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Police abuse

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    FiveBelowFiveBelow Lubbock, TX Posts: 1,197
    dignin said:
    FiveBelow said:
    dignin said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    dignin said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    tbergs said:
    cutz said:






    image

    That USA statistic is misleading. Many states require at least a 2 year degree and several departments even require 4 years. Those states that don't require post secondary education are fucked up. For reference though, MN has some of the highest standards and look what happened here in the last 5 years.
    Statistic mentions nothing about population as well. Another useless Twitter meme  that people will believe automatically because they want to. 
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1124039/police-killings-rate-selected-countries/

     Rate of police killings per 10 million residents

    United States 33.5
    Canada** 9.8
    Australia*** 8.5
    The Netherlands 2.3
    New Zealand**** 2
    Germany**** 1.3
    England and Wales 0.5
    Japan**** 0.2
    Iceland**** 0
    Norway**** 0
    Cool. Crime statistics? Amount of illegal firearms in the streets? Drugs? Etc... it’s a useless meme 
    And there goes the goalpost again.
    Challenging someone to think more broadly is not moving the goal posts. The funny thing about statistics is they are easy to manipulate, especially when you choose not to factor in all of the comparable data.

    Are you arguing that the stats I posted are factually incorrect? 
    I am questioning if other factors such as guns or crimes may have something to do with why the numbers are inflated. Both of those things lead to more interaction with the police and ultimately more deaths, one would assume. 
  • Options
    HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 35,870
    FiveBelow said:
    dignin said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    dignin said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    tbergs said:
    cutz said:






    image

    That USA statistic is misleading. Many states require at least a 2 year degree and several departments even require 4 years. Those states that don't require post secondary education are fucked up. For reference though, MN has some of the highest standards and look what happened here in the last 5 years.
    Statistic mentions nothing about population as well. Another useless Twitter meme  that people will believe automatically because they want to. 
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1124039/police-killings-rate-selected-countries/

     Rate of police killings per 10 million residents

    United States 33.5
    Canada** 9.8
    Australia*** 8.5
    The Netherlands 2.3
    New Zealand**** 2
    Germany**** 1.3
    England and Wales 0.5
    Japan**** 0.2
    Iceland**** 0
    Norway**** 0
    Cool. Crime statistics? Amount of illegal firearms in the streets? Drugs? Etc... it’s a useless meme 
    And there goes the goalpost again.
    Challenging someone to think more broadly is not moving the goal posts. The funny thing about statistics is they are easy to manipulate, especially when you choose not to factor in all of the comparable data.

    tbergs said:
    it never fails. every time someone posts actual stats with something to do with gun violence in the US, someone always decides it needs "more context", which somehow explains/excuses the disparity between the US and every other nation on the planet. 
    Tell me where that happened in the last 10 posts? I said the meme was shit, which it is.

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  • Options
    nicknyr15nicknyr15 Posts: 7,840
    dignin said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    dignin said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    tbergs said:
    cutz said:






    image

    That USA statistic is misleading. Many states require at least a 2 year degree and several departments even require 4 years. Those states that don't require post secondary education are fucked up. For reference though, MN has some of the highest standards and look what happened here in the last 5 years.
    Statistic mentions nothing about population as well. Another useless Twitter meme  that people will believe automatically because they want to. 
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1124039/police-killings-rate-selected-countries/

     Rate of police killings per 10 million residents

    United States 33.5
    Canada** 9.8
    Australia*** 8.5
    The Netherlands 2.3
    New Zealand**** 2
    Germany**** 1.3
    England and Wales 0.5
    Japan**** 0.2
    Iceland**** 0
    Norway**** 0
    Cool. Crime statistics? Amount of illegal firearms in the streets? Drugs? Etc... it’s a useless meme 
    And there goes the goalpost again.
    Yes because none of these things factor in to police encounters. Right? Places like Chicago, NYC, Compton etc. sure. 
  • Options
    dignindignin Posts: 9,303
    tbergs said:
    dignin said:
    tbergs said:
    dignin said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    dignin said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    tbergs said:
    cutz said:






    image

    That USA statistic is misleading. Many states require at least a 2 year degree and several departments even require 4 years. Those states that don't require post secondary education are fucked up. For reference though, MN has some of the highest standards and look what happened here in the last 5 years.
    Statistic mentions nothing about population as well. Another useless Twitter meme  that people will believe automatically because they want to. 
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1124039/police-killings-rate-selected-countries/

     Rate of police killings per 10 million residents

    United States 33.5
    Canada** 9.8
    Australia*** 8.5
    The Netherlands 2.3
    New Zealand**** 2
    Germany**** 1.3
    England and Wales 0.5
    Japan**** 0.2
    Iceland**** 0
    Norway**** 0
    Cool. Crime statistics? Amount of illegal firearms in the streets? Drugs? Etc... it’s a useless meme 
    And there goes the goalpost again.
    Goalposts? The standard was set by a meme which got questioned for it's conveniently misleading info. Better go buck to the locker room and get a new game plan.
    Did you read the statistics I posted?

    Turns out the shitty meme wasn't wrong. The stats back it up, then the goalposts moved. So I don't understand what you have a problem with. 
    I'm not questioning the number of shootings. Did you read my initial criticism? The statement about qualifications was misleading.
    My comment wasn't directed at you. I gave an answer to someone who wanted a comparison based on population, just the facts.
  • Options
    dignindignin Posts: 9,303
    FiveBelow said:
    dignin said:
    FiveBelow said:
    dignin said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    dignin said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    tbergs said:
    cutz said:






    image

    That USA statistic is misleading. Many states require at least a 2 year degree and several departments even require 4 years. Those states that don't require post secondary education are fucked up. For reference though, MN has some of the highest standards and look what happened here in the last 5 years.
    Statistic mentions nothing about population as well. Another useless Twitter meme  that people will believe automatically because they want to. 
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1124039/police-killings-rate-selected-countries/

     Rate of police killings per 10 million residents

    United States 33.5
    Canada** 9.8
    Australia*** 8.5
    The Netherlands 2.3
    New Zealand**** 2
    Germany**** 1.3
    England and Wales 0.5
    Japan**** 0.2
    Iceland**** 0
    Norway**** 0
    Cool. Crime statistics? Amount of illegal firearms in the streets? Drugs? Etc... it’s a useless meme 
    And there goes the goalpost again.
    Challenging someone to think more broadly is not moving the goal posts. The funny thing about statistics is they are easy to manipulate, especially when you choose not to factor in all of the comparable data.

    Are you arguing that the stats I posted are factually incorrect? 
    I am questioning if other factors such as guns or crimes may have something to do with why the numbers are inflated. Both of those things lead to more interaction with the police and ultimately more deaths, one would assume. 
    Of course they would to a degree. My response was directly related to this comment "Statistic mentions nothing about population as well".


  • Options
    Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 6,163
    static111 said:
    tbergs said:
    Anyone claiming the 2 stories were covered the same is full of shit. Excuse my vulgarity. Race related shootings get the clicks over ho-hum white shootings unless it's mass casualty (where whites have the market cornered).
    mcgruff10 said:
    dankind said:
    tbergs said:
    Anyone claiming the 2 stories were covered the same is full of shit. Excuse my vulgarity. Race related shootings get the clicks over ho-hum white shootings unless it's mass casualty (where whites have the market cornered).
    Good thing no one claimed that. 
    Then what were you implying in your mini rant?  Sure seemed like it to me.  

    My point is you damn well know if that was a black kid and a white cop there would have been a huge outcry and this story would have been front page news for days.  There was zero reason for that cop to shoot a second time when the kid raised his knife.  Couldn’t The cop could walk backwards ten steps to avoid the knife?
    the media and many posters in this forum post what they want to support their narrative.  You and I both know this. 
    I think they are covered differently because there is like 300 years of marginalization and over policing of one of these demographics. I could be wrong?  Both are horrible. Unfortunately only one of the cultural groups has this kind of mistake happen at a much higher rate coupled with problems of a system that was designed against them.


    Over policing in a country ranked 14th in murder and rape and 20th in robbery. Is that possible?
  • Options
    static111static111 Posts: 4,889
    static111 said:
    tbergs said:
    Anyone claiming the 2 stories were covered the same is full of shit. Excuse my vulgarity. Race related shootings get the clicks over ho-hum white shootings unless it's mass casualty (where whites have the market cornered).
    mcgruff10 said:
    dankind said:
    tbergs said:
    Anyone claiming the 2 stories were covered the same is full of shit. Excuse my vulgarity. Race related shootings get the clicks over ho-hum white shootings unless it's mass casualty (where whites have the market cornered).
    Good thing no one claimed that. 
    Then what were you implying in your mini rant?  Sure seemed like it to me.  

    My point is you damn well know if that was a black kid and a white cop there would have been a huge outcry and this story would have been front page news for days.  There was zero reason for that cop to shoot a second time when the kid raised his knife.  Couldn’t The cop could walk backwards ten steps to avoid the knife?
    the media and many posters in this forum post what they want to support their narrative.  You and I both know this. 
    I think they are covered differently because there is like 300 years of marginalization and over policing of one of these demographics. I could be wrong?  Both are horrible. Unfortunately only one of the cultural groups has this kind of mistake happen at a much higher rate coupled with problems of a system that was designed against them.


    Over policing in a country ranked 14th in murder and rape and 20th in robbery. Is that possible?
    If the policing isn’t applied equally it certainly is a problem 
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  • Options
    Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 6,163
    dignin said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    tbergs said:
    cutz said:






    image

    That USA statistic is misleading. Many states require at least a 2 year degree and several departments even require 4 years. Those states that don't require post secondary education are fucked up. For reference though, MN has some of the highest standards and look what happened here in the last 5 years.
    Statistic mentions nothing about population as well. Another useless Twitter meme  that people will believe automatically because they want to. 
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1124039/police-killings-rate-selected-countries/

     Rate of police killings per 10 million residents

    United States 33.5
    Canada** 9.8
    Australia*** 8.5
    The Netherlands 2.3
    New Zealand**** 2
    Germany**** 1.3
    England and Wales 0.5
    Japan**** 0.2
    Iceland**** 0
    Norway**** 0

    And the largest group of USA victims are white. By a lot. 

    Until liberals and conservatives are honest with each other, that the US is a top 20 crime country and with by far the most guns on the street, it is a brutally dangerous job to police the streets.

    Yet we still have other commenters calling the Daunte case “murder “ and continue to ignore the risks he decided to take over the last couple of years in his life in a very dangerous country that eventually put him into a high risk confrontation with the cops.

    Taser errors have been historically categorized as manslaughter and the conviction rate is extremely low.
  • Options
    mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,938
    dignin said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    tbergs said:
    cutz said:






    image

    That USA statistic is misleading. Many states require at least a 2 year degree and several departments even require 4 years. Those states that don't require post secondary education are fucked up. For reference though, MN has some of the highest standards and look what happened here in the last 5 years.
    Statistic mentions nothing about population as well. Another useless Twitter meme  that people will believe automatically because they want to. 
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1124039/police-killings-rate-selected-countries/

     Rate of police killings per 10 million residents

    United States 33.5
    Canada** 9.8
    Australia*** 8.5
    The Netherlands 2.3
    New Zealand**** 2
    Germany**** 1.3
    England and Wales 0.5
    Japan**** 0.2
    Iceland**** 0
    Norway**** 0

    And the largest group of USA victims are white. By a lot. 

    Until liberals and conservatives are honest with each other, that the US is a top 20 crime country and with by far the most guns on the street, it is a brutally dangerous job to police the streets.

    Yet we still have other commenters calling the Daunte case “murder “ and continue to ignore the risks he decided to take over the last couple of years in his life in a very dangerous country that eventually put him into a high risk confrontation with the cops.

    Taser errors have been historically categorized as manslaughter and the conviction rate is extremely low.

    white victims make sense because white americans are the majority by a lot. so stop that shit. its disingenuous.
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  • Options
    FiveBelowFiveBelow Lubbock, TX Posts: 1,197
    dignin said:
    FiveBelow said:
    dignin said:
    FiveBelow said:
    dignin said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    dignin said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    tbergs said:
    cutz said:






    image

    That USA statistic is misleading. Many states require at least a 2 year degree and several departments even require 4 years. Those states that don't require post secondary education are fucked up. For reference though, MN has some of the highest standards and look what happened here in the last 5 years.
    Statistic mentions nothing about population as well. Another useless Twitter meme  that people will believe automatically because they want to. 
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1124039/police-killings-rate-selected-countries/

     Rate of police killings per 10 million residents

    United States 33.5
    Canada** 9.8
    Australia*** 8.5
    The Netherlands 2.3
    New Zealand**** 2
    Germany**** 1.3
    England and Wales 0.5
    Japan**** 0.2
    Iceland**** 0
    Norway**** 0
    Cool. Crime statistics? Amount of illegal firearms in the streets? Drugs? Etc... it’s a useless meme 
    And there goes the goalpost again.
    Challenging someone to think more broadly is not moving the goal posts. The funny thing about statistics is they are easy to manipulate, especially when you choose not to factor in all of the comparable data.

    Are you arguing that the stats I posted are factually incorrect? 
    I am questioning if other factors such as guns or crimes may have something to do with why the numbers are inflated. Both of those things lead to more interaction with the police and ultimately more deaths, one would assume. 
    Of course they would to a degree. My response was directly related to this comment "Statistic mentions nothing about population as well".


    I understand, but I commented when you made the goalpost remark and I feel the points nick brought up are important in trying to understand why these things happen. I don’t see that as moving the goalposts, I see it as someone who is willing to look at the bigger picture when attempting to compare police violence. 
  • Options
    Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 6,163
    static111 said:
    static111 said:
    tbergs said:
    Anyone claiming the 2 stories were covered the same is full of shit. Excuse my vulgarity. Race related shootings get the clicks over ho-hum white shootings unless it's mass casualty (where whites have the market cornered).
    mcgruff10 said:
    dankind said:
    tbergs said:
    Anyone claiming the 2 stories were covered the same is full of shit. Excuse my vulgarity. Race related shootings get the clicks over ho-hum white shootings unless it's mass casualty (where whites have the market cornered).
    Good thing no one claimed that. 
    Then what were you implying in your mini rant?  Sure seemed like it to me.  

    My point is you damn well know if that was a black kid and a white cop there would have been a huge outcry and this story would have been front page news for days.  There was zero reason for that cop to shoot a second time when the kid raised his knife.  Couldn’t The cop could walk backwards ten steps to avoid the knife?
    the media and many posters in this forum post what they want to support their narrative.  You and I both know this. 
    I think they are covered differently because there is like 300 years of marginalization and over policing of one of these demographics. I could be wrong?  Both are horrible. Unfortunately only one of the cultural groups has this kind of mistake happen at a much higher rate coupled with problems of a system that was designed against them.


    Over policing in a country ranked 14th in murder and rape and 20th in robbery. Is that possible?
    If the policing isn’t applied equally it certainly is a problem 


    And once the policing is based on crime stats and done equally to where the crimes occur they are then racially profiling and are pressured to be fired? Or are you referring to the fact whites have perished at the hands of police more than any other demographic, by double?

    My point was the US is a dangerous country, based on murder, rape, gun and robbery statistics. Many of us keep pretending we live in a safer places like Canada UK or Australia but we clearly do not. And a major contributor to these terrible stats, their leaders refuse to hold their community accountable when evidence of dangerous crimes exist.
  • Options
    Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,678
    I thought all of those “responsible” gun owners with multiple firearms in their possession made US safer? Wayne LaPue has been lying to us all this time? “The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.” Is that not true?
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

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    tbergstbergs Posts: 9,261
    edited April 2021
    I thought all of those “responsible” gun owners with multiple firearms in their possession made US safer? Wayne LaPue has been lying to us all this time? “The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.” Is that not true?
    It's true, but everyone is a good guy that legally owns a gun ;)
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • Options
    Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,678
    tbergs said:
    I thought all of those “responsible” gun owners with multiple firearms in their possession made US safer? Wayne LaPue has been lying to us all this time? “The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.” Is that not true?
    It's true, but everyone is a good guy that legally owns a gun ;)
    But are they “responsible?”
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

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  • Options
    FiveBelowFiveBelow Lubbock, TX Posts: 1,197
    FiveBelow said:
    dignin said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    dignin said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    tbergs said:
    cutz said:






    image

    That USA statistic is misleading. Many states require at least a 2 year degree and several departments even require 4 years. Those states that don't require post secondary education are fucked up. For reference though, MN has some of the highest standards and look what happened here in the last 5 years.
    Statistic mentions nothing about population as well. Another useless Twitter meme  that people will believe automatically because they want to. 
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1124039/police-killings-rate-selected-countries/

     Rate of police killings per 10 million residents

    United States 33.5
    Canada** 9.8
    Australia*** 8.5
    The Netherlands 2.3
    New Zealand**** 2
    Germany**** 1.3
    England and Wales 0.5
    Japan**** 0.2
    Iceland**** 0
    Norway**** 0
    Cool. Crime statistics? Amount of illegal firearms in the streets? Drugs? Etc... it’s a useless meme 
    And there goes the goalpost again.
    Challenging someone to think more broadly is not moving the goal posts. The funny thing about statistics is they are easy to manipulate, especially when you choose not to factor in all of the comparable data.

    tbergs said:
    it never fails. every time someone posts actual stats with something to do with gun violence in the US, someone always decides it needs "more context", which somehow explains/excuses the disparity between the US and every other nation on the planet. 
    Tell me where that happened in the last 10 posts? I said the meme was shit, which it is.

    I find it very strange how a logical thought process is often not well received around here. Seems to be either you agree wholeheartedly or else. Imagine if say science chose not to use logic, fortunately for all of us that is not the case.
  • Options
    cblock4lifecblock4life Posts: 1,412
    edited April 2021
    static111 said:
    CM189191 said:



    Kim Potter....another responsible gun owner!

    I own a gun and like blunts.  Should I be murdered for an air freshener hanging from my rearview mirror?



    The reason this pisses me off so much is because a similar scenario happened to me.  Pulled over in MN for an air freshener.  One of those stupid little pine trees.

    I'm driving home from Des Moines to Minneapolis.  I got my car washed in Iowa.  They put the air freshener there, being unfamiliar with MN air freshener laws.  I was a recent transplant, also unfamiliar with MN air freshener law.   

    Cop comes up to the car and the air freshener was an obvious excuse to stick his nose in my car and start poking around.  He starts asking questions, trying find something, anything to pin on me.  Unnecessarily and intentionally trying to get me riled up. 

    I'm professional, and was wearing a suit at the time.  Being fresh out of college, they question me for being too young to be so professional.  So many questions: who are you, where are you going, anything in the car, and so on.  

    It was never about the air freshener.  It was about harassing someone just trying to get home from work.
    I'd be pissed too if I were you in that scenario. And nobody think he should've been shot. But let's throw out the notion that it was an accidental discharge, and go with the popular narrative around here that cops hunt black people and want to murder them. And as a lot of people say, even if you comply, you can still get killed. Alright, well then if you don't comply, you're likely going to get killed. So why resist and put yourself at the mercy of racist cops?  I don't know. It's horrible that he shot like that and the cop should face major consequences. But while you both got pulled for air-fresheners (which is dumb in it's own right), you didn't have an active warrant that would require an arrest. And if you did, I doubt you're trying to break from the handcuffs and speed away. 
    Literally no one has said that around here.  What has been said over and over is that there is racism inherent in our policing system and that for some reason(racism) cops are more scared of their lives at a traffic stop with People of Color than they are with white mass shooters.  People the. Bend over backwards to come up with any theory they can that doesn’t point to the issue, which is systemic racism and bad policing.  Then obfuscate the facts with made up anecdotes about hunting people...
    That's fair enough, I attributed a LeBron James quote to this place based on a similar sentiments, which I shouldn't do.




    Is that not true? Are you that fucking blind? To inherent, systemic racism through all levels of ‘Murican society? From birth to death, no less.

    Is it true that black people are, as James says here, "literally hunted EVERYDAY/EVERYTIME we step foot outside the comfort of our homes!"? No, it's not.  

    Do you not think that every time a black person leaves their home, they wonder if they'll come home alive? Do you worry about that yourself? Probably not because I assume that you're white. That's what white privilege is.

    Y'all acting like this is just one instance and want to isolate it as such, to make it seem that its not "systemic" or a "problem." If they had only complied. Fucking George Floyd complied and was murdered. Breonna Taylor was sleeping in her bed. Ahmaud Arbery was out for a jog. James Byrd was walking home. In 1998. Not all killed by cops but if nobody noticed, would there have been consequences?

    And y'all should go back to page 1 of this thread and read forward. One of the OP's outrages had to do with someone who was beaten to death by cops (not arguing it was okay). He had somewhere around 96 previous run ins with law enforcement. And he was white. 96 > 2. Can't even go to church without looking over their shoulder. Hunted? Seems like it.
    If you want the truth then you need to speak with an array of black people (not LeBron James). Not all feel like they’re “hunted” but they do know they’re treated differently (just like women).  Black people teach their children to be aware at all times and they hear it from the time they’re little.  They’re probably scared to death and full of hate towards all cops. One good cop will not erase a lifetime of racism, discrimination, or simply being taught their “true” history.  What should black parents do?  

    So, again a one year old black child with no father.  It’s an ugly vicious circle and if you believe this child will grow up loving and respecting cops it’s not going to happen.  Talk to black convicts and they unanimously admit that their upbringing totally affected the rest of their lives (see they don’t blame whites for everything).  In order to change our opinions we need to look at all factors not just the ones we understand or agree with. 
    See, here's how it really is. Not hyperbolic bullshit that "every time a black person leaves their home, they wonder if they'll come home alive."
    Why do black parents teach their children how to behave outside the home, particularly around law enforcement encounters? "Hyperbolic bullshit."
    https://www.pbs.org/black-culture/connect/talk-back/10_rules_of_survival_if_stopped_by_police/ 

    watch the video also 
    Post edited by cblock4life on
  • Options
    static111static111 Posts: 4,889
    static111 said:
    static111 said:
    tbergs said:
    Anyone claiming the 2 stories were covered the same is full of shit. Excuse my vulgarity. Race related shootings get the clicks over ho-hum white shootings unless it's mass casualty (where whites have the market cornered).
    mcgruff10 said:
    dankind said:
    tbergs said:
    Anyone claiming the 2 stories were covered the same is full of shit. Excuse my vulgarity. Race related shootings get the clicks over ho-hum white shootings unless it's mass casualty (where whites have the market cornered).
    Good thing no one claimed that. 
    Then what were you implying in your mini rant?  Sure seemed like it to me.  

    My point is you damn well know if that was a black kid and a white cop there would have been a huge outcry and this story would have been front page news for days.  There was zero reason for that cop to shoot a second time when the kid raised his knife.  Couldn’t The cop could walk backwards ten steps to avoid the knife?
    the media and many posters in this forum post what they want to support their narrative.  You and I both know this. 
    I think they are covered differently because there is like 300 years of marginalization and over policing of one of these demographics. I could be wrong?  Both are horrible. Unfortunately only one of the cultural groups has this kind of mistake happen at a much higher rate coupled with problems of a system that was designed against them.


    Over policing in a country ranked 14th in murder and rape and 20th in robbery. Is that possible?
    If the policing isn’t applied equally it certainly is a problem 


    And once the policing is based on crime stats and done equally to where the crimes occur they are then racially profiling and are pressured to be fired? Or are you referring to the fact whites have perished at the hands of police more than any other demographic, by double?

    My point was the US is a dangerous country, based on murder, rape, gun and robbery statistics. Many of us keep pretending we live in a safer places like Canada UK or Australia but we clearly do not. And a major contributor to these terrible stats, their leaders refuse to hold their community accountable when evidence of dangerous crimes exist.
    The majority population by percent of population gets killed less and gets treated better overall by cops, stop it with the nonsense of more white people in a majority white country.

    if we police in high crime areas and they then end up being predominantly minority we have to ask, how did these communities get there historically? Which brings up many things white peiple don’t want to talk about, Jim Crow, discrimination, redlining the highway system being used as a tool to segregate and decentralize minority neighborhoods, not putting tax dollars into certain school districts etc.
    Scio me nihil scire

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    dignindignin Posts: 9,303
    Loveland police officer on leave after arrest video of 73-year-old woman with dementia
  • Options
    HobbesHobbes Pacific Northwest Posts: 6,390
    dankind said:
    Police be all, "We need to improve our image... Hey, some journalists! Get 'em!" :dizzy:
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    Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,678
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

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    Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 10,532
    Where are the 1A advocates at? 

    Where are all the originalists speaking out against this clear violation of the first amendment?
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    tbergstbergs Posts: 9,261
    I don't get why they fuck with the media. It's completely stupid. I'm sure they want everyone gone, but that's not how it works.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/bringmethenews.com/.amp/minnesota-news/photographer-reports-being-maced-and-punched-by-police-other-journalists-detained
    It's a hopeless situation...
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    dankinddankind I am not your foot. Posts: 20,827
    tbergs said:
    I don't get why they fuck with the media. It's completely stupid. I'm sure they want everyone gone, but that's not how it works.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/bringmethenews.com/.amp/minnesota-news/photographer-reports-being-maced-and-punched-by-police-other-journalists-detained
    Because journalists are the enemy of the (police) state. Remember. 
    I SAW PEARL JAM
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    mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,938
    dankind said:
    tbergs said:
    I don't get why they fuck with the media. It's completely stupid. I'm sure they want everyone gone, but that's not how it works.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/bringmethenews.com/.amp/minnesota-news/photographer-reports-being-maced-and-punched-by-police-other-journalists-detained
    Because journalists are the enemy of the (police) state. Remember. 

    assume this came from the top. assume the or a deputy chief was named interim after the former chief resigned earlier this week?

    who is that person and what are they about?

    if it didnt come from the top, then this potentially shows how undisciplined this force is.
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    mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 27,933
    Just watching the local news.... Molotov cocktail thrown at an officer during a routine traffic stop.  Suspect is alive.  Much respect to the good cops out there.  Point is that like any other job you have good employees that vastly outweigh the shitty ones.  
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
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    cutzcutz Posts: 11,477
    https://6abc.com/amp/karen-garner-video-woman-with-dementia-arrest-body-cam-73-year-old-loveland-police-department/10523073/?ex_cid=TA_WPVI_TW&taid=607b91055a08ec000131fddd&utm_campaign=trueAnthem: Trending Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter&__twitter_impression=true&s=03

    BODYCAM VIDEO SHOWS COP PUSH 73-YEAR-OLD WOMAN WITH DEMENTIA TO GROUND DURING ARREST

    By Colleen Slevin, Associated Press
    Saturday, April 17, 2021 3:39PM 


    LOVELAND, Colo. -- A police officer who arrested a 73-year-old woman with dementia, pushing her to the ground and handcuffing her, after she walked away from a store without paying for about $14 worth of items last year was placed on administrative leave Thursday pending the outcome of a police investigation into the arrest.

    The moves came a day after Karen Garner filed a federal lawsuit against the city of Loveland and police officers over her June 2020 arrest. Two other officers targeted in the lawsuit - a backup officer and a supervisory sergeant - have been reassigned to administrative duties, the Loveland Police Department said.

    "LPD takes very seriously the allegations concerning the arrest of resident Karen Garner, and shares with the community the concerns about video images that became public on Wednesday," the department said in a statement.

    Police body camera video included as part of Garner's lawsuit shows an officer approaching her as she walked through a field along a road last summer where she had been picking wildflowers.

    She shrugs with her arms outstretched when he questions why she did not stop despite him following her in a patrol car with his lights on, the video shows.

    When she then turns her back to him and starts walking away, the video shows the officer quickly grab one of her arms, puts it behind her back and pushes her 80-pound (36-kilogram) body to the ground and puts her in handcuffs as she looks confused and repeatedly says "I am going home."

    She initially holds on to the flowers in her restrained hands behind her back, the video shows.

    When the video shows her questioning what is happening, the officer says "I told you to stop. You don't get to act this way."

    The footage later shows Garner being held against the hood of the patrol car with her left arm bent up next to her head.

    The officer implies in the video that she is trying to kick him but her legs are not visible. Soon she starts to slide down toward the ground and the video shows another officer who had recently arrived yelling: "Stand up! We're not going to hold you!"

    The release of the footage and lawsuit come at a time of a national reckoning over police tactics during arrests, particularly against Black people. Garner and everyone involved in her arrest are white. But her lawyer, Sarah Schielke, said vulnerable people including the disabled can be taken advantage of by police abusing their power.

    The police department said it had not received a complaint about Garner's arrest before the lawsuit was filed. However, the body camera footage shows a man who stopped to film the arrest talking to the arresting officer and later to the sergeant to express concern about what he saw. The sergeant, talking to the man in the background, tells him: "Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen."

    Schielke said the man was "gaslit" and questioned why anyone in Garner's family would want to file a complaint given that reaction. To her, the sergeant's response shows that the culture of the department, along with a lack of training, are the root problems that led to the arrest.

    "It's definitely not just a bad apple," she said.

    According to the lawsuit, Walmart employees asked Garner to return to the store when they saw her leave without paying and took the items back - a soda, a candy bar, a T-shirt, and wipe refills - denying her request to pay for the items.

    Someone from Walmart then called police to report Garner and the direction she walking but said the store had not suffered a loss, the lawsuit said. The charges against Garner were dismissed after prosecutors wrote in a motion that she "appears to be incapable of understanding her surroundings or her actions."

    The lawsuit, which seeks unspecified damages, claims that Garner suffered a dislocated shoulder but that no one sought medical help until about six hours after she was arrested, when a deputy in the jail noticed she needed help.

    The lawsuit claims the arrest violated her constitutional protections against excessive force and to have due process and also violated the Americans with Disabilities Act.

    According to the lawsuit, forgetting to pay for items in stores is common among those with dementia. It also said Garner suffers from sensory aphasia, which impairs her ability to communicate and understand what other people are saying.

    In addition to her physical injuries, the lawsuit claims Garner now experiences fear, trauma and anxiety whenever she leaves her home.

    "What little freedom and happiness Ms. Garner enjoyed in her life as an elderly adult with declining mental health was, on June 26, 2020, recklessly and deliberately obliterated by the Loveland Police Department," it said.



    https://youtu.be/Kzkl2u-Tc70
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    Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 6,163
    mickeyrat said:
    dignin said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    tbergs said:
    cutz said:






    image

    That USA statistic is misleading. Many states require at least a 2 year degree and several departments even require 4 years. Those states that don't require post secondary education are fucked up. For reference though, MN has some of the highest standards and look what happened here in the last 5 years.
    Statistic mentions nothing about population as well. Another useless Twitter meme  that people will believe automatically because they want to. 
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1124039/police-killings-rate-selected-countries/

     Rate of police killings per 10 million residents

    United States 33.5
    Canada** 9.8
    Australia*** 8.5
    The Netherlands 2.3
    New Zealand**** 2
    Germany**** 1.3
    England and Wales 0.5
    Japan**** 0.2
    Iceland**** 0
    Norway**** 0

    And the largest group of USA victims are white. By a lot. 

    Until liberals and conservatives are honest with each other, that the US is a top 20 crime country and with by far the most guns on the street, it is a brutally dangerous job to police the streets.

    Yet we still have other commenters calling the Daunte case “murder “ and continue to ignore the risks he decided to take over the last couple of years in his life in a very dangerous country that eventually put him into a high risk confrontation with the cops.

    Taser errors have been historically categorized as manslaughter and the conviction rate is extremely low.

    white victims make sense because white americans are the majority by a lot. so stop that shit. its disingenuous.


    No it’s not. You are

    the f*caking truth is nearly half of all deaths at the hands of the police last year were white. Double the amount of black victims. That’s the effing fact, be honest and own it. Were those cops also racist murderers? It does not matter at all the percentages were worse for blacks. Those deaths matter. They all do. 


    The problem with America is both sides, liberals and conservatives, fail to see the truth, that the US has one of the highest rates of crime in the world , which is exponentially worse due to the absurd levels of guns on the street.

    The right insists on more guns, and the left refuses again to call out a Black man who made several dangerous decisions in his young adult life that significantly  enhanced his risk of a tragic outcome.
  • Options
    mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,938
    mickeyrat said:
    dignin said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    tbergs said:
    cutz said:






    image

    That USA statistic is misleading. Many states require at least a 2 year degree and several departments even require 4 years. Those states that don't require post secondary education are fucked up. For reference though, MN has some of the highest standards and look what happened here in the last 5 years.
    Statistic mentions nothing about population as well. Another useless Twitter meme  that people will believe automatically because they want to. 
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1124039/police-killings-rate-selected-countries/

     Rate of police killings per 10 million residents

    United States 33.5
    Canada** 9.8
    Australia*** 8.5
    The Netherlands 2.3
    New Zealand**** 2
    Germany**** 1.3
    England and Wales 0.5
    Japan**** 0.2
    Iceland**** 0
    Norway**** 0

    And the largest group of USA victims are white. By a lot. 

    Until liberals and conservatives are honest with each other, that the US is a top 20 crime country and with by far the most guns on the street, it is a brutally dangerous job to police the streets.

    Yet we still have other commenters calling the Daunte case “murder “ and continue to ignore the risks he decided to take over the last couple of years in his life in a very dangerous country that eventually put him into a high risk confrontation with the cops.

    Taser errors have been historically categorized as manslaughter and the conviction rate is extremely low.

    white victims make sense because white americans are the majority by a lot. so stop that shit. its disingenuous.


    No it’s not. You are

    the f*caking truth is nearly half of all deaths at the hands of the police last year were white. Double the amount of black victims. That’s the effing fact, be honest and own it. Were those cops also racist murderers? It does not matter at all the percentages were worse for blacks. Those deaths matter. They all do. 


    The problem with America is both sides, liberals and conservatives, fail to see the truth, that the US has one of the highest rates of crime in the world , which is exponentially worse due to the absurd levels of guns on the street.

    The right insists on more guns, and the left refuses again to call out a Black man who made several dangerous decisions in his young adult life that significantly  enhanced his risk of a tragic outcome.
    from wiki, population of white americans

    White Americans are Americans who identify as and are perceived to be white people. White Americans (including White Hispanics) constitute the historical and current majority of the people living in the United States, with 72% of the population identifying as white alone totalling 236,475,401 people and 75% identify white fully or multiracial totalling 246,234,076 people. Non-Hispanic Whites totaled about 197,181,177 or about 60.1% of the population in 2019.[3] European Americans are the largest panethnic group of White Americans and have constituted the majority population of the United States since the nation's founding. 

    from wiki, black americans

    African Americans (also referred to as Black Americans or Afro-Americans)[3] are an ethnic group of Americans with total or partial ancestry from any of the black racial groups of Africa.[4][5] The term African American generally denotes descendants of enslaved black people who are from the United States,[6][7][8] while some recent black immigrants or their children may also come to identify as African-American or may identify differently.[9]

    African Americans
    Total population
    46,713,850 (2019)[1]
    14.2% of the total U.S. population (2019)[1]
    41,989,671 (2019) (one race)[1]
    12.8% of the total U.S. population (2019)[1]
    40,596,040 (2019) (non-Hispanic)[1]
    12.4% of the total U.S. population (2019)[1]


    you know, facts.....

    as a percentage of demographic population, black folks fare far worse by a mile.



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    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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