Police abuse

tbergs

Just watched the full clip and alternate angle clip. Still don't think it's clear and it actually looks like the officer waited for the previous skateboarder before walking closer to the truck that was trying to back up to close off the gap they were cutting between. He stopped when the other boarder starts barreling through and then the truck starts backing up and the next boarder scratches his run.

And just for the record @rgambs, my eyes are perfectly fine and if they ever become an appendage it's because of the lax EPA standards the Trump admin set that caused me to mutate to survive.

rgambs

cincybearcat said:

He does move a little to his left.  Honestly I'm unsure if it was to create contact or in anticipation of contact.  It really could be either, though I do believe he intended to create contact.  Not a cool thing to do, but it was a blocked off area, so skater dude was being a complete ass and probably got what he deserved.

I agree, the shift could have been a brace for impact, and the skater was being an ass.
It's just practically infuriating that people refuse to acknowledge what is clear because they aren't comfortable with what it may imply.

tbergs

rgambs said:

cincybearcat said:

He does move a little to his left.  Honestly I'm unsure if it was to create contact or in anticipation of contact.  It really could be either, though I do believe he intended to create contact.  Not a cool thing to do, but it was a blocked off area, so skater dude was being a complete ass and probably got what he deserved.

I agree, the shift could have been a brace for impact, and the skater was being an ass.
It's just practically infuriating that people refuse to acknowledge what is clear because they aren't comfortable with what it may imply.

Speak for yourself, I'm quite okay with what it could imply. I try not to jump to conclusions based on partial information and compartmentalized video of what had been going on though.

rgambs

tbergs said:

rgambs said:

cincybearcat said:

He does move a little to his left.  Honestly I'm unsure if it was to create contact or in anticipation of contact.  It really could be either, though I do believe he intended to create contact.  Not a cool thing to do, but it was a blocked off area, so skater dude was being a complete ass and probably got what he deserved.

I agree, the shift could have been a brace for impact, and the skater was being an ass.
It's just practically infuriating that people refuse to acknowledge what is clear because they aren't comfortable with what it may imply.

Speak for yourself, I'm quite okay with what it could imply. I try not to jump to conclusions based on partial information and compartmentalized video of what had been going on though.

Partial information and compartmentalized video lol

Are you serious? 
I'm not even jumping to conclusions, I am saying that the "compartmentalized video" is clear in showing that the officer shifted to his left.
That is a fact. 
If you can't accept that, what on conclusions on Earth could you possibly credit?  If clear video proof isn't sufficient to convince you of what is happening outside your own experience, what is???

Thirty Bills Unpaid

rgambs said:

cincybearcat said:

He does move a little to his left.  Honestly I'm unsure if it was to create contact or in anticipation of contact.  It really could be either, though I do believe he intended to create contact.  Not a cool thing to do, but it was a blocked off area, so skater dude was being a complete ass and probably got what he deserved.

I agree, the shift could have been a brace for impact, and the skater was being an ass.
It's just practically infuriating that people refuse to acknowledge what is clear because they aren't comfortable with what it may imply.

You contradict yourself here.

You acknowledge that the shift could have been bracing for contact- which is what people have been saying- and then you admonish people for arguing such.

rgambs

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

cincybearcat said:

He does move a little to his left.  Honestly I'm unsure if it was to create contact or in anticipation of contact.  It really could be either, though I do believe he intended to create contact.  Not a cool thing to do, but it was a blocked off area, so skater dude was being a complete ass and probably got what he deserved.

I agree, the shift could have been a brace for impact, and the skater was being an ass.
It's just practically infuriating that people refuse to acknowledge what is clear because they aren't comfortable with what it may imply.

You contradict yourself here.

You acknowledge that the shift could have been bracing for contact- which is what people have been saying- and then you admonish people for arguing such.

That admonishment is for the comments of denial that he shifted.
The shift occured.  The video is clear on that account.

unsung

And he could have just as easily shifted out of the way.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

cincybearcat said:

He does move a little to his left.  Honestly I'm unsure if it was to create contact or in anticipation of contact.  It really could be either, though I do believe he intended to create contact.  Not a cool thing to do, but it was a blocked off area, so skater dude was being a complete ass and probably got what he deserved.

I agree, the shift could have been a brace for impact, and the skater was being an ass.
It's just practically infuriating that people refuse to acknowledge what is clear because they aren't comfortable with what it may imply.

You contradict yourself here.

You acknowledge that the shift could have been bracing for contact- which is what people have been saying- and then you admonish people for arguing such.

That admonishment is for the comments of denial that he shifted.
The shift occured.  The video is clear on that account.

I have said all along that he braced for impact.

I would like to hear your opinion on the post I submitted where I questioned the confusion that people feel when a skateboarder, skating down a hill directly towards you in a tight area, has you wondering which way to avoid him given you have no clue where he intends on turning to miss you or izf he intends on missing you at all.

You are always so damn eager to convict every cop the moment any interaction occurs around here. You're typically a strong critical thinker and you're a good guy... so it never ceases to amaze me that you have it in for police in such a way. You are the one that has told me not to judge a breed (pitbulls) by the violent and sometimes gruesome attacks other dogs of the same breed commit on a daily basis. Yet here, with police, you are conflicted with your ideology. A high profile case hits the news and you are all over every cop and every police force as if they are completely toxic.

cincybearcat

unsung said:

And he could have just as easily shifted out of the way.

Yup.  And when you are there to block off an area...that;s generally what you do, just shift out of the way for any asshat trying to get through.  He could have jumped in the car and moved it back to create more space too...but then again, you know....they were blocking the road on purpose! 

Despite what his mommy has told him too many times, Skater boy isn't special and should probably follow some rules.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

unsung said:

And he could have just as easily shifted out of the way.

Leaped away for his safety!

"Pshew! Did you see that, guys? Did you see how that idiot almost ran me down, but I managed to leap out of the way? Pshew!"

Unsung... I might not even do that on the street let alone expect a cop to do it in the line of duty. If some idiot flies at me on his skateboard expecting me to avoid him... I might or I might not depending on my mood. But if I decide to (using a phrase you love dearly) stand my ground and knock the skateboarder off his board... that's on him. Skateboarders should not expect people to be scattering left and right as they wheel by them.

rgambs

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

cincybearcat said:

He does move a little to his left.  Honestly I'm unsure if it was to create contact or in anticipation of contact.  It really could be either, though I do believe he intended to create contact.  Not a cool thing to do, but it was a blocked off area, so skater dude was being a complete ass and probably got what he deserved.

I agree, the shift could have been a brace for impact, and the skater was being an ass.
It's just practically infuriating that people refuse to acknowledge what is clear because they aren't comfortable with what it may imply.

You contradict yourself here.

You acknowledge that the shift could have been bracing for contact- which is what people have been saying- and then you admonish people for arguing such.

That admonishment is for the comments of denial that he shifted.
The shift occured.  The video is clear on that account.

I have said all along that he braced for impact.

I would like to hear your opinion on the post I submitted where I questioned the confusion that people feel when a skateboarder, skating down a hill directly towards you in a tight area, has you wondering which way to avoid him given you have no clue where he intends on turning to miss you or izf he intends on missing you at all.

You are always so damn eager to convict every cop the moment any interaction occurs around here. You're typically a strong critical thinker and you're a good guy... so it never ceases to amaze me that you have it in for police in such a way. You are the one that has told me not to judge a breed (pitbulls) by the violent and sometimes gruesome attacks other dogs of the same breed commit on a daily basis. Yet here, with police, you are conflicted with your ideology. A high profile case hits the news and you are all over every cop and every police force as if they are completely toxic.

A family pet is not equivalent to a weaponized animal being used by the government to enforce the law.
Dogs are dangerous, I am not conflicted on that point.  Whether or not people should have a right to have them is a bit tricky, whether or not police should train them to attack and then use them for official business is not tricky, it's obvious.

Your hypothetical about the boarder is a reach. If someone is barrelling toward me in any fashion I am getting out of the way because it's the smart and decent thing to do.
Your statement about how you would deliberately create a collision because you aren't obligated not to is just immature to my eyes.  You will risk injuring yourself and someone else out of spite? 

Thirty Bills Unpaid

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

cincybearcat said:

He does move a little to his left.  Honestly I'm unsure if it was to create contact or in anticipation of contact.  It really could be either, though I do believe he intended to create contact.  Not a cool thing to do, but it was a blocked off area, so skater dude was being a complete ass and probably got what he deserved.

I agree, the shift could have been a brace for impact, and the skater was being an ass.
It's just practically infuriating that people refuse to acknowledge what is clear because they aren't comfortable with what it may imply.

You contradict yourself here.

You acknowledge that the shift could have been bracing for contact- which is what people have been saying- and then you admonish people for arguing such.

That admonishment is for the comments of denial that he shifted.
The shift occured.  The video is clear on that account.

I have said all along that he braced for impact.

I would like to hear your opinion on the post I submitted where I questioned the confusion that people feel when a skateboarder, skating down a hill directly towards you in a tight area, has you wondering which way to avoid him given you have no clue where he intends on turning to miss you or izf he intends on missing you at all.

You are always so damn eager to convict every cop the moment any interaction occurs around here. You're typically a strong critical thinker and you're a good guy... so it never ceases to amaze me that you have it in for police in such a way. You are the one that has told me not to judge a breed (pitbulls) by the violent and sometimes gruesome attacks other dogs of the same breed commit on a daily basis. Yet here, with police, you are conflicted with your ideology. A high profile case hits the news and you are all over every cop and every police force as if they are completely toxic.

A family pet is not equivalent to a weaponized animal being used by the government to enforce the law.
Dogs are dangerous, I am not conflicted on that point.  Whether or not people should have a right to have them is a bit tricky, whether or not police should train them to attack and then use them for official business is not tricky, it's obvious.

Your hypothetical about the boarder is a reach. If someone is barrelling toward me in any fashion I am getting out of the way because it's the smart and decent thing to do.
Your statement about how you would deliberately create a collision because you aren't obligated not to is just immature to my eyes.  You will risk injuring yourself and someone else out of spite? 

No. I'm not looking to injure the skateboarder. I'm looking to avoid injury to myself. If I choose to jump to the left and he turns to the right... I take the brunt of the impact. In such a situation, I would stop. Hopefully, the guy takes a wide berth around me as I call him a retard. If he doesn't take a wide path around me and he's on such a course where some form of a collision is imminent... I'm doing exactly what the cop did: bracing for impact and having the skater take the brunt of the impact.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

cincybearcat said:

He does move a little to his left.  Honestly I'm unsure if it was to create contact or in anticipation of contact.  It really could be either, though I do believe he intended to create contact.  Not a cool thing to do, but it was a blocked off area, so skater dude was being a complete ass and probably got what he deserved.

I agree, the shift could have been a brace for impact, and the skater was being an ass.
It's just practically infuriating that people refuse to acknowledge what is clear because they aren't comfortable with what it may imply.

You contradict yourself here.

You acknowledge that the shift could have been bracing for contact- which is what people have been saying- and then you admonish people for arguing such.

That admonishment is for the comments of denial that he shifted.
The shift occured.  The video is clear on that account.

I have said all along that he braced for impact.

I would like to hear your opinion on the post I submitted where I questioned the confusion that people feel when a skateboarder, skating down a hill directly towards you in a tight area, has you wondering which way to avoid him given you have no clue where he intends on turning to miss you or izf he intends on missing you at all.

You are always so damn eager to convict every cop the moment any interaction occurs around here. You're typically a strong critical thinker and you're a good guy... so it never ceases to amaze me that you have it in for police in such a way. You are the one that has told me not to judge a breed (pitbulls) by the violent and sometimes gruesome attacks other dogs of the same breed commit on a daily basis. Yet here, with police, you are conflicted with your ideology. A high profile case hits the news and you are all over every cop and every police force as if they are completely toxic.

A family pet is not equivalent to a weaponized animal being used by the government to enforce the law.
Dogs are dangerous, I am not conflicted on that point.  Whether or not people should have a right to have them is a bit tricky, whether or not police should train them to attack and then use them for official business is not tricky, it's obvious.

Your hypothetical about the boarder is a reach. If someone is barrelling toward me in any fashion I am getting out of the way because it's the smart and decent thing to do.
Your statement about how you would deliberately create a collision because you aren't obligated not to is just immature to my eyes.  You will risk injuring yourself and someone else out of spite? 

And you are missing the point: you have got a broad brush you like to selectively paint with.

I wasn't comparing pitbulls to police dogs. I was comparing your defence of pitbulls in light of countless, unprovoked and needless attacks versus your attack on a nation's police every time an event hits the news.

I mean... the unruly cops haven't shot anyone in brutal fashion for a while so at the moment... all we got to demonize them for is a cop placing his shoulder into some shit skateboarder that clearly went looking for trouble and found it.

rgambs

That's practically the definition of comparing apples to oranges.  The only thing those two issues have in common is the involvement of canines.
The cops are still shooting people in brutal fashion, there just haven't been any that have broken out in the media.

I don't care about the damn skateboarder, and I don't give much of a shit about the officer either.  An off-record reprimand would be the most he deserves for this instance.
What I care about is the way this issue is approached, which is not from an honest standpoint.  The video shows a shift to the left, that some people are unwilling to accept that boggles my mind, it feels like I'm on crazy pills.  
I don't have the technical skills to graph the pixels and show conclusive physical proof that he shifted left, I can only see what is plain and question why some refuse to.
I doubt even that physical proof would be enough, there would always be a cry of "you can't see the whole story".

Thirty Bills Unpaid

rgambs said:

That's practically the definition of comparing apples to oranges.  The only thing those two issues have in common is the involvement of canines.
The cops are still shooting people in brutal fashion, there just haven't been any that have broken out in the media.

I don't care about the damn skateboarder, and I don't give much of a shit about the officer either.  An off-record reprimand would be the most he deserves for this instance.
What I care about is the way this issue is approached, which is not from an honest standpoint.  The video shows a shift to the left, that some people are unwilling to accept that boggles my mind, it feels like I'm on crazy pills.  
I don't have the technical skills to graph the pixels and show conclusive physical proof that he shifted left, I can only see what is plain and question why some refuse to.
I doubt even that physical proof would be enough, there would always be a cry of "you can't see the whole story".

You appeal to people such as me to not condemn an entire species based on the actions of a few dogs. You suggest that pitbulls are loving dogs and the overwhelming majority of pitbulls are fantastic.

You condemn an entire profession based on the actions of a few. You suggest there is systematic corruption and that every cop is an eager and willing particpant within it.

I can't frame it any better than that. I'm speaking to the fact that you are willing to exercise broad based generalizations when it suits your belief system... yet attack broad based generalizations for their inaccuracies when it doesn't.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

RG...

Don't get me wrong. I think you are one of the better people around here and my intent is not to attack you. I just wish to point out that I think you need to take your foot off the gas pedal somewhat with regards to your hatred for the police.

Much of what you write about corrupt pratices is fair and noteworthy, but when you try to push your case further by using examples that are questionable at best... it cheapens your other efforts.

Anyways... I've sandbagged enough. I need to stain a fence today and some stairs and trim and mow and finish some baseboards and avoid fires- our province is in serious trouble. Givwn the fact that I was not going to access the site for a while... I did not want our exchanges left unqualified by myself.

mace1229

rgambs said:

The video is clear, it zooms and slows, how can you not see the bodily shift toward the skater??  It's plain as day!  Maybe some folks need to see their eye doctors?

This case doesn't matter, it is just a skater punk getting a slight shoulder check, but the willingness to disbelieve clear evidence is troubling.  It's emblematic of the problem as a whole, evidence (often just the word of an officer) against supposed criminals is taken as gospel, evidence against officers is explained as unclear and incomplete.

I disagree. Far from clear. What is clear the cop comes to a full stop well before being hit. The skater had 15 feet to avoid him and chose not to. I would accept the cop shift d his weight. Maybe he did, but that is a far cry from knocking him over. What is clear is you have a stationary cop being hit by a skater. Shifting his weight doesn't make the cop out to assaulting the skater.
Only on AMT can a standing pedestrian and a stationary object be at fault for being hit by a skater.
i would probably do the same. A biker, skater, anyone who is plowing through pedestrians I just stop so they can easily go around me. If at a point I feel he is aiming for me and going to collide I would brace myself. What is wrong with that? Seems exactly what happened. The cop didn't jump in his way, or even stick out his arm. You're literally taking about a shift in body weight as being an attack on thrnskater, when the skater clearly deliberately chose to skate directly into the cop, most likely hoping to knock him down and take him out....but it's the cops fault for being in the way of a skater behind a police line? 

rgambs

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

RG...

Don't get me wrong. I think you are one of the better people around here and my intent is not to attack you. I just wish to point out that I think you need to take your foot off the gas pedal somewhat with regards to your hatred for the police.

Much of what you write about corrupt pratices is fair and noteworthy, but when you try to push your case further by using examples that are questionable at best... it cheapens your other efforts.

Anyways... I've sandbagged enough. I need to stain a fence today and some stairs and trim and mow and finish some baseboards and avoid fires- our province is in serious trouble. Givwn the fact that I was not going to access the site for a while... I did not want our exchanges left unqualified by myself.

I don't have any hatred for police.  If I have hatred, it's for a mindset that damages all policing by failing to set reasonable expectations on their authority and ability. 
I want to live in a society where police are respected and valued because they are smart as fuck, likeable, and totally badass.  I want their techniques to be refined, their tactics to be humane, and their judgement to be beyond reproach.  I want them to earn 6 figures and deserve every cent of it.  I want the best and the brightest to go through the most rigorous training and continuing education system possible.

The worst thing we can do to bring that about is by giving them the freedom to hang themselves by exonerating them of every poor use of judgement.

Enjoy your yard work, get zen with it!  I have to weed 400 ft of vegetable rows and I sure don't feel like it.


Maybe when you come back we can look at San Francisco's new policing initiatives.

unsung

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

unsung said:

And he could have just as easily shifted out of the way.

Leaped away for his safety!

"Pshew! Did you see that, guys? Did you see how that idiot almost ran me down, but I managed to leap out of the way? Pshew!"

Unsung... I might not even do that on the street let alone expect a cop to do it in the line of duty. If some idiot flies at me on his skateboard expecting me to avoid him... I might or I might not depending on my mood. But if I decide to (using a phrase you love dearly) stand my ground and knock the skateboarder off his board... that's on him. Skateboarders should not expect people to be scattering left and right as they wheel by them.

Cincy and Thirty,

So a person should have some personal responsibility?  Someone that age should know right from wrong?

cincybearcat

unsung said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

unsung said:

And he could have just as easily shifted out of the way.

Leaped away for his safety!

"Pshew! Did you see that, guys? Did you see how that idiot almost ran me down, but I managed to leap out of the way? Pshew!"

Unsung... I might not even do that on the street let alone expect a cop to do it in the line of duty. If some idiot flies at me on his skateboard expecting me to avoid him... I might or I might not depending on my mood. But if I decide to (using a phrase you love dearly) stand my ground and knock the skateboarder off his board... that's on him. Skateboarders should not expect people to be scattering left and right as they wheel by them.

Cincy and Thirty,

So a person should have some personal responsibility?  Someone that age should know right from wrong?

Ummmm  so a person riding a skateboard down a street has some personal responsibility?  Yup.