed kid was killed.
Has no one talked about the benefits of tasers vs guns here. Why didn't the cops just tase him? Not to mention that dude with the knife who was being discussed earlier?
I asked that a couple posts up. No reason cops don't all have tasers.
The one earlier seems crazy. They couldn't take a crazy dude with a knife out without killing him. I mean that dude deserved whatever happened but how can two cops not unarm a dude with a knife without killing him.
brown robbed the store & is clutching those cigars. he & his little partner decide to calmly take a stroll down the fucking street, not the sidewalk. let's just be obvious, defiant & show everyone we are runnin the show around here. when asked to take the walk to the sidewalk by a policeman we will be as we are... runnin the show around here
good ideas these folks had
strong arming a shopkeeper & walking down the damn street. asking for trouble anyone? if you are gonna be a thug ass criminal why not use your damn brain? petty crime, yes. stupid ass bullshit
Asking for trouble or asking to be killed?
Without knowing the full story that seems to change every day... I'm not blaming the officer for what occurred quite yet.
What we do know is this guy had committed a crime, strutted down the middle of the street- essentially telling the world to go fuck themselves- defied police orders, and- likely thinking he was being detained for the robbery he just committed- resisted arrest (apparently lunging for a weapon as well).
On that note... if it is proven he lunged for the officer's weapon... what was he going to do with it? If he had shot the cop... everyone would be saying, "Why didn't the cop use his gun? What type of cop allows the detained to grab his gun and use it against him?"
From everything I have read, this case must determine exactly what threat Brown presented to the officer handling the situation. If it is established that Brown- a massive human being by all accounts- presented himself as a formidable threat that could easily overpower the officer and that he made an effort to do so... then I don't know if we should be the ones to judge whether or not excessive force was used or not. A cop, upholding the law and in a life or death situation against a criminal gets my support. Sorry.
Brown was in control of the situation to start with: 1. He didn't have to rob the store. 2. He didn't have to walk down the middle of the street demanding attention. 3. He didn't have to ignore the cops demands which were reasonable to start with. 4. He didn't have to resist arrest and lunge for a weapon.
Better judgement at any one of those moments and he likely would still be alive. In hindsight and from afar, it's easy to say what the cop should have done; but given the cop was forced to deal with the moment and make instantaneous decisions that might have cost him his life... I'm inclined to exercise a bare minimum of understanding... at least until the full story comes out.
I don't disagree at all. The story has to come out. We will see if it does. But to basically say the guy deserves what he got because he was asking for trouble is insane.
The fact is an unarmed 18 year old is dead, regardless of race. People have every reason to be angry and want answers.
Everyone has handled the situation terribly
Many have handled the situation terribly... I agree.
I'm not happy Brown has been killed. All I'm saying is that his actions were reckless and he placed himself in harm's way- it's as if he played 'chicken' with the law. Most are calling for the cop's head, but they tend to forget that Brown pushed the envelope.
18 years old is not 8 years old. Brown knew what he was doing.
Again, being reckless and asking for trouble is no reason to be killed. Perhaps the cop did feel threatened but also acted recklessly. The difference is it is job not to. I don't know why this guy gets the benefit of the doubt so much. Did he want to kill someone? Most certainly not but it doesn't mean he didn't do anything wrond
Why do cops not all have tasers?
Of course being reckless and asking for trouble are not reasons to be killed, but these weren't the reasons he was killed.
Being in a confrontation/altercation with a police officer 'might' be a very good reason to be killed.
The officer gets the benefit of the doubt to this point in time because he wasn't the one hurting people, robbing stores, walking down the middle of main street, sneering at the cops, resisting arrest, and lunging for an officer's weapon. The officer was doing police work.
If it is established the officer used excessive force while doing police work (and I would admit that it kind of sounds like he did)... then he will be charged and face penalties. Until that time... innocent until proven guilty... no?
Officer def should get benefit of the doubt.Im hearing there is at least a dozen people who witnessed/agree with his account of what happened.Quick trigger,maybe but if he felt threatened at all,and if the "gentle giant"made a move toward him in a threading manor(after trying to steal his gun).He had to react with deadly force.He was doing his job.
Good to know police officers have the right to shoot unarmed people and get the benefit of the doubt. Shoot now ask questions later, I guess.
No. Shoot only if the unarmed people are trying to grab your weapon and maybe use it against you.
How stupid does an unarmed guy have to be to try and grab a gun from anyone thinking if you don't get it... things will likely be okay? Such a move carries significant risk.
Exactly how many lunges would warrant an officer shooting someone?
brown robbed the store & is clutching those cigars. he & his little partner decide to calmly take a stroll down the fucking street, not the sidewalk. let's just be obvious, defiant & show everyone we are runnin the show around here. when asked to take the walk to the sidewalk by a policeman we will be as we are... runnin the show around here
good ideas these folks had
strong arming a shopkeeper & walking down the damn street. asking for trouble anyone? if you are gonna be a thug ass criminal why not use your damn brain? petty crime, yes. stupid ass bullshit
Asking for trouble or asking to be killed?
Without knowing the full story that seems to change every day... I'm not blaming the officer for what occurred quite yet.
What we do know is this guy had committed a crime, strutted down the middle of the street- essentially telling the world to go fuck themselves- defied police orders, and- likely thinking he was being detained for the robbery he just committed- resisted arrest (apparently lunging for a weapon as well).
On that note... if it is proven he lunged for the officer's weapon... what was he going to do with it? If he had shot the cop... everyone would be saying, "Why didn't the cop use his gun? What type of cop allows the detained to grab his gun and use it against him?"
From everything I have read, this case must determine exactly what threat Brown presented to the officer handling the situation. If it is established that Brown- a massive human being by all accounts- presented himself as a formidable threat that could easily overpower the officer and that he made an effort to do so... then I don't know if we should be the ones to judge whether or not excessive force was used or not. A cop, upholding the law and in a life or death situation against a criminal gets my support. Sorry.
Brown was in control of the situation to start with: 1. He didn't have to rob the store. 2. He didn't have to walk down the middle of the street demanding attention. 3. He didn't have to ignore the cops demands which were reasonable to start with. 4. He didn't have to resist arrest and lunge for a weapon.
Better judgement at any one of those moments and he likely would still be alive. In hindsight and from afar, it's easy to say what the cop should have done; but given the cop was forced to deal with the moment and make instantaneous decisions that might have cost him his life... I'm inclined to exercise a bare minimum of understanding... at least until the full story comes out.
I don't disagree at all. The story has to come out. We will see if it does. But to basically say the guy deserves what he got because he was asking for trouble is insane.
The fact is an unarmed 18 year old is dead, regardless of race. People have every reason to be angry and want answers.
Everyone has handled the situation terribly
Many have handled the situation terribly... I agree.
I'm not happy Brown has been killed. All I'm saying is that his actions were reckless and he placed himself in harm's way- it's as if he played 'chicken' with the law. Most are calling for the cop's head, but they tend to forget that Brown pushed the envelope.
18 years old is not 8 years old. Brown knew what he was doing.
Again, being reckless and asking for trouble is no reason to be killed. Perhaps the cop did feel threatened but also acted recklessly. The difference is it is job not to. I don't know why this guy gets the benefit of the doubt so much. Did he want to kill someone? Most certainly not but it doesn't mean he didn't do anything wrond
Why do cops not all have tasers?
Of course being reckless and asking for trouble are not reasons to be killed, but these weren't the reasons he was killed.
Being in a confrontation/altercation with a police officer 'might' be a very good reason to be killed.
The officer gets the benefit of the doubt to this point in time because he wasn't the one hurting people, robbing stores, walking down the middle of main street, sneering at the cops, resisting arrest, and lunging for an officer's weapon. The officer was doing police work.
If it is established the officer used excessive force while doing police work (and I would admit that it kind of sounds like he did)... then he will be charged and face penalties. Until that time... innocent until proven guilty... no?
Officer def should get benefit of the doubt.Im hearing there is at least a dozen people who witnessed/agree with his account of what happened.Quick trigger,maybe but if he felt threatened at all,and if the "gentle giant"made a move toward him in a threading manor(after trying to steal his gun).He had to react with deadly force.He was doing his job.
Good to know police officers have the right to shoot unarmed people and get the benefit of the doubt. Shoot now ask questions later, I guess.
No. Shoot only if the unarmed people are trying to grab your weapon and maybe use it against you.
How stupid does an unarmed guy have to be to try and grab a gun from anyone thinking if you don't get it... things will likely be okay? Such a move carries significant risk.
Exactly how many lunges would warrant an officer shooting someone?
All good questions. But again, I don't get why one party is innocent until proven guilty and not the other
brown robbed the store & is clutching those cigars. he & his little partner decide to calmly take a stroll down the fucking street, not the sidewalk. let's just be obvious, defiant & show everyone we are runnin the show around here. when asked to take the walk to the sidewalk by a policeman we will be as we are... runnin the show around here
good ideas these folks had
strong arming a shopkeeper & walking down the damn street. asking for trouble anyone? if you are gonna be a thug ass criminal why not use your damn brain? petty crime, yes. stupid ass bullshit
Asking for trouble or asking to be killed?
Without knowing the full story that seems to change every day... I'm not blaming the officer for what occurred quite yet.
What we do know is this guy had committed a crime, strutted down the middle of the street- essentially telling the world to go fuck themselves- defied police orders, and- likely thinking he was being detained for the robbery he just committed- resisted arrest (apparently lunging for a weapon as well).
On that note... if it is proven he lunged for the officer's weapon... what was he going to do with it? If he had shot the cop... everyone would be saying, "Why didn't the cop use his gun? What type of cop allows the detained to grab his gun and use it against him?"
From everything I have read, this case must determine exactly what threat Brown presented to the officer handling the situation. If it is established that Brown- a massive human being by all accounts- presented himself as a formidable threat that could easily overpower the officer and that he made an effort to do so... then I don't know if we should be the ones to judge whether or not excessive force was used or not. A cop, upholding the law and in a life or death situation against a criminal gets my support. Sorry.
Brown was in control of the situation to start with: 1. He didn't have to rob the store. 2. He didn't have to walk down the middle of the street demanding attention. 3. He didn't have to ignore the cops demands which were reasonable to start with. 4. He didn't have to resist arrest and lunge for a weapon.
Better judgement at any one of those moments and he likely would still be alive. In hindsight and from afar, it's easy to say what the cop should have done; but given the cop was forced to deal with the moment and make instantaneous decisions that might have cost him his life... I'm inclined to exercise a bare minimum of understanding... at least until the full story comes out.
I don't disagree at all. The story has to come out. We will see if it does. But to basically say the guy deserves what he got because he was asking for trouble is insane.
The fact is an unarmed 18 year old is dead, regardless of race. People have every reason to be angry and want answers.
Everyone has handled the situation terribly
Many have handled the situation terribly... I agree.
I'm not happy Brown has been killed. All I'm saying is that his actions were reckless and he placed himself in harm's way- it's as if he played 'chicken' with the law. Most are calling for the cop's head, but they tend to forget that Brown pushed the envelope.
18 years old is not 8 years old. Brown knew what he was doing.
Again, being reckless and asking for trouble is no reason to be killed. Perhaps the cop did feel threatened but also acted recklessly. The difference is it is job not to. I don't know why this guy gets the benefit of the doubt so much. Did he want to kill someone? Most certainly not but it doesn't mean he didn't do anything wrond
Why do cops not all have tasers?
Of course being reckless and asking for trouble are not reasons to be killed, but these weren't the reasons he was killed.
Being in a confrontation/altercation with a police officer 'might' be a very good reason to be killed.
The officer gets the benefit of the doubt to this point in time because he wasn't the one hurting people, robbing stores, walking down the middle of main street, sneering at the cops, resisting arrest, and lunging for an officer's weapon. The officer was doing police work.
If it is established the officer used excessive force while doing police work (and I would admit that it kind of sounds like he did)... then he will be charged and face penalties. Until that time... innocent until proven guilty... no?
What about brown? He isn't innocent till proven guilty?
He might be innocent of resisting arrest and provoking a deadly altercation with the officer. This is what needs to be determined.
As we investigate this... let's not pretend this is a nice boy coming home from volunteering at the youth center. He was holding up convenience stores and becoming confrontational with an officer who was forced to gauge his level of threat.
He forced the issue... the issue wasn't forced on him.
It makes no fucking difference where he was coming from. The reason they released that is so people like you would do just this and call him a thug. All the matters is what happened in the seconds before an unarmed kid was killed.
You are right. So stop forgetting about the fact that in the seconds before he was shot, he was defiant and aggressive- at one point trying to grab the officer's gun for gawd's sakes.
I have said the case appears to be overkill multiple times now. But I have also said that Brown is not some innocent kid simply minding his own business until forced to deal with a rogue cop: he was a criminal doing criminal things that sparked an interaction with a cop that wasn't handled very well- by himself and the cop.
And in as much as the cop may have fanned the flames, Brown lit the fire until it was burning bright.
My wife's best friend (and one of mine) is a police officer here in philly. She recently had a crazy dude come at her with an axe in the middle of the night in the hood. She did not shoot her gun. So a 120 pound female doesn't discharge a gun on a guy with an axe coming at her but he needs to put 6 bullets into an unarmed guy "grabbing" at his gun
Excuse me if I think there may be another way the situation could have been handled by the cop.
Has no one talked about the benefits of tasers vs guns here. Why didn't the cops just tase him? Not to mention that dude with the knife who was being discussed earlier?
I asked that a couple posts up. No reason cops don't all have tasers.
The one earlier seems crazy. They couldn't take a crazy dude with a knife out without killing him. I mean that dude deserved whatever happened but how can two cops not unarm a dude with a knife without killing him.
I would think that a man with mental illness and knife doesn't deserve to be killed either. Not when tasers are an effective way to bring down a person from a safe distance. If the guy had had a gun as well, that's another story. But a weapon that only reaches as far as the man's arm is long? No need for guns in that situation. And certainly not for an unarmed teenager. I don't care how agitated he is. And what if the teen had tried to punch the cop (which he didn't)? Reason to shoot him dead? NO. But these days cops will shoot to kill to avoid getting a fucking hangnail as far as I can tell. s/
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Comments
As it should be.
But what is the point of destroying parts of your community? Stealing from them, burning them? Businesses owned by the people you live among, people you're probably protesting alongside with? Not to mention violence against the police...damning all for the yet-to-be-fully-investigated actions of one?
It all seems counterproductive.
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
I'm not happy Brown has been killed. All I'm saying is that his actions were reckless and he placed himself in harm's way- it's as if he played 'chicken' with the law. Most are calling for the cop's head, but they tend to forget that Brown pushed the envelope.
18 years old is not 8 years old. Brown knew what he was doing.
And in the future no matter what race you are when the police stop you and want to ask you questions, maybe just answer or don't but at the very least be respectful, don't make any threatening moves and keep your hands where they can be seen.
Just for the record I'm not saying this kid did anything wrong ... I just don't know, I'm at the very least willing to let investigators sort things out. and i sure as hell wouldn't be demonstrating or rioting unless I knew the facts ... which at this point it appears no one does.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
But there are conflicting reports from various witnesses. Some of the witnesses that say he had his hands up have some serious credibility issues.
Let's wait until the full story unfolds and if it is indeed established that he's a murderer... then let's get him.
i have been politically active and protesting for over 20 years and i have never ever once heard people in our local media and people calling in to talk shows demanding use of lethal force.
my city has gone to shit in 10 days.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
It goes without saying that the aftermath you are currently experiencing is beyond unsettling for so many reasons- complete madness.
Why do cops not all have tasers?
Being in a confrontation/altercation with a police officer 'might' be a very good reason to be killed.
The officer gets the benefit of the doubt to this point in time because he wasn't the one hurting people, robbing stores, walking down the middle of main street, sneering at the cops, resisting arrest, and lunging for an officer's weapon. The officer was doing police work.
If it is established the officer used excessive force while doing police work (and I would admit that it kind of sounds like he did)... then he will be charged and face penalties. Until that time... innocent until proven guilty... no?
As we investigate this... let's not pretend this is a nice boy coming home from volunteering at the youth center. He was holding up convenience stores and becoming confrontational with an officer who was forced to gauge his level of threat.
He forced the issue... the issue wasn't forced on him.
The one earlier seems crazy. They couldn't take a crazy dude with a knife out without killing him. I mean that dude deserved whatever happened but how can two cops not unarm a dude with a knife without killing him.
How stupid does an unarmed guy have to be to try and grab a gun from anyone thinking if you don't get it... things will likely be okay? Such a move carries significant risk.
Exactly how many lunges would warrant an officer shooting someone?
I have said the case appears to be overkill multiple times now. But I have also said that Brown is not some innocent kid simply minding his own business until forced to deal with a rogue cop: he was a criminal doing criminal things that sparked an interaction with a cop that wasn't handled very well- by himself and the cop.
And in as much as the cop may have fanned the flames, Brown lit the fire until it was burning bright.
Excuse me if I think there may be another way the situation could have been handled by the cop.