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Jerusalem Post/Ben Red Completely Off Base In Criticism of Eddie and Pearl Jam

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    usamamasan1usamamasan1 Posts: 4,695
    Good choice
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    RiotZactRiotZact Posts: 6,207

    badbrains said:

    I dnt understand how someone pretty much says he doesn't want his tax payer dollars to support the dropping of bombs killing children and here's the telling part, crossing over borders and taking land that's NOT there's. Pretty fucken clear who he's talking about. To say it's fucken Cambodia or Russia or Canada is complete bullshit. He ment Israel and he ment the crazy lunatics that want to kill running that country. And if u think other wise, like someone posted above, keep telling yourself that. Again. Thank u eddie for attaching your name to this cause.

    All wars are one nation crossing into another's borders to take their land and resources. Whatever bs reason they say they doing it for, like protecting the world from bad guys or for "freedom" is just the cover so one nation can own what another nation has. Like the US crossing borders into Iraq...or the US crossing borders into Afghanistan to gain control of their poppy fields / production... that's why you go to war, to take what does not belong to you... but you need a good cover story to do that because the masses won't support blatant stealing... so they say there's a terrible tyrant killing his own people or ready to attack us... all wars are resource and land wars.

    In theory a US citizen's tax dollars wouldn't be paying for Israeli bombs, they'd be paying for US bombs, the ones we drop on innocent children...like the depleted uranium bombs we dropped on Iraq... you should see the images of birth defects caused by depleted uranium in Iraq... it's quite disturbing.


    My countrymen and family have killed and died so you can draw pictures for a living
    Wow you must have your ancestry traced back pretty far then! Impressive!
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    usamamasan1usamamasan1 Posts: 4,695
    Thanks
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    EarlWelshEarlWelsh Buffalo, NY Posts: 1,103
    edited July 2014
    8-}
    Post edited by EarlWelsh on
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    MiiikeMiiike Posts: 436
    OH NO - this whole thing makes me so sad, SO SAD!

    The thought that some of Eddie’s Jewish fans could feel somehow betrayed by his pro-love, anti-war speech is so devastating . . .

    As Brad Klausen has said – how has a speech that is about unity, been turned into something that divides? How on earth did a passionate plea for peace, get corrupted to reinforce an ideology of US versus THEM?

    That is how insidious the ideology of war is . . . it infects everything. It can turn a touching, passionate, DRUNK (he was so hammered!) anti-war speech, into something else entirely . . .

    I have to agree with what the OP and some others have said, the people that are posting this anti-war speech as an anti-Israel speech are being irresponsible! They are contributing to the mentality of US vs THEM, to the idea that if you are not with us, you are the ENEMY. They’re being INFLAMMATORY . . . which does no fucking good for anyone . . .

    And not only that, but THEY ARE FUCKING WITH PEOPLE’S FANDOM.

    And you really shouldn’t fuck with people’s fandom, there is so much bad shit happening in the world that to get a little comfort from a band is kinda sacred. And they wouldn’t even know they’re doing it — because they’re so deeply buried in the grief, despair, and warrior mentality that this conflict creates . . .

    I can understand why so many Jews are suspicious, I can. Anti-Semitism is still fucking alive and well in the 21st Century. It’s pathetic and it makes me SO MAD. As one guy said, it’s as if people have forgotten about the holocaust. It EXISTS, everywhere, and it DISGUSTS me, especially after the horrors the Jews have been through. We all know it exists . . .

    But please, any fans who are reading this who feel somehow betrayed, PLEASE don’t think because Eddie is anti-war, and despises violence of any kind (but more than anything, the governments that perpetrate the violence) that he has a single anti-Semitic bone in his body. Or that he is rooting for one side of the conflict.

    I feel for Ben Red and his supporters. I do. I feel for everyone who is touched by this endless, sad, horrific conflict. I mean the despair and grief people feel is palpable. Only grief and despair could induce people to relish in the kidnapping & murder of 3 innocent boys, and only grief and despair could induce people to take up a chair to watch the bombing of Gaza like it’s a football match . . .

    But you can’t buy into any of this inflammatory shit. The more righteous you feel, the less empathy you feel for the ‘enemy’, the people on the other side who are just like you.

    Oh man, I just really REALLY don’t want any fans to feel betrayed by this . . .

    DON’T BUY INTO IT PEARL-JAM FANS. As BradK so eloquently said, divide & conquer - it’s one of the oldest tricks in the book. It’s bullshit. Don’t listen to that voice in your head. There is no anti-Israel sentiment here. Only anti-war.
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    I love lamp
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    melissachunmelissachun Posts: 107
    Only Eddie can say what he meant. I don't think he owes it to anyone to do so, but even if he did choose to clarify his comments, the cynicism would still be there. People who want to vilify him will twist his words to meet their end. This was Eddie's response in 2006, when asked about fans disapproving the "Bush bashing," but it is applicable to any political statement:
    I guess you have to realize this is just part and parcel of what we do... At this time, I feel, “How can you not be talking about this stuff?” I’d be talking about it if I was a bartender. I’d be talking about it if I was a druggist... If there’s any job you should be expressing yourself this kind of way it would be that of a musician or a writer. When some of these bigger problems end, we can shut up and play. I look forward to the day and welcome it. I would love to stop thinking about this stuff. I’m fucking sick of dealing with this. I’m sick of living as an American and knowing that our government has run rampant and, even worse than that, has treated us like we’re idiots.
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    I love lamp
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    i_lov_iti_lov_it Perth, Western Australia Posts: 4,007
    edited July 2014
    Elmo said:

    OH NO - this whole thing makes me so sad, SO SAD!

    The thought that some of Eddie’s Jewish fans could feel somehow betrayed by his pro-love, anti-war speech is so devastating . . .

    They Shouldn't feel betrayed as He was talking about there Government...the ones who Make the decisions to Drop Bombs on other People...I'm sure the Majority of Jewish People are Law abiding Citizens.

    Post edited by i_lov_it on
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    badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255

    I love lamp

    Ya, we get it
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    mp220318mp220318 Seattle Posts: 23
    edited July 2014
    I'm glad Ed said it and it should go without saying that he can say it whether we like it or not. I do't think he needs, as some comments have suggested, a "history lesson" nor does he need to talk about "women in the Middle East." I'm an educator who has lived in the Middle East for over two years (the countries are not the same, by the way) and has worked on the conflict for about a decade. He doesn't need to say anything about "women in the Middle East" because he was talking about our US tax dollars at work in the machinery of the Israeli military. It is a direct connection between us and Israel he was addressing.

    In addition, his comments were certainly addressed to Hamas and the Israeli state but he (rightfully, historically speaking) condemned the Israeli state (without name) for its settlements on the occupied West Bank, which are absolutely taking land away from Palestinians. So, whatever we think about his positions, they are well-founded positions. You may support Israel's colonization efforts and the many other things it does, but his critique (however drunken) was informed and timely. Again, I'm thankful.
    Post edited by mp220318 on
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    i_lov_iti_lov_it Perth, Western Australia Posts: 4,007
    I'm sure He's comments could also be Directed at other Governments as well.
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    mp220318mp220318 Seattle Posts: 23
    His comments could be directed elsewhere but he did say something about "not far from here" and "over there right now." Perhaps the wisdom of it rests on its multiple applications but I'm confident this was directed at the war against Gaza.
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    bradklausenbradklausen Posts: 363
    edited July 2014




    My countrymen and family have killed and died so you can draw pictures for a living

    Everyday, when I sit down to work, I am reminded how fortunate I am to have what I call a kindergarten job where I get to draw pictures for a living... I am more aware of that fact then anyone.

    as for our countrymen and your family and everyone's family in which individuals have had to kill and die serving the country, I think the tragedy of that is best summed up by retired US Marine Corps Major General Smedley Butler who "had received 16 medals, five for heroism. He is one of 19 men to receive the Medal of Honor twice, one of three to be awarded both the Marine Corps Brevet Medal and the Medal of Honor, and the only Marine to be awarded the Brevet Medal and two Medals of Honor, all for separate actions" during his 33 years of service. This is just one of the things he said on this issue, all his thoughts on the matter are worth researching:

    "War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses.

    I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight. The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag.

    I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.

    There isn't a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang is blind to. It has its "finger men" to point out enemies, its "muscle men" to destroy enemies, its "brain men" to plan war preparations, and a "Big Boss" Super-Nationalistic-Capitalism.

    It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty- three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle- man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.

    I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service.

    I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912 (where have I heard that name before?). I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.

    During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents."


    this is an excerpt from a speech he gave in 1933:

    "A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small "inside" group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes.

    In the World War I a mere handful garnered the profits of the conflict. At least 21,000 new millionaires and billionaires were made in the United States during the World War. That many admitted their huge blood gains in their income tax returns. How many other war millionaires falsified their tax returns no one knows.

    How many of these war millionaires shouldered a rifle? How many of them dug a trench? How many of them knew what it meant to go hungry in a rat-infested dug-out? How many of them spent sleepless, frightened nights, ducking shells and shrapnel and machine gun bullets? How many of them parried a bayonet thrust of an enemy? How many of them were wounded or killed in battle?

    Out of war nations acquire additional territory, if they are victorious. They just take it. This newly acquired territory promptly is exploited by the few – the selfsame few who wrung dollars out of blood in the war. The general public shoulders the bill.

    And what is this bill?

    This bill renders a horrible accounting. Newly placed gravestones. Mangled bodies. Shattered minds. Broken hearts and homes. Economic instability. Depression and all its attendant miseries. Back-breaking taxation for generations and generations. "





    Post edited by bradklausen on
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    i_lov_iti_lov_it Perth, Western Australia Posts: 4,007
    mp220318 said:

    His comments could be directed elsewhere but he did say something about "not far from here" and "over there right now." Perhaps the wisdom of it rests on its multiple applications but I'm confident this was directed at the war against Gaza.

    There's no doubt about it that's very Obvious...but I what I meant was that He's Comments can also be used towards other Governments.

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    SpagsSpags Leigh-on-Sea, UK Posts: 2,935
    Brad retorts are best retorts.
    Nature drunk and High
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    eldarion75eldarion75 Posts: 2,488
    this is an excellent, if frightening read on one african americans experience in Israel and Palestine.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ferrari-sheppard/i-traveled-to-palestine_b_4761896.html
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    pdalowskypdalowsky Doncaster,UK Posts: 14,717
    really enjoyed reading Brads comments throughout this thread.

    eloquently puts into words what I presume so many of us think.......

    seriously, take a bow BK

    as one guy said previously, reading those long thought our and articulate comments makes me feel like im just starting nursery.....

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    rr165892rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    So now what?
    Where do we go from here?
    Realalistically how do these 2 sides move forward?
    Is this all about 67 lines and east Jerusulum? I do not see 300-400k settlers up and moving,nor do I see Israel,for security reasons giving up ALL land ? But something needs to give,What?
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    dimitrispearljamdimitrispearljam NINUNINOPRO Posts: 139,158
    rr165892 said:

    So now what?
    Where do we go from here?
    Realalistically how do these 2 sides move forward?
    Is this all about 67 lines and east Jerusulum? I do not see 300-400k settlers up and moving,nor do I see Israel,for security reasons giving up ALL land ? But something needs to give,What?

    u go nowhere..will be more killings ,more blood,more propaganda,more selling guns etc..
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
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    BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    mp220318 said:

    he was talking about our US tax dollars at work in the machinery of the Israeli military. It is a direct connection between us and Israel he was addressing.

    In addition, his comments were certainly addressed to Hamas and the Israeli state but he (rightfully, historically speaking) condemned the Israeli state (without name) for its settlements on the occupied West Bank

    While his comments overall were directed at Israel/Palestine he was not talking about "US dollars at work in the machinery of the Israeli military". He was talking about US dollars at work in the machinery of ALL militaries. The US tax payer funds the PLO/Hamas unity government as well. Eddie wants it all to stop.

    His comments also did not condemn settlements on the occupied West Bank. That is a huge stretch on your part. Again he was speaking in generalities on people who use violence as an excuse to take other people's land. You can maybe assume he is referring to Gaza (which Israel doesn't even want) but he is applying that statement to conflicts all over the world.

    The people such as yourself that are using Eddie's words as support for your cause are just as wrong in the interpretation as those that believe Eddie is against there cause.

    It cannot be more clear Eddie is not Pro-Israel, he is not Anti-Israel, he is not Pro-Palestine, he is not Anti-Palestine, he is definitely not Pro-Hamas as some have listed here (that is just insane). He hates war and wants it all to stop.

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    badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255

    this is an excellent, if frightening read on one african americans experience in Israel and Palestine.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ferrari-sheppard/i-traveled-to-palestine_b_4761896.html

    That was a good read thanks for posting. Amazing.
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    JB128716 said:

    I found another video where Ed sings against War as a Daughter tag from Milton Keynes. This one is better quality. Oh wait, this is from 2002. My bad. Go to about the 4 minute mark.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmoAa93IpT0

    This made me cry.
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    dimitrispearljamdimitrispearljam NINUNINOPRO Posts: 139,158

    JB128716 said:

    I found another video where Ed sings against War as a Daughter tag from Milton Keynes. This one is better quality. Oh wait, this is from 2002. My bad. Go to about the 4 minute mark.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmoAa93IpT0

    This made me cry.

    JB128716 said:

    I found another video where Ed sings against War as a Daughter tag from Milton Keynes. This one is better quality. Oh wait, this is from 2002. My bad. Go to about the 4 minute mark.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmoAa93IpT0

    This made me cry.
    image
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
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    MoonlightingMoonlighting England Posts: 136
    I now feel extremely guilty for telling the Irish guy next to me at Leeds that I was going to knee him in the nuts if his elbow touched me

    I don't believe wars are caused by religion, they may start in the name of religion but it's fear and ego that makes humans attack each other like animals.... except animals can't help it because they have a fixed action pattern... humans are the only beings who can choose how to act, it depends on whether we fuel our ego and fear or our compassionate, humanitarian side, the outcome of both is transparent.
    Absolute Equality.No more.No less - AHFA
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    boyo79boyo79 Warrington, UK Posts: 6,525
    BS44325 said:

    mp220318 said:

    he was talking about our US tax dollars at work in the machinery of the Israeli military. It is a direct connection between us and Israel he was addressing.

    In addition, his comments were certainly addressed to Hamas and the Israeli state but he (rightfully, historically speaking) condemned the Israeli state (without name) for its settlements on the occupied West Bank

    While his comments overall were directed at Israel/Palestine he was not talking about "US dollars at work in the machinery of the Israeli military". He was talking about US dollars at work in the machinery of ALL militaries. The US tax payer funds the PLO/Hamas unity government as well. Eddie wants it all to stop.

    His comments also did not condemn settlements on the occupied West Bank. That is a huge stretch on your part. Again he was speaking in generalities on people who use violence as an excuse to take other people's land. You can maybe assume he is referring to Gaza (which Israel doesn't even want) but he is applying that statement to conflicts all over the world.

    The people such as yourself that are using Eddie's words as support for your cause are just as wrong in the interpretation as those that believe Eddie is against there cause.

    It cannot be more clear Eddie is not Pro-Israel, he is not Anti-Israel, he is not Pro-Palestine, he is not Anti-Palestine, he is definitely not Pro-Hamas as some have listed here (that is just insane). He hates war and wants it all to stop.

    That last paragraph. Its fairly simple isn't it? Yet people are choosing to ignore his statement is to end all war. No matter where it is in the World or who started it. The only side Ed is on is the side of peace. As we all should be.
    2000: Manchester
    2006: Dublin; Leeds; Arnhem
    2007: London
    2009: Manchester
    2012: Manchester I & II : EV Manchester : Soundgarden Shepherds Bush
    2013: Brad Manchester : Soundgarden Manchester
    2014: Amsterdam I & II; Berlin; Leeds; Milton Keynes
    2018: Berlin; London II; Boston II

    Bootleg Reviews: http://pjbootlegreviews.blogspot.com/
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    dimitrispearljamdimitrispearljam NINUNINOPRO Posts: 139,158

    I now feel extremely guilty for telling the Irish guy next to me at Leeds that I was going to knee him in the nuts if his elbow touched me

    I don't believe wars are caused by religion, they may start in the name of religion but it's fear and ego that makes humans attack each other like animals.... except animals can't help it because they have a fixed action pattern... humans are the only beings who can choose how to act, it depends on whether we fuel our ego and fear or our compassionate, humanitarian side, the outcome of both is transparent.

    religion is one of the"pill" makes u forget how shitty war is..
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
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    MoonlightingMoonlighting England Posts: 136

    religion is one of the"pill" makes u forget how shitty war is..


    I'm not sure if anything can make us forget how shitty war is... We won't ever forget, but if wars are stopped now, then perhaps the souls yet to arrive on Earth won't know that word.

    Absolute Equality.No more.No less - AHFA
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    PJ51390PJ51390 Atlanta Posts: 728
    dfishberg said:

    Of course Ed was talking about the conflict. I find it interesting that he would tag this rant off of Daughter considering the message of that song and the current state of women's rights in the Middle East. I fully support Ed's right to sat whatever he wants, and off course, no one wants to see bombings, but I think Ed may need a history lesson before he engages in another one of his drunken ramblings.

    Totally agree. I think folks here think that just because EV says something it is the gospel and hang on everything he says, just because he is able to say it in a public forum.

    Do your home work and form your own opinions.
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    boyo79boyo79 Warrington, UK Posts: 6,525
    PJ51390 said:

    dfishberg said:

    Of course Ed was talking about the conflict. I find it interesting that he would tag this rant off of Daughter considering the message of that song and the current state of women's rights in the Middle East. I fully support Ed's right to sat whatever he wants, and off course, no one wants to see bombings, but I think Ed may need a history lesson before he engages in another one of his drunken ramblings.

    Totally agree. I think folks here think that just because EV says something it is the gospel and hang on everything he says, just because he is able to say it in a public forum.

    Do your home work and form your own opinions.
    The only opinion needed is wanting peace surely?

    2000: Manchester
    2006: Dublin; Leeds; Arnhem
    2007: London
    2009: Manchester
    2012: Manchester I & II : EV Manchester : Soundgarden Shepherds Bush
    2013: Brad Manchester : Soundgarden Manchester
    2014: Amsterdam I & II; Berlin; Leeds; Milton Keynes
    2018: Berlin; London II; Boston II

    Bootleg Reviews: http://pjbootlegreviews.blogspot.com/
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