America's Gun Violence

dudeman

gimmesometruth27 said:

dudeman said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

it seems pretty obvious to me the reason that most shootings occur in gun free zones isn't because they are gun free zones, it's because those are the places that the perp has some problem with and/or can inflict maximum damage in minimum time.

Obviously they want to attack large crowds. Gun shows and NRA conventions attract large crowds. Why don't mass shootings happen there?

because gun shows do not normally allow live ammo inside the actual show.

Have you ever been to a gun show? There is live ammo everywhere.

I've never been to an NRA event, but every gun show I've been to has people carrying guns and ammo all over the place.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

If Pearl Jam was smart, the 10C would sell guns.

Imagine the email coming out on the 10th announcing 9mm Smith & Wesson handguns. Limited edition of course.

Forget backpacks, mugs, stickers, and t-shirts... it's time to knock it out of the park.

Of course, Canadians wouldn't be able to buy them so I'd be really bummed. Well... not really actually.

hedonist

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

If Pearl Jam was smart, the 10C would sell guns.

Imagine the email coming out on the 10th announcing 9mm Smith & Wesson handguns. Limited edition of course.

Forget backpacks, mugs, stickers, and t-shirts... it's time to knock it out of the park.

Of course, Canadians wouldn't be able to buy them so I'd be really bummed. Well... not really actually.

Hahaha...the "Glorified" series - and you'd have to buy two.

HughFreakingDillon

dudeman said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

it seems pretty obvious to me the reason that most shootings occur in gun free zones isn't because they are gun free zones, it's because those are the places that the perp has some problem with and/or can inflict maximum damage in minimum time.

Obviously they want to attack large crowds. Gun shows and NRA conventions attract large crowds. Why don't mass shootings happen there?

reread my last statement. that's why.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

hedonist said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

If Pearl Jam was smart, the 10C would sell guns.

Imagine the email coming out on the 10th announcing 9mm Smith & Wesson handguns. Limited edition of course.

Forget backpacks, mugs, stickers, and t-shirts... it's time to knock it out of the park.

Of course, Canadians wouldn't be able to buy them so I'd be really bummed. Well... not really actually.

Hahaha...the "Glorified" series - and you'd have to buy two.

Now we're getting somewhere.

HughFreakingDillon

hedonist said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

If Pearl Jam was smart, the 10C would sell guns.

Imagine the email coming out on the 10th announcing 9mm Smith & Wesson handguns. Limited edition of course.

Forget backpacks, mugs, stickers, and t-shirts... it's time to knock it out of the park.

Of course, Canadians wouldn't be able to buy them so I'd be really bummed. Well... not really actually.

Hahaha...the "Glorified" series - and you'd have to buy two.

AWESOME!

"two per member only" LOL

dankind

Must love God.

callen

dudeman said:

By properly trained and qualified law abiding citizens....sure. I don't think it's coincidence that 92% of mass shootings occur in gun free zones.

I think lawful concealed carry should be allowed and if an institution wants to remain a gun free zone, they should ensure the safety of the people by employing armed personnel and conducting searches TSA-style.

Obviously, something needs to change.

These events are targeting schools that happen to be gun free zones. Flawed logic.

This line of thinking should seem preposterous but understand how great it sounds.

callen

dudeman said:

PJ_Soul said:

dudeman said:

By properly trained and qualified law abiding citizens....sure. I don't think it's coincidence that 92% of mass shootings occur in gun free zones.

I think lawful concealed carry should be allowed and if an institution wants to remain a gun free zone, they should ensure the safety of the people by employing armed personnel and conducting searches TSA-style.

Obviously, something needs to change.

Obviously. But I don't see why adding guns has to be the change. I would suggest that the changes need to be about stopping the trend of mass shootings - figuring out why this is an American problem - and that would have absolutely nothing to do with adding guns to the equation.

The changes that are needed are social and cultural. Additional legislation is not going to miraculously end the struggle here. People have to stop wanting to kill each other. Since murder is clearly illegal and it still happens, what makes you think more laws are the answer?

So laws against murder don't work. Get that. So just say fk it and have everyone carry? Look at other western countries. There is a better way.

callen

dudeman said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

it seems pretty obvious to me the reason that most shootings occur in gun free zones isn't because they are gun free zones, it's because those are the places that the perp has some problem with and/or can inflict maximum damage in minimum time.

Obviously they want to attack large crowds. Gun shows and NRA conventions attract large crowds. Why don't mass shootings happen there?

My biggest threat from being shot is venturing into the city, going to establishment and have someone attempt to rob the joint. It's the Rambo amateur fk with the gun "doing something about it" that's my fear.

gimmesometruth27

dudeman said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

dudeman said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

it seems pretty obvious to me the reason that most shootings occur in gun free zones isn't because they are gun free zones, it's because those are the places that the perp has some problem with and/or can inflict maximum damage in minimum time.

Obviously they want to attack large crowds. Gun shows and NRA conventions attract large crowds. Why don't mass shootings happen there?

because gun shows do not normally allow live ammo inside the actual show.

Have you ever been to a gun show? There is live ammo everywhere.

I've never been to an NRA event, but every gun show I've been to has people carrying guns and ammo all over the place.

i haven't been to a gun show since i was a kid.

i thought that once that 8 year old shot and killed the uzi salesman at that gun show, that was it for the live ammo.

dudeman

callen said:

dudeman said:

PJ_Soul said:

dudeman said:

By properly trained and qualified law abiding citizens....sure. I don't think it's coincidence that 92% of mass shootings occur in gun free zones.

I think lawful concealed carry should be allowed and if an institution wants to remain a gun free zone, they should ensure the safety of the people by employing armed personnel and conducting searches TSA-style.

Obviously, something needs to change.

Obviously. But I don't see why adding guns has to be the change. I would suggest that the changes need to be about stopping the trend of mass shootings - figuring out why this is an American problem - and that would have absolutely nothing to do with adding guns to the equation.

The changes that are needed are social and cultural. Additional legislation is not going to miraculously end the struggle here. People have to stop wanting to kill each other. Since murder is clearly illegal and it still happens, what makes you think more laws are the answer?

So laws against murder don't work. Get that. So just say fk it and have everyone carry? Look at other western countries. There is a better way.

No, not everyone. There are many people out there that shouldn't even be allowed to look at pictures of guns. I'm talking about law abiding, concealed carry permit holders that have had training. Have you seen statistics that CCW holders are prone to violence? Me either.

mickeyrat

hear about the CCW holder shooting at a shop lifter at a home depot in auburn hills michigan?

http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/oakland/2015/10/06/cpl-holder-opens-fire-shoplifter-home-depot/73468588/

dudeman

callen said:

dudeman said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

it seems pretty obvious to me the reason that most shootings occur in gun free zones isn't because they are gun free zones, it's because those are the places that the perp has some problem with and/or can inflict maximum damage in minimum time.

Obviously they want to attack large crowds. Gun shows and NRA conventions attract large crowds. Why don't mass shootings happen there?

My biggest threat from being shot is venturing into the city, going to establishment and have someone attempt to rob the joint. It's the Rambo amateur fk with the gun "doing something about it" that's my fear.

How often does that scenario actually occur? Yup, it's the gun owners that are paranoid though.

Gern Blansten

mickeyrat said:

hear about the CCW holder shooting at a shop lifter at a home depot in auburn hills michigan?

http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/oakland/2015/10/06/cpl-holder-opens-fire-shoplifter-home-depot/73468588/

Crazy....this will happen more and more and will likely be the catalyst for change.

Just imagine if that shoplifter had his child in the backseat and the gunner shoots the kid in the head. It is bound to happen. Of course the right will blame the shoplifter rather than the citizen vigilante.

Gern Blansten

Gern Blansten said:

mickeyrat said:

hear about the CCW holder shooting at a shop lifter at a home depot in auburn hills michigan?

http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/oakland/2015/10/06/cpl-holder-opens-fire-shoplifter-home-depot/73468588/

Crazy....this will happen more and more and will likely be the catalyst for change.

Just imagine if that shoplifter had his child in the backseat and the gunner shoots the kid in the head. It is bound to happen. Of course the right will blame the shoplifter rather than the citizen vigilante.

Edit: Imagine this scenario..in this case say someone just arrives at home depot while shoplifter is fleeing, gets out of their car and sees this lady shooting and decides to get out his own gun and take her out. Would it be justified if he thought she was a mad shooter? Technically she is committing a greater crime than the shoplifter right?

mickeyrat

Gern Blansten said:

Gern Blansten said:

mickeyrat said:

hear about the CCW holder shooting at a shop lifter at a home depot in auburn hills michigan?

http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/oakland/2015/10/06/cpl-holder-opens-fire-shoplifter-home-depot/73468588/

Crazy....this will happen more and more and will likely be the catalyst for change.

Just imagine if that shoplifter had his child in the backseat and the gunner shoots the kid in the head. It is bound to happen. Of course the right will blame the shoplifter rather than the citizen vigilante.

Edit: Imagine this scenario..in this case say someone just arrives at home depot while shoplifter is fleeing, gets out of their car and sees this lady shooting and decides to get out his own gun and take her out. Would it be justified if he thought she was a mad shooter? Technically she is committing a greater crime than the shoplifter right?

heh, the OK Corral scenario.

dudeman

The people firing in the scenarios above are responsible for every single round that they fire, just like everyone else.

mcgruff10

good article: https://www.yahoo.com/politics/guns-congress-and-murphys-law-090049362.html

dudeman

mcgruff10 said:

good article: https://www.yahoo.com/politics/guns-congress-and-murphys-law-090049362.html

I read that today. The author of the article obviously has a biased agenda but the Murphy Bill sounds good to me.

mcgruff10

dudeman said:

mcgruff10 said:

good article: https://www.yahoo.com/politics/guns-congress-and-murphys-law-090049362.html

I read that today. The author of the article obviously has a biased agenda but the Murphy Bill sounds good to me.

yeah a little bias but I wish it would pass.

Gern Blansten

dudeman said:

The people firing in the scenarios above are responsible for every single round that they fire, just like everyone else.

Correct....and we know that people make bad decisions...especially when confronted with situations that are unique.

Moral of the story is that "more guns" is bad for everyone, even those with good intentions.

dudeman

Gern Blansten said:

dudeman said:

The people firing in the scenarios above are responsible for every single round that they fire, just like everyone else.

Correct....and we know that people make bad decisions...especially when confronted with situations that are unique.

Moral of the story is that "more guns" is bad for everyone, even those with good intentions.

Who is calling for more guns? We need less guns in the hands of criminals and mentally disturbed people. I think that notion is universally accepted.

Gern Blansten

dudeman said:

Gern Blansten said:

dudeman said:

The people firing in the scenarios above are responsible for every single round that they fire, just like everyone else.

Correct....and we know that people make bad decisions...especially when confronted with situations that are unique.

Moral of the story is that "more guns" is bad for everyone, even those with good intentions.

Who is calling for more guns? We need less guns in the hands of criminals and mentally disturbed people. I think that notion is universally accepted.

Take your pick. That's the mantra whenever a shooting happens...the response from the right relates to "what if someone in that classroom had a gun?"

dudeman

Gern Blansten said:

dudeman said:

Gern Blansten said:

dudeman said:

The people firing in the scenarios above are responsible for every single round that they fire, just like everyone else.

Correct....and we know that people make bad decisions...especially when confronted with situations that are unique.

Moral of the story is that "more guns" is bad for everyone, even those with good intentions.

Who is calling for more guns? We need less guns in the hands of criminals and mentally disturbed people. I think that notion is universally accepted.

Take your pick. That's the mantra whenever a shooting happens...the response from the right relates to "what if someone in that classroom had a gun?"

While I can't speak for anyone else, when I think about the removal of "Gun Free Zones" from schools, I think the idea that a potential mass murderer might be met by armed resistance can act as a deterrent. Even if no one actually was armed. The threat of armed resistance is a powerful thing. Given the "Gun Free Zone" designation, a shooter is not likely to be stopped before causing a lot of harm. If the shooter thinks that he might be killed immediately for trying to commit a shooting rampage, he might not follow through.

Even if only one life is saved by the removal of these zones, isn't that worth it?

mcgruff10

What do you guys think about having teachers carry? Would that be a deterrent ? An of course before they carry they d need training, backgroud check, mental health check, proper certification, annual tests....

dudeman

If they prove to be capable and responsible, I have no problem with that.

PJfanwillneverleave1

mcgruff10 said:

What do you guys think about having teachers carry? Would that be a deterrent ? An of course before they carry they d need training, backgroud check, mental health check, proper certification, annual tests....

My first initial thought was "hey, that makes a lot of sense".
But before I typed that and posted I gave it a few minutes.
I think that it may draw even more shooters to schools.
They may get off on the potential of a shootout among their carnage path.

gimmesometruth27

mcgruff10 said:

What do you guys think about having teachers carry? Would that be a deterrent ? An of course before they carry they d need training, backgroud check, mental health check, proper certification, annual tests....

so you are saying teachers would need all the things that the NRA opposes?

i call bullshit, because this is trampling all over their freedom to have a gun.

just sayin.

gimmesometruth27

and then there is this.....

National Machete Association Speaks Out Against Machete-Control Legislation

http://www.theonion.com/article/national-machete-association-speaks-out-against-ma-157