America's Gun Violence

unsung

www.chicagotribune.com

rgambs

unsung said:

rgambs said:

fife said:

its funny to me that

unsung said:

Mental health issues are a very minor part of shootings, just like the use of an AR15. It is what sells newspapers though.

You want to get to the heart of the issue? What are the demographics of most shootings in Chicago? It isn't mental health.

Do you have any proof of this? I am not saying that Mental health is the sole reason for gun violence I do believe that mental health plays more than a minor part along with other issues.

He is talking about "black on black" gang violence. To be fair, it does make up a large percentage of the totals for gum homicide. Chicago isn't the center of the universe though and it doesn't represent all of america. To say mental health plays a "very minor part" is obtuse, it ignores virtually all shootings that take place outside of major cities. It also comes off somewhat racist to suggest it is mostly a demographic issue. Geographic would be more accurate, as whites and Latinos have much higher violence rates within those same problem districts. You are using NRA propaganda here Unsung. By trying to frame it as a gang only issue, you are trying to downplay all the "hicks and hillbillies" who kill for fuedin' reasons. Why? Because they represent "responsible gun owners" who use their guns for hunting and don't hurt anybody. They are the poster children for the NRA so you can't take them into account, it will bust up your image of "average joes" as "responsible gun owners" Better to lay it all at the foot of that other demographic, much more comfortable for Joe the farmer, even if he knows that his cousin Billy is in the stir for catching his wife cheating and blowing them away.

Ignore the facts, that's fine. In the meantime the disease will continue whole the symptoms grow stronger.

The fact is, gun violence takes many forms and "demographics" and you ignore all but the one kind that occurs in the city where you live.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Dancing around the question again.

Don't blame him for doing so. Just as religious fanatics cling to their looney fantasies, some gun enthusiasts cannot distinguish (or acknowledge) reality from their indoctrinated opinion. And, when challenged, snidely assert their ill-formed belief system in attack mode as a mechanism for defence.

It's exactly the same thing as believing the world is flat. And when people say it isn't, asserting, "Yes it is!" And when people ask for proof... snidely remarking, "Look outside. Does the world look round, duh!"

fife

unsung said:

www.chicagotribune.com

funny just went to the website and to my surprise there was no article talking about how mental health is a minor part of gun violence in America.

maybe you can show me an article backing up your statement that mental health plays a small role in gun violence in america

PJPOWER

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJPOWER said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

unsung said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Only gun users know what an assault rifle is and how guns work?

Only anti-gunners use the term assault rifle.


Oh and ammo isn't cheap, another myth busted.

What do pro-gunners use to describe their assault rifles?

And there has been no myth busted here: it depends on what you define as cheap. From my perspective (and likely many others' as well), bullets are ridiculously cheap. Sorry.

I guess what makes the term "assault rifle" and "military style" idiotic to anyone that knows anything about firearms is that there is a big difference between an ar-15 and the fully automatic version that is used by the military. I do not know of any military that would use an ar-15. It is a semi-automatic rifle= one trigger squeeze, one bullet. Nothing more, nothing less. It is not a machine gun. Many people hunt with them, they are particularly effective against wild boar when out on foot because of their versatility. It may seem like nothing to someone uneducated, but to someone that knows about firearms, the term and people who use the term "military style assault rifle" is mocked and void of any credit. It shows that you do not know what you are talking about when it comes to guns and makes any sensible gun owners think that only the people that are ignorant about guns are trying to push the legislation pertaining to them.

Military 'style' weapon.

In common written English language, a single quotation can be used to distinguish a word for its emphasis. In this particular usage, I chose to use a single quotation around 'style' so that it could be understood that the AR-15 was not an actual military rifle... but a rifle that has similar characteristics of one. I should have done so before, but I did not realize I was corresponding with someone who needed such a device to understand the meaning.

You don't think an 'assault' rifle differs from a traditional hunting rifle? Don't you think it's pistol grip and high capacity magazine make it a little different from, say, the .30-06 (my father's favourite hunting rifle).

I am far from ignorant of guns. I was raised by an avid hunter and fisherman who taught me everything I needed to know about guns. For many years, I spent days and nights in the interior of British Columbia's forests hunting for food we ate. For personal reasons, hunting is something neither my father or I persist in; however, I wouldn't begrudge anyone of their right to hunt themselves.

If more guns=more deaths then why haven't we seen a skyrocket in gun deaths over the past 4 years? More guns were sold over the past 4 years that any time throughout history, stores couldn't keep them on the shelves. By that logic, it's amazing any of us are still alive... And how does a pistol grip make a gun more deadly? Yes, a large magazine makes a gun hold more ammunition, but I would still say that your father's "30-06" hunting rifle is far more deadly than a 5.56x45 or .223 that most ar-15 type rifles shoot. 30-06 is merely the caliber of a rifle and shoots faster, further, and with more force than a .223 caliber. In fact, many places will not let you use a .223 to hunt deer because it is considered too small of a caliber. This is where I would like more specificity in the anti-gun croud. I've heard people say "let's ban the ammo that ar-15s use" which is the same damn ammo that any other hunting rifle uses. In fact, 30-06 was the caliber used in "assault rifles" in WW2 and there are 30-06 rifles out there that can accept just as large of magazines as ar-15s. Not all semi-auto rifles are ar-15s. Many of the popular hunting rifles, such as the Browning BAR(which also comes in the popular 30-06) is just as deadly and fires at the exact same rate (one squeeze, one shot) as an ar-15, but it does not "look scary" therefor it does not get the attention. I think the arguments do need to be made with the right terms because many people know nothing about these kinds of things and are grouping semi-automatic rifles in the same categories as military weapons because of terms like "assault rifle" and "military style". Does that make a little more sense? And how the fuck does a pistol grip effect anything? I am actually way more accurate without using a pistol grip...oh yeah, it makes it look "scary". If you want the gun owners to "find a middle ground" at least take the extra effort to prove to us that you know what you are talking about, because there are people in the media that think rubber ear plugs are bullets.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

PJPOWER said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJPOWER said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

unsung said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Only gun users know what an assault rifle is and how guns work?

Only anti-gunners use the term assault rifle.


Oh and ammo isn't cheap, another myth busted.

What do pro-gunners use to describe their assault rifles?

And there has been no myth busted here: it depends on what you define as cheap. From my perspective (and likely many others' as well), bullets are ridiculously cheap. Sorry.

I guess what makes the term "assault rifle" and "military style" idiotic to anyone that knows anything about firearms is that there is a big difference between an ar-15 and the fully automatic version that is used by the military. I do not know of any military that would use an ar-15. It is a semi-automatic rifle= one trigger squeeze, one bullet. Nothing more, nothing less. It is not a machine gun. Many people hunt with them, they are particularly effective against wild boar when out on foot because of their versatility. It may seem like nothing to someone uneducated, but to someone that knows about firearms, the term and people who use the term "military style assault rifle" is mocked and void of any credit. It shows that you do not know what you are talking about when it comes to guns and makes any sensible gun owners think that only the people that are ignorant about guns are trying to push the legislation pertaining to them.

Military 'style' weapon.

In common written English language, a single quotation can be used to distinguish a word for its emphasis. In this particular usage, I chose to use a single quotation around 'style' so that it could be understood that the AR-15 was not an actual military rifle... but a rifle that has similar characteristics of one. I should have done so before, but I did not realize I was corresponding with someone who needed such a device to understand the meaning.

You don't think an 'assault' rifle differs from a traditional hunting rifle? Don't you think it's pistol grip and high capacity magazine make it a little different from, say, the .30-06 (my father's favourite hunting rifle).

I am far from ignorant of guns. I was raised by an avid hunter and fisherman who taught me everything I needed to know about guns. For many years, I spent days and nights in the interior of British Columbia's forests hunting for food we ate. For personal reasons, hunting is something neither my father or I persist in; however, I wouldn't begrudge anyone of their right to hunt themselves.

If more guns=more deaths then why haven't we seen a skyrocket in gun deaths over the past 4 years? More guns were sold over the past 4 years that any time throughout history, stores couldn't keep them on the shelves. By that logic, it's amazing any of us are still alive... And how does a pistol grip make a gun more deadly? Yes, a large magazine makes a gun hold more ammunition, but I would still say that your father's "30-06" hunting rifle is far more deadly than a 5.56x45 or .223 that most ar-15 type rifles shoot. 30-06 is merely the caliber of a rifle and shoots faster, further, and with more force than a .223 caliber. This is where I would like more specificity in the anti-gun croud. I've heard people say "let's ban the ammo that ar-15s use" which is the same damn ammo that any other hunting rifle uses. In fact, 30-06 was the caliber used in "assault rifles" in WW2 and there are 30-06 rifles out there that can accept just as large of magazines as ar-15s. Not all semi-auto rifles are ar-15s. Many of the popular hunting rifles, such as the Browning BAR(which also comes in the popular 30-06) is just as deadly and fires at the exact same rate (one squeeze, one shot) as an ar-15, but it does not "look scary" therefor it does not get the attention. I think the arguments do need to be made with the right terms because many people know nothing about these kinds of things and are grouping semi-automatic rifles in the same categories as military weapons because of terms like "assault rifle" and "military style". Does that make a little more sense? And how the fuck does a pistol grip effect anything? I am actually way more accurate without using a pistol grip...oh yeah, it makes it look "scary".

I'm not sure what we are arguing about now?

The post you quoted was me responding to your allegation that I had no clue of what I was talking about regarding assault rifles. I noted some characteristic differences between the common hunting rifle and the assault rifle that you suggested I knew nothing about.

A pistol grip allows the shooter to hold the gun below eye level and spray bullets more effectively than the classic rifle stock. So, let's not pretend that a pistol grip makes a rifle less formidable. If pistol grips made the assault rifle less accurate with no 'upside' to speak of...militaries throughout the world would not want their rifles equipped with them.

I also understand that the assault rifle typically uses smaller ammunition than many hunting rifles, but that's hardly relevant. The smaller ammunition packs neatly into magazines allowing for more rounds and more shots. These rifles are designed for killing in closer proximity than a hunting rifle that is designed for single shots that carry longer distances to kill, say a deer 500 yards away. But ask the parents of Sandy Hook if they feel the smaller calibre bullets make any difference to flesh and bone from close quarters.

PJPOWER

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJPOWER said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJPOWER said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

unsung said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Only gun users know what an assault rifle is and how guns work?

Only anti-gunners use the term assault rifle.


Oh and ammo isn't cheap, another myth busted.

What do pro-gunners use to describe their assault rifles?

And there has been no myth busted here: it depends on what you define as cheap. From my perspective (and likely many others' as well), bullets are ridiculously cheap. Sorry.

I guess what makes the term "assault rifle" and "military style" idiotic to anyone that knows anything about firearms is that there is a big difference between an ar-15 and the fully automatic version that is used by the military. I do not know of any military that would use an ar-15. It is a semi-automatic rifle= one trigger squeeze, one bullet. Nothing more, nothing less. It is not a machine gun. Many people hunt with them, they are particularly effective against wild boar when out on foot because of their versatility. It may seem like nothing to someone uneducated, but to someone that knows about firearms, the term and people who use the term "military style assault rifle" is mocked and void of any credit. It shows that you do not know what you are talking about when it comes to guns and makes any sensible gun owners think that only the people that are ignorant about guns are trying to push the legislation pertaining to them.

Military 'style' weapon.

In common written English language, a single quotation can be used to distinguish a word for its emphasis. In this particular usage, I chose to use a single quotation around 'style' so that it could be understood that the AR-15 was not an actual military rifle... but a rifle that has similar characteristics of one. I should have done so before, but I did not realize I was corresponding with someone who needed such a device to understand the meaning.

You don't think an 'assault' rifle differs from a traditional hunting rifle? Don't you think it's pistol grip and high capacity magazine make it a little different from, say, the .30-06 (my father's favourite hunting rifle).

I am far from ignorant of guns. I was raised by an avid hunter and fisherman who taught me everything I needed to know about guns. For many years, I spent days and nights in the interior of British Columbia's forests hunting for food we ate. For personal reasons, hunting is something neither my father or I persist in; however, I wouldn't begrudge anyone of their right to hunt themselves.

If more guns=more deaths then why haven't we seen a skyrocket in gun deaths over the past 4 years? More guns were sold over the past 4 years that any time throughout history, stores couldn't keep them on the shelves. By that logic, it's amazing any of us are still alive... And how does a pistol grip make a gun more deadly? Yes, a large magazine makes a gun hold more ammunition, but I would still say that your father's "30-06" hunting rifle is far more deadly than a 5.56x45 or .223 that most ar-15 type rifles shoot. 30-06 is merely the caliber of a rifle and shoots faster, further, and with more force than a .223 caliber. This is where I would like more specificity in the anti-gun croud. I've heard people say "let's ban the ammo that ar-15s use" which is the same damn ammo that any other hunting rifle uses. In fact, 30-06 was the caliber used in "assault rifles" in WW2 and there are 30-06 rifles out there that can accept just as large of magazines as ar-15s. Not all semi-auto rifles are ar-15s. Many of the popular hunting rifles, such as the Browning BAR(which also comes in the popular 30-06) is just as deadly and fires at the exact same rate (one squeeze, one shot) as an ar-15, but it does not "look scary" therefor it does not get the attention. I think the arguments do need to be made with the right terms because many people know nothing about these kinds of things and are grouping semi-automatic rifles in the same categories as military weapons because of terms like "assault rifle" and "military style". Does that make a little more sense? And how the fuck does a pistol grip effect anything? I am actually way more accurate without using a pistol grip...oh yeah, it makes it look "scary".

I'm not sure what we are arguing about now?

The post you quoted was me responding to your allegation that I had no clue of what I was talking about regarding assault rifles. I noted some characteristic differences between the common hunting rifle and the assault rifle that you suggested I knew nothing about.

A pistol grip allows the shooter to hold the gun below eye level and spray bullets more effectively than the classic rifle stock. So, let's not pretend that a pistol grip makes a rifle less formidable. If pistol grips made the assault rifle less accurate with no 'upside' to speak of...militaries throughout the world would not want their rifles equipped with them.

I also understand that the assault rifle typically uses smaller ammunition than many hunting rifles, but that's hardly relevant. The smaller ammunition packs neatly into magazines allowing for more rounds and more shots. These rifles are designed for killing in closer proximity than a hunting rifle that is designed for single shots that carry longer distances to kill, say a deer 500 yards away. But ask the parents of Sandy Hook if they feel the smaller calibre bullets make any difference to flesh and bone from close quarters.

"Hold below eye level and spray more effectively". Wow, now I've heard everything... I thought we had already established that semi-auto rifles do not "spray bullets". And I would like to see someone accurately shoot a gun without holding it up to look through the sights. Sounds like you have watched one too many Rambo movies. You clearly do not have enough knowledge of firearms to convince any firearm owner to give theirs up...good luck to you my friend.

PJPOWER

Oops

Gern Blansten

The reason the general public doesn't need an assault rifle is the same reason why the general public doesn't need a rocket launcher.

I don't give two shits about how gun enthusiasts want to misinterpret the constitution. People will keep dying needlessly and we'll eventually have much stronger gun controls then even the liberals are asking for now. All this because of the rights obsession with making themselves feel like their penises are bigger by having assault weapons.

PJ_Soul

I just think it's time for them to completely rewrite the 2nd amendment.

PJPOWER

Gern Blansten said:

The reason the general public doesn't need an assault rifle is the same reason why the general public doesn't need a rocket launcher.

I don't give two shits about how gun enthusiasts want to misinterpret the constitution. People will keep dying needlessly and we'll eventually have much stronger gun controls then even the liberals are asking for now. All this because of the rights obsession with making themselves feel like their penises are bigger by having assault weapons.

Interestingly enough, many of my liberal friends are hunters and own some of these so called "assault rifles" as well. Again, good luck persuading any gun owners to give even a little with rhetoric like this. I do not give one shit about your misinterpretation of the 2nd amendment.
And my penis is adequately sized regardless of my choice of rifles, thank you very much, lol

callen

unsung said:

Mental health issues are a very minor part of shootings, just like the use of an AR15. It is what sells newspapers though.

You want to get to the heart of the issue? What are the demographics of most shootings in Chicago? It isn't mental health.

Poor and under educated?

PJPOWER

Damn double posts!!!

Gern Blansten

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-porch-killer-sentenced-20140903-story.html

Porch killer sentenced to 17-32 years

Gern Blansten

PJ_Soul said:

I just think it's time for them to completely rewrite the 2nd amendment.

Or just take it for what it actually says and in the time/context it was written in.

PJPOWER

Gern Blansten said:

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-porch-killer-sentenced-20140903-story.html

Porch killer sentenced to 17-32 years

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix/2014/09/03/12-news-homeowner-shoots-intruder-on-911-audio/14989333/
Home owner protects herself.
What's your point?

Gern Blansten

My point? Just pointing out America's gun violence....aptly placed under the correct thread

PJPOWER

Gern Blansten said:

My point? Just pointing out America's gun violence....aptly placed under the correct thread

Well I guess the woman did violently stop the intruder with the help of a gun in my post above.

Gern Blansten

PJPOWER said:

Gern Blansten said:

My point? Just pointing out America's gun violence....aptly placed under the correct thread

Well I guess the woman did violently stop the intruder with the help of a gun in my post above.

Yes she did....I would have shot him before he got that close to me though. No assault rifle required.

callen

PJPOWER said:

Gern Blansten said:

My point? Just pointing out America's gun violence....aptly placed under the correct thread

Well I guess the woman did violently stop the intruder with the help of a gun in my post above.

And how many innocent people were killed with guns today? Guns stolen from home owners like this woman.

More guns. Woo hoo. Shoot em up.