America's Gun Violence

callen

dudeman said:

I can't help but wonder, what is happening in schools these days that makes people want to shoot them up?

Easy Access to efficient killing instruments and add lots and lots of humans.

So guns are here and humans are here so it is what it is.

Guns + Hunans= Death.

Oh how wonderful it must be to live in gun free culture/country.

But fuck that I have my rights and you'll have to pry my gun from my cold dead hand. Yeay!!!!

oftenreading

dudeman said:

I can't help but wonder, what is happening in schools these days that makes people want to shoot them up?

I think it's because schools, particularly high schools, are (and have always been) a morass of nasty cliques and social exclusion. I don't think there's even a way around this, given the time of life/developmental stage of those who are there. Not an easy time for anybody, but it always appears that everyone else is more popular, more attractive, more cool than you are. How many times did you fantasize about getting revenge against those you believed made your life more difficult in high school? I know I did, though not with a gun. These guys just carry that through, and to extremes. The easy availability of guns make it possible.

callen

oftenreading said:

dudeman said:

I can't help but wonder, what is happening in schools these days that makes people want to shoot them up?

I think it's because schools, particularly high schools, are (and have always been) a morass of nasty cliques and social exclusion. I don't think there's even a way around this, given the time of life/developmental stage of those who are there. Not an easy time for anybody, but it always appears that everyone else is more popular, more attractive, more cool than you are. How many times did you fantasize about getting revenge against those you believed made your life more difficult in high school? I know I did, though not with a gun. These guys just carry that through, and to extremes. The easy availability of guns make it possible.

Human nature. Yep.

PJ_Soul

jerparker20 said:

mcgruff10 said:

What do you guys think about having teachers carry? Would that be a deterrent ? An of course before they carry they d need training, backgroud check, mental health check, proper certification, annual tests....

As a teacher in an inner city school the last thing I want to think about is taking a gun into school with my lesson plans for the day.

I've never understood the line of thought of arming teachers. Has anyone ever bothered to asked or polled teachers if they want to carry a sidearm? Have those that pushed this idea ever met, or been around teachers? They're mostly a bunch of softies who despise any shape or form of violence. I've been in education for a while and know a lot of teachers from around the country. I can honestly say that I don't know of one educational professional who supports this idea or who wants to pack heat in the classroom. It's just bullshit dreamt up by the NRA to support their "Die Hard" ideology of everyone longing to be John McClain kicking ass and blasting away the bad guy.

Now I can support police in/outside of schools. But that costs money, so that isn't a feasible answer (at least to some people).

I also think that the idea of arming teachers is abaolutely fucking ridiculous, said as the child of two educators.

tempo_n_groove

PJ_Soul said:

jerparker20 said:

mcgruff10 said:

What do you guys think about having teachers carry? Would that be a deterrent ? An of course before they carry they d need training, backgroud check, mental health check, proper certification, annual tests....

As a teacher in an inner city school the last thing I want to think about is taking a gun into school with my lesson plans for the day.

I've never understood the line of thought of arming teachers. Has anyone ever bothered to asked or polled teachers if they want to carry a sidearm? Have those that pushed this idea ever met, or been around teachers? They're mostly a bunch of softies who despise any shape or form of violence. I've been in education for a while and know a lot of teachers from around the country. I can honestly say that I don't know of one educational professional who supports this idea or who wants to pack heat in the classroom. It's just bullshit dreamt up by the NRA to support their "Die Hard" ideology of everyone longing to be John McClain kicking ass and blasting away the bad guy.

Now I can support police in/outside of schools. But that costs money, so that isn't a feasible answer (at least to some people).

I also think that the idea of arming teachers is abaolutely fucking ridiculous, said as the child of two educators.

I agree with you PJsoul^!

In most states if your weapon gets stolen from you and used in a crime because you did not secure it properly then you are liable. This needs to be enforced in every state.

mcgruff10

PJ_Soul said:

jerparker20 said:

mcgruff10 said:

What do you guys think about having teachers carry? Would that be a deterrent ? An of course before they carry they d need training, backgroud check, mental health check, proper certification, annual tests....

As a teacher in an inner city school the last thing I want to think about is taking a gun into school with my lesson plans for the day.

I've never understood the line of thought of arming teachers. Has anyone ever bothered to asked or polled teachers if they want to carry a sidearm? Have those that pushed this idea ever met, or been around teachers? They're mostly a bunch of softies who despise any shape or form of violence. I've been in education for a while and know a lot of teachers from around the country. I can honestly say that I don't know of one educational professional who supports this idea or who wants to pack heat in the classroom. It's just bullshit dreamt up by the NRA to support their "Die Hard" ideology of everyone longing to be John McClain kicking ass and blasting away the bad guy.

Now I can support police in/outside of schools. But that costs money, so that isn't a feasible answer (at least to some people).

I also think that the idea of arming teachers is abaolutely fucking ridiculous, said as the child of two educators.

of the fellow educators I ve talked to it s amazing how many are for some (the term "some" is very varied as I teach in a school with 80 teachers) teachers being allowed to Legally carry.

dudeman

What's wrong with allowing teachers to make the decision for themselves? The rest of society has the option and many choose not to carry guns. Obviously there is no "one size fits all" solution but I feel that the choice should be left to the individual.

jnimhaoileoin

dudeman said:

What's wrong with allowing teachers to make the decision for themselves? The rest of society has the option and many choose not to carry guns. Obviously there is no "one size fits all" solution but I feel that the choice should be left to the individual.

And what about the rights of the parents and children who might not want a gun in the classroom?

PJfanwillneverleave1

jnimhaoileoin said:

dudeman said:

What's wrong with allowing teachers to make the decision for themselves? The rest of society has the option and many choose not to carry guns. Obviously there is no "one size fits all" solution but I feel that the choice should be left to the individual.

And what about the rights of the parents and children who might not want a gun in the classroom?

It is fucked up that other countries have present this question to the USA.
Guns in schools?
Unreal.

dudeman

jnimhaoileoin said:

dudeman said:

What's wrong with allowing teachers to make the decision for themselves? The rest of society has the option and many choose not to carry guns. Obviously there is no "one size fits all" solution but I feel that the choice should be left to the individual.

And what about the rights of the parents and children who might not want a gun in the classroom?

Apparently, guns are already in the classroom. At least if there is someone present who stands a fighting chance against an armed intruder, there might not be so much mayhem before the first responders arrive.

PJfanwillneverleave1

dudeman said:

jnimhaoileoin said:

dudeman said:

What's wrong with allowing teachers to make the decision for themselves? The rest of society has the option and many choose not to carry guns. Obviously there is no "one size fits all" solution but I feel that the choice should be left to the individual.

And what about the rights of the parents and children who might not want a gun in the classroom?

Apparently, guns are already in the classroom. At least if there is someone present who stands a fighting chance against an armed intruder, there might not be so much mayhem before the first responders arrive.

Like a flight marshall.
I am happy to have one in flight.
I am not happy to have one in a childs classroom.

dudeman

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

dudeman said:

jnimhaoileoin said:

dudeman said:

What's wrong with allowing teachers to make the decision for themselves? The rest of society has the option and many choose not to carry guns. Obviously there is no "one size fits all" solution but I feel that the choice should be left to the individual.

And what about the rights of the parents and children who might not want a gun in the classroom?

Apparently, guns are already in the classroom. At least if there is someone present who stands a fighting chance against an armed intruder, there might not be so much mayhem before the first responders arrive.

Like a flight marshall.
I am happy to have one in flight.
I am not happy to have one in a childs classroom.

Even if it means possibly saving the lives of all of the children in the classroom?

PJfanwillneverleave1

dudeman said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

dudeman said:

jnimhaoileoin said:

dudeman said:

What's wrong with allowing teachers to make the decision for themselves? The rest of society has the option and many choose not to carry guns. Obviously there is no "one size fits all" solution but I feel that the choice should be left to the individual.

And what about the rights of the parents and children who might not want a gun in the classroom?

Apparently, guns are already in the classroom. At least if there is someone present who stands a fighting chance against an armed intruder, there might not be so much mayhem before the first responders arrive.

Like a flight marshall.
I am happy to have one in flight.
I am not happy to have one in a childs classroom.

Even if it means possibly saving the lives of all of the children in the classroom?

Feels like this topic could go in circles all day and night.
I am mixed on this idea but lean to the no.
I would like society to get it right and treat school as a safe space.
Guns and kids not a place to be.

Bentleyspop

dudeman said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

dudeman said:

jnimhaoileoin said:

dudeman said:

What's wrong with allowing teachers to make the decision for themselves? The rest of society has the option and many choose not to carry guns. Obviously there is no "one size fits all" solution but I feel that the choice should be left to the individual.

And what about the rights of the parents and children who might not want a gun in the classroom?

Apparently, guns are already in the classroom. At least if there is someone present who stands a fighting chance against an armed intruder, there might not be so much mayhem before the first responders arrive.

Like a flight marshall.
I am happy to have one in flight.
I am not happy to have one in a childs classroom.

Even if it means possibly saving the lives of all of the children in the classroom?

Having an armed teacher does not mean it will prevent any deaths in the event of a classroom shooting.

In fact if the teacher does not have the training of a soldier or a police officer there is a greater likelihood of collateral damage.

dudeman

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

dudeman said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

dudeman said:

jnimhaoileoin said:

dudeman said:

What's wrong with allowing teachers to make the decision for themselves? The rest of society has the option and many choose not to carry guns. Obviously there is no "one size fits all" solution but I feel that the choice should be left to the individual.

And what about the rights of the parents and children who might not want a gun in the classroom?

Apparently, guns are already in the classroom. At least if there is someone present who stands a fighting chance against an armed intruder, there might not be so much mayhem before the first responders arrive.

Like a flight marshall.
I am happy to have one in flight.
I am not happy to have one in a childs classroom.

Even if it means possibly saving the lives of all of the children in the classroom?

Feels like this topic could go in circles all day and night.
I am mixed on this idea but lean to the no.
I would like society to get it right and treat school as a safe space.
Guns and kids not a place to be.

I would like society to get it right too. I really wish that violence was something that used to happen before we learned the error of our ways and evolved past it. However, we live in the present where people kill each other. Since forcing the evolutionary process to advance us into a period of universal peace isn't likely to happen, I am all for law abiding, capable people standing up to those who wish to do us harm.

dudeman

Bentleyspop said:

dudeman said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

dudeman said:

jnimhaoileoin said:

dudeman said:

What's wrong with allowing teachers to make the decision for themselves? The rest of society has the option and many choose not to carry guns. Obviously there is no "one size fits all" solution but I feel that the choice should be left to the individual.

And what about the rights of the parents and children who might not want a gun in the classroom?

Apparently, guns are already in the classroom. At least if there is someone present who stands a fighting chance against an armed intruder, there might not be so much mayhem before the first responders arrive.

Like a flight marshall.
I am happy to have one in flight.
I am not happy to have one in a childs classroom.

Even if it means possibly saving the lives of all of the children in the classroom?

Having an armed teacher does not mean it will prevent any deaths in the event of a classroom shooting.

In fact if the teacher does not have the training of a soldier or a police officer there is a greater likelihood of collateral damage.

You're right in a sense that there are no absolutes and having armed teachers is not a guarantee of safety. But, it could possibly serve as a deterrent to school shootings in the first place.

Training is not difficult if you're training someone who takes it seriously, knows how to minimize potential risks and realizes that the gun is a last resort, not a first line of defense.

Enkidu

My daughter who just went off to college sent me this. It's funny. But sad, too. I don't know the solution to the gun problem. But I think arming teachers is a terrible idea.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/10/10/ut-gun-carry-protest/

dudeman

I know I'd think twice about attacking a legion of students armed with dildos.

PJfanwillneverleave1

dudeman said:

I know I'd think twice about attacking a legion of students armed with dildos.

Gern Blansten

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/10/dallas-cowboys-fans-urge-gunman-to-shoot-helpless-man-in-the-head-during-tailgating-brawl-and-he-does/

murikkka