Gaza ***GRAPHIC PICS***

Byrnzie

PhillyCrownOfThorns said:

Missing the point. "Handing out sweets"? They were doing the same thing as the people of Sderot. Citizens celebrating the war. It's all gross.

They're not celebrating the war, because there is no war. War is when two armies are fighting. What's happening in Gaza isn't a war, it's a massacre.

What those Palestinians were celebrating was the capture of an Israeli soldier.

Byrnzie

rr165892 said:

I can feel for Palestinians Byrnzie without excepting the terrorist government they blindly follow

Yet you excuse the terrorist government that the Israeli's follow. A terrorist government with far more blood on it's hands. Why is that?

Why don't you just be honest and admit that you don't give a fuck about the Palestinians under occupation? The government they elected and that they choose to follow has nothing to do with why the Israeli's have been occupying their land for the past 47 years, and it has noting to do with why the Israeli's continue building illegal Jewish-only settlements. Hamas only came into existence in 1987, so what was your excuse for the 20 years before that?

And just for the record, can you tell me what the word 'terrorism' means? Does it mean the deliberate targeting of civilians? The Israeli's have murdered 500 X the number of children that have been killed by Palestinians since the year 2000. That's 500 X more. So how does that fit into your scheme of things?

This graph is now very much outdated, but it gives you a rough idea - not that you give a shit.


Israelis and Palestinians Killed - September 29, 2000 - Present

Byrnzie

Here are the monthly, conflict-related deaths of Israelis and Palestinians since September 2000:



Since 2005, 23 out of every 24 deaths have been palestinian.

How's that for terrorism?

i_lov_it

rr165892 said:

Byrnzie said:

You're not debating, you're just talking shite.

I guess your right If talking shit is asking for peace,and asking both sides to look in the mirror and come clean with their respective shortcomings.

Well that's right...Both sides in all Conflicts that is always think they're Right...if they can just stop thinking that they know what's best for one another then there would be Peace.

PhillyCrownOfThorns

Byrnzie said:

PhillyCrownOfThorns said:

Missing the point. "Handing out sweets"? They were doing the same thing as the people of Sderot. Citizens celebrating the war. It's all gross.

They're not clelbrating the war, because there is no war. War is when two armies are fighting. What's happening in Gaza isn't a war, it's a massacre.

What those Palestinians were celebrating was the capture of an Israeli soldier.

Sounds fun!

With all of the tunnels that were built, maybe a bomb shelter or 2 could have helped save some lives. Just a thought...

But the tunnels are just some made up figment of the American media... Carey on

benjs

i_lov_it said:

rr165892 said:

Byrnzie said:

You're not debating, you're just talking shite.

I guess your right If talking shit is asking for peace,and asking both sides to look in the mirror and come clean with their respective shortcomings.

Well that's right...Both sides in all Conflicts that is always think they're Right...if they can just stop thinking that they know what's best for one another then there would be Peace.

There are three sides to every conflict - one side, the other, and the truth. It's hard to concede when stakes are this high.

Byrnzie

PhillyCrownOfThorns said:

With all of the tunnels that were built, maybe a bomb shelter or 2 could have helped save some lives. Just a thought...

But the tunnels are just some made up figment of the American media... Carey on

The tunnels are the Palestinians only lifeline to the outside world. Considering the Israeli's have been illegally blockading the area for the past seven years the Palestinians need to do what they can to survive.
Not that you give a fuck.

Byrnzie

http://www.globalresearch.ca/egypt-gaza-tunnels-the-lifeline-under-threat/5357937
'The tunnels used to meet about 60 per cent of Gaza’s needs. According to a study examined by Britain’s Guardian newspaper, 65 per cent of the Strip’s flour, 98 per cent of its sugar and 52 per cent of its rice comes through the tunnels.'

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/feb/10/gaza-tunnels-israel
"Without these tunnels, everything would stop in Gaza," says one of the workers, who gave his name only as Abu Zeid, 22. "And they say we are terrorists. Where are the terrorists here? The world knows very well what's going on, but they don't want us to live. If they opened the crossings, why would we need to do this business?"

http://electronicintifada.net/content/tunnels-become-lifeline/8207
“If Israel opened the borders, the tunnel business would end in a second,” says Abu Hussein, a Palestinian who manages a tunnel on the Gaza side of the border. “But what are we supposed to do? These tunnels feed the people, give them what they need and give us jobs.”

Analysts estimate that at least two-thirds of the goods sold across the Gaza Strip come from the tunnels, and that they employ some 12,000 Palestinians from all over the territory. Gaza’s unemployment rate, according to the UN, stood at 45 percent before the war. It is the highest in the world.

PhillyCrownOfThorns

Byrnzie said:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/egypt-gaza-tunnels-the-lifeline-under-threat/5357937
'The tunnels used to meet about 60 per cent of Gaza’s needs. According to a study examined by Britain’s Guardian newspaper, 65 per cent of the Strip’s flour, 98 per cent of its sugar and 52 per cent of its rice comes through the tunnels.'

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/feb/10/gaza-tunnels-israel
"Without these tunnels, everything would stop in Gaza," says one of the workers, who gave his name only as Abu Zeid, 22. "And they say we are terrorists. Where are the terrorists here? The world knows very well what's going on, but they don't want us to live. If they opened the crossings, why would we need to do this business?"

http://electronicintifada.net/content/tunnels-become-lifeline/8207
“If Israel opened the borders, the tunnel business would end in a second,” says Abu Hussein, a Palestinian who manages a tunnel on the Gaza side of the border. “But what are we supposed to do? These tunnels feed the people, give them what they need and give us jobs.”

Analysts estimate that at least two-thirds of the goods sold across the Gaza Strip come from the tunnels, and that they employ some 12,000 Palestinians from all over the territory. Gaza’s unemployment rate, according to the UN, stood at 45 percent before the war. It is the highest in the world.

And 100% of its weapons!

badbrains

Supporters of Israel DONT believe in facts nor do they want them Byrnzie. Anyone with a brain that has some comprehensive skills can see what's going on and wtf the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians. Not hard to understand or see what's happening.

Byrnzie

PhillyCrownOfThorns said:

And 100% of its weapons!

Israel has weapons too. And it's used them on numerous occasions to deliberately target civilians. But you don't give a fuck about that, do you?

Byrnzie

When the Palestinians kill an Israeli it's called 'terrorism'.

When the Israeli's kill a Palestinian it's called 'self-defence'. And that includes shooting schoolchildren, demolishing homes whilst the occupants are still inside, shooting medical personnel, dropping white phosphorous on densely packed residential areas, shooting unarmed women and children waving white flags, and dropping bombs on schools, hospitals, and U.N safe houses.

But Hamas have the audacity to smuggle weapons, so therefore the Palestinians deserve everything they get.

badbrains

Byrnzie said:

PhillyCrownOfThorns said:

And 100% of its weapons!

Israel has weapons too. And it's used them on numerous occasions to deliberately target civilians. But you don't give a fuck about that, do you?

Yup and they used them against OUR OWN USS LIBERTY trying to get us involved in the Middle East all those yesterdays. Question, did we actually give them those weapons they used against the USS LIBERTY? Now that would be super fucked up. And what was our response to that attack back then, STAND DOWN was the order given to the navy and airforce. Funny, you know who actually came and "protected" the Liberty? Ready for this...........RUSSIA. Yup, Russia. Who would've thought? But back to gaza..........

Byrnzie

The Israeli's have so far managed to murder approx 129 children.

But Fox News tells us that the Palestinians are terrorists, and that Hamas smuggles weapons through tunnels. So therefore, we should just keep blinking at our t.v sets and not give a shit.

badbrains

Perfect song for some on here:

Tool-Vicarious

Eye on the TV
'cause tragedy thrills me
Whatever flavour
It happens to be like;
Killed by the husband
Drowned by the ocean
Shot by his own son
She used the poison in his tea
And kissed him goodbye
That's my kind of story
It's no fun 'til someone dies

Don't look at me like
I am a monster
Frown out your one face
But with the other
Stare like a junkie
Into the TV
Stare like a zombie
While the mother
Holds her child
Watches him die
Hands to the sky crying
Why, oh why?
'cause I need to watch things die
From a distance

Vicariously I, live while the whole world dies
You all need it too, don't lie

Why can't we just admit it?
Why can't we just admit it?

We won't give pause until the blood is flowing
Neither the brave nor bold
The writers of stories sold
We won't give pause until the blood is flowing

I need to watch things die
From a good safe distance

Vicariously I, live while the whole world dies
You all feel the same so
Why can't we just admit it?

Blood like rain come down
Drawn on grave and ground

Part vampire
Part warrior
Carnivore and voyeur
Stare at the transmittal
Sing to the death rattle

La, la, la, la, la, la, la-lie

Credulous at best, your desire to believe in angels in the hearts of men.
Pull your head on out your hippy haze and give a listen.
Shouldn't have to say it all again.
The universe is hostile. so Impersonal. devour to survive.
So it is. So it's always been.

We all feed on tragedy
It's like blood to a vampire

Vicariously I, live while the whole world dies
Much better you than I

Byrnzie

PhillyCrownOfThorns said:

And 100% of its weapons!

They have a right to resist occupation. It's a right enshrined in international law.


http://electronicintifada.net/content/palestine-legitimate-armed-resistance-vs-terrorism/5084
...[people have the] right to use force in the struggle for “liberation from colonial and foreign domination”. To quote United Nations General Assembly Resolution A/RES/33/24 of 29 November 1978:

“2. Reaffirms the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation by all available means, particularly armed struggle;” (3)

This justification for legitimate armed resistance has been specifically applied to the Palestinian struggle repeatedly. To quote General Assembly Resolution A/RES/3246 (XXIX) of 29 November 1974:

3. Reaffirms the legitimacy of the peoples’ struggle for liberation form colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation by all available means, including armed struggle; …
7. Strongly condemns all Governments which do not recognize the right to self-determination and independence of peoples under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation, notably the peoples of Africa and the Palestinian people; (4)

These two points — that people under colonial and foreign domination have the right to use armed struggle against their oppressors and that this specifically applies to the Palestinian people — has been repeatedly reaffirmed in a myriad of United Nations resolutions. These include UNGA Resolution A/RES/3246 (XXIX; 29 November 1974), UNGA Resolution A/RES/33/24 (29 November 1978), UNGA Resolution A/RES/34/44 (23 November 1979), UNGA Resolution A/RES/35/35 (14 November 1980), UNGA Resolution A/RES/36/9 (28 October 1981), and many others.

Byrnzie

Richard Falk, the UN Special Rapporteur on Palestinian human rights, a professor of international law at Princeton University, the author of dozens of books, writes in “International Law and the Al-Aqsa Intifada”:

"Though the Israeli government and the US media persist in describing the second Palestinian intifada as a security crisis or a disruption to the ‘peace process,’ in international law, Palestinian resistance to occupation is a legally protected right…Israel’s failures to abide by international law, as a belligerent occupant, amounted to a fundamental denial of the right of self-determination, and more generally of respect for the framework of belligerent occupation — giving rise to a Palestinian right of resistance."


The Palestinian’s legal right to resist occupation—to fight for their ability to promote, sustain, and nurture human life, to fight for their right to grow, to flourish—comes from two documents: the 1960 Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples and the Fourth Geneva Convention and its subsequent protocols.

"Above and beyond the basic right of all human beings to resist their being killed and harmed, and a society to take armed actions to protect itself, this document legitimizes also national liberation struggles, including, at this time in history, most particularly, the Palestinian people’s struggle for its own freedom. It is this right which legitimizes all Palestinian attempts to lift the yoke of Israeli oppression from Palestine, including all the actions taken by the Palestinians during Operation Cast Lead.

And is not the right to resist oppression universal? Does this right not justify the American Revolution and then the French Revolution and the wars of liberation in the 1950′s and 1960′s. Nelson Mandela is a hero because of his resistance to, not because of his subservience to apartheid repression. And the Warsaw Ghetto uprising by the Jewish population against the Nazi repression is a beacon of pride in modern Jewish history. it is also a fact that Jews who joined the resistance, say in Poland or other places under Nazi occupation, are heroes for the Jewish people. I would contend that one cannot deny that right of resistance to Palestinians which the Jews appropriated to themselves, and which is the right of all peoples living under military occupation and/or colonialist regimes." - Israeli human rights lawyer Lynda Brayer

PhillyCrownOfThorns

Now that's the second time you cared to f-bomb me...

War is awful. Civilian casualties (estimated at 70%) is terrible. But in a territory that is populated as densely as Gaza, it's going to happen.

Your constant mocking of legitimate reports of Hamas using homes and civilian areas for military use is just wrong.

Casualties will stop when diplomacy and a path to peace is started.

Your refusal to recognize the role of Hamas in this process disgusts me!

rr165892

Byrnzie said:

rr165892 said:

you Never,Ever,Ever condone ANY action from a pro Palestinian side against the others is dangerous.Yes you will post 10 articles to make your point,Yes you argue about decades of stolen land and occupation ,but you don't ever comment on any wrong doing or the thousand of innocent lives that have also been lost in terror attacks against western interests,innocent Israelis and others in the name of a free Palestine.

Maybe because they have fuck all to do with the root cause of the problems - the illegal occupation and land-grab.

rr165892 said:

These groups don't sell Girl Scout cookies and although they may have some benevolence to the people the say they speak for they are big time terror orginazations who are very dangerous and want also a western free,Jewish free and non Muslim free world and Middle East.(not all but many)
These groups DO NOT get a pass.No way,No how.The sooner you can admit that your people need to get out from under this refime the better.

You're simply reading from the Fox News script. Why are you trying to pretend that the only acts of terrorism have come from the Palestinians? You're just trying to turn reality on it's head.
I've already explained and documented the history of the so-called 'peace process' and how the Israeli's have proven time and time again that they have zero interest in a peaceful settlement in accordance with international law. But I can see that you don't give a fuck about that because it doesn't fit your cozy little narrative which paints the Palestinians as evil, bloodthisty bogeymen, and the Israeli's as reasonable, civilized, and virtuous.

rr165892 said:

Please don't turn this around about Israeli occupation.I know that is also at issue here but I'm addressing your side of this.

No, it's THE issue here. And trying to deflect attention from the illegal occupation and the daily oppression and terrorizing of an entire people won't work.

You sir do not read or choose once again to deal with only the partial reality you are viewing thru very jaded glasses.If you read my above post with any sort of Comprehension you would quit trying to blame me for "Hating the Palestinians,painting them as evil,etc,etc".It is clear I said nothing of the sort.Nor did I say anything even remotely degrading toward those unfortunately involved in this mess.I expressed my condolences and regret for there situation,so don't turn this around.My issue is with the Terrorist groups you support.You refuse to acknowledge ANY wrongdoings or violence on that side.Ive already stated this is directed to your side.My issues with the Israeli handling would be discussed with a radical on that side.You are not,so you get this side of it.
Quit deflecting,Quit hiding behind the headlines.Your only blaming one side.The leadership you follow also has blood on its hands.Stop making this one sided.You are being a fucking Hypocrite of the first degree.No wonder peace is so in obtainable.You folks in that region let your anger and past history get in the way of common sense forward thinking.Clouding your judgement.
You don't get a pass Byrnzie,No way.You have to acknowledge wrong both ways.

Oh btw,I don't watch fox,Im a CNN guy.Erin Burnett is the best and very cute also.But I'm not gonna just sit back and let you continue to back terrorist orginazations(You have never once spoke bad about any Muslim group no matter what there ideology )on these here boards with out you at least being accurate.You can't want and seek peace,while supporting violence and hate as ok because it fits your agenda.No,No,No you don't get to talk out both sides.And try picking thru my last post and actually answer some of what I'm asking,instead of just saying "It's the Israelis,the Americans ,fox news,blah,blah,blah.
The world is getting sick of seeing your people killed and general consensus may swing favorable toward your humanitarian needs.You don't need to continue to spew hate to get the light shined on your situation.

Byrnzie

PhillyCrownOfThorns said:

War is awful. Civilian casualties (estimated at 70%) is terrible. But in a territory that is populated as densely as Gaza, it's going to happen.

It's not a war, it's a massacre. A war is when two armies are fighting. It's not a war when one army is attacking a civilian population.

PhillyCrownOfThorns said:

Your constant mocking of legitimate reports of Hamas using homes and civilian areas for military use is just wrong.

I've only seen one report of Hamas using a school to store weapons. That does not justify Israel's wanton murder of civilians. It's committed numerous war crimes during this latest massacre, just as it did during Operation Cast Lead in 2008-2009.

PhillyCrownOfThorns said:

Casualties will stop when diplomacy and a path to peace is started.

Diplomacy and a path to peace have already been started, but a peaceful settlement has been repeatedly blocked at the U.N Security Council by the U.S, which opposes a peaceful settlement along with Israel. The Israeli's aren't interested in a peaceful settlement in accordance with international law. They're interested in maintaining the status quo, occupation and settlement expansion. But then, I've already told you this, and I've provided source material to prove it.

PhillyCrownOfThorns said:

Your refusal to recognize the role of Hamas in this process disgusts me!

And what 'process' would that be?