Jerusalem Post/Ben Red Completely Off Base In Criticism of Eddie and Pearl Jam

melissachun

Eddie or Pearl Jam don't owe us anything. They do not exist to please us. They exist because they have a passion to create music that is inspired by many things, including the state of the world we all share as human beings. Granted, I tend to agree with everything they say, but if I didn't, I wouldn't expect them to change or shut up to please me. They create art and you either appreciate it or you don't. Buy it or don't. But making compromises to sell tickets or cds or whatever is the antithesis of what has made Pearl Jam "more than a band" to so many of us.

bradklausen

SkeeterB said:

bradklausen said:

all the things you listed, are generic actions of war.... two sides drop bombs on each other... one side goes and tries to take land that doesn't belong to them... leaders on both sides are looking for a reason to kill (it's war that what you do in war).... citizens of any country don't want to give up their tax money to drop bombs on children.

while perhaps seeing events happening with Israeli/Palestinian conflict in the news might have been a catalyst for his remarks... he was speaking in general terms about the elements of the world who seek war instead of peace regardless of what country they come from.

his comments were much boarder in scope then pertaining to a particular incident.

If that's the case, he needs to come out and say it. Pearl Jam fans have been one big family, all looking out for each other, and really it being all about the music. His comments the other night have created a divide in the fan base, which in turn, have really alienated the Jewish fan base. Back in the day, yeah, he'd go off on Bush and what not, but the tone of his voice seemed like so much vented hatred, it's disturbing. My guess is that this will go by the wayside, but it really needs to be addressed.

he did come out and say it, he was making generalizations about war, there was nothing uncertain or confusing about it... if there's any division being caused it's because people are making assumptions and jumping to conclusions based off the article of one dude who completely missed the point and took it personally. Listening to ed's comments, it's fairly obvious he's not speaking towards any one nation, and at no point when I heard what he said did I think "oh he's talking about Israel". The fact that this is even an issue is quite surprising to me...the guy was talking about war vs. peace... pretty cut and dry. Make art, fuck, have a good time...don't kill and hate each other planet earth. His tone seem to be out of frustration, that we continue killing one another.

evenflow82

Although I am liberal I am not as liberal as Ed. Who cares? He criticizes America as I do sometimes. Does every person have to hold the exact beliefs as you? No. Does it mean you can't be friends with someone? No.

Israel isn't the 51st state in America and neither is Palestine.

bradklausen

badbrains said:

Brad, I've seen the pics and have also seen the ones from syria, Iraq, and Palestine. Shits fucked up all over the world. But we're talking about Israel/Palestine. People can make all the excuses they want, in no way am I talking about u brad. It is what it is and eddies eyes say it all. He was angry and pissed. He called out Israel without actually saying Israel. This is bad and we'll see what happens. We'll see if he caves in and makes some sort of "mis spoke bullshit excuse" or if he says ya I said it and I stand by it. Maybe roger waters has something to do with this or maybe eddie actually deep down inside feels this way. And people we have to remember, this is a piece of land surrounded by Israel and is basically an "open" prison" if there's such a thing. A good movie produced by John Pilger I believe it's called Palestine is still the question? Something like that. Very good documentary. Who the fuck knows what's te reason eddie said it. He said it. And good for him.

badbrains... I agree..."we" are talking about Israel/Palestine...but I don't think his comments were about that specifically... at all. I bring up other conflicts like Iraq to illustrate that he was speaking in generalizations because just as you said "shit's fucked up all over the world" and that is ed's whole point. He was angry and pissed, as we all should be that we as a species can't seem to stop killing one another, that we have all this amazing technology but we as a species haven't evolved along side it. If you think he was calling out Israel, then that's your assumption... because I saw it entirely differently, and at no point did he specifically reference Israel... he was calling out the elements of human nature that opt for war and killing instead of peace and love. I am not trying to make excuses for him ( i know you weren't saying I was), I am merely responding to what I saw a guy say in a video... what I saw a guy say who in the past has been anti-war and pro-peace... so from an impartial perspective, of just listening to some guy's opinions in a youtube clip, I am not getting any of the calling out Israel aspect that others are... in my opinion, based on what he's saying and what I know of what he's said in the past, he's speaking to humanity as a whole because "shit's fucked up all over the world" just like you said.

that's my take on what I saw.

bootlegger10

Eddie's opinion is just like the opinion of everyone in this thread. We are all human with day jobs and thoughts on the world. I am not going to get worked up over what Eddie Vedder says just like I am not going to get worked up over what someone in this thread says. Maybe it is because I wouldn't be shocked that Eddie would be against Israeli leadership.

Edit: Just watched the speech and Ed is without question talking about Israel and the US sending money to Israel. 100%, without any doubt. He talks about crossing borders and dropping bombs (which Israel is doing). ISIS is going town to town but not crossing borders. I don't think Ed would accuse them of creating reasons to kill and the Iraqi government isn't crossing borders so they aren't being referenced either. 100% Israel. That rage is fueled by frustration with people in charge Ed disagrees with and we saw Bush fuel it and now Israeli leadership.

rr165892

Here is a very good first step.You have to start somewhere.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/13/opinion/oren-mideast-crisis-solution/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

bradklausen

bootlegger10 said:

Eddie's opinion is just like the opinion of everyone in this thread. We are all human with day jobs and thoughts on the world. I am not going to get worked up over what Eddie Vedder says just like I am not going to get worked up over what someone in this thread says. Maybe it is because I wouldn't be shocked that Eddie would be against Israeli leadership.

Edit: Just watched the speech and Ed is without question talking about Israel and the US sending money to Israel. 100%, without any doubt. He talks about crossing borders and dropping bombs (which Israel is doing). ISIS is going town to town but not crossing borders. I don't think Ed would accuse them of creating reasons to kill and the Iraqi government isn't crossing borders so they aren't being referenced either. 100% Israel. That rage is fueled by frustration with people in charge Ed disagrees with and we saw Bush fuel it and now Israeli leadership.

just watched it again too to see if I am missing something... he says "we don't want to give them our money, they don't get our taxes to drop bombs on children"... at no point does he say WE the US shouldn't send money to israel... all the WE's he says are the general "we", all of us human beings meaning those of us living peacefully and not causing war... WE, the citizens of the world, don't want to give our money to war mongers in any nation. We, humans of all nations don't want to give our taxes to bomb builders. It's all generalizations about the bigger picture, about human beings.

And again, crossing borders and dropping bombs are generalizations about war... all wars involve one nation crossing into another nation's borders and all modern wars involve dropping bombs.

His rage is at all leaders of any nation who promote and generate war... at no point does he specifically call out Israel...ever. Does Israel cross borders and drop bombs, does the US cross borders and drop bombs, does Russia cross borders and drop bombs... yes... any warring faction in any conflict crosses borders and drops bombs. So much is being read into this that isn't being said.

the whole message is a message to humanity, not to one nation.

JimmyV

OK, so I finally watched this clip. I think Israel probably did trigger the rant, but the rant was directed at many more than just a single country, faction or group. I think if you are listening to that speech and hearing that Eddie hates Israel, you are hearing something that is not being said or even implied.

rr165892

Brad,if you want to make your eyes bleed,this discussion has been going on for months in the thread"Bring Pearl Jam to Israel".
Much like the conflict itself ,the discussion seems to go in a circle.Between all sides.Lots of passion,lots of opinion,No solution.
I agree, Ed was talking war in general.Inspired by actions in Israel/Gaza I'm sure,but not only that conflict.Those who want to see it for or against will indeed see or hear what they need to make their case.And around we go again.

bradklausen

rr165892 said:

Brad,if you want to make your eyes bleed,this discussion has been going on for months in the thread"Bring Pearl Jam to Israel".
Much like the conflict itself ,the discussion seems to go in a circle.Between all sides.Lots of passion,lots of opinion,No solution.
I agree, Ed was talking war in general.Inspired by actions in Israel/Gaza I'm sure,but not only that conflict.Those who want to see it for or against will indeed see or hear what they need to make their case.And around we go again.

I don't know why I am so invested in this conversation... I think because it's sad to me that people are missing the point entirely of a very passionate speech about love over war. About the truth of the matter that most of us want to go to a concert and be happy and don't want war, yet we are saddled with war by a few evil fucks in all nations who rule over all of us in every nation. It's a speech talking about the desire for the unity of humanity, and people are using it to divide...it's ridiculous.

And it's quite possible the israel/palestine conflict was the catalyst for the speech, maybe he saw something on the news that day... but it seems like it was just the last straw... it could have been any conflict, that was just the most recent event... one of those moment where you don't care who is doing what to who, you are just sick and tired of all the conflict happening everywhere.

If he had made the same speech at a time where Israel and Palestine were in a ceasefire, no one would be thinking he was talking specifically about that... they'd all see he was speaking about war in general. If Russia had just done something in the Ukraine that day, or vice versa, you wouldn't have all this drama. If the US had sent drones into another country that day you wouldn't have all this drama.

gimmesometruth27

this was about israel. no doubt about it.

we provide israel on average $3.5 billion in military aid every year. this is planes, bombs, missiles, defense equipment, and israel is bombing hospitals and mosques. ed was friends with howard zinn. the band has recomended reading works from people like chomsky and norman finkelstein.

to think ed was talking about anything else, you have not been paying attention.

dfishberg

I think that there is one thing we can all agree on in this thread -- BK's MK print was freaking amazing! Now Santos -- just hook me up with a DC Reaper in a Mystery Tube and there will be peace and love, peace and love, throughout the world!

bradklausen

gimmesometruth27 said:

this was about israel. no doubt about it.

we provide israel on average $3.5 billion in military aid every year. this is planes, bombs, missiles, defense equipment, and israel is bombing hospitals and mosques. ed was friends with howard zinn. the band has recomended reading works from people like chomsky and norman finkelstein.

to think ed was talking about anything else, you have not been paying attention.

he never mentions giving money to israel, not once... he mentions that people, humans of the world, WE, all of us who don't run nations, don't want to give money to the rulers of our nations to build bombs.

gimmesometruth27

bradklausen said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

this was about israel. no doubt about it.

we provide israel on average $3.5 billion in military aid every year. this is planes, bombs, missiles, defense equipment, and israel is bombing hospitals and mosques. ed was friends with howard zinn. the band has recomended reading works from people like chomsky and norman finkelstein.

to think ed was talking about anything else, you have not been paying attention.

he never mentions giving money to israel, not once... he mentions that people, humans of the world, WE, all of us who don't run nations, don't want to give money to the rulers of our nations to build bombs.

then we should not pay taxes at all. because that is what governments spend money on.

bradklausen

gimmesometruth27 said:

bradklausen said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

this was about israel. no doubt about it.

we provide israel on average $3.5 billion in military aid every year. this is planes, bombs, missiles, defense equipment, and israel is bombing hospitals and mosques. ed was friends with howard zinn. the band has recomended reading works from people like chomsky and norman finkelstein.

to think ed was talking about anything else, you have not been paying attention.

he never mentions giving money to israel, not once... he mentions that people, humans of the world, WE, all of us who don't run nations, don't want to give money to the rulers of our nations to build bombs.

then we should not pay taxes at all. because that is what governments spend money on.

well in theory they spend it also on infrastructure, maintaing roads, building libraries, making sure the country runs... they also spend it on weapons... but the point of his speech isn't about taxes, it's about choosing love over war.

PJammer4life

What I got from the rant was that a huge number if people were enjoying a night of music coming together from all over the world, but not too far away bombs are dropping. Eddie's wish was for the wars and violence to end and for people to live together and start building a society where people can enjoy music and life rather than be living with hate and fear.

JimmyV

When Eddie went on his gun control rant in Hartford he referenced Newtown and specifically mentioned the NRA and the gun lobby. My guess is that if he was speaking specifically about Israel he would have mentioned Israel. He didn't, and I don't believe he was.

badbrains

Well now that the euro tour is over, the boys are heading back to the states. No doubt someone is gonna ask mr vedder to clarify his remarks. That's def gonna happen.

Again, no offense brad or whoever may feel the same, there is no doubt eddie was talking about Israel. Even some on the thread here who are either Jewish or from Israel admit it. One even said it's gonna take time for it to sink in or something to that extent. Tax payer money funding bombs killing children, people crossing borders and "taking/stealing" land that's not there's, he's def talking Israel. No doubt. And until he comes out and says differently, that's what I'll believe. Let's be real here, I know it must hurt if you're either from Israel or Jewish and love pearl jam to hear eddie say that. But as others have said, how can u be surprised by his feelings on the matter.

RiotZact

JimmyV said:

When Eddie went on his gun control rant in Hartford he referenced Newtown and specifically mentioned the NRA and the gun lobby. My guess is that if he was speaking specifically about Israel he would have mentioned Israel. He didn't, and I don't believe he was.

Yeah people act as if Ed's afraid to speak his mind, the dude walked out on stage wearing a George bush mask every night for fucks sake.

bradklausen

badbrains said:

Well now that the euro tour is over, the boys are heading back to the states. No doubt someone is gonna ask mr vedder to clarify his remarks. That's def gonna happen.

Again, no offense brad or whoever may feel the same, there is no doubt eddie was talking about Israel. Even some on the thread here who are either Jewish or from Israel admit it. One even said it's gonna take time for it to sink in or something to that extent. Tax payer money funding bombs killing children, people crossing borders and "taking/stealing" land that's not there's, he's def talking Israel. No doubt. And until he comes out and says differently, that's what I'll believe. Let's be real here, I know it must hurt if you're either from Israel or Jewish and love pearl jam to hear eddie say that. But as others have said, how can u be surprised by his feelings on the matter.

badbrains... no offense taken... and likewise, please take no offense in my comments, as this is merely a discussion from two different viewpoints...

you are misconstruing his words...

the nazis in WW II crossed borders and stole land that didn't belong to them using tax payer funded bombs killing children.

the US crossed borders in Vietnam and both Iraq wars and in Afghanistan and pretty much every conflict we've been involved in (as we have military bases all over the world on land that was not ours) using tax payer funded bombs to kill children

you cannot say he is without a doubt speaking about Israel, when the points you are using to make that claim are true of countless other incidents throughout history.