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America's Gun Violence

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  • BentleyspopBentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, ColoradoPosts: 8,705
    And well, domestic abusers should have access to firearms, right? Its the "responsible" thing to do because someone who hits their partner, certainly wouldn't shoot them, right? From NYT:

    • The House voted to renew the Violence Against Women Act. Senate Republicans object to new provisions that would make it harder for domestic abusers to buy guns.
    I would agree with this taken into context just the way it is.  There must be more red tape attached to it though?

    Once something gets written into law it is really hard to undo it and I'm pretty sure that is what the big picture is about.  Shitty answer and not what you want to hear, I will look further into it.
    I want less red tape as much as the next guy.
    However, when it comes to buying guns there has to be a way to curtail the impulse buying. The depressed or the pissed off or need to rob a bank type of people need to have brakes put on their ability to walk into a store and walk out with a gun.
    Or go to a gun show or any other legit means of purchasing a firearm.
  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 5,504


  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 26,558
    And well, domestic abusers should have access to firearms, right? Its the "responsible" thing to do because someone who hits their partner, certainly wouldn't shoot them, right? From NYT:

    • The House voted to renew the Violence Against Women Act. Senate Republicans object to new provisions that would make it harder for domestic abusers to buy guns.
    I would agree with this taken into context just the way it is.  There must be more red tape attached to it though?

    Once something gets written into law it is really hard to undo it and I'm pretty sure that is what the big picture is about.  Shitty answer and not what you want to hear, I will look further into it.
    I want less red tape as much as the next guy.
    However, when it comes to buying guns there has to be a way to curtail the impulse buying. The depressed or the pissed off or need to rob a bank type of people need to have brakes put on their ability to walk into a store and walk out with a gun.
    Or go to a gun show or any other legit means of purchasing a firearm.
    Impulse buying.  I am going to ask how many crimes are committed from Impulse buying?  As for a waiting period I don't have a problem but I would like to keep person to person sales legal.
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon HeadstoniaPosts: 25,938
    And well, domestic abusers should have access to firearms, right? Its the "responsible" thing to do because someone who hits their partner, certainly wouldn't shoot them, right? From NYT:

    • The House voted to renew the Violence Against Women Act. Senate Republicans object to new provisions that would make it harder for domestic abusers to buy guns.
    I would agree with this taken into context just the way it is.  There must be more red tape attached to it though?

    Once something gets written into law it is really hard to undo it and I'm pretty sure that is what the big picture is about.  Shitty answer and not what you want to hear, I will look further into it.
    I want less red tape as much as the next guy.
    However, when it comes to buying guns there has to be a way to curtail the impulse buying. The depressed or the pissed off or need to rob a bank type of people need to have brakes put on their ability to walk into a store and walk out with a gun.
    Or go to a gun show or any other legit means of purchasing a firearm.
    Impulse buying.  I am going to ask how many crimes are committed from Impulse buying?  As for a waiting period I don't have a problem but I would like to keep person to person sales legal.
    i would tend to agree. Most of these, I'd argue, are planned over the course of several days to weeks to months, depending on the incident. I don't know if I've heard of any of these mass shooting sprees that started with a guy walking into a gun shop and the same day the spree happens. 
    (Track 10 of The Headstones' Nickels For Your Nightmares)


  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 20,884
    And well, domestic abusers should have access to firearms, right? Its the "responsible" thing to do because someone who hits their partner, certainly wouldn't shoot them, right? From NYT:

    • The House voted to renew the Violence Against Women Act. Senate Republicans object to new provisions that would make it harder for domestic abusers to buy guns.
    I would agree with this taken into context just the way it is.  There must be more red tape attached to it though?

    Once something gets written into law it is really hard to undo it and I'm pretty sure that is what the big picture is about.  Shitty answer and not what you want to hear, I will look further into it.
    I want less red tape as much as the next guy.
    However, when it comes to buying guns there has to be a way to curtail the impulse buying. The depressed or the pissed off or need to rob a bank type of people need to have brakes put on their ability to walk into a store and walk out with a gun.
    Or go to a gun show or any other legit means of purchasing a firearm.
    Impulse buying.  I am going to ask how many crimes are committed from Impulse buying?  As for a waiting period I don't have a problem but I would like to keep person to person sales legal.

    sure, with backround check and a record of the sale filed....
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  • BentleyspopBentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, ColoradoPosts: 8,705
    And well, domestic abusers should have access to firearms, right? Its the "responsible" thing to do because someone who hits their partner, certainly wouldn't shoot them, right? From NYT:

    • The House voted to renew the Violence Against Women Act. Senate Republicans object to new provisions that would make it harder for domestic abusers to buy guns.
    I would agree with this taken into context just the way it is.  There must be more red tape attached to it though?

    Once something gets written into law it is really hard to undo it and I'm pretty sure that is what the big picture is about.  Shitty answer and not what you want to hear, I will look further into it.
    I want less red tape as much as the next guy.
    However, when it comes to buying guns there has to be a way to curtail the impulse buying. The depressed or the pissed off or need to rob a bank type of people need to have brakes put on their ability to walk into a store and walk out with a gun.
    Or go to a gun show or any other legit means of purchasing a firearm.
    Impulse buying.  I am going to ask how many crimes are committed from Impulse buying?  As for a waiting period I don't have a problem but I would like to keep person to person sales legal.
    i would tend to agree. Most of these, I'd argue, are planned over the course of several days to weeks to months, depending on the incident. I don't know if I've heard of any of these mass shooting sprees that started with a guy walking into a gun shop and the same day the spree happens. 
    This is true. But Im not referring to the spree, serial, or mass murderer.
    What about the super depressed person looking to end their own life? Maybe while there is a background check going on they rethink their decision.
    Or the person pissed off at their boss or neighbor or wife/husband? Maybe the background check time. is a cool off time.
    Or maybe the person just shouldn't be owning a gun and the background check alerts authorities.
    A lot of guns end up in the wrong hands. I would like to think that well done background checks would alleviate some of that.

  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon HeadstoniaPosts: 25,938
    And well, domestic abusers should have access to firearms, right? Its the "responsible" thing to do because someone who hits their partner, certainly wouldn't shoot them, right? From NYT:

    • The House voted to renew the Violence Against Women Act. Senate Republicans object to new provisions that would make it harder for domestic abusers to buy guns.
    I would agree with this taken into context just the way it is.  There must be more red tape attached to it though?

    Once something gets written into law it is really hard to undo it and I'm pretty sure that is what the big picture is about.  Shitty answer and not what you want to hear, I will look further into it.
    I want less red tape as much as the next guy.
    However, when it comes to buying guns there has to be a way to curtail the impulse buying. The depressed or the pissed off or need to rob a bank type of people need to have brakes put on their ability to walk into a store and walk out with a gun.
    Or go to a gun show or any other legit means of purchasing a firearm.
    Impulse buying.  I am going to ask how many crimes are committed from Impulse buying?  As for a waiting period I don't have a problem but I would like to keep person to person sales legal.
    i would tend to agree. Most of these, I'd argue, are planned over the course of several days to weeks to months, depending on the incident. I don't know if I've heard of any of these mass shooting sprees that started with a guy walking into a gun shop and the same day the spree happens. 
    This is true. But Im not referring to the spree, serial, or mass murderer.
    What about the super depressed person looking to end their own life? Maybe while there is a background check going on they rethink their decision.
    Or the person pissed off at their boss or neighbor or wife/husband? Maybe the background check time. is a cool off time.
    Or maybe the person just shouldn't be owning a gun and the background check alerts authorities.
    A lot of guns end up in the wrong hands. I would like to think that well done background checks would alleviate some of that.

    yes, I support back ground checks 100%. I just don't know how much impulse buying goes in these scenarios. sounds like something out of a movie.  do people rob banks on impulse? Or just on horseback? do people rob banks anymore?
    (Track 10 of The Headstones' Nickels For Your Nightmares)


  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 27,623
    Well, we now know of at least one, one too many, sadly. Atlanta shooter bought the gun the day of. ‘Murica.
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  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon HeadstoniaPosts: 25,938
    Well, we now know of at least one, one too many, sadly. Atlanta shooter bought the gun the day of. ‘Murica.
    did he really? wow. ok, consider myself corrected. 
    (Track 10 of The Headstones' Nickels For Your Nightmares)


  • BentleyspopBentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, ColoradoPosts: 8,705
    Well, we now know of at least one, one too many, sadly. Atlanta shooter bought the gun the day of. ‘Murica.
    did he really? wow. ok, consider myself corrected. 

  • nicknyr15nicknyr15 Posts: 4,339
    Well, we now know of at least one, one too many, sadly. Atlanta shooter bought the gun the day of. ‘Murica.
    This is absolutely embarrassing and unacceptable 
  • JeBurkhardtJeBurkhardt Posts: 763
    In Illinois we have a Firearm Owners Identification Card. To purchase firearms or ammo, transport or have firearms in your house you have to possess a valid FOID card. It is issued by the State police after they do back ground checks, and is based on a lot of qualifying conditions as well. Violate any of the conditions and your FOID card will be revoked. Combine that with a 24 hour wait for long guns and a 72 hour wait for handguns, and it is a good start. I don't see why this couldn't be done on a National basis. 
  • dudemandudeman Posts: 2,514
    In Illinois we have a Firearm Owners Identification Card. To purchase firearms or ammo, transport or have firearms in your house you have to possess a valid FOID card. It is issued by the State police after they do back ground checks, and is based on a lot of qualifying conditions as well. Violate any of the conditions and your FOID card will be revoked. Combine that with a 24 hour wait for long guns and a 72 hour wait for handguns, and it is a good start. I don't see why this couldn't be done on a National basis. 
    Chicago is in Illinois, right? Doesn't Chicago consistently have the highest rate of gun violence in the country?
    If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 5,504
    dudeman said:
    In Illinois we have a Firearm Owners Identification Card. To purchase firearms or ammo, transport or have firearms in your house you have to possess a valid FOID card. It is issued by the State police after they do back ground checks, and is based on a lot of qualifying conditions as well. Violate any of the conditions and your FOID card will be revoked. Combine that with a 24 hour wait for long guns and a 72 hour wait for handguns, and it is a good start. I don't see why this couldn't be done on a National basis. 
    Chicago is in Illinois, right? Doesn't Chicago consistently have the highest rate of gun violence in the country?


    https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/national-international/chicago-gun-trace-report-2017/27140/

    According to this report, over 60% come from out of state, and 20% from Indiana, less than 90 minutes away. 

  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 24,955
    In Illinois we have a Firearm Owners Identification Card. To purchase firearms or ammo, transport or have firearms in your house you have to possess a valid FOID card. It is issued by the State police after they do back ground checks, and is based on a lot of qualifying conditions as well. Violate any of the conditions and your FOID card will be revoked. Combine that with a 24 hour wait for long guns and a 72 hour wait for handguns, and it is a good start. I don't see why this couldn't be done on a National basis. 
    We have very similar laws in New Jersey and I think they work pretty good.  
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • JeBurkhardtJeBurkhardt Posts: 763
    dudeman said:
    In Illinois we have a Firearm Owners Identification Card. To purchase firearms or ammo, transport or have firearms in your house you have to possess a valid FOID card. It is issued by the State police after they do back ground checks, and is based on a lot of qualifying conditions as well. Violate any of the conditions and your FOID card will be revoked. Combine that with a 24 hour wait for long guns and a 72 hour wait for handguns, and it is a good start. I don't see why this couldn't be done on a National basis. 
    Chicago is in Illinois, right? Doesn't Chicago consistently have the highest rate of gun violence in the country?
    If you get to checking, you will find that the majority of those shootings involve illegally bought or carried guns. Usually from Indiana or a surrounding State that has lax at best gun laws. Some I am sure are also stolen from households that don't keep them securely locked up. Our system obviously isn't perfect, but it beats the OK Corral mentality that exists in other States.  
  • dudemandudeman Posts: 2,514
    dudeman said:
    In Illinois we have a Firearm Owners Identification Card. To purchase firearms or ammo, transport or have firearms in your house you have to possess a valid FOID card. It is issued by the State police after they do back ground checks, and is based on a lot of qualifying conditions as well. Violate any of the conditions and your FOID card will be revoked. Combine that with a 24 hour wait for long guns and a 72 hour wait for handguns, and it is a good start. I don't see why this couldn't be done on a National basis. 
    Chicago is in Illinois, right? Doesn't Chicago consistently have the highest rate of gun violence in the country?


    https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/national-international/chicago-gun-trace-report-2017/27140/

    According to this report, over 60% come from out of state, and 20% from Indiana, less than 90 minutes away. 
    Right. That's where they come from but those people who live in Illinois and are buying these guns don't give two shits about their FOID card.

    Bottom line is they can pass all the laws in the world but without compliance and enforcement of those laws, this shit is going to continue. 
    If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 5,504
    dudeman said:
    dudeman said:
    In Illinois we have a Firearm Owners Identification Card. To purchase firearms or ammo, transport or have firearms in your house you have to possess a valid FOID card. It is issued by the State police after they do back ground checks, and is based on a lot of qualifying conditions as well. Violate any of the conditions and your FOID card will be revoked. Combine that with a 24 hour wait for long guns and a 72 hour wait for handguns, and it is a good start. I don't see why this couldn't be done on a National basis. 
    Chicago is in Illinois, right? Doesn't Chicago consistently have the highest rate of gun violence in the country?


    https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/national-international/chicago-gun-trace-report-2017/27140/

    According to this report, over 60% come from out of state, and 20% from Indiana, less than 90 minutes away. 
    Right. That's where they come from but those people who live in Illinois and are buying these guns don't give two shits about their FOID card.

    Bottom line is they can pass all the laws in the world but without compliance and enforcement of those laws, this shit is going to continue. 

    'People will only break the law' is a great argument against having laws. 


    MA has some of the strongest gun laws in the books and one of the lowest rate of death by firearm, so yeah, laws work. 

  • JeBurkhardtJeBurkhardt Posts: 763
    dudeman said:
    dudeman said:
    In Illinois we have a Firearm Owners Identification Card. To purchase firearms or ammo, transport or have firearms in your house you have to possess a valid FOID card. It is issued by the State police after they do back ground checks, and is based on a lot of qualifying conditions as well. Violate any of the conditions and your FOID card will be revoked. Combine that with a 24 hour wait for long guns and a 72 hour wait for handguns, and it is a good start. I don't see why this couldn't be done on a National basis. 
    Chicago is in Illinois, right? Doesn't Chicago consistently have the highest rate of gun violence in the country?


    https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/national-international/chicago-gun-trace-report-2017/27140/

    According to this report, over 60% come from out of state, and 20% from Indiana, less than 90 minutes away. 
    Right. That's where they come from but those people who live in Illinois and are buying these guns don't give two shits about their FOID card.

    Bottom line is they can pass all the laws in the world but without compliance and enforcement of those laws, this shit is going to continue. 
    Criminals not following the law? Huh, who would have guessed? The point of the laws is that if and when they get caught illegally possessing them there are consequences. Some people are going to do things regardless, but that doesn’t mean you just throw up your hands and say the hell with it. 
  • dudemandudeman Posts: 2,514
    dudeman said:
    dudeman said:
    In Illinois we have a Firearm Owners Identification Card. To purchase firearms or ammo, transport or have firearms in your house you have to possess a valid FOID card. It is issued by the State police after they do back ground checks, and is based on a lot of qualifying conditions as well. Violate any of the conditions and your FOID card will be revoked. Combine that with a 24 hour wait for long guns and a 72 hour wait for handguns, and it is a good start. I don't see why this couldn't be done on a National basis. 
    Chicago is in Illinois, right? Doesn't Chicago consistently have the highest rate of gun violence in the country?


    https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/national-international/chicago-gun-trace-report-2017/27140/

    According to this report, over 60% come from out of state, and 20% from Indiana, less than 90 minutes away. 
    Right. That's where they come from but those people who live in Illinois and are buying these guns don't give two shits about their FOID card.

    Bottom line is they can pass all the laws in the world but without compliance and enforcement of those laws, this shit is going to continue. 

    'People will only break the law' is a great argument against having laws. 


    MA has some of the strongest gun laws in the books and one of the lowest rate of death by firearm, so yeah, laws work. 
    That's the difference right there. MA actually enforces laws and prosecutes people for weapons violations. 

    Do you have any idea how many people are denied purchasing a firearm because they fail the background check? Tens of thousands. Do you know how many of those cases actually result in law enforcement looking into why they were trying to buy a gun? Less than 80 the last I checked.
    If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 11,587
    And well, domestic abusers should have access to firearms, right? Its the "responsible" thing to do because someone who hits their partner, certainly wouldn't shoot them, right? From NYT:

    • The House voted to renew the Violence Against Women Act. Senate Republicans object to new provisions that would make it harder for domestic abusers to buy guns.
    I would agree with this taken into context just the way it is.  There must be more red tape attached to it though?

    Once something gets written into law it is really hard to undo it and I'm pretty sure that is what the big picture is about.  Shitty answer and not what you want to hear, I will look further into it.
    I want less red tape as much as the next guy.
    However, when it comes to buying guns there has to be a way to curtail the impulse buying. The depressed or the pissed off or need to rob a bank type of people need to have brakes put on their ability to walk into a store and walk out with a gun.
    Or go to a gun show or any other legit means of purchasing a firearm.
    Impulse buying.  I am going to ask how many crimes are committed from Impulse buying?  As for a waiting period I don't have a problem but I would like to keep person to person sales legal.
    i would tend to agree. Most of these, I'd argue, are planned over the course of several days to weeks to months, depending on the incident. I don't know if I've heard of any of these mass shooting sprees that started with a guy walking into a gun shop and the same day the spree happens. 
    You mean like the Asian shooter?
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  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 5,504
    dudeman said:
    dudeman said:
    dudeman said:
    In Illinois we have a Firearm Owners Identification Card. To purchase firearms or ammo, transport or have firearms in your house you have to possess a valid FOID card. It is issued by the State police after they do back ground checks, and is based on a lot of qualifying conditions as well. Violate any of the conditions and your FOID card will be revoked. Combine that with a 24 hour wait for long guns and a 72 hour wait for handguns, and it is a good start. I don't see why this couldn't be done on a National basis. 
    Chicago is in Illinois, right? Doesn't Chicago consistently have the highest rate of gun violence in the country?


    https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/national-international/chicago-gun-trace-report-2017/27140/

    According to this report, over 60% come from out of state, and 20% from Indiana, less than 90 minutes away. 
    Right. That's where they come from but those people who live in Illinois and are buying these guns don't give two shits about their FOID card.

    Bottom line is they can pass all the laws in the world but without compliance and enforcement of those laws, this shit is going to continue. 

    'People will only break the law' is a great argument against having laws. 


    MA has some of the strongest gun laws in the books and one of the lowest rate of death by firearm, so yeah, laws work. 
    That's the difference right there. MA actually enforces laws and prosecutes people for weapons violations. 

    Do you have any idea how many people are denied purchasing a firearm because they fail the background check? Tens of thousands. Do you know how many of those cases actually result in law enforcement looking into why they were trying to buy a gun? Less than 80 the last I checked.
    Oh, for sure; we need to reform law enforcement in America as well as our gun laws, I'm with you there. 

  • JeBurkhardtJeBurkhardt Posts: 763
    I don’t think the issue in Chicago necessarily is non compliance with existing Illinois laws. Much of the gun violence up there ( I live downstate) isn’t from people who tried to buy them legally and were turned down. They were brought illegally into the State and sold to criminals and gang affiliated people who are using them. I am not naive, the stronger laws in this State will never stop the criminals from getting firearms, but it does make it more difficult and increases the consequences of having them. 
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 18,652
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
  • BentleyspopBentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, ColoradoPosts: 8,705
    Uh oh
    That was my neighborhood supermarket when I lived in Boulder.
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 18,652
    Uh oh
    That was my neighborhood supermarket when I lived in Boulder.
    so sad. witnesses are tweeting that middle aged white fat guy was arrested and is in custody. reports are up to six shot/dead.

    again these are witnesses on twitter so may not be 100% accurate.
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 18,652
    does anybody know if this is boebert's district?
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 18,652
    reports of police officer dead and bomb squad on the scene.

    fuck.
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
  • BentleyspopBentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, ColoradoPosts: 8,705
    does anybody know if this is boebert's district?
    Nope
    She's from Rifle ( not kidding look it up)
    Which is west of Glenwood Springs.
    Great place to climb but not live
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 18,652
    does anybody know if this is boebert's district?
    Nope
    She's from Rifle ( not kidding look it up)
    Which is west of Glenwood Springs.
    Great place to climb but not live
    well at least it isn't her district. if it were she might have to come out and give a statement that she may not want to make.
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
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