Police abuse

Thirty Bills Unpaid

oftenreading said:

The essence of the argument that the cop was in the right because he didn't have to move even though he could have is the same as "......but he started it!"  Police should be better than that. Many are. Those that let their egos get in the way cause problems that didn't need to happen. 

The situation isn't as simple as 'guy on sidewalk moves out of way to avoid collision'.

The cops were actively policing and that idiot brazenly challenged the cop and tried to make the situation more challenging as well.

If the skateboarder was passing by at a distance of even three feet and the cop lunged at him... the argument you seem to favour might have legs; but the skateboarder's plan was to brush by the cop- obviously, with the intent to send some form of message.

The cop didn't play his stupid game. He didn't need to.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

If I'm the dad of the fool that challenged the cops, I would have wanted the cop to jump out of the way.

Given that he didn't, I wouldn't be super thrilled, but the brunt of my disappointment would be directed at my kid. "Why did you think it was appropriate to do what you did? How did you think doing what you did was going to make the situation better? In such a situation, why did you think provoking the police was wise?"

HesCalledDyer

What were the skater's and officer's positions when the skater began his descent?  It's kind of shitty to assume the kid was "challenging" the cop when we don't know how long it took him to get down the hill or the cop's position relative to the starting point of his descent.

oftenreading

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

If I'm the dad of the fool that challenged the cops, I would have wanted the cop to jump out of the way.

Given that he didn't, I wouldn't be super thrilled, but the brunt of my disappointment would be directed at my kid. "Why did you think it was appropriate to do what you did? How did you think doing what you did was going to make the situation better? In such a situation, why did you think provoking the police was wise?"

It's not a zero sum game. The skater shouldn't have been that close, but that doesn't negate the fact that the officer shouldn't have escalated it, even mildly. 

Thirty Bills Unpaid

HesCalledDyer said:

What were the skater's and officer's positions when the skater began his descent?  It's kind of shitty to assume the kid was "challenging" the cop when we don't know how long it took him to get down the hill or the cop's position relative to the starting point of his descent.

Tough to tell from what I've seen.

But what's easier to see is that the skater was wheeling through the center of the police activity where no other skaters felt it was appropriate to skate.

HesCalledDyer

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HesCalledDyer said:

What were the skater's and officer's positions when the skater began his descent?  It's kind of shitty to assume the kid was "challenging" the cop when we don't know how long it took him to get down the hill or the cop's position relative to the starting point of his descent.

Tough to tell from what I've seen.

But what's easier to see is that the skater was wheeling through the center of the police activity where no other skaters felt it was appropriate to skate.

Except for the one right behind him who put the brakes on rather quickly when he friend was sent tumbling through the air. And the three or four watching from the bottom of the hill. And the one walking back up the hill from a previous run.

rgambs

tbergs said:

unsung said:

Here is a cop throwing a shoulder into a 17 year old and the crooked media applying their title.

https://instagram.com/p/BWdUh13Fpr0/embed/

Hard to tell if it was intentional or not, but here's the whole story from the "crooked media".

https://www.google.com/amp/www.sfgate.com/bayarea/amp/Videos-emerge-of-SF-police-officer-bumping-11283292.php

Oh, bullshit.  The video clearly shows the officer shifting to his left and extending his elbow.
Whatever else there is to this story is whatever it is, but don't let your bias make your eyes into worthless appendages.

rgambs

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

OnWis97 said:

It's not the best video to make a definitive call off of, but I tend to think the cop had the choice to step out of the way and instead gave him a little shoulder or forearm.  And whatever the extent that it was wrong for the skateboarder to be doing that at that time, I can't defend the cop's decision.  Sometimes it seems like they are looking for an excuse... 

This is fair.

The cop could have gotten out of the way. I agree with this. He chose not to and I don't necessarily disagree with his choice. The reason I don't necessarily disagree with his choice is that ultimately, the skater was responsible for moving off the collision course. Clearly, the skateboarder was looking for some type of interaction with the police unless he's just a plain idiot. His plan was to brush by the officer and really demonstrate something. The cop never played his game and it seems people do not like the fact that he never played along.

So, like usual, instead of expecting an officer to do what's decent and causes the least amount of disturbance, you expect him to meet shitty behaviour with shitty behaviour by puffing his chest and putting on a display of authority.

JC29856

HFS! I admire thirtys dedication and persistence. 
thirsty bills paid esquire

tbergs

rgambs said:

tbergs said:

unsung said:

Here is a cop throwing a shoulder into a 17 year old and the crooked media applying their title.

https://instagram.com/p/BWdUh13Fpr0/embed/

Hard to tell if it was intentional or not, but here's the whole story from the "crooked media".

https://www.google.com/amp/www.sfgate.com/bayarea/amp/Videos-emerge-of-SF-police-officer-bumping-11283292.php

Oh, bullshit.  The video clearly shows the officer shifting to his left and extending his elbow.
Whatever else there is to this story is whatever it is, but don't let your bias make your eyes into worthless appendages.

Whoa there. No reason to be an asshole. Your self righteous attitude can be checked at the door. I don't think I need you to tell me what I should or shouldn't see. I watched the video a few times and don't think it's clear. Take your own advice and consider your bias anytime police behavior is the subject. Being open minded isn't a bias.

mace1229

Nothing looks clear in that video to me. All I see is the cop come to a full stop and the skater ride right into him. I can't see him reaching out or bodybchexking him or anything. It could be as simple as the cop couldn't see if the skater was going left or right so he chose to stand still and that seems perfectly reasonable to me.
that alone makes it justifiable to me. Now what we don't know is why was he skating through the police and right at one cop to begin with. Best case scenario is the kid is a complete idiot and moron without any police respect. That's best case scenario for him.

mace1229

I can't determine any of that from this video. Zoomed in as far as I can, and I don't see that. The skater blocks the view of the cops left arm nearly the moment he comes into view. All I see is the cop slowly walking, then coming to a full stop, then the skater hitting him.
seems perfectly reasonable from the information we have, which is very little. It could be as simple as he saw the skater coming, didn't know if he was going left or right so he came to a stop, and got plowed into. And that to me is what it actually looks like. No body check or extension of the arm is visible. And if it is, it must be before the skater blocks the view which is 15-20 feet away. He's either a worse skater than me and I haven't ridden a skate board since 7th grade, or he intentionally hit a stationary object.
which leads to why was he skating there? The best case scenario for him is he's a huge moron and idiot who has no respect for police skating through a oppoice line like that. And that's the best we could hope for for this kid. Every other explanation is worse.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

OnWis97 said:

It's not the best video to make a definitive call off of, but I tend to think the cop had the choice to step out of the way and instead gave him a little shoulder or forearm.  And whatever the extent that it was wrong for the skateboarder to be doing that at that time, I can't defend the cop's decision.  Sometimes it seems like they are looking for an excuse... 

This is fair.

The cop could have gotten out of the way. I agree with this. He chose not to and I don't necessarily disagree with his choice. The reason I don't necessarily disagree with his choice is that ultimately, the skater was responsible for moving off the collision course. Clearly, the skateboarder was looking for some type of interaction with the police unless he's just a plain idiot. His plan was to brush by the officer and really demonstrate something. The cop never played his game and it seems people do not like the fact that he never played along.

So, like usual, instead of expecting an officer to do what's decent and causes the least amount of disturbance, you expect him to meet shitty behaviour with shitty behaviour by puffing his chest and putting on a display of authority.

So, like usual, RG wishes cops acted more like Tibetan monks.

As I said earlier, if I was the father of that idiot... I'd have wanted the cop to move aside so my son wouldn't be hurt in the fall... but I'd have serious questions about the stupidity of my son in such a situation. The goofball was clearly disrespecting the police who were doing their job and no matter what some have said here... I feel he never simply 'passed through' the zone controlled by the police (which still would have been a challenge)... he picked a line that was right at the officer forcing him to make a choice. He chose not to get out of the way and held his ground.

He maybe wasn't 'nice', but he was far from abusive.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

mace1229 said:

I can't determine any of that from this video. Zoomed in as far as I can, and I don't see that. The skater blocks the view of the cops left arm nearly the moment he comes into view. All I see is the cop slowly walking, then coming to a full stop, then the skater hitting him.
seems perfectly reasonable from the information we have, which is very little. It could be as simple as he saw the skater coming, didn't know if he was going left or right so he came to a stop, and got plowed into. And that to me is what it actually looks like. No body check or extension of the arm is visible. And if it is, it must be before the skater blocks the view which is 15-20 feet away. He's either a worse skater than me and I haven't ridden a skate board since 7th grade, or he intentionally hit a stationary object.
which leads to why was he skating there? The best case scenario for him is he's a huge moron and idiot who has no respect for police skating through a oppoice line like that. And that's the best we could hope for for this kid. Every other explanation is worse.

When some idiot is coming at you quickly on a skateboard as you are walking... what do you do?

Do you move to the left? Do you stop? Do you run real fast to get completely out of his way?

Who knows what the idiot is going to do? Is he going to turn left and miss you? Is he going to turn right and go by you? Exactly what is that idiot going to do? The problem was the skateboarder. He was ignorant and disrespectful. You don't even do that to people on a sidewalk- leaving them to guess what the hell to do to avoid a collision let alone at cops in a policing situation.

Thinking more about it... the only sure thing is to stop and if the guy heads right toward you... you brace yourself and make sure you're not the one getting hurt.

brianlux

This thread is starting to remind me of AMT.

Oh wait, this is AMT.

dignin

Dumb kid, dumb cop. I've learned to expect both, but am only disappointed by one.

rgambs

The video is clear, it zooms and slows, how can you not see the bodily shift toward the skater??  It's plain as day!  Maybe some folks need to see their eye doctors?

This case doesn't matter, it is just a skater punk getting a slight shoulder check, but the willingness to disbelieve clear evidence is troubling.  It's emblematic of the problem as a whole, evidence (often just the word of an officer) against supposed criminals is taken as gospel, evidence against officers is explained as unclear and incomplete.

rgambs

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

OnWis97 said:

It's not the best video to make a definitive call off of, but I tend to think the cop had the choice to step out of the way and instead gave him a little shoulder or forearm.  And whatever the extent that it was wrong for the skateboarder to be doing that at that time, I can't defend the cop's decision.  Sometimes it seems like they are looking for an excuse... 

This is fair.

The cop could have gotten out of the way. I agree with this. He chose not to and I don't necessarily disagree with his choice. The reason I don't necessarily disagree with his choice is that ultimately, the skater was responsible for moving off the collision course. Clearly, the skateboarder was looking for some type of interaction with the police unless he's just a plain idiot. His plan was to brush by the officer and really demonstrate something. The cop never played his game and it seems people do not like the fact that he never played along.

So, like usual, instead of expecting an officer to do what's decent and causes the least amount of disturbance, you expect him to meet shitty behaviour with shitty behaviour by puffing his chest and putting on a display of authority.

So, like usual, RG wishes cops acted more like Tibetan monks.

As I said earlier, if I was the father of that idiot... I'd have wanted the cop to move aside so my son wouldn't be hurt in the fall... but I'd have serious questions about the stupidity of my son in such a situation. The goofball was clearly disrespecting the police who were doing their job and no matter what some have said here... I feel he never simply 'passed through' the zone controlled by the police (which still would have been a challenge)... he picked a line that was right at the officer forcing him to make a choice. He chose not to get out of the way and held his ground.

He maybe wasn't 'nice', but he was far from abusive.

Judge Dredds or Tibetan Monks.

Yep, I'll take the monks every time.
Human decency is pretty undervalued apparently.

rgambs

I just watched it again.
Seriously folks, make an appointment with your optometrist. 

cincybearcat

He does move a little to his left.  Honestly I'm unsure if it was to create contact or in anticipation of contact.  It really could be either, though I do believe he intended to create contact.  Not a cool thing to do, but it was a blocked off area, so skater dude was being a complete ass and probably got what he deserved.