Police abuse

1…6364666869…308

Comments

  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    edited August 2015
    Last-12-Exit said:



    I'm not sure why you think there is a gray area when it comes to law. Just because you do not like a law, doesn't mean it's a gray area. It also doesn't mean the law can't be changed if needed. In this specific case, the cops broke the law. They should be fired. It's quite alright to know what the law actually says before calling for people to be fired. Just as a lot of you wanted for Sandra blands arresting officer.

    It is a gray area though, the courts have ruled back and forth on the issue (and many others) based off specific circumstances and changing interpretations of the Constitution, which protects against undue search and seizure.
    The department is defending the search as not just legal, but procedurally correct, does that not also make it grey?
    When the servants of the law are allowed to determine the meaning of the law, grey area is all there is.
    Furthermore, the legality won't even be questioned unless the citizen pays money to hire a lawyer to file suit. Sounds like grey area to me, particularly given that in the moment when an officer makes an unlawful request, if you refuse resisting arrest is illegal regardless of the unlawful nature of the request.
    Illegal (and insanely immoral) request or not, this woman's only lawful choice in the moment is to comply with her own rape and seek redress later...what is black and white about that?
    Post edited by rgambs on
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • Drowned Out
    Drowned Out Posts: 6,056
    edited August 2015
    Thirty - Honestly, I don't remember what it was that made me say that, but I don't deny it. I've targeted you in the past for sure.
    Seems you stewed on that and my last comment for a bit? :lol:

    Yes, there was some hyperbole in what I 'tried to pass off', for sure. I guess it read like a shot at you (though I really did mean for it to apply to more people than just you). I don't think you think that belligerence is an excuse for murder, so my apologies for inferring that. Still, you clearly make a victim-blaming argument by essentially saying 'if he had just complied, he'd still be here'. And I see that approach all the time here and everywhere, not just from you. Do you see how it leads down the rabbit hole to justification of lethal force? I know I know...slippery slope arguments are a logical fallacy and a bad debate tactic. I take blame for that.

    Post edited by Drowned Out on
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    Drowned Out said:

    Thirty - Honestly, I don't remember what it was that made me say that, but I don't deny it. I've targeted you in the past for sure.
    Seems you stewed on that and my last comment for a bit? :lol:

    Yes, there was some hyperbole in what I 'tried to pass off', for sure. I guess it read like a shot at you (though I really did mean for it to apply to more people than just you). I don't think you think that belligerence is an excuse for murder, so my apologies for inferring that. Still, you clearly make a victim-blaming argument by essentially saying 'if he had just complied, he'd still be here'. And I see that approach all the time here and everywhere, not just from you. Do you see how it leads down the rabbit hole to justification of lethal force? I know I know...slippery slope arguments are a logical fallacy and a bad debate tactic. I take blame for that.

    Hey... I wasn't necessarily trying to bust your balls as much as I was pointing out what I did in the event you hadn't stopped to think about it. And, truthfully, I wasn't a big fan of those shots you took at me (I expressed as much at the time).

    I don't think the expression is very fair, but there is truth to the victim-blaming argument (as you have framed it). When people like me say (as you said in this response) 'if he had just complied, he'd still be here'... they are generally correct. I've already expressed it, but regardless of circumstances, I would have my son and all others for that matter be in full compliance and respectful when encountering police in any situation. No good can come out of becoming confrontational regardless of where one feels they might have a legitimate case for themselves. I don't leave things to fate when I can exercise an element of control. In these cases, the element of control I can exercise is self control. I don't want anyone I love to tempt someone to violence if they can be tempted. Of course I think police should be awesome, but the reality is they are human and humans are not always as ideal as we'd like them to be.

    This mentality by no means absolves any offending officer for excessive or deadly force. I feel strongly that in some of these cases this community has discussed, the officer in question should face serious charges.

    Side note:
    As you expressed, I have noted a little enthusiasm on your part for chasing me a bit on these boards. I haven't taken things very personal, but in the event I have managed to irritate beyond what is reasonable... please let me know if there is something about my approach that could be improved for better relations in the future.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • rr165892
    rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    Damnit.Would you two Canadians please carry on as usual.This civil crap is boring.Some of us don't just come on here for the stimulating conversation, I want to be entertained! Lol
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    edited August 2015
    .
    rr165892 said:

    Damnit.Would you two Canadians please carry on as usual.This civil crap is boring.Some of us don't just come on here for the stimulating conversation, I want to be entertained! Lol

    Hahahahahaha.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    Okay I admit it, I like Trump and sooo glad he's running. Don't agree with him but like him.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • Drowned Out
    Drowned Out Posts: 6,056
    30, you're a tough person to debate...you're smart, express yourself eloquently, have a good memory, and are just as bull-headed as I am on certain topics. :lol: Our beliefs seem just different enough to look for reasons to disagree despite us not being toooo far apart on a lot of things; we probably both do that a little. I'm sure I come across as a dick (and ya, arrogant) at times....and I fully admit that there are times I'm not exactly trying to avoid being one. I'm sure people in my private life would tell you the same....and hopefully laugh about it, cause they know my ball-busting is usually not intended to be venomous and adversarial, even if it's both pointed and blunt. (Does that make sense? haha) That approach doesn't translate well to text, though....intentionally being a dick is just intentionally being a dick without body language and familiarity. That's on me. I think we've been thru this before by PM....
    In the end, I respect your opinions.

    Can't say I disagree with what you've said above...but I think sometimes we all get backed into our respective corners, and our commonalities get lost in the noise. We have both agreed on what went wrong in both of my examples, yet here we are arguing the finer points...semantics, bascially.....still not sure if we agree on what the end results should be (or should have been since the killer cop already walked), but I could do better at working from common ground instead of hammering the wedge.

  • Drowned Out
    Drowned Out Posts: 6,056
    edited August 2015
    rr165892 said:

    Damnit.Would you two Canadians please carry on as usual.This civil crap is boring.Some of us don't just come on here for the stimulating conversation, I want to be entertained! Lol

    Too funny...I was just thinking as I posted....'this is way too fackin canadian, I'm making myself sick here'
    Sorry.

    :lol:
  • rr165892
    rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    I'm toasting both of you with Maple Syrup shots this evening.
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    Drowned Out said:

    30, you're a tough person to debate...you're smart, express yourself eloquently, have a good memory, and are just as bull-headed as I am on certain topics. :lol: Our beliefs seem just different enough to look for reasons to disagree despite us not being toooo far apart on a lot of things; we probably both do that a little. I'm sure I come across as a dick (and ya, arrogant) at times....and I fully admit that there are times I'm not exactly trying to avoid being one. I'm sure people in my private life would tell you the same....and hopefully laugh about it, cause they know my ball-busting is usually not intended to be venomous and adversarial, even if it's both pointed and blunt. (Does that make sense? haha) That approach doesn't translate well to text, though....intentionally being a dick is just intentionally being a dick without body language and familiarity. That's on me. I think we've been thru this before by PM....
    In the end, I respect your opinions.

    Can't say I disagree with what you've said above...but I think sometimes we all get backed into our respective corners, and our commonalities get lost in the noise. We have both agreed on what went wrong in both of my examples, yet here we are arguing the finer points...semantics, bascially.....still not sure if we agree on what the end results should be (or should have been since the killer cop already walked), but I could do better at working from common ground instead of hammering the wedge.

    I feel like I'm living on these boards- my response times lately are medal worthy.

    PM sent (placing the thread back on topic!).
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    Drowned Out said:

    30, you're a tough person to debate...you're smart, express yourself eloquently, have a good memory, and are just as bull-headed as I am on certain topics. :lol: Our beliefs seem just different enough to look for reasons to disagree despite us not being toooo far apart on a lot of things; we probably both do that a little. I'm sure I come across as a dick (and ya, arrogant) at times....and I fully admit that there are times I'm not exactly trying to avoid being one. I'm sure people in my private life would tell you the same....and hopefully laugh about it, cause they know my ball-busting is usually not intended to be venomous and adversarial, even if it's both pointed and blunt. (Does that make sense? haha) That approach doesn't translate well to text, though....intentionally being a dick is just intentionally being a dick without body language and familiarity. That's on me. I think we've been thru this before by PM....
    In the end, I respect your opinions.

    Can't say I disagree with what you've said above...but I think sometimes we all get backed into our respective corners, and our commonalities get lost in the noise. We have both agreed on what went wrong in both of my examples, yet here we are arguing the finer points...semantics, bascially.....still not sure if we agree on what the end results should be (or should have been since the killer cop already walked), but I could do better at working from common ground instead of hammering the wedge.

    I feel like I'm living on these boards- my response times lately are medal worthy.

    PM sent (placing the thread back on topic!).
    If the boards were a boat, you and I would be keeping it afloat lately lol
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • rr165892
    rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    Get s life boys
  • rr165892
    rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    A
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    rr165892 said:

    Get s life boys

    Get life boats?

    Are you making reference to RG's 'board is a boat' comment?
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • rr165892
    rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    No.im saying get outside.go smell some air.drink a beer or 2 if you feel like your living on the threads
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    rr165892 said:

    No.im saying get outside.go smell some air.drink a beer or 2 if you feel like your living on the threads

    Just sassin' ya.

    And forget that. I'm spending the rest of the summer glued to the website so I can win the 'Fastest Response Time' sticker.

    Stickers are made to be stuck on things.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • rr165892
    rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    Haha,go get em 30!
  • WhatYouTaughtMe
    WhatYouTaughtMe Posts: 4,957
    So it looks like the officer involved in the dealership shooting has been fired.

    Part of the police chief's statement,

    "This unilateral decision to enter the building and to continue the pursuit deeper into the building upon making contact with Mr. Taylor -- along with failing to communicate with fellow officers or develop an arrest plan -- created an environment of cascading consequences that produced an unrecoverable outcome"
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    Always amazed watching Alaska state troopers. Several times walked away from potentially lethal situation versus going in to get them as they would in every case in Texas. Yes I know they act different due to being on TV but the non escalating strategy works.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • rr165892
    rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    callen said:

    Always amazed watching Alaska state troopers. Several times walked away from potentially lethal situation versus going in to get them as they would in every case in Texas. Yes I know they act different due to being on TV but the non escalating strategy works.

    Sometimes.But there are times where force is not only needed but necessary.
This discussion has been closed.

Categories