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Gods and killing...

AafkeAafke Posts: 1,219
in A Moving Train
Found this post on fb, made me think...
image
Waves_zps6b028461.jpg
"The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed".- Carl Jung.
"Art does not reproduce what we see; rather, it makes us see."- Paul Klee
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Comments

  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    So only religious people kill people? Pretty insightful.

    I'm a person who is strongly religious and even more strongly against killing people....to the point I would not kill a person to defend myself or my country.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • fifefife Posts: 3,327
    know1 said:

    So only religious people kill people? Pretty insightful.

    I'm a person who is strongly religious and even more strongly against killing people....to the point I would not kill a person to defend myself or my country.

    I agree with you. i think the better way to say this is that people who think they are gods kill people.
  • BinFrogBinFrog Posts: 7,309
    know1 said:

    So only religious people kill people? Pretty insightful.

    If that's how you want to interpret it, ok then.

    Don'y worry about those pesky details like how many wars have been started in the name of religion.
    Bright eyed kid: "Wow Typo Man, you're the best!"
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  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    All types of people / animals kill, and for many reasons - god(s) included, but not exclusively.
  • AafkeAafke Posts: 1,219
    edited June 2014
    How I read this one is not that only religious people kill, but many religious people are proud off killing in the name of God. I don't say all religious people are killers or only religious people kill but in don't think it's right when God becomes an excuse for killing!
    Waves_zps6b028461.jpg
    "The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed".- Carl Jung.
    "Art does not reproduce what we see; rather, it makes us see."- Paul Klee
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,138
    I smote thee.
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 Posts: 23,303
    i don't believe in any god, and i have no need or reason or intent to kill anyone.

    more people have been killed in the name of a god than for any other reason.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,047
    I can see how some people would find this offensive and yet to be honest, my first reaction was, yeah, so many wars have been fought and so many have killed "in the name of God". But it's also true that often people with a God or gods do wonderful things. In the long run, it's not the slogan that counts but rather the intent of the heart.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 Posts: 23,303
    i would say body count counts for something.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,138
    I went to Wiki's list of deaths related to wars, armed conflicts, and genocides. I clicked on each conflict to make a determination of what started it and composed an excel total of both the low and high death toll estimates for wars based on religion and wars based on other factors. The totals are as follows:

    Religious Based Wars, Armed Conflicts, and Genocides:

    Low Estimate: 92,100,000
    High Estimate: 219,100,000

    Non-Religious Based Wars, Armed Conflicts, and Genocides:

    Low Estimate: 221,000,000
    High Estimate: 507,000,000

    The two biggest discrepancies were the Taiping Rebelion (Religous) with a low of 20M and a high of 100M, and The Europeon Colonization of the Americas (Non-Religious) with a low of 2M and a high of 100M.

    here is a link to the source material ... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_and_anthropogenic_disasters_by_death_toll
  • callencallen Posts: 6,388
    Leaders use religion the same way they use patriotism/nationalism, to garner support for their own goals and agenda. Religion itself isn’t at fault, it’s just a means for leaders to harness the power of a human weakness, belonging to a tribe and or herd. Just makes it easier as religion is very emotional.

    When the Cheney machine started the drum beat for invading Iraq, I saw clearly how they purposefully targeted this power. The term “Evil Doer” was a calculating, profound and affective term framing the war. It wasn’t about WMD’s It wasn’t 9-11…it was getting the “Evil Doer”. The Good (Christians, Ronald Reagan, Family Values) against those “Evil Doers”(Muslims, barbaric throat slicing executioners). Add the chanting “ USA USA USA” add reference of apple pie, family values and supporting our troops and its intoxicatingly affective.

    Now with this said many people of faith can rise above and see through the farce. WWJD?, not bomb the shit out of innocent civilians but hey many Christians are not very good Christians and are as blood thirsty as the rest of us. Same as Muslims that get drawn in by their leaders…works both ways.

    There are some that post here that have taken the messages instilled upon them and have this utter hatred for Muslims. Not realizing that most Muslim or “Evil Doers” just want the same things as the rest of us….Shelter, Food, Family, Guinness, Sex, Drugs and Rock N Roll. Oh they want Guinness…just their leaders won’t let them have it.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • AafkeAafke Posts: 1,219
    Jason P said:

    I went to Wiki's list of deaths related to wars, armed conflicts, and genocides. I clicked on each conflict to make a determination of what started it and composed an excel total of both the low and high death toll estimates for wars based on religion and wars based on other factors. The totals are as follows:

    Religious Based Wars, Armed Conflicts, and Genocides:

    Low Estimate: 92,100,000
    High Estimate: 219,100,000

    Non-Religious Based Wars, Armed Conflicts, and Genocides:

    Low Estimate: 221,000,000
    High Estimate: 507,000,000

    The two biggest discrepancies were the Taiping Rebelion (Religous) with a low of 20M and a high of 100M, and The Europeon Colonization of the Americas (Non-Religious) with a low of 2M and a high of 100M.

    here is a link to the source material ... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_and_anthropogenic_disasters_by_death_toll

    Yes, there is a huge difference. But are all the non religious wars fought out over the same issues? Or is there a huge verity what caused these wars, because if there is, the wars fought out over religion have a very high common death count. In my opinion any kind of believe system wich allows killing to convince others to believe in the same way, by force, missed the point.
    Waves_zps6b028461.jpg
    "The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed".- Carl Jung.
    "Art does not reproduce what we see; rather, it makes us see."- Paul Klee
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,138
    Aafke said:

    Jason P said:

    I went to Wiki's list of deaths related to wars, armed conflicts, and genocides. I clicked on each conflict to make a determination of what started it and composed an excel total of both the low and high death toll estimates for wars based on religion and wars based on other factors. The totals are as follows:

    Religious Based Wars, Armed Conflicts, and Genocides:

    Low Estimate: 92,100,000
    High Estimate: 219,100,000

    Non-Religious Based Wars, Armed Conflicts, and Genocides:

    Low Estimate: 221,000,000
    High Estimate: 507,000,000

    The two biggest discrepancies were the Taiping Rebelion (Religous) with a low of 20M and a high of 100M, and The Europeon Colonization of the Americas (Non-Religious) with a low of 2M and a high of 100M.

    here is a link to the source material ... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_and_anthropogenic_disasters_by_death_toll

    Yes, there is a huge difference. But are all the non religious wars fought out over the same issues? Or is there a huge verity what caused these wars, because if there is, the wars fought out over religion have a very high common death count. In my opinion any kind of believe system wich allows killing to convince others to believe in the same way, by force, missed the point.
    The majority were tied to empire building. Even one of the biggest religious conflicts, Muslim conquests on the Indian subcontinent (Low: 60M High 80M) was empire expansion.

    Power and control seems to be the overall motivating factor.
  • dignindignin Posts: 9,336
    Jason P said:

    Aafke said:

    Jason P said:

    I went to Wiki's list of deaths related to wars, armed conflicts, and genocides. I clicked on each conflict to make a determination of what started it and composed an excel total of both the low and high death toll estimates for wars based on religion and wars based on other factors. The totals are as follows:

    Religious Based Wars, Armed Conflicts, and Genocides:

    Low Estimate: 92,100,000
    High Estimate: 219,100,000

    Non-Religious Based Wars, Armed Conflicts, and Genocides:

    Low Estimate: 221,000,000
    High Estimate: 507,000,000

    The two biggest discrepancies were the Taiping Rebelion (Religous) with a low of 20M and a high of 100M, and The Europeon Colonization of the Americas (Non-Religious) with a low of 2M and a high of 100M.

    here is a link to the source material ... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_and_anthropogenic_disasters_by_death_toll

    Yes, there is a huge difference. But are all the non religious wars fought out over the same issues? Or is there a huge verity what caused these wars, because if there is, the wars fought out over religion have a very high common death count. In my opinion any kind of believe system wich allows killing to convince others to believe in the same way, by force, missed the point.
    The majority were tied to empire building. Even one of the biggest religious conflicts, Muslim conquests on the Indian subcontinent (Low: 60M High 80M) was empire expansion.

    Power and control seems to be the overall motivating factor.
    You got it. Religion like every other reason for war is used as a tool by the powerful for more power. Us against them. Makes it easier to vilify your enemy. Look at them, they are different than us.
  • callencallen Posts: 6,388
    know1 said:

    I would not kill a person to defend myself

    That's powerful.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    callen said:

    Leaders use religion the same way they use patriotism/nationalism, to garner support for their own goals and agenda. Religion itself isn’t at fault, it’s just a means for leaders to harness the power of a human weakness, belonging to a tribe and or herd. Just makes it easier as religion is very emotional.

    When the Cheney machine started the drum beat for invading Iraq, I saw clearly how they purposefully targeted this power. The term “Evil Doer” was a calculating, profound and affective term framing the war. It wasn’t about WMD’s It wasn’t 9-11…it was getting the “Evil Doer”. The Good (Christians, Ronald Reagan, Family Values) against those “Evil Doers”(Muslims, barbaric throat slicing executioners). Add the chanting “ USA USA USA” add reference of apple pie, family values and supporting our troops and its intoxicatingly affective.

    Now with this said many people of faith can rise above and see through the farce. WWJD?, not bomb the shit out of innocent civilians but hey many Christians are not very good Christians and are as blood thirsty as the rest of us. Same as Muslims that get drawn in by their leaders…works both ways.

    There are some that post here that have taken the messages instilled upon them and have this utter hatred for Muslims. Not realizing that most Muslim or “Evil Doers” just want the same things as the rest of us….Shelter, Food, Family, Guinness, Sex, Drugs and Rock N Roll. Oh they want Guinness…just their leaders won’t let them have it.

    Dude, Callen, this is pretty good. Only thing I disagree as a Muslim, I fucken hate Guinness bro, not because Allah forbids it, but because it tastes like shit to me. :D
  • callencallen Posts: 6,388
    edited June 2014
    Eh so you just have bad taste BadBrains. >:)
    Post edited by callen on
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • even flow - question markeven flow - question mark Posts: 1,568
    Deep!..............Sodom and Gomorah.........the flood.............infidels................is this the kind of gods and killing they meant?

    The poison from the poison stream caught up to you ELEVEN years ago and you floated out of here. Sept. 14, 08

  • Last-12-ExitLast-12-Exit Posts: 8,661
    gimmesometruth27 said:

    i don't believe in any god, and i have no need or reason or intent to kill anyone.

    more people have been killed in the name of a god than for any other reason.

    That was the first line that popped into my head when I read the OP.
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,047
    Besides religion, fighting over resources is a major cause of war and killing. So can we say, "Resources don't kill people, people without adequate resources or people with an overindulgence of resources kill people"... or would that be too hard to read on a button or bumper sticker?
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • AafkeAafke Posts: 1,219
    edited June 2014
    I think almost every war starts about resources and the the power and control they provide, but they (The mighty and powerful) claim it's about religious differences because people tent to get more in to fighting when their believes are at stack. And yes it doesn't seem appealing to read that on a button or bumper sticker.
    Post edited by Aafke on
    Waves_zps6b028461.jpg
    "The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed".- Carl Jung.
    "Art does not reproduce what we see; rather, it makes us see."- Paul Klee
  • SmellymanSmellyman Posts: 4,524
    With or without religion you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. -Steven Weinberg
  • AafkeAafke Posts: 1,219
    In to many wars God becomes the reason for killing for the common soldier. God justifies those killings. Far to often these soldiers become proud of killing in the name of God, this offends me.. For me there is no good reason for killing an other human being and God has been proven to be a perfect excuse for doing so. ..
    Waves_zps6b028461.jpg
    "The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed".- Carl Jung.
    "Art does not reproduce what we see; rather, it makes us see."- Paul Klee
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,138
    I'd say that stands true for current conflicts in the middle east.
  • evsgjammevsgjamm Posts: 2,107

    People with gods (ahem!... and OIL....*cough cough*) kill people
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  • JWPearlJWPearl Posts: 19,893
    evsgjamm said:


    People with gods (ahem!... and OIL....*cough cough*) kill people

    Not like your trying to be racist or anything. lol

  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 38,604
    JWPearl said:



    evsgjamm said:


    People with gods (ahem!... and OIL....*cough cough*) kill people

    Not like your trying to be racist or anything. lol

    People with Gods ( and who want to sell Oil) kill people.
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  • chadwickchadwick Posts: 21,157
    so those who refuse to defend themselves, you are ready to let a foul bastard murder you & your loved ones because you refuse to take a stand because you strongly religious?

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  • JWPearlJWPearl Posts: 19,893
    Better to be the killed than the killer because a killer has no everlasting life left in him but the killed will live on.. but each to their own
  • Thirty Bills UnpaidThirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    JWPearl said:

    Better to be the killed than the killer because a killer has no everlasting life left in him but the killed will live on.. but each to their own

    You're sure about this?

    "My brain's a good brain!"
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