America's Gun Violence

Halifax2TheMax

Only in ‘Murica.

http://www.businessinsider.com/santa-fe-texas-school-shooting-man-in-trump-hat-gun-flag-2018-5

Halifax2TheMax

mcgruff10 said:

My vote is yes (interesting article):

Do you think media coverage of massacres emboldens would-be mass shooters?

Tragedy has struck another American high school, this time in Texas, where on Friday a gunman opened fire inside Santa Fe High School, killing nine students and one teacher.

The massacre came a little over three months after 17 people were killed at a high school in Parkland, Florida, making it the worst high school mass shooting in modern U.S. history.

The media coverage that followed the horrific attack seemed endless. From the immediate horror of the massacre, to the identification of the shooter, to the surviving students' push for tighter gun laws, it was as if it was the only news for weeks.

Many believe this kind of coverage, and especially attention on the perpetrators, gives would-be killers a reason to act. Many of the mass shooters become household names.

A 2015 study points to a copycat effect, that a mass shooting increases the likelihood of an additional mass shooting in the two-week period following the incident. And a recent study cautioned that media coverage of these attacks might lead to copycat events over a longer period of time.

An ABC News investigation in 2014 found that in the 14 years after the Columbine High School shooting in Colorado, where 13 died, at 17 school shooters, and 36 other students who threatened rampages that were averted, cited Columbine as partial motivation for the attack.

What’s the source? You think if it’s not reported, swept under the rug, the problem would go away? Add “media coverage” to the list of causes. And some wonder why there can’t be reasoned debate.

Halifax2TheMax

mcgruff10 said:

My vote is yes (interesting article):

Do you think media coverage of massacres emboldens would-be mass shooters?

Tragedy has struck another American high school, this time in Texas, where on Friday a gunman opened fire inside Santa Fe High School, killing nine students and one teacher.

The massacre came a little over three months after 17 people were killed at a high school in Parkland, Florida, making it the worst high school mass shooting in modern U.S. history.

The media coverage that followed the horrific attack seemed endless. From the immediate horror of the massacre, to the identification of the shooter, to the surviving students' push for tighter gun laws, it was as if it was the only news for weeks.

Many believe this kind of coverage, and especially attention on the perpetrators, gives would-be killers a reason to act. Many of the mass shooters become household names.

A 2015 study points to a copycat effect, that a mass shooting increases the likelihood of an additional mass shooting in the two-week period following the incident. And a recent study cautioned that media coverage of these attacks might lead to copycat events over a longer period of time.

An ABC News investigation in 2014 found that in the 14 years after the Columbine High School shooting in Colorado, where 13 died, at 17 school shooters, and 36 other students who threatened rampages that were averted, cited Columbine as partial motivation for the attack.

Quick, no google, name the perps of all the mass casualty attacks since Columbine. Quick, no google.

Halifax2TheMax

And they didn’t cite “media coverage of Columbine.”

mcgruff10

Halifax2TheMax said:

mcgruff10 said:

My vote is yes (interesting article):

Do you think media coverage of massacres emboldens would-be mass shooters?

Tragedy has struck another American high school, this time in Texas, where on Friday a gunman opened fire inside Santa Fe High School, killing nine students and one teacher.

The massacre came a little over three months after 17 people were killed at a high school in Parkland, Florida, making it the worst high school mass shooting in modern U.S. history.

The media coverage that followed the horrific attack seemed endless. From the immediate horror of the massacre, to the identification of the shooter, to the surviving students' push for tighter gun laws, it was as if it was the only news for weeks.

Many believe this kind of coverage, and especially attention on the perpetrators, gives would-be killers a reason to act. Many of the mass shooters become household names.

A 2015 study points to a copycat effect, that a mass shooting increases the likelihood of an additional mass shooting in the two-week period following the incident. And a recent study cautioned that media coverage of these attacks might lead to copycat events over a longer period of time.

An ABC News investigation in 2014 found that in the 14 years after the Columbine High School shooting in Colorado, where 13 died, at 17 school shooters, and 36 other students who threatened rampages that were averted, cited Columbine as partial motivation for the attack.

What’s the source? You think if it’s not reported, swept under the rug, the problem would go away? Add “media coverage” to the list of causes. And some wonder why there can’t be reasoned debate.

I definitely think it is part of the problem, people want their 15 seconds of fame. 

mrussel1

mattsl1983 said:

So wha what’s the solution to prevent today?

Gun lock laws.   If the argument is that owners are law abiding citizens,  then some laws around storage and trigger locks would help keep the guns out of kids, like yesterday.  Couple that with AR bans,  universal background checks,  gun score loopholes, etc, and now we have decreased the opportunity.  There's no one law that would preserve the 2A and prevent shootings,  so you have reduce the epidemic. 

mrussel1

 Gun show loopholes... meant to say. 

mcgruff10

mrussel1 said:

mattsl1983 said:

So wha what’s the solution to prevent today?

Gun lock laws.   If the argument is that owners are law abiding citizens,  then some laws around storage and trigger locks would help keep the guns out of kids, like yesterday.  Couple that with AR bans,  universal background checks,  gun score loopholes, etc, and now we have decreased the opportunity.  There's no one law that would preserve the 2A and prevent shootings,  so you have reduce the epidemic. 

All great ideas.  I m not sure if it is a law but every time I have bought a new unused firearm in New Jersey it has come with a gun lock. 

mrussel1

mcgruff10 said:

mrussel1 said:

mattsl1983 said:

So wha what’s the solution to prevent today?

Gun lock laws.   If the argument is that owners are law abiding citizens,  then some laws around storage and trigger locks would help keep the guns out of kids, like yesterday.  Couple that with AR bans,  universal background checks,  gun score loopholes, etc, and now we have decreased the opportunity.  There's no one law that would preserve the 2A and prevent shootings,  so you have reduce the epidemic. 

All great ideas.  I m not sure if it is a law but every time I have bought a new unused firearm in New Jersey it has come with a gun lock. 

Its probably a law at sale,  but not for you,  the owner.  That's the issue. The problem is  the Nra will fight every one of these.  They filed a law suit in Florida to stop the small steps put in place after parkland. 

mcgruff10

mrussel1 said:

mcgruff10 said:

mrussel1 said:

mattsl1983 said:

So wha what’s the solution to prevent today?

Gun lock laws.   If the argument is that owners are law abiding citizens,  then some laws around storage and trigger locks would help keep the guns out of kids, like yesterday.  Couple that with AR bans,  universal background checks,  gun score loopholes, etc, and now we have decreased the opportunity.  There's no one law that would preserve the 2A and prevent shootings,  so you have reduce the epidemic. 

All great ideas.  I m not sure if it is a law but every time I have bought a new unused firearm in New Jersey it has come with a gun lock. 

Its probably a law at sale,  but not for you,  the owner.  That's the issue. The problem is  the Nra will fight every one of these.  They filed a law suit in Florida to stop the small steps put in place after parkland. 

Fucking dumb. 

rgambs

mcgruff10 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mcgruff10 said:

My vote is yes (interesting article):

Do you think media coverage of massacres emboldens would-be mass shooters?

Tragedy has struck another American high school, this time in Texas, where on Friday a gunman opened fire inside Santa Fe High School, killing nine students and one teacher.

The massacre came a little over three months after 17 people were killed at a high school in Parkland, Florida, making it the worst high school mass shooting in modern U.S. history.

The media coverage that followed the horrific attack seemed endless. From the immediate horror of the massacre, to the identification of the shooter, to the surviving students' push for tighter gun laws, it was as if it was the only news for weeks.

Many believe this kind of coverage, and especially attention on the perpetrators, gives would-be killers a reason to act. Many of the mass shooters become household names.

A 2015 study points to a copycat effect, that a mass shooting increases the likelihood of an additional mass shooting in the two-week period following the incident. And a recent study cautioned that media coverage of these attacks might lead to copycat events over a longer period of time.

An ABC News investigation in 2014 found that in the 14 years after the Columbine High School shooting in Colorado, where 13 died, at 17 school shooters, and 36 other students who threatened rampages that were averted, cited Columbine as partial motivation for the attack.

What’s the source? You think if it’s not reported, swept under the rug, the problem would go away? Add “media coverage” to the list of causes. And some wonder why there can’t be reasoned debate.

I definitely think it is part of the problem, people want their 15 seconds of fame. 

Small part maybe, people just aren't motivated to kill others and themselves for 15 seconds of fame.
Now, once that decision is made, I do believe it's a big factor in choosing the particular act of violence they settle on.

mcgruff10

rgambs said:

mcgruff10 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mcgruff10 said:

My vote is yes (interesting article):

Do you think media coverage of massacres emboldens would-be mass shooters?

Tragedy has struck another American high school, this time in Texas, where on Friday a gunman opened fire inside Santa Fe High School, killing nine students and one teacher.

The massacre came a little over three months after 17 people were killed at a high school in Parkland, Florida, making it the worst high school mass shooting in modern U.S. history.

The media coverage that followed the horrific attack seemed endless. From the immediate horror of the massacre, to the identification of the shooter, to the surviving students' push for tighter gun laws, it was as if it was the only news for weeks.

Many believe this kind of coverage, and especially attention on the perpetrators, gives would-be killers a reason to act. Many of the mass shooters become household names.

A 2015 study points to a copycat effect, that a mass shooting increases the likelihood of an additional mass shooting in the two-week period following the incident. And a recent study cautioned that media coverage of these attacks might lead to copycat events over a longer period of time.

An ABC News investigation in 2014 found that in the 14 years after the Columbine High School shooting in Colorado, where 13 died, at 17 school shooters, and 36 other students who threatened rampages that were averted, cited Columbine as partial motivation for the attack.

What’s the source? You think if it’s not reported, swept under the rug, the problem would go away? Add “media coverage” to the list of causes. And some wonder why there can’t be reasoned debate.

I definitely think it is part of the problem, people want their 15 seconds of fame. 

Small part maybe, people just aren't motivated to kill others and themselves for 15 seconds of fame.
Now, once that decision is made, I do believe it's a big factor in choosing the particular act of violence they settle on.

I find the part about that he wanted his story told to be very interesting (15 seconds of fame?):

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/19/us/texas-school-shooting/index.html

The teen who allegedly used a shotgun and a revolver to kill 10 people at his high school in Texas spared the people he liked during the deadly rampage, a probable cause affidavit says.

Suspect Dimitrios Pagourtzis, 17, has cooperated with police, Galveston County Magistrate Mark Henry said. Pagourtzis told an investigator he acted alone and spared people he liked because he wanted his story told, the probable cause affidavit says.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

This f**king tool had 'a pressure cooker with an alarm clock, and some nails but no explosive device'. He thought if he put an alarm clock in a pressure cooker with a bunch of nails an explosion would occur. F**king idiot.

He also said he had suicidal thoughts. It's too bad he didn't kill himself before deciding to commit mass murder. He said he didn't have the courage to kill himself after the slaughter. Neither will the state.

F**king idiot.

mcgruff10

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

This f**king tool had 'a pressure cooker with an alarm clock, and some nails but no explosive device'. He thought if he put an alarm clock in a pressure cooker with a bunch of nails an explosion would occur. F**king idiot.

He also said he had suicidal thoughts. It's too bad he didn't kill himself before deciding to commit mass murder. He said he didn't have the courage to kill himself after the slaughter. Neither will the state.

F**king idiot.

Definite idiot. I just read that a fellow high school student said the shooter was bullied by teachers and students. 

pjhawks

Bill Maher had a stat last night that said more high school students have been shot and killed in schools this year than military personnel killed in Iraq and Afghanitstan in the same time period. fuck the NRA and the 2nd amendment

tbergs

pjhawks said:

Bill Maher had a stat last night that said more high school students have been shot and killed in schools this year than military personnel killed in Iraq and Afghanitstan in the same time period. fuck the NRA and the 2nd amendment

I read that yesterday too. Here's the article from WaPo.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/05/18/2018-has-been-deadlier-for-schoolchildren-than-service-members/

mcgruff10

Just so we get a clear picture of the whole article (same article as above):

After this story was originally published, Jared Keller, a senior editor at the site Task & Purpose, noted that the Department of Defense releases offered an incomplete picture of service member fatalities. Separate data compiled by the Navy, including the Marines, adds another seven casualties to the total, excluding motor vehicle accidents. In May, an Air National Guard plane crashed in Georgia killing another nine — an incident not included in the Department of Defense’s reports.
The figures for 2018 do not suggest schools are more dangerous than combat zones. After all, there are more than 50 million students in public elementary and high schools and only about 1.3 million members of the armed forces. So far in 2018, a member of the military has been about 40 times as likely to be killed as someone is to die in a school shooting, including Keller’s revised figures.

mrussel1

Well the mental health angle isn't sticking, so it's time for a new nemesis.... TOO MANY DOORS!  

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/19/us/texas-school-shooting-exits-trnd/index.html

mace1229

rgambs said:

mace1229 said:

benjs said:

mace1229 said:

mcgruff10 said:

mrussel1 said:

PJPOWER said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

PJPOWER said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

PJPOWER said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

PJPOWER said:

josevolution said:

PJPOWER said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Legitimate question: What has Texas done regarding anything to prevent what happened today between the church shooting that killed 26 and today? Other than thoughts and prayers?

What would you suggest be done that would have prevented this one?  He used a .38 Revolver and a Shotgun...?

What would you suggest be done about this ? 

Idk, what would you suggest?

Really? You don’t know?

Nope, do you?  What would have stopped this most recent event where a revolver and shotgun were used by a 17 year old?
Assault weapons ban-nope
minimim age requirements-nope
background checks-nope
waiting periods-nope

Locked up? Yup.
Stored elsewhere? Yup.

Care to elaborate?  How would your fairy tale laws read?

Maybe you can? But I kind of doubt it because all you got is nothing.
 

That’s right, nothing.

I don't understand your point.  I offered three suggestions that would have helped prevent this tragedy.  He touches on them as well.  I'll try again:
1. Law around gun cabinets
2. Trigger locks
3. Fingerprint sensors to enable the trigger mechanism.  The technology absolutely exists.  

Do you believe that if 1. Any of these laws existed and were required and 2. the law abiding father followed the law, that this tragedy could not have been averted?

I have zero faith in number three. Technology fails at times, no way I would ever buy a gun like that. 
The first two are great. 

I agree.
Except I’m not worried about technology failing, #3 just doesn’t interest me. And is not needed if you have the first 2.

It might have interested twenty people in a high school in Texas, even though it didn’t interest you.

That one didn’t interest me because it isn’t practical. You can’t implement that technology onto existing guns (well, you can, but they wouldn’t mandate it). I’ve never met a gun owner who is in favor of it, it isn’t practical for practice or training with others. And mostly, wouldn’t make a difference if the were properly locked to begin with.

This is an attitude that makes people want to punch people like you lol
Seriously though, when gun nutters start their hobby talk it's fucking disgusting. 
When practicality for "training" and getting your heehaws with your buddies is a higher priority than highschool kids' lives...
FUCK YOUR FUCKING HOBBY!!!

Your last statement is just ignorant.  You know better, you absolutely know that statement is ignorant, but damnit, your range time might be less convenient so you'd better persist!

And it’s because of responses like this, calling my someone who goes shooting maybe once a year a gun nutter, and calling me disgusting and wanting to punch me in the face when I say I agree with laws to hold parents responsible, and agree with laws to require proper storage of guns, but don’t see fingerprint technology as practical or ass efficient. That’s exactly why there’s some out there who believe the anti gun crowd is unwilling to compromise. Based on your respones you’d think I said give every kid a gun or something. You won;t admit it, but it is statements like this that fuel that fear of "they won't stop until my guns are gone." I personally don't believe that, but when these responses are what we've come to expect, no wonder so many people think that.
I agreed with 2 out of the 3 suggested measures and this is the response that it gets. But gun people are the ones unwilling to work on a solution?
Sorry to tell you, but that fingerprint technology will never fly in my lifetime. For many reasons. Too many guns already out there without it. I imagine it would be easy to disable it, and yes, avid gun hobbyists wouldn't want it. Why not focus on things that can and would make a difference? Like the other 2 ideas I said were great. Instead of attacking someone who is for most measures for disagree on the one thing that was mentioned. 
Responses like that only make the pro-gun side not want to discuss and compromise. But I'm the disgusting one for wanting realistic changes. Okay. 
 

mrussel1

^^ In my original post with those three options (the one that @PJPOWER has not refuted, even though he said there were no options...), I said it would only be for new manufacturing.  Of course it's not practical for existing guns.  We didn't retrofit cars with rack and pinion steering with power steering once that was developed.  But I disagree with the practicality argument for new manufacturing.  We have tech in every other part of our life, why would this product be the only one where that can't be adopted effectively?  
 The bigger issue is that the NRA has not shown itself willing to support any measure of control since the 70's, when it was overtaken by radicals.  However, ironically, I believe that the fingerprint technology is one they would secretly back because it would drive demand.  We all know it's the profit motive of the manufacturers that's behind everything.