Jerusalem Post/Ben Red Completely Off Base In Criticism of Eddie and Pearl Jam

SkeeterB

badbrains said:

But as others have said, how can u be surprised by his feelings on the matter.

Because they were one sided and he is very un-informed and un-educated on a very delicate topic. The hatred in his tone was disturbing.

People seem to forget that a mere 70 years ago, 6 million Jews were killed in the Holocaust.

JimmyV

dfishberg said:

I think that there is one thing we can all agree on in this thread -- BK's MK print was freaking amazing! Now Santos -- just hook me up with a DC Reaper in a Mystery Tube and there will be peace and love, peace and love, throughout the world!

Yep, Brad knocked that one out of the park.

You get the Reaper, I get a Mansfield 1998, and all the children of the world sing a song of peace.

SkeeterB

bradklausen said:

badbrains... no offense taken... and likewise, please take no offense in my comments, as this is merely a discussion from two different viewpoints...

you are misconstruing his words...

the nazis in WW II crossed borders and stole land that didn't belong to them using tax payer funded bombs killing children.

the US crossed borders in Vietnam and both Iraq wars and in Afghanistan and pretty much every conflict we've been involved in (as we have military bases all over the world on land that was not ours) using tax payer funded bombs to kill children

you cannot say he is without a doubt speaking about Israel, when the points you are using to make that claim are true of countless other incidents throughout history.

Brad...because he said 'not too far from here' and it's current.

E.K

It gets worse on Facebook. Sorry if this link has been posted before

https://www.facebook.com/TheJerusalemPost/posts/582505295204480

bradklausen

SkeeterB said:

badbrains said:

But as others have said, how can u be surprised by his feelings on the matter.

Because they were one sided and he is very un-informed and un-educated on a very delicate topic. The hatred in his tone was disturbing.

People seem to forget that a mere 70 years ago, 6 million Jews were killed in the Holocaust.

they were only one sided in that his comments were for the side of humanity, for all of us everywhere, and against the small side of the few handful of leaders of all nations that use war to dominate and control the masses.

this had nothing to do with Israel... and his tone was aimed at the few people who oppress humanity through war, not at Israel, or at the Israeli people.... if anyone thinks ed has any ounce of hate in him for a particular group of people, aside from the elite rulers of nations, then you haven't been following this band and listening to his lyrics...

the rulers of a nation, be it Israel, or the US, or Egypt, or France, or Spain, or wherever, aren't it's people... to be critical of politicians and their actions is not to be critical of the people of that nation and it's the same as being critical of Bush or Obama... it doesn't mean you are critical of the american people.

SkeeterB... he wasn't aiming this at any nation, his hatred is rightfully aimed at those who continue to promote war all over the globe.

SkeeterB

Brad - I appreciate your comments and hope that you're right. If anyone has some insight into him, you'd know best. I am so torn on this because I know that he's a pacifist, hates war, and is about peace and love. But the way it came out of his mouth and the timing have rubbed me the wrong way. It's great that we have different perspectives and gives me hope, but it still bothers me and I really am torn.

Drowned Out

If we can agree that the catalyst for this rant was the Israel/Palestine conflict..(and realistically it's the only one that makes sense, because they've played many shows since the ISIS and Ukraine crises began)...then what to make of him speaking about stealing land and giving tax money to drop bombs on children? Only israel is stealing land, not Hamas. Israel, not Hamas, gets US tax dollars....As for dropping bombs on children - how many Israeli children have had a bomb drop on them in this conflict? I believe the answer is zero, while I expect the Palestinian death toll to rise above 200 killed, 2000 injured today. I think THAT is where the anger and frustration is coming from. Yes, from war in general. But if Israel was the catalyst, and the words were framed in a way that only criticizes israel, it's not a stretch to say he was speaking about Israel for parts of the speech - the parts the Israelis are upset about. If he wasn't framing his words to express frustration with Israel, there would not be the outcry from israeli's that is happening now. Both they and the Palestinian solidarity crowd think he was talking about Israel.


If he doesn't want to make a statement as a public figure, and put his life thru the wringer of anti-Semite accusations from the Israel lobby, or if other band members would prefer not to be involved....if he would prefer to speak vaguely and somewhat diplomatically, I understand. But I'm thankful that he at least alluded to the fact that maybe there is a start and end point in the conflict that we've agree was the catalyst for the rant: stealing land.

There are three ways Ed can handle this:
-say it wasn't about Israel and not comment further.
-Say no more about the topic.
-address the controversy and give a clear stance.

I'm guessing #2 wins.

bradklausen

SkeeterB said:

bradklausen said:

badbrains... no offense taken... and likewise, please take no offense in my comments, as this is merely a discussion from two different viewpoints...

you are misconstruing his words...

the nazis in WW II crossed borders and stole land that didn't belong to them using tax payer funded bombs killing children.

the US crossed borders in Vietnam and both Iraq wars and in Afghanistan and pretty much every conflict we've been involved in (as we have military bases all over the world on land that was not ours) using tax payer funded bombs to kill children

you cannot say he is without a doubt speaking about Israel, when the points you are using to make that claim are true of countless other incidents throughout history.

Brad...because he said 'not too far from here' and it's current.

As I've said, it's quite possible that was the catalyst for his comments, but the speech in general was not aimed at Israel or the people of Israel... it was aimed at the leaders of countries who choose war over diplomacy, at human beings that would rather destroy then create...

at no point did he call out israel or the israeli people... he's speaking generally... nobody asked my opinion if we should invade Iraq, or to send drones into Pakistan, or fire missiles into all the places we like to fire missiles... a few people behind closed doors who aren't me, who aren't the american public did that... if someone were to then be critical of "America" doing these things, I would know they aren't being critical of me and my fellow countrymen... rather the criticism is solely aimed at the few politicians who made those decisions and are responsible for that policy. And myself as an American, I am appalled at the things american politicians do under our name and feel they shouldn't be free of criticism, especially when they are killing people... in fact that is when we should be most criitcal of our leaders. Criticism of a nation's policies is not criticism of the people of that nation.

so if someone called out my leaders for actions that I had no part in, I know they are not calling me out or have ill will towards me. If the CEO of a company kicks sand in the face of some kids at the beach and people call him an asshole, they aren't calling all the people who work for that company an asshole.

I've never spoken to Ed personally about this, but I can guarantee you that he has no hatred for any country... the guy travels the globe and is shown insanely massive love every where he goes, you don't think he reciprocates that? I've seen no other band where the front man takes the time to try and learn the language of every country he is in so he can connect with the people of that country.

Vedd Hedd

I'm American. I have heard Ed talk about American politics, criticize US government policies, and rail against certain things.

I have often agreed with him, sometimes disagreed, but always made me think. Everyone is allowed to their thoughts, and their points of view. If you value someone's opinion most of the time, its definitely worth thinking about it when you disagree with them. You might not end up agreeing, but some new perspective is always healthy.

And in the end, you can still always choose to disagree.

PJfanwillneverleave1

This thread should really be sent to AMT

PJammer4life

"people crossing borders and "taking/stealing" land that's not theirs, he's def talking Israel. No doubt"..Umm,,before all the ISIS and Gaza shit, Russia stealing the Crimea vs. Ukraine was a pretty big deal. That land was stolen. And when the side taking it has nuclear weapons, not much can be done but sanctions. Unless Ed specifically stated Israel, there is a lot left to him making a blanket statement about the state of the WHOLE WORLD being a mess, not just THAT ongoing conflict. I believe there should be an Israel, and would rather my tax money go there than to Pakistan, or Syrian Rebels, or an inept Iraqi government. If Mexico started to shell Los Angeles or Dallas with rockets we sure as fuck would retaliate. But once again, I think Eddie was not singling out Israel.

Spags

bradklausen said:

And myself as an American, I am appalled at the things american politicians do under our name and feel they shouldn't be free of criticism, especially when they are killing people... in fact that is when we should be most criitcal of our leaders. Criticism of a nation's policies is not criticism of the people of that nation.

It would seem that a large number of Israel's people are caught in the grip of Nationalism and religious dogma (God gave us this land), which perhaps doesn't afford them the freedom to be as objective as Americans and criticize their leaders? Thus an attack on those leaders could be seen as an attack on their people too, in their eyes that is.

notforconsumption

@Brad There's really no point to try to convince them about what is to me and evidently to most of us, obvious.

Ed was very passionately addressing the craziness of war, in general. Most probably the tip of the iceberg has been the recent Gaza events. But it seems that this planet has been in constant ongoing conflict for...well, for forever now! War in general IS the issue.

If we come down to it, it seems to me that the leaders/coordinators of "Bring PJ to Israel" were not entirely motivated by their love for the music and the band but were seeking some sort of recognition, agreement for their political stance/beliefs.

It's like they were waiting for something like this to happen, so they can grab on to as proof that the reason the band is not playing Israel is because they oppose the Israeli stance on the Palestinian issue.

This is very sad and I hope this is not true.

Drowned Out

PJammer4life said:

"people crossing borders and "taking/stealing" land that's not theirs, he's def talking Israel. No doubt"..Umm,,before all the ISIS and Gaza shit, Russia stealing the Crimea vs. Ukraine was a pretty big deal. That land was stolen. And when the side taking it has nuclear weapons, not much can be done but sanctions. Unless Ed specifically stated Israel, there is a lot left to him making a blanket statement about the state of the WHOLE WORLD being a mess, not just THAT ongoing conflict. I believe there should be an Israel, and would rather my tax money go there than to Pakistan, or Syrian Rebels, or an inept Iraqi government. If Mexico started to shell Los Angeles or Dallas with rockets we sure as fuck would retaliate. But once again, I think Eddie was not singling out Israel.

Again....those conflicts have been going on for weeks and months. Pj has played plenty of shows since, in which Ed could have mentioned them. He went on this rant immediately after Israel started bombing gaza.
Even if he did NOT mean to speak against Israel, they are the nation currently most damned by his words, hence the outrage from the Israelis who support their government's actions.

Drowned Out

notforconsumption said:

.

If we come down to it, it seems to me that the leaders/coordinators of "Bring PJ to Israel" were not entirely motivated by their love for the music and the band but were seeking some sort of recognition, agreement for their political stance/beliefs.

It's like they were waiting for something like this to happen, so they can grab on to as proof that the reason the band is not playing Israel is because they oppose the Israeli stance on the Palestinian issue.

This is very sad and I hope this is not true.

In their campaign thread, I repeatedly asked the organizers this question, and I was never once dignified by any response:

Would you issue a statement denouncing the discrimmination of your government against Palestinians? Would you at least symbolically show a Palestinian flag as a show of solidarity in one of your youtube vids? Or are we just paying lip service to the notion that you are peaceful and do not support your government's actions?

Their organizers have been throwing hissy fits, attacking people on fb since the vid was uploaded. And I want to say, those fb comments in the link posted on the previous page are so fucked. Many Israeli supporters wishing death on Eddie, one even suggesting his wife and daughters be sent to jihadis. Wtf is wrong with people? :(

notforconsumption

The Facebook comments and the comments on the Jerusalem Post article are out of control!

Spags

Yep :(

boyo79

If Ed was specifically talking about Israel he would have said. The guy doesn't shy away from topics like this and if he meant Israel he would have directly said. At no point during his speech (I was at the gig) did I think "this is about the Israel/Palestine conflict". It's war in general. And it's fucking wrong that war still exists.

rr165892

Ed's not anti-Semitic or anti anything other then Republican as far as I can tell.Hell,a lot of people close to Ed are/were Jewish.The Ramones,Cornell,Carrie B,etc,Etc.I think his first wife may have been also.Dude is not a hater.And although I am a believer in a concert in Israel would do a lot to bring peeps together peacefully,now isn't the time and it will be Interesting to see if Neil keeps his show scheduled.

dimitrispearljam

.the ones get offended are the ones are guilty of what eddie said...