I need to change my forum notification preferences. I keep getting an email every time one of you clowns respond to this thread. Do you know how hard it is to get work done when every five seconds you get an email from Admin!
This isn't a guy who is going to edit what he said in hopes of not offending people. I continue to believe he said exactly what he intended to. If Israel fits that bill, that is Israel's problem. As others have said, there are instances where the US fits that bill, too. It needs to be said and no one should be offended by it.
Well said.
2000: Manchester
2006: Dublin; Leeds; Arnhem
2007: London
2009: Manchester
2012: Manchester I & II : EV Manchester : Soundgarden Shepherds Bush
2013: Brad Manchester : Soundgarden Manchester
2014: Amsterdam I & II; Berlin; Leeds; Milton Keynes 2018: Berlin; London II; Boston II
Go watch the VH1 Storytellers episode that they were featured on back in 2006. I couldn't find the particular clip (it starts around the 36 minute mark below) but Eddie was asked point-blank how he responds to fans who do not share his political views. His response?
"Fuck 'em". (Followed by some "do your own thinking type lip service.)
This isn't a guy who is going to edit what he said in hopes of not offending people. I continue to believe he said exactly what he intended to. If Israel fits that bill, that is Israel's problem. As others have said, there are instances where the US fits that bill, too. It needs to be said and no one should be offended by it.
In nearly 25 years as a band, he has never addressed this issue, and there were many people waiting on him to speak about it. As outspoken as he is, there has to be a reason for that. My guess is the reason is because It is not like other issues; it is obviously very polarizing. The fact that we're speculating on what he meant, and discussing it, was probably part of his intent. I agreed earlier that the outrage comes from defensive Israelis who realize it does fit the bill! Still....timing, context, and subtext point to Israel more than any other nation on earth at the moment; that's the source of the outrage.
the problem with this whole thing has much more to do with human nature and mechanisms of control then with just israel / palestine conflict.
The control mechanism used by those in power, those who rule over the masses, is divide and conquer.
If you can keep the population divided, then they are easily conquered, easy to steer and manipulate. They will fight amongst themselves and argue and yell and be so preoccupied battling one another, they won't be able to address the real issue as to who is dividing and conquering them. They will always assume it's just the other side that is the problem and look no further.
we live in a world of duality... day/night , male/female, inhale/exhale, you/me, up/down...even within our own bodies we have two hemispheres of our brain, some people are more right brained others more left brained... there is division even within our own biology. So much of our existence is locked into duality.
Those who rule, understand this power of duality and they understand how to use it to manipulate the masses. As I said earlier, the one thing they understand better the anything, is psychology. They give us, the masses, all kinds of polarizing subjects to fight over... religion, guns, immigration, abortion...the topics on the 24/7 "news" shows are always based on polarizing subjects and this is done on purpose... they hire polarizing personalities to host "news" shows... why do you think someone like Bill O'Reilly has the job he does, it's not because of his journalistic background or that he's a much better reporter then anyone else... it's because his opinion is polarizing. "News" channels main template is to have two windows of people just shouting and yelling over each other. We as the viewer watch this, and the natural thing to do is to choose which one of those shouting jackasses you agree more with or you think is the least offensive jackass, even if they're arguing about an issue you don't care about, you pick a side. It's human nature.
In america, if you say you don't like Obama, people instantly assume you're a conservative, because there's only two parties. So if you dislike one side, people instantly assume you support the other side, basing that assumption on nothing other then the nature of duality. There is no in between, only left or right. And those who control the world, understand how to manipulate this aspect of human nature, and they have it down to a science. It's why you'll always only have a two party system in America... you need duality to divide and conquer, to drive a wedge between the masses. You know the best way to deal with a group of people you want to go away, instigate a civil war between them... let them fight and kill each other, it's a tactic that's been used time and time again all over the world. I don't need to waste any energy or my own bullets and resources or risk my own life, i just promote division amongst the group, and if they aren't already divided along some party or religious lines, I can create something that will divide them. All i need is some sort of means to promote division... like owning the media. I just need to be able to stir the pot and rile enough people up and then they'll do the rest.
During Bush jr. he so famously said, "you're either with us, or you're with the terrorists"... so if you disagreed with that administration's policy, you were considered a terrorist....!! That's a bit extreme don't ya think? If you criticized the administration you supported terrorism and hated america. It's even worse now, if you don't agree with the administration, they're getting even more specific and calling people "domestic terrorists", people who support the constitution are labeled as "radical extremist"...!!!
It is the same with the Israel/Palestine issue. This whole thing about choosing a side, is childish. The minute you say you disagree with one side, people instantly assume you support the other and start citing examples of why the other side is to blame and say "you don't understand history because of A B and C, the other side did this first"... at this point in time, who did what to who, who started it or threw the first or last punch is irrelevant, it all has to stop... and that's ed's point. He's not choosing a side. But people who've been caught up in this conflict forever, can't see that, they are too dug in... you are either with us or you are with them... you can't be against both sides, you have to choose. This is the nature of conflict, choosing a side... peace and resolution, is about not choosing sides, about seeing the points of both sides and coming to an agreement. If you want to continue conflict, you draw a line in the sand and then you demand people choose a side.
And therein lies the problem that keeps us, the masses, enslaved to those who rule over us, calculated division devised to keep us at each other's throats. Meanwhile the rulers of the world sit back and watch and continue to control us, and instead of taking a minute to stop fighting with one another and look at who is truly responsible for our division, we just dig in deeper and deeper into duality and go after each other instead.
Until we rise above duality, and understand the psychological mechanisms of control being used on us, we will always be divided and conquered.
since when is it a crime to speak your mind? usually when someone has a guilty conscience they cry foul to change the conversation which seems to be going on with this situation. first the thought police, now the we'll interpret it how ever we want police. we are so doomed.
the problem with this whole thing has much more to do with human nature and mechanisms of control then with just israel / palestine conflict.
The control mechanism used by those in power, those who rule over the masses, is divide and conquer.
If you can keep the population divided, then they are easily conquered, easy to steer and manipulate. They will fight amongst themselves and argue and yell and be so preoccupied battling one another, they won't be able to address the real issue as to who is dividing and conquering them. They will always assume it's just the other side that is the problem and look no further.
we live in a world of duality... day/night , male/female, inhale/exhale, you/me, up/down...even within our own bodies we have two hemispheres of our brain, some people are more right brained others more left brained... there is division even within our own biology. So much of our existence is locked into duality.
Those who rule, understand this power of duality and they understand how to use it to manipulate the masses. As I said earlier, the one thing they understand better the anything, is psychology. They give us, the masses, all kinds of polarizing subjects to fight over... religion, guns, immigration, abortion...the topics on the 24/7 "news" shows are always based on polarizing subjects and this is done on purpose... they hire polarizing personalities to host "news" shows... why do you think someone like Bill O'Reilly has the job he does, it's not because of his journalistic background or that he's a much better reporter then anyone else... it's because his opinion is polarizing. "News" channels main template is to have two windows of people just shouting and yelling over each other. We as the viewer watch this, and the natural thing to do is to choose which one of those shouting jackasses you agree more with or you think is the least offensive jackass, even if they're arguing about an issue you don't care about, you pick a side. It's human nature.
In america, if you say you don't like Obama, people instantly assume you're a conservative, because there's only two parties. So if you dislike one side, people instantly assume you support the other side, basing that assumption on nothing other then the nature of duality. There is no in between, only left or right. And those who control the world, understand how to manipulate this aspect of human nature, and they have it down to a science. It's why you'll always only have a two party system in America... you need duality to divide and conquer, to drive a wedge between the masses. You know the best way to deal with a group of people you want to go away, instigate a civil war between them... let them fight and kill each other, it's a tactic that's been used time and time again all over the world. I don't need to waste any energy or my own bullets and resources or risk my own life, i just promote division amongst the group, and if they aren't already divided along some party or religious lines, I can create something that will divide them. All i need is some sort of means to promote division... like owning the media. I just need to be able to stir the pot and rile enough people up and then they'll do the rest.
During Bush jr. he so famously said, "you're either with us, or you're with the terrorists"... so if you disagreed with that administration's policy, you were considered a terrorist....!! That's a bit extreme don't ya think? If you criticized the administration you supported terrorism and hated america. It's even worse now, if you don't agree with the administration, they're getting even more specific and calling people "domestic terrorists", people who support the constitution are labeled as "radical extremist"...!!!
It is the same with the Israel/Palestine issue. This whole thing about choosing a side, is childish. The minute you say you disagree with one side, people instantly assume you support the other and start citing examples of why the other side is to blame and say "you don't understand history because of A B and C, the other side did this first"... at this point in time, who did what to who, who started it or threw the first or last punch is irrelevant, it all has to stop... and that's ed's point. He's not choosing a side. But people who've been caught up in this conflict forever, can't see that, they are too dug in... you are either with us or you are with them... you can't be against both sides, you have to choose. This is the nature of conflict, choosing a side... peace and resolution, is about not choosing sides, about seeing the points of both sides and coming to an agreement. If you want to continue conflict, then you demand people choose a side.
And therein lies the problem that we keeps us, the masses, enslaved to those who rule over us, calculated division devised to keep us at each other's throats. Meanwhile the rulers of the world sit back and watch and continue to control us, and instead of taking a minute to stop fighting with one another and look at who is truly responsible for our division, we just dig in deeper and deeper into duality and go after each other instead.
Until we rise above duality, and understand the psychological mechanisms of control being used on us, we will always be divided and conquered.
^:)^ dude, we're not worthy
There have been some extremely articulate responses on this forum.
I feel like a 2nd grader that accidently wandered into a college lecture..... )
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2003- Raleigh, NC: Charlotte, NC: Atlanta, GA
2004- Asheville, NC (hometown show)
2006- Cincinnati, OH
2008- Columbia, SC
2009- Chicago, IL x 2 / Ed Vedder- Atlanta, GA x 2
2010- Bristow, VA
2011- Alpine Valley, WI (PJ20) x 2 / Ed Vedder- Chicago, IL
2012- Atlanta, GA
2013- Charlotte, NC
2014- Cincinnati, OH
2015- New York, NY
2016- Greenville, SC: Hampton, VA:: Columbia, SC: Raleigh, NC : Lexington, KY: Philly, PA 2: (Wrigley) Chicago, IL x 2 (holy shit): Temple of the Dog- Philly, PA
These rants kill shows. He divides audiences with different backgrounds and makes it about his opinion. He has certainly earned the right to do so. It comes at the expense of the show
Post edited by stickfig13 on
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does anyone else think it's strange that the first thing that popped up when I went on the JP site was an advertisement/sponsorship from a weapons manufacturer? That should discredit it right out of the box as a legitimate newspaper.
2000- Atlanta, GA: New Orleans, LA: Memphis, TN: Nashville, TN
2003- Raleigh, NC: Charlotte, NC: Atlanta, GA
2004- Asheville, NC (hometown show)
2006- Cincinnati, OH
2008- Columbia, SC
2009- Chicago, IL x 2 / Ed Vedder- Atlanta, GA x 2
2010- Bristow, VA
2011- Alpine Valley, WI (PJ20) x 2 / Ed Vedder- Chicago, IL
2012- Atlanta, GA
2013- Charlotte, NC
2014- Cincinnati, OH
2015- New York, NY
2016- Greenville, SC: Hampton, VA:: Columbia, SC: Raleigh, NC : Lexington, KY: Philly, PA 2: (Wrigley) Chicago, IL x 2 (holy shit): Temple of the Dog- Philly, PA
And therein lies the problem that we keeps us, the masses, enslaved to those who rule over us, calculated division devised to keep us at each other's throats. Meanwhile the rulers of the world sit back and watch and continue to control us, and instead of taking a minute to stop fighting with one another and look at who is truly responsible for our division, we just dig in deeper and deeper into duality and go after each other instead.
Until we rise above duality, and understand the psychological mechanisms of control being used on us, we will always be divided and conquered.
In most cases (if not all) the divisive elements are rooted in or manipulated out of religious beliefs. It's sickening and sad to watch peoples faith, being used in such way as to incite hate towards their fellow people.
does anyone else think it's strange that the first thing that popped up when I went on the JP site was an advertisement/sponsorship from a weapons manufacturer? That should discredit it right out of the box as a legitimate newspaper.
I most certainly do not. Most modern websites use tracking cookies which deliver you relevant targeted marketing and advertisements: more money for the website, as well as product/service providers. If the article was about fairies, the ad would probably be selling you Disney merchandise.
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EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
These rants kill shows. He divides audiences with different backgrounds and makes it about his opinion. He has certainly earned the right to do so. It comes at the expense of the show
I'd be willing to bet that the only division he meant to create was that between those in favour of peace, and those against it.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
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There's a lot to be said for nowhere. Posts: 4,772
edited July 2014
Closed for review. Reopened. Rude post removed along with all quoting of it. It's an important discussion so be careful to follow the Posting Guidelines while talking. It's possible to talk about it without being abusive or insulting to each other or your hosts. Thank you.
I think that writer took a pretty huge, and irresponsible leap suggesting that Ed was referring to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. The writer even says "Although he never explicitly mentions Israel by name...". Its no secret Ed, and many Americans, have been critical of our countries actions in the Middle East, and there's no reason to believe Ed's not talking about that. He has countless times before so I'm not sure why the writer assumes hes talking about Israel this time.
As any Israel supporter knows, The IDF - Israel Defense Forces notify by media and dropping pamphlets informing civilians in enemy territory and located at enemy targets of upcoming military action to give them time to evacuate. I am not aware of other nations that offer such warnings.
Do they notify the media and drop pamphlets before they send in the bulldozers? Missiles may not be cheaper, but certainly more effective at displacing people....
Step 1: Force people to live under apartheid conditions so miserable, they revolts time to time. Step 2: Use those actions by a few to justify collective punishment. Step 3: Kill a few thousand civilians, women and children and level their houses Step 4: Grab those now level grounds and build more houses for your own people. Step 5: Profit, rinse and repeat.
All nations have the right to defend themselves. Israel stops fighting they die. Hamas stops fighting, there is quiet. But guess what? I have no interest debating politics on this site with you or anyone else. My point is that Eddie does not support Israel or its right to survival. He said that he does not want his tax dollars invested in bombs to hit children. That comment is used to get his fans also to not support Israel because of who he is. It also is negative toward Israel in that he states they kill children. We all know Hamas uses the civilian population as human shields for its dirty work I am not coming up with anything new or not widely known by all nations. It's not disappointing to me that Eddie Vedder or anyone else does not support Israel but what does bother me is what he says. At this point in his career, it seems odd that he would deliberately go into an anti-Israel rant hiding behind the fact that he does not mention the country. Let's be real here - the US does not provide financial support to Russia or any of the other countries that could possibly fit the inane description used by Vedder. The fact that he would be trying to build a coalition of fans to oppose or "boycott" Israel along with his buddy Roger Waters is very disturbing. Also, the timing of this is particularly interesting - this weekend when just last Friday Waters posted his letter to Neil Young for the world to see, in a last ditch attempt to influence Young (and Young's supporters) to cancel his Israel shows since Young flat out ignored Waters' original letter delivered through his manager.
Klausen,That was a walk off pal.When you got done typing I hope you dropped the mic to the floor and walked out of the room without looking back.Very well done.
Eddie Vedder (or whoever gets this) With all due respect I would like to address the members of PJ and Ed Vedder.
Ed's speech the other night was very confusing and obviously requires clarification. It seems you are indicating that Israel is purposely firing rockets at children. Isn’t Israel warning their attackers that in self defense they will be firing in specific areas that need to be evacuated? Obama himself has said about Israel: "There’s just not another country in the world that would allow missiles to be rained down on them without fighting back"
When did Israel purposely fire a rocket at children?? Not in self defense??
How can you condemn a country for acting in self defense? It is so unlike you Ed and unlike Pearl Jam.
Bill Maher said it best - "What I find so ironic is that after World War II, everybody said, ‘I don’t understand the Jews. How could they have just gone to their slaughter like that?’, and then when they fight back: ‘I don’t understand the Jews. Why can’t they just go to their slaughter?’ Its like, ‘You know what? We did that once. It’s not gonna happen again. You’re just gonna have to get used to the fact that Jews now defend themselves -- and by the way, defend themselves better."
If not clarified, Ed's speech can somehow seem pro HAMAS (a terrorist organization) Is Ed Pro Hamas??? I agree PRO PEACE is right, but SEEMINGLY taking sides with a terrorist group like Hamas (and publicly no-less) is WRONG. And Ed's not clearly indicating that he is not taking sides was also wrong. He is not clear - His speech obviously stirred a lot of feelings in all of us because he was UNCLEAR. At this point in his career ED must be careful, and respect the power and potency of his words. Please Eddie maybe blame the alcohol... Mr. Vedder; it’s time please assume responsibility for your words and actions. I am a long long time devoted and now very disappointed & heartbroken fan. Please clarify!!!!
Klausen,That was a walk off pal.When you got done typing I hope you dropped the mic to the floor and walked out of the room without looking back.Very well done.
Kick a hole in the speaker, pull the plug, and then jet...
Ed's anti-asshole. He doesn't care what flag you fly.
Eddie Vedder (or whoever gets this) With all due respect I would like to address the members of PJ and Ed Vedder.
Ed's speech the other night was very confusing and obviously requires clarification. It seems you are indicating that Israel is purposely firing rockets at children. Isn’t Israel warning their attackers that in self defense they will be firing in specific areas that need to be evacuated? Obama himself has said about Israel: "There’s just not another country in the world that would allow missiles to be rained down on them without fighting back"
When did Israel purposely fire a rocket at children?? Not in self defense??
How can you condemn a country for acting in self defense? It is so unlike you Ed and unlike Pearl Jam.
Bill Maher said it best - "What I find so ironic is that after World War II, everybody said, ‘I don’t understand the Jews. How could they have just gone to their slaughter like that?’, and then when they fight back: ‘I don’t understand the Jews. Why can’t they just go to their slaughter?’ Its like, ‘You know what? We did that once. It’s not gonna happen again. You’re just gonna have to get used to the fact that Jews now defend themselves -- and by the way, defend themselves better."
If not clarified, Ed's speech can somehow seem pro HAMAS (a terrorist organization) Is Ed Pro Hamas??? I agree PRO PEACE is right, but SEEMINGLY taking sides with a terrorist group like Hamas (and publicly no-less) is WRONG. And Ed's not clearly indicating that he is not taking sides was also wrong. He is not clear - His speech obviously stirred a lot of feelings in all of us because he was UNCLEAR. At this point in his career ED must be careful, and respect the power and potency of his words. Please Eddie maybe blame the alcohol... Mr. Vedder; it’s time please assume responsibility for your words and actions. I am a long long time devoted and now very disappointed & heartbroken fan. Please clarify!!!!
So because eds against Israel dropping bombs on Palestinians and killing children with his tax money makes him pro Hamas? That's fucken funny, and some of you are saying eds uneducated????
I never get the idea that EV is really informed on political issues. Maybe he's intentionally uninformed or underinformed, but to view him in any higher light than a pot smoking hippie yelling, "peace dude" is to do an injustice.
let me guess, you know more than him? Or thats what you would like to think
Isnt that what causes these arguments/wars...you think you know, he thinks he knows.....boom conflict
oh if it were so black n white....
Just because someone knows an issue inside and out doesn't make their opinion correct. Not at all. However, I think Ed has a general live and let live approach to all conflicts, international to interpersonal. It's a great way to be, I just don't think ed wants to enter a debate on the merits of each conflict.
Eddie Vedder (or whoever gets this) With all due respect I would like to address the members of PJ and Ed Vedder.
Ed's speech the other night was very confusing and obviously requires clarification. It seems you are indicating that Israel is purposely firing rockets at children. Isn’t Israel warning their attackers that in self defense they will be firing in specific areas that need to be evacuated? Obama himself has said about Israel: "There’s just not another country in the world that would allow missiles to be rained down on them without fighting back"
When did Israel purposely fire a rocket at children?? Not in self defense??
How can you condemn a country for acting in self defense? It is so unlike you Ed and unlike Pearl Jam.
Bill Maher said it best - "What I find so ironic is that after World War II, everybody said, ‘I don’t understand the Jews. How could they have just gone to their slaughter like that?’, and then when they fight back: ‘I don’t understand the Jews. Why can’t they just go to their slaughter?’ Its like, ‘You know what? We did that once. It’s not gonna happen again. You’re just gonna have to get used to the fact that Jews now defend themselves -- and by the way, defend themselves better."
If not clarified, Ed's speech can somehow seem pro HAMAS (a terrorist organization) Is Ed Pro Hamas??? I agree PRO PEACE is right, but SEEMINGLY taking sides with a terrorist group like Hamas (and publicly no-less) is WRONG. And Ed's not clearly indicating that he is not taking sides was also wrong. He is not clear - His speech obviously stirred a lot of feelings in all of us because he was UNCLEAR. At this point in his career ED must be careful, and respect the power and potency of his words. Please Eddie maybe blame the alcohol... Mr. Vedder; it’s time please assume responsibility for your words and actions. I am a long long time devoted and now very disappointed & heartbroken fan. Please clarify!!!!
He never said anything about a country not defending itself. Quite the opposite actually. He said "he gets it" when a country must retaliate against an attack.
He's calling and pleaing for an end to all violence. What's so wrong with that?
by the way, i wanted to thank Ed for being courageous and for speaking out. i have been researching and actively speaking about this occupation since 2009. for people like me who oppose the occupation, it means a lot for Ed to say something, anything, that can even remotely be perceived as taking a stance that opposes it.
he takes a great risk, as people will bury him in the press, like we have already seen in the JP. he will also alienate some people. he seems fine with that. people like me take similar risks for speaking out, as we can lose our jobs and hurt our careers by speaking out. i choose to speak out rather than say nothing. my conscience would not allow me to stay quiet.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
My only input on this is downing bottle after bottle of wine and then talking politics in front of thousands of people is about as wise as asking your girlfriend if she gained weight. It just can't end well. I truly believe his message was peace, but he ended up focusing on one side of the conflict when both sides are every bit as responsible. That I think is where the wine did it's damage lol
breaking news of a 12 hour cease fire coordinated by egypt. let's hope this is true.
Let's hope it turns out better than the ceasefires negotiated in 1948, 1949, 1953, 1967, 1973, 1996, 2008, 2009, 2012....you get the idea
...Wash, Rinse, Repeat...
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2006: Dublin; Leeds; Arnhem
2007: London
2009: Manchester
2012: Manchester I & II : EV Manchester : Soundgarden Shepherds Bush
2013: Brad Manchester : Soundgarden Manchester
2014: Amsterdam I & II; Berlin; Leeds; Milton Keynes
2018: Berlin; London II; Boston II
Bootleg Reviews: http://pjbootlegreviews.blogspot.com/
The control mechanism used by those in power, those who rule over the masses, is divide and conquer.
If you can keep the population divided, then they are easily conquered, easy to steer and manipulate. They will fight amongst themselves and argue and yell and be so preoccupied battling one another, they won't be able to address the real issue as to who is dividing and conquering them. They will always assume it's just the other side that is the problem and look no further.
we live in a world of duality... day/night , male/female, inhale/exhale, you/me, up/down...even within our own bodies we have two hemispheres of our brain, some people are more right brained others more left brained... there is division even within our own biology. So much of our existence is locked into duality.
Those who rule, understand this power of duality and they understand how to use it to manipulate the masses. As I said earlier, the one thing they understand better the anything, is psychology. They give us, the masses, all kinds of polarizing subjects to fight over... religion, guns, immigration, abortion...the topics on the 24/7 "news" shows are always based on polarizing subjects and this is done on purpose... they hire polarizing personalities to host "news" shows... why do you think someone like Bill O'Reilly has the job he does, it's not because of his journalistic background or that he's a much better reporter then anyone else... it's because his opinion is polarizing. "News" channels main template is to have two windows of people just shouting and yelling over each other. We as the viewer watch this, and the natural thing to do is to choose which one of those shouting jackasses you agree more with or you think is the least offensive jackass, even if they're arguing about an issue you don't care about, you pick a side. It's human nature.
In america, if you say you don't like Obama, people instantly assume you're a conservative, because there's only two parties. So if you dislike one side, people instantly assume you support the other side, basing that assumption on nothing other then the nature of duality. There is no in between, only left or right. And those who control the world, understand how to manipulate this aspect of human nature, and they have it down to a science. It's why you'll always only have a two party system in America... you need duality to divide and conquer, to drive a wedge between the masses. You know the best way to deal with a group of people you want to go away, instigate a civil war between them... let them fight and kill each other, it's a tactic that's been used time and time again all over the world. I don't need to waste any energy or my own bullets and resources or risk my own life, i just promote division amongst the group, and if they aren't already divided along some party or religious lines, I can create something that will divide them. All i need is some sort of means to promote division... like owning the media. I just need to be able to stir the pot and rile enough people up and then they'll do the rest.
During Bush jr. he so famously said, "you're either with us, or you're with the terrorists"... so if you disagreed with that administration's policy, you were considered a terrorist....!! That's a bit extreme don't ya think? If you criticized the administration you supported terrorism and hated america. It's even worse now, if you don't agree with the administration, they're getting even more specific and calling people "domestic terrorists", people who support the constitution are labeled as "radical extremist"...!!!
It is the same with the Israel/Palestine issue. This whole thing about choosing a side, is childish. The minute you say you disagree with one side, people instantly assume you support the other and start citing examples of why the other side is to blame and say "you don't understand history because of A B and C, the other side did this first"... at this point in time, who did what to who, who started it or threw the first or last punch is irrelevant, it all has to stop... and that's ed's point.
He's not choosing a side. But people who've been caught up in this conflict forever, can't see that, they are too dug in... you are either with us or you are with them... you can't be against both sides, you have to choose. This is the nature of conflict, choosing a side... peace and resolution, is about not choosing sides, about seeing the points of both sides and coming to an agreement. If you want to continue conflict, you draw a line in the sand and then you demand people choose a side.
And therein lies the problem that keeps us, the masses, enslaved to those who rule over us, calculated division devised to keep us at each other's throats. Meanwhile the rulers of the world sit back and watch and continue to control us, and instead of taking a minute to stop fighting with one another and look at who is truly responsible for our division, we just dig in deeper and deeper into duality and go after each other instead.
Until we rise above duality, and understand the psychological mechanisms of control being used on us, we will always be divided and conquered.
There have been some extremely articulate responses on this forum.
I feel like a 2nd grader that accidently wandered into a college lecture.....
livefootsteps.org/user/?usr=446
1995- New Orleans, LA : New Orleans, LA
1996- Charleston, SC
1998- Atlanta, GA: Birmingham, AL: Greenville, SC: Knoxville, TN
2000- Atlanta, GA: New Orleans, LA: Memphis, TN: Nashville, TN
2003- Raleigh, NC: Charlotte, NC: Atlanta, GA
2004- Asheville, NC (hometown show)
2006- Cincinnati, OH
2008- Columbia, SC
2009- Chicago, IL x 2 / Ed Vedder- Atlanta, GA x 2
2010- Bristow, VA
2011- Alpine Valley, WI (PJ20) x 2 / Ed Vedder- Chicago, IL
2012- Atlanta, GA
2013- Charlotte, NC
2014- Cincinnati, OH
2015- New York, NY
2016- Greenville, SC: Hampton, VA:: Columbia, SC: Raleigh, NC : Lexington, KY: Philly, PA 2: (Wrigley) Chicago, IL x 2 (holy shit): Temple of the Dog- Philly, PA
2017- ED VED- Louisville, KY
2018- Chicago, IL x2, Boston, MA x2
2020- Nashville, TN
2022- Smashville
2023- Austin, TX x2
2024- Baltimore
These rants kill shows. He divides audiences with different backgrounds and makes it about his opinion. He has certainly earned the right to do so. It comes at the expense of the show
livefootsteps.org/user/?usr=446
1995- New Orleans, LA : New Orleans, LA
1996- Charleston, SC
1998- Atlanta, GA: Birmingham, AL: Greenville, SC: Knoxville, TN
2000- Atlanta, GA: New Orleans, LA: Memphis, TN: Nashville, TN
2003- Raleigh, NC: Charlotte, NC: Atlanta, GA
2004- Asheville, NC (hometown show)
2006- Cincinnati, OH
2008- Columbia, SC
2009- Chicago, IL x 2 / Ed Vedder- Atlanta, GA x 2
2010- Bristow, VA
2011- Alpine Valley, WI (PJ20) x 2 / Ed Vedder- Chicago, IL
2012- Atlanta, GA
2013- Charlotte, NC
2014- Cincinnati, OH
2015- New York, NY
2016- Greenville, SC: Hampton, VA:: Columbia, SC: Raleigh, NC : Lexington, KY: Philly, PA 2: (Wrigley) Chicago, IL x 2 (holy shit): Temple of the Dog- Philly, PA
2017- ED VED- Louisville, KY
2018- Chicago, IL x2, Boston, MA x2
2020- Nashville, TN
2022- Smashville
2023- Austin, TX x2
2024- Baltimore
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Reopened. Rude post removed along with all quoting of it. It's an important discussion so be careful to follow the Posting Guidelines while talking. It's possible to talk about it without being abusive or insulting to each other or your hosts. Thank you.
Admin
What's the hell is wrong with that? And why would anyone be surprised? Shit doesn't seem that complicated to me lol
But guess what? I have no interest debating politics on this site with you or anyone else. My point is that Eddie does not support Israel or its right to survival. He said that he does not want his tax dollars invested in bombs to hit children. That comment is used to get his fans also to not support Israel because of who he is. It also is negative toward Israel in that he states they kill children. We all know Hamas uses the civilian population as human shields for its dirty work I am not coming up with anything new or not widely known by all nations. It's not disappointing to me that Eddie Vedder or anyone else does not support Israel but what does bother me is what he says. At this point in his career, it seems odd that he would deliberately go into an anti-Israel rant hiding behind the fact that he does not mention the country. Let's be real here - the US does not provide financial support to Russia or any of the other countries that could possibly fit the inane description used by Vedder. The fact that he would be trying to build a coalition of fans to oppose or "boycott" Israel along with his buddy Roger Waters is very disturbing. Also, the timing of this is particularly interesting - this weekend when just last Friday Waters posted his letter to Neil Young for the world to see, in a last ditch attempt to influence Young (and Young's supporters) to cancel his Israel shows since Young flat out ignored Waters' original letter delivered through his manager.
With all due respect I would like to address the members of PJ and Ed Vedder.
Ed's speech the other night was very confusing and obviously requires clarification.
It seems you are indicating that Israel is purposely firing rockets at children.
Isn’t Israel warning their attackers that in self defense they will be firing in specific areas that need to be evacuated?
Obama himself has said about Israel: "There’s just not another country in the world that would allow missiles to be rained down on them without fighting back"
When did Israel purposely fire a rocket at children?? Not in self defense??
How can you condemn a country for acting in self defense? It is so unlike you Ed and unlike Pearl Jam.
Bill Maher said it best - "What I find so ironic is that after World War II, everybody said, ‘I don’t understand the Jews. How could they have just gone to their slaughter like that?’, and then when they fight back: ‘I don’t understand the Jews. Why can’t they just go to their slaughter?’ Its like, ‘You know what? We did that once. It’s not gonna happen again. You’re just gonna have to get used to the fact that Jews now defend themselves -- and by the way, defend themselves better."
If not clarified, Ed's speech can somehow seem pro HAMAS (a terrorist organization) Is Ed Pro Hamas???
I agree PRO PEACE is right, but SEEMINGLY taking sides with a terrorist group like Hamas (and publicly no-less) is WRONG.
And Ed's not clearly indicating that he is not taking sides was also wrong.
He is not clear - His speech obviously stirred a lot of feelings in all of us because he was UNCLEAR.
At this point in his career ED must be careful, and respect the power and potency of his words.
Please Eddie maybe blame the alcohol...
Mr. Vedder; it’s time please assume responsibility for your words and actions.
I am a long long time devoted and now very disappointed & heartbroken fan.
Please clarify!!!!
Ed's anti-asshole. He doesn't care what flag you fly.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
He's calling and pleaing for an end to all violence. What's so wrong with that?
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
he takes a great risk, as people will bury him in the press, like we have already seen in the JP. he will also alienate some people. he seems fine with that. people like me take similar risks for speaking out, as we can lose our jobs and hurt our careers by speaking out. i choose to speak out rather than say nothing. my conscience would not allow me to stay quiet.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
...Wash, Rinse, Repeat...