Since it was ruled justified I would be very careful if you are out and about and you have your headphones on possibly turned up loud listening to Yellow Ledbetter.
What is this country coming to?
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Since it was ruled justified I would be very careful if you are out and about and you have your headphones on possibly turned up loud listening to Yellow Ledbetter.
What is this country coming to?
Peace
Here we go yet again.
No, G, I see absolutely no way this shooting can be called "justified".
How many time does this sort of thing have to happen before changes are made?
I really hope a lot of law enforcement personnel- cops, sheriffs, police chiefs, marshals, dispatchers, etc., start speaking out against this kind of insane behavior. There are (as we have seen numerous times in the Good Cop thread) some truly excellent, professional, brave, kind, discerning, scrupulous and intelligent law enforcement people out there. American law enforcement personnel would be wise to speak out on these travesties, not just for the sake of preventing unnecessary deaths, but for the sake of their own long-term well-being (see the article on British cops- they are safer than U.S. cops) and for the integrity of the profession as a whole. And of course the rest of us would do well to speak out against this kind of thing as well.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Since it was ruled justified I would be very careful if you are out and about and you have your headphones on possibly turned up loud listening to Yellow Ledbetter.
What is this country coming to?
Peace
Here we go yet again.
No, G, I see absolutely no way this shooting can be called "justified".
How many time does this sort of thing have to happen before changes are made?
I really hope a lot of law enforcement personnel- cops, sheriffs, police chiefs, marshals, dispatchers, etc., start speaking out against this kind of insane behavior. There are (as we have seen numerous times in the Good Cop thread) some truly excellent, professional, brave, kind, discerning, scrupulous and intelligent law enforcement people out there. American law enforcement personnel would be wise to speak out on these travesties, not just for the sake of preventing unnecessary deaths, but for the sake of their own long-term well-being (see the article on British cops- they are safer than U.S. cops) and for the integrity of the profession as a whole. And of course the rest of us would do well to speak out against this kind of thing as well.
Sadly B, in this country it appears some in law enforcement have the engrained mentality of shoot first then ask questions later. For the most some officers believe they will have backing of those who supervise them and that their worries or concerns in a shooting will be minimal. I liked what you posted about he Bristish enforcement system and their mental of policing is TOTALLY different than what we have here in this country. I lived outside of London for a short time and major efforts are made by police there to communicate and to work with the community than is done here in the U.S.
I don't know what will change here but it needs to soon. These are at times preventable shootings and gun violence in general needs to change.......I don't know I'm at a lost. I think I'm a bit down after being reminded today of the two boys lost out to sea. Maybe that's why it's been raining here every day for a week now.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
It was the D.A. that ruled this justified, not the cops supervisors.
Thank you but I already know that.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
It was the D.A. that ruled this justified, not the cops supervisors.
Thank you but I already know that.
Peace
I figured as much but you made the comment about cops not fearing repercussions because the supervisors would back them. But I was probably reading it wrong.
Since it was ruled justified I would be very careful if you are out and about and you have your headphones on possibly turned up loud listening to Yellow Ledbetter.
What is this country coming to?
Peace
Very sad. The article doesn't mention anything about why the police were there or give any background. Without making any assumptions there could be some crazy circumstances like it was reported he robbed the place or had a gun. Any more info on this? It looks like it happened awhile ago.
"In some cases, this disagreement may stem from an honest difference of opinion. Police violence -- and violence in general -- typically looks repulsive, whether you're watching it unfold in person or on video. It regularly leads to questions about whether a situation truly called for the level of force used, and whether anyone's civil rights were violated in the process. But when the question of what's "excessive" is left to an internal review process that tends to give officers a great deal of leeway, what might appear improper to the average citizen is often found to be justified in the eyes of the law.
A number of high-profile cases over the past few years suggest that something even more disturbing can happen when police are given the responsibility of self-reporting violence. The instances below offer clear evidence of cops -- and in some cases, their superiors -- attempting to sanitize, mischaracterize or simply lie about the use of force. They raise disquieting questions about what might have happened if videos of the incidents had never surfaced -- and how many similar incidents never become known to the public."
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Since it was ruled justified I would be very careful if you are out and about and you have your headphones on possibly turned up loud listening to Yellow Ledbetter.
What is this country coming to?
Peace
I just watched the video. Absolutely horrific.
The kid had headphones in, didn't even know the cop was barking instructions to him, turned around and realized shit was happening, and looked to be showing his hands just as the officer fired.
A clear cut case of abuse. The shot was fired 10 seconds into the video. No way can it be justified. If you want a cop villain... here you go.
Why were the cops called to the scene? Why had the officer drawn his weapon and chase after the guy? These are questions that need answering to try and make sense of this.
ANY official servant killed in line of duty that is trained to serve the public is tragic. That said I'm hoping they catch the culprit of this hideous crime.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
God forbid a cop get jumpy. He's a paid professional.
You forgot, "Oh well, he knew the risks. This was his job."
We don't know what happened, but if he had gotten the jump on his murderer and saved himself by killing him first... we would be spinning another 20 page thread discussing what a cold blooded, ruthless, racist he is and how shitty cops are.
The alternative scenario played out... and it's par for the course.
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
To some degree, I can accept the reasoning offered by the frame by frame accounting for the event leading to the shooting.
There's more grey area than meets the eye and I'm backing off 'slightly' from my original position.
The kid clearly knew the cop's had arrived. His two friends put their hands up. He walked away and ignored commands. The cop's were on high alert given what they were responding to. The cop needed to distinguish what the kid was reaching for in his waistband. Being uncertain, he fired his gun.
As it turns out... no gun. But it could have been. If it was and the cop delayed his response trying to be absolutely certain... he might have been shot like the one a few posts back.
Tough situation. I hated seeing the guy bleed out on the ground- it was horrific; however, he never helped himself and created a very tense scene that in hindsight played out poorly. Why not place the hands up like his two friends? Why turn your back to the officer and walk away? Why not pull your headphones out of your ears and say, "Whoa. Wtf? Everything's cool here, sir." And let the officers investigate the complaint to determine nothing was wrong.
With all that said... I'm not entirely sure where I sit with this one.
If people would just f**king listen and not resist... we would not be reading about these incidents. Outside of a few brutal cases (Thomas and Rice come to mind), every one of these police killings develop after the victim defies the officer. It forces the cop's hand and sometimes the cop doesn't play the hand in a manner that benefits the victim.
Being a cop is not an easy job. They don't have hindsight and they don't sit behind a computer screen when dealing with this stuff. They're right there in the moment and exposed.
Tough call indeed. However if an officer or anyone is pointing a gun at you comply. Why, because it's not too difficult to have an accidental discharge and one can be six feet under in the blink of an eye. It's sadly unfortunate for this youngster, possibly if he had not had his headphones on he could've properly hear the officers commands.
I wonder if a description of the alleged person with a gun matched Dillion's? Either way just an unfortunate set of circumstances that led up to his death.
peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
I watched and read everything.We have another tragic situation here,where had this kid been compliant like his friends he would still be alive.Personal responsibility. With the 911 call,witness account and actions of suspect,I believe the officer was indeed responding in an appropriate manner for the situation.Tragic yes,criminal no. What would of happened if the kid did have a weapon? The officer had no way to know and could only base his actions on known facts and circumstances,This officer should not face any legal issue at all.
Where is the community outrage for the 2 cops killed in the past week during traffic stops? Why are any of you calling for these murderers brought to justice?
Where is the community outrage for the 2 cops killed in the past week during traffic stops? Why are any of you calling for these murderers brought to justice?
The call for justice isn't needed. Nobody has to be convinced to chase these savage idiots down and bring them to justice. Nobody is going to falsify reports, obscure evidence, and band together to get them off the hook. There are no rules in place that make nearly any actions they take "justified".
Where is the community outrage for the 2 cops killed in the past week during traffic stops? Why are any of you calling for these murderers brought to justice?
It is getting a bit old hearing people compare police abuse to every other crime. "What about all the black on black crime?" To that I say, yeah, what about it? WTF does that have to do with it?
It is not the same thing when government abuses it's authority over civillians and when civillians commit crimes against each other.
Where is the community outrage for the 2 cops killed in the past week during traffic stops? Why are any of you calling for these murderers brought to justice?
It is getting a bit old hearing people compare police abuse to every other crime. "What about all the black on black crime?" To that I say, yeah, what about it? WTF does that have to do with it?
It is not the same thing when government abuses it's authority over civillians and when civillians commit crimes against each other.
Speaking to the "Black on black" violence Gambs.Thats something that is happening multiple times daily in our area.Every night on my local news we have a murder .There is a real problem in the predominantly black communities with that kind of thing, espescially in our area here in South Florida.Is it an economic issue,a family issue,a drug or gang issue ?
I guess what brings this into play in relation with the Police abuse issue is black leaders,family members,religious leaders and community activists form protests,jump on the media,do marches,get very vocal when a member of their community is killed at the hand of a white cop but when the way more prevalent ,daily black on black violence happens you hear crickets.Are those victims not as important because a black person pulled the trigger? Where is the outrage?
Where is the community outrage for the 2 cops killed in the past week during traffic stops? Why are any of you calling for these murderers brought to justice?
It is getting a bit old hearing people compare police abuse to every other crime. "What about all the black on black crime?" To that I say, yeah, what about it? WTF does that have to do with it?
It is not the same thing when government abuses it's authority over civillians and when civillians commit crimes against each other.
Speaking to the "Black on black" violence Gambs.Thats something that is happening multiple times daily in our area.Every night on my local news we have a murder .There is a real problem in the predominantly black communities with that kind of thing, espescially in our area here in South Florida.Is it an economic issue,a family issue,a drug or gang issue ?
I guess what brings this into play in relation with the Police abuse issue is black leaders,family members,religious leaders and community activists form protests,jump on the media,do marches,get very vocal when a member of their community is killed at the hand of a white cop but when the way more prevalent ,daily black on black violence happens you hear crickets.Are those victims not as important because a black person pulled the trigger? Where is the outrage?
Where is the community outrage for the 2 cops killed in the past week during traffic stops? Why are any of you calling for these murderers brought to justice?
It is getting a bit old hearing people compare police abuse to every other crime. "What about all the black on black crime?" To that I say, yeah, what about it? WTF does that have to do with it?
It is not the same thing when government abuses it's authority over civillians and when civillians commit crimes against each other.
Speaking to the "Black on black" violence Gambs.Thats something that is happening multiple times daily in our area.Every night on my local news we have a murder .There is a real problem in the predominantly black communities with that kind of thing, espescially in our area here in South Florida.Is it an economic issue,a family issue,a drug or gang issue ?
I guess what brings this into play in relation with the Police abuse issue is black leaders,family members,religious leaders and community activists form protests,jump on the media,do marches,get very vocal when a member of their community is killed at the hand of a white cop but when the way more prevalent ,daily black on black violence happens you hear crickets.Are those victims not as important because a black person pulled the trigger? Where is the outrage?
It's not about the victims being less important, it's about the perpetrator being more important. When people in a position of authority abuse that authority, it is a problem that is wholly different than peers abusing each other. I don't see why you guys continue to ignore that point that I keep making. The young black men who murder each other are not paid by the government to protect each other, and they are held fully accountable to the law when they are caught.
If a teacher, doctor, or priest abuses their students, patients, or parishioners is it the same to you as students, patients, and parishioners abusing each other?
Where is the community outrage for the 2 cops killed in the past week during traffic stops? Why are any of you calling for these murderers brought to justice?
It is getting a bit old hearing people compare police abuse to every other crime. "What about all the black on black crime?" To that I say, yeah, what about it? WTF does that have to do with it?
It is not the same thing when government abuses it's authority over civillians and when civillians commit crimes against each other.
Speaking to the "Black on black" violence Gambs.Thats something that is happening multiple times daily in our area.Every night on my local news we have a murder .There is a real problem in the predominantly black communities with that kind of thing, espescially in our area here in South Florida.Is it an economic issue,a family issue,a drug or gang issue ?
I guess what brings this into play in relation with the Police abuse issue is black leaders,family members,religious leaders and community activists form protests,jump on the media,do marches,get very vocal when a member of their community is killed at the hand of a white cop but when the way more prevalent ,daily black on black violence happens you hear crickets.Are those victims not as important because a black person pulled the trigger? Where is the outrage?
#blacklivesmatter. I get it. They absolutely do.What I question is whether its true WITHIN the black commuity as a whole. Some quarters , it doesn't appear so.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Where is the community outrage for the 2 cops killed in the past week during traffic stops? Why are any of you calling for these murderers brought to justice?
It is getting a bit old hearing people compare police abuse to every other crime. "What about all the black on black crime?" To that I say, yeah, what about it? WTF does that have to do with it?
It is not the same thing when government abuses it's authority over civillians and when civillians commit crimes against each other.
I don't believe I brought up race. And this is not comparing police abuse to every other crime. It's asking why the cop haters aren't outraged that 2 police officers were killed in the line of duty. But I'm sure some of the cop haters will think they had it comin'.
Comments
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/06/03/1390285/-Shocking-new-video-shows-unarmed-Utah-man-was-listening-to-headphones-when-killed-by-police
Since it was ruled justified I would be very careful if you are out and about and you have your headphones on possibly turned up loud listening to Yellow Ledbetter.
What is this country coming to?
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
But it clearly could have been handled better. Why not have the taser instead of his gun?
No, G, I see absolutely no way this shooting can be called "justified".
How many time does this sort of thing have to happen before changes are made?
I really hope a lot of law enforcement personnel- cops, sheriffs, police chiefs, marshals, dispatchers, etc., start speaking out against this kind of insane behavior. There are (as we have seen numerous times in the Good Cop thread) some truly excellent, professional, brave, kind, discerning, scrupulous and intelligent law enforcement people out there. American law enforcement personnel would be wise to speak out on these travesties, not just for the sake of preventing unnecessary deaths, but for the sake of their own long-term well-being (see the article on British cops- they are safer than U.S. cops) and for the integrity of the profession as a whole. And of course the rest of us would do well to speak out against this kind of thing as well.
I don't know what will change here but it needs to soon. These are at times preventable shootings and gun violence in general needs to change.......I don't know I'm at a lost. I think I'm a bit down after being reminded today of the two boys lost out to sea. Maybe that's why it's been raining here every day for a week now.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/police-brutality-reports_55b65b79e4b0074ba5a53417?cps=gravity_5119_-6936728642164981236
"In some cases, this disagreement may stem from an honest difference of opinion. Police violence -- and violence in general -- typically looks repulsive, whether you're watching it unfold in person or on video. It regularly leads to questions about whether a situation truly called for the level of force used, and whether anyone's civil rights were violated in the process. But when the question of what's "excessive" is left to an internal review process that tends to give officers a great deal of leeway, what might appear improper to the average citizen is often found to be justified in the eyes of the law.
A number of high-profile cases over the past few years suggest that something even more disturbing can happen when police are given the responsibility of self-reporting violence. The instances below offer clear evidence of cops -- and in some cases, their superiors -- attempting to sanitize, mischaracterize or simply lie about the use of force. They raise disquieting questions about what might have happened if videos of the incidents had never surfaced -- and how many similar incidents never become known to the public."
The kid had headphones in, didn't even know the cop was barking instructions to him, turned around and realized shit was happening, and looked to be showing his hands just as the officer fired.
A clear cut case of abuse. The shot was fired 10 seconds into the video. No way can it be justified. If you want a cop villain... here you go.
Why were the cops called to the scene? Why had the officer drawn his weapon and chase after the guy? These are questions that need answering to try and make sense of this.
As always we must look at both sides.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/02/us/memphis-officer-killed-traffic-stop/index.html
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
We don't know what happened, but if he had gotten the jump on his murderer and saved himself by killing him first... we would be spinning another 20 page thread discussing what a cold blooded, ruthless, racist he is and how shitty cops are.
The alternative scenario played out... and it's par for the course.
http://www.sltrib.com/specialreports/1638186-155/taylor-police-cruz-gun-officer-shooting
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
There's more grey area than meets the eye and I'm backing off 'slightly' from my original position.
The kid clearly knew the cop's had arrived. His two friends put their hands up. He walked away and ignored commands. The cop's were on high alert given what they were responding to. The cop needed to distinguish what the kid was reaching for in his waistband. Being uncertain, he fired his gun.
As it turns out... no gun. But it could have been. If it was and the cop delayed his response trying to be absolutely certain... he might have been shot like the one a few posts back.
Tough situation. I hated seeing the guy bleed out on the ground- it was horrific; however, he never helped himself and created a very tense scene that in hindsight played out poorly. Why not place the hands up like his two friends? Why turn your back to the officer and walk away? Why not pull your headphones out of your ears and say, "Whoa. Wtf? Everything's cool here, sir." And let the officers investigate the complaint to determine nothing was wrong.
With all that said... I'm not entirely sure where I sit with this one.
If people would just f**king listen and not resist... we would not be reading about these incidents. Outside of a few brutal cases (Thomas and Rice come to mind), every one of these police killings develop after the victim defies the officer. It forces the cop's hand and sometimes the cop doesn't play the hand in a manner that benefits the victim.
Being a cop is not an easy job. They don't have hindsight and they don't sit behind a computer screen when dealing with this stuff. They're right there in the moment and exposed.
I wonder if a description of the alleged person with a gun matched Dillion's? Either way just an unfortunate set of circumstances that led up to his death.
peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
With the 911 call,witness account and actions of suspect,I believe the officer was indeed responding in an appropriate manner for the situation.Tragic yes,criminal no.
What would of happened if the kid did have a weapon? The officer had no way to know and could only base his actions on known facts and circumstances,This officer should not face any legal issue at all.
Nobody is going to falsify reports, obscure evidence, and band together to get them off the hook.
There are no rules in place that make nearly any actions they take "justified".
That's why.
"What about all the black on black crime?"
To that I say, yeah, what about it? WTF does that have to do with it?
It is not the same thing when government abuses it's authority over civillians and when civillians commit crimes against each other.
I guess what brings this into play in relation with the Police abuse issue is black leaders,family members,religious leaders and community activists form protests,jump on the media,do marches,get very vocal when a member of their community is killed at the hand of a white cop but when the way more prevalent ,daily black on black violence happens you hear crickets.Are those victims not as important because a black person pulled the trigger? Where is the outrage?
When people in a position of authority abuse that authority, it is a problem that is wholly different than peers abusing each other.
I don't see why you guys continue to ignore that point that I keep making.
The young black men who murder each other are not paid by the government to protect each other, and they are held fully accountable to the law when they are caught.
If a teacher, doctor, or priest abuses their students, patients, or parishioners is it the same to you as students, patients, and parishioners abusing each other?
Woo hoo more fraakin guns and god bless the US and Guns. God loves Guns. And executions. Woo hoo.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14